Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Reach Trailer Flaw
  • Subject: Halo Reach Trailer Flaw
Subject: Halo Reach Trailer Flaw

Posted by: L3GEND411
There is only one problem with this mentality. Fall of Reach isn't vague enough to consider a "different" story. There is only one battle for Reach, and it happens in some pretty specific places in the book which doesn't allow for much wiggle room for plot tangents.

There doesn't need to be "wiggle-room" for Bungie; Bungie decides what is canon. Just because Bungie said the books are considered canon, does not suddenly make the books the law: Bungie is still in charge. They're not going to go to Halo Jail for wiggling the plot.

That said, Bungie also loves to pull the "You just haven't seen it yet" card when introducing elements into the Halo universe. For all we know, there could be a military planet just like Reach on the other side of the galaxy, where the UNSC put an entirely different person than Halsey in charge of a concurrent Spartan program to Halsey's. And some of those Spartans were dispatched to a region of Reach that was not mentioned in FoR.

This is extremely unlikely, but you get my drift: Bungie can and will do whatever the hell they want with the plot to their game.


Only one problem with that, however. They won't. They know that if they do, thousands of people who actually read the books (*Glaring angrily at the people who attempt to say that they're right without having read anything*) and know the plot will cry out in anger. If Bungie changes even a character's eye color, people will make hundreds of posts about it. Imagine the reaction to an entire retcon about the Class IIs?

As I said before, just because Sierra-259 uses the word 'We', it doesn't mean that he's talking about him being a Spartan. Someone (sorry to whoever it was, can't remember) mentioned that maybe it's a squad of marines. The squad leader says who it is, and tells FLEETCOM or whoever he's talking to that the Spartans are on the ground, and that 'We', as in him and his squad, aren't going anywhere.

Now that I think about it, if two groups of Spartans went to the surface, then what if Sierra-320 is the other pelican on the Pillar of Autumn that drops Spartans off. She could be saying that she's in the hanger and ready to fly in.

  • 11.06.2009 12:06 PM PDT

Only one problem with that, however. They won't. They know that if they do, thousands of people who actually read the books (*Glaring angrily at the people who attempt to say that they're right without having read anything*) and know the plot will cry out in anger. If Bungie changes even a character's eye color, people will make hundreds of posts about it. Imagine the reaction to an entire retcon about the Class IIs?

I never mentioned retconning. The terrible plot I suggested changes nothing about the Halo universe, it only adds to it.

It is no different than the Spartan laser's now obvious presence on Reach. It was never seen or mentioned in the timeline until Halo 3, and yet there it is, years beforehand. Also the sudden complete and utter disappearance of the assault rifle in Halo 2, and the fact that not a single marine or spartan was equipped with it in New Mombasa, and then hours later they are (in ODST).

Is it believable? Not really. But is it possible? Definitely. "You just didn't see it yet."


[Edited on 11.06.2009 12:17 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 12:16 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: BTE
S-III already existed but i wouldn't count on them being in Halo Reach.

As for the 150 Spartan count. Do they actually say that their numbers went up to 150? As far as we know they could have had more numbered kids. Then they reduced the number to 150 possible candidates which later they selected the 75.

Though one problem with this is that every known Spartan-II ID number does not go past 150.

I also think that the Halo Encyclopedia identifies all the Spartan-II's, none of which are 259 or 320.

  • 11.06.2009 12:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Insane AlphaBeta
Posted by: petarded2
Sierra doesn't mean Spartan.
**FacePalm**

  • 11.06.2009 12:43 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

My canon knowledge isn't up to snuff, but didn't a lot of candidates get killed in the transformation? They couldn't started with 320+, or whatever, but only had a few survive.

  • 11.06.2009 12:48 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach Trailer Flaw

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
*Neuvostoliiton hajoaminen oli vain showta
*Saksa on löytänyt uuden tavan vallata Eurooppa ilman yhtäkään panssarivaunua

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: BTE
S-III already existed but i wouldn't count on them being in Halo Reach.

As for the 150 Spartan count. Do they actually say that their numbers went up to 150? As far as we know they could have had more numbered kids. Then they reduced the number to 150 possible candidates which later they selected the 75.

Though one problem with this is that every KNOWN
Spartan-II ID number does not go past 150.

I also think that the Halo Encyclopedia identifies all the Spartan-II's, none of which are 259 or 320.


Wow. You must be genius.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 12:55 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 12:54 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: petarded2
Sierra doesn't only mean Spartan. It could also refer to pelicans, ODST squads, etc.

Actually, Sierra only means S, so ODST and Pelicans are out. Anything that could be referred to as S is a possibility though.

And anyway, nobody ever said that the second wave of Spartan IIs were never trained. Mendez was pulled away from their training, but in Onyx it did mention he was working on a new batch of kids.

  • 11.06.2009 12:57 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach Trailer Flaw
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: Pahat Pojat
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: BTE
S-III already existed but i wouldn't count on them being in Halo Reach.

As for the 150 Spartan count. Do they actually say that their numbers went up to 150? As far as we know they could have had more numbered kids. Then they reduced the number to 150 possible candidates which later they selected the 75.

Though one problem with this is that every KNOWN
Spartan-II ID number does not go past 150.

I also think that the Halo Encyclopedia identifies all the Spartan-II's, none of which are 259 or 320.


Wow. You must be genius.


Yeah, what he said.

Posted by: longhorn10
My canon knowledge isn't up to snuff, but didn't a lot of candidates get killed in the transformation? They couldn't started with 320+, or whatever, but only had a few survive.
There were 150 candidates. Which they chose 75 (lack of funds i believe was the reason). Still just because there are 150 candidates doesn't mean that their call sign numbers would all be under 150.


Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Spartan-059 Malcolm was killed as soon as he hit the ground, along with 3 unnamed Spartans.

Sorry i cant verify the numbers of the dead spartans but i made this some time ago using the numbers given from FoR


Battle for Reach: Active Spartans 25

Blue Team: 3 Spartans (John, Linda, James)

Red Team: 22 Spartans - 1 KIA (Malcom)
- Team Alpha: 3 Spartans (Fred, Kelly, Joshua)
- Team Beta: 12 Spartans (Unkown)
- Team Gamma: 3 Spartans (Anton, Li, Grace)
- Team Delta: 3 Spartans (Will, Vinh, Isaac)

I might have skipped the whole dead spartans part so im guessing you might have to substract from the Team Beta number. Also in First Strike the number given is higher so it could be inconsistent.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 1:02 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 12:58 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: petarded2
Sierra doesn't only mean Spartan. It could also refer to pelicans, ODST squads, etc.

Actually, Sierra only means S, so ODST and Pelicans are out. Anything that could be referred to as S is a possibility though.

And anyway, nobody ever said that the second wave of Spartan IIs were never trained. Mendez was pulled away from their training, but in Onyx it did mention he was working on a new batch of kids.


Sierra could be a combat team, it doesn't have to mean a word that begins with S.
It actually DID state the the Second wave was never created. The kids Mendez was with were the SIIIs. Mendez was meant to train a second group of SIIs but that never happened.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 1:01 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 1:00 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: petarded2
Sierra doesn't only mean Spartan. It could also refer to pelicans, ODST squads, etc.

Actually, Sierra only means S, so ODST and Pelicans are out. Anything that could be referred to as S is a possibility though.

And anyway, nobody ever said that the second wave of Spartan IIs were never trained. Mendez was pulled away from their training, but in Onyx it did mention he was working on a new batch of kids.


Sierra could be a combat team, it doesn't have to mean a word that begins with S.
It actually DID state the the Second wave was never created. The kids Mendez was with were the SIIIs.

No it didnt, Kurt pulled Mendez FROM the second wave to train the SIIIs. I distinctly remember at the end of Spartan training it mentions he was working on the second wave. And in Onyx it says that when Kurt called on Mendez, Mendez actually picked someone to train the new kids in his place.

This is off memory, but I remember it so vividly. If I was home I would look up everything for you.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 1:02 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 1:02 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: petarded2
Sierra doesn't only mean Spartan. It could also refer to pelicans, ODST squads, etc.

Actually, Sierra only means S, so ODST and Pelicans are out. Anything that could be referred to as S is a possibility though.

And anyway, nobody ever said that the second wave of Spartan IIs were never trained. Mendez was pulled away from their training, but in Onyx it did mention he was working on a new batch of kids.


Sierra could be a combat team, it doesn't have to mean a word that begins with S.
It actually DID state the the Second wave was never created. The kids Mendez was with were the SIIIs.

No it didnt, Kurt pulled Mendez FROM the second wave to train the SIIIs. I distinctly remember at the end of Spartan training it mentions he was working on the second wave. And in Onyx it says that when Kurt called on Mendez, Mendez actually picked someone to train the new kids in his place.

This is off memory, but I remember it so vividly. If I was home I would look up everything for you.


Well PM later if you can about the page. I don't ever remember that Mendez asked someone to take his position while he was gone. The funds for the SII project was cut anyway and Halsey even said that the genetic group was too small.

  • 11.06.2009 1:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
No it didnt, Kurt pulled Mendez FROM the second wave to train the SIIIs. I distinctly remember at the end of Spartan training it mentions he was working on the second wave. And in Onyx it says that when Kurt called on Mendez, Mendez actually picked someone to train the new kids in his place.

This is off memory, but I remember it so vividly. If I was home I would look up everything for you.
He mentions that he was going to train a new batch of kids but he didn't. Turns out that Hasley herself had stopped the program. Then he got deployed for combat for a few years, i believe he also mentioned getting wounded twice and then finally getting called to train the S-III.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 1:10 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 1:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Pahat Pojat
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: BTE
S-III already existed but i wouldn't count on them being in Halo Reach.

As for the 150 Spartan count. Do they actually say that their numbers went up to 150? As far as we know they could have had more numbered kids. Then they reduced the number to 150 possible candidates which later they selected the 75.

Though one problem with this is that every KNOWN
Spartan-II ID number does not go past 150.

I also think that the Halo Encyclopedia identifies all the Spartan-II's, none of which are 259 or 320.


Wow. You must be genius.

Thank you. I never get compliments very often.

You must not have read the second half of my post. If the encyclopedia identifies all Spartan-II's that have been trained and all their numbers are below 150, then it is unlikely that these Sierras are spartans. Perhaps we can get confirmation on whether the encyclopedia answers this question or not?

  • 11.06.2009 1:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: P3P5I
You must not have read the second half of my post. If the encyclopedia identifies all Spartan-II's that have been trained and all their numbers are below 150, then it is unlikely that these Sierras are spartans. Perhaps we can get confirmation on whether the encyclopedia answers this question or not?
Problem with the Encyclopedia is that its edited by the same users. Sure, most of the time the articles are 100% correct since they have references but as of right now we know nothing about Sierra 259 and 320 so they shouldn't even list them under anything since there is not proof. Once Bungie releases another trailer or some information we will know for sure.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 1:36 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 1:35 PM PDT

Posted by: BTE
Problem with the Encyclopedia is that its edited by the same users. Sure, most of the time the articles are 100% correct since they have references but as of right now we know nothing about Sierra 259 and 320 so they shouldn't even list them under anything since there is not proof. Once Bungie releases another trailer or some information we will know for sure.


I believe they are talking about the published book:

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Encyclopedia-DK-Publishing/dp/0756 655498

Not Halopedia.

And I have to point out, the stigma, against wikis, is really unfounded. Information on wikis are fact checked and cited (theres even a list of all the citations at the bottom of each article) If the info is wrong it is usually removed, and information that is speculation is marked as such.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 1:42 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 1:40 PM PDT

Posted by: L3GEND411
It is no different than the Spartan laser's now obvious presence on Reach. It was never seen or mentioned in the timeline until Halo 3, and yet there it is, years beforehand.

Arou refering to the ones from Halo Wars, or from the most-likely fake leaked pictures?

  • 11.06.2009 1:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: JazzTboneist12
I believe they are talking about the published book:

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Encyclopedia-DK-Publishing/dp/0756 655498

Not Halopedia.

And I have to point out, the stigma, against wikis, is really unfounded. Information on wikis are fact checked and cited (theres even a list of all the citations at the bottom of each article) If the info is wrong it is usually removed, and information that is speculation is marked as such.
Oh, sorry about my ignorance there, didn't even know that thing existed. Maybe you might want to list all of the names and numbers from the Spartan II.

My only source is what comes from the books, and last time i checked, there was a large group of Spartans that had not been identified yet. No number or name.

  • 11.06.2009 1:45 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

in the books there had been repeated mention of plans for a second wave of spartan 2s especially in ghosts of onyx.

the guy who trained the spartan 3s seemed to think that project had been scraped, but what if that wave hadn't been scrapped. maybe there was a whole second set of spartan 2s that ONI controlled like these second wave ones were supposed to be? maybe we play as these spartans...

the halo cannon never was clear as to how many spartans there really were. nor were they clear as to how many waves of spartan 2s and 3s were trained... it could easily fit in with cannon.

  • 11.06.2009 1:55 PM PDT

Spartan III's...

=)

  • 11.06.2009 1:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: Phoenix1330
the halo cannon never was clear as to how many spartans there really were. nor were they clear as to how many waves of spartan 2s and 3s were trained... it could easily fit in with cannon.

3 waves if S-III. Wave 1 and 2 (only two survived on 2)got wiped. Most of the Spartans from the 3rd wave are at an unkown location

As for the S-II we are led to believe that there is only 1 batch, but nothing fully confirms that there wasn't another. Though we know nothing of them so im guessing their missions must have been top secret/suicide missions like the S-III.

  • 11.06.2009 1:59 PM PDT

Posted by: BTE
Oh, sorry about my ignorance there, didn't even know that thing existed. Maybe you might want to list all of the names and numbers from the Spartan II.

My only source is what comes from the books, and last time i checked, there was a large group of Spartans that had not been identified yet. No number or name.


Theres the list of all known Spartan-IIs and where they all are currently located (or if they are dead.)

  • 11.06.2009 2:01 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: petarded2
Sierra doesn't only mean Spartan. It could also refer to pelicans, ODST squads, etc.

Actually, Sierra only means S, so ODST and Pelicans are out. Anything that could be referred to as S is a possibility though.

And anyway, nobody ever said that the second wave of Spartan IIs were never trained. Mendez was pulled away from their training, but in Onyx it did mention he was working on a new batch of kids.


Sierra could be a combat team, it doesn't have to mean a word that begins with S.
It actually DID state the the Second wave was never created. The kids Mendez was with were the SIIIs.

No it didnt, Kurt pulled Mendez FROM the second wave to train the SIIIs. I distinctly remember at the end of Spartan training it mentions he was working on the second wave. And in Onyx it says that when Kurt called on Mendez, Mendez actually picked someone to train the new kids in his place.

This is off memory, but I remember it so vividly. If I was home I would look up everything for you.


Well PM later if you can about the page. I don't ever remember that Mendez asked someone to take his position while he was gone. The funds for the SII project was cut anyway and Halsey even said that the genetic group was too small.

officially cut yes, but ONI was really in control of the project, even if it was just cut as far as hasley knew doesn't mean that they actually stopped training

  • 11.06.2009 2:01 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach
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Posted by: Nedus
"This is Sierra-259. You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." Not Spartans. Right.


could've been the pelican dropping the spartans?

  • 11.06.2009 2:02 PM PDT
Subject: Halo Reach Trailer Flaw
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: JazzTboneist12
Theres the list of all known Spartan-IIs and where they all are currently located (or if they are dead.)

Bloody hell, seems i might have to buy that book.

  • 11.06.2009 2:04 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Phoenix1330
the halo cannon never was clear as to how many spartans there really were. nor were they clear as to how many waves of spartan 2s and 3s were trained... it could easily fit in with cannon.

3 waves if S-III. Wave 1 and 2 (only two survived on 2)got wiped. Most of the Spartans from the 3rd wave are at an unkown location

As for the S-II we are led to believe that there is only 1 batch, but nothing fully confirms that there wasn't another. Though we know nothing of them so im guessing their missions must have been top secret/suicide missions like the S-III.
as it never really says what happened to the second batch of SIIs other than Hasley suggested discontinuing the project. ONI likely continued is my theory, and these are batch 2.

  • 11.06.2009 2:04 PM PDT