- Toa Freak
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- Exalted Legendary Member
In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: privet caboose
Oh FFS...
THERE IS NO GOD DAMN CLASS II's!
It's been proven time and time again that the class II's simply don't exist, they were a cancelled project!
Oh, and The Spartan numbers have been off since First Strike's release. There has been more and more inconsitancy's with each peice of literature. At this point, it's safe to assume that maybe 40 spartans survived the aguementation. Other things have been retconned before.
But honestly, there is TON'S of evidence agaisnt the Class II's existance. Even Joe Staten, the man in charge of Halo 3 and ODST, said it wasn't canon. Oh, there's 40 survivors now? Where he evidence? Nowhere, that's where.
You are probably one of those sick of hear the argument and just wanna bash my idea with no evidence for yourself. The number inconsistencies you speak of were with the number of Spartans at Reach. Frank O'Connor has said these are not inconsistencies, but that the numbers will be explain in time. I'm trying to find a way to fill those numbers now.
Finally, note that I said this suggests a Spartan II Class II "or something like that".
If you have nothing constructive, don't post.
So, if I don't agree with you, it obviously means that my post wasn't constructive. I guess I'm just going to have to paste the proof of why class II's don't exist, AGAIN.
Anyways, alot of people out there believe that the 5 people in the Banner are Spartan II class II's, but in reality, they don't exist. The class II's were a cancelled project.
After the graduation of the first class of SPARTAN-IIs in 2525, Dr. Halsey began planning for the next wave of Spartans; her efforts, however, ran into problems. There were too few candidates that were in sync with her age restriction protocol and a majority of her funding was going towards MJOLNIR maintenance and construction; leaving little room for continued training efforts. By 2531, the majority of her funds had been diverted and she was forced to postpone the effort indefinitely.
This means that Halsey never got around to finishing the class II's, and Mendez was later called to Ackersons "Spartan III" project.
Spartan III's cost much less the Spartan II's, could be trained faster, and didn't use the costly MJOLNIR armor. These Spartan IIIs could be "produced" in bulk, since they didn't go through as many risky genetic augmentation processes. Since Halsey wasn't on board with this project, they are not class II's.
While we are on the Spartan III subject, I'm going to point out why it is impossible for Spartan IIIs to be a part of this game.
Reach was invaded August 30th, 2552.
All of Alpha company was killed in 2537
All of Beta Company was killed in 2545, except for Tom and Lucy, who went on to train Gamma.
Gamma company didn't receive orders to move off of Oynx until October 2552, After Reach had fell. And Even if Some of Gamma was at Reach (no clue how they would of gotten there) they have different call signs, such as "Ash - G099"
Enough with the Spartan III's.
Now, some people will say, "What about Nicole-458, she was a Class II" The Truth behind that is, Nicole is a non-canon character made up by Bungie to be put in Team Ninjas Dead or Alive 4. Team Ninja originally request Master Chief, but Bungie instead gave them Nicole.
However, the most controversial thing of all, is I love Bees.
In October 2004, Joe was asked if ILB is canon, he replied:
Joe Staten:
"The Bees would not make the cut. Those guys basically did their own thing with very little Bungie input (save for massaging and approving the initial plot-treatment). While we helped define the boundaries of their fiction, we let them do what they thought best. And I think the game turned out great."
However, In July 2006 Frank O Conner stated:
Frankie:
"We're going to have this huge collection of canon and things that we embrace as canon, like I Love Bees and stuff like that."
Yet, that same year, Joe Staten said:
Joe Staten:
We're in the process of figuring out what was canon and what was not, and ILB was part of that neutrality.
I love Bees hasn't been mentioned since then, so I believe it's safe to say that it is NOT canon, especially since it directly violates other canon, such as the time in which characters Shaw and Fujikawa were supposed to have been alive.
Now, that still leaves the question, "What about the higher number spartans, such as "259" and "320"
Now it is very true that we haven't seen a Spartan II with a call sign this high, but that doesn't mean there isn't anyway. MLG Cheewawa was right when he said that the Human controlled planets at that time meant that there was trillions of Humans and children to scan, it's possible that more than 320 children were scanned possible induction, then it was narrowed too 150, then 75.
Hell, it's possible that these "Higher Numbered" spartans were in our face the entire time.
Spartans such as James, Mike, and Cassandra have played large roles in the novels, and Halo canon, and they've never had their numbers stated. Plus, there is still 11 unnamed spartans who's numbers could be higher than 150.
Hopefully, this cleared some things up for you, and you know now why It is possible that these Spartans are part of the original group of spartans, and Not class II's, or spartan III's.Okay, that's better than some previous posts. I didn't say get out, I wanted you to post and back yourself up, like this.
On topic: To start, I never wanted to discuss the situation with Sierra's 259 and 320. I believe they are Spartans, but it's irrelevant to the topic. Now, you're post has made it clear that parts of ilovebees could be made canon, and that nothing it completely out yet. Joe Staten said that ilovebees was being processed, not that it had been completely ruled out.
Now, look at my original post again. Of the original 33 Spartans, a maximum of 21 are present, when it has been stated that there were 25 or 30 Spartans Present. Again, I am presenting the question of "where did the other 4 come from?" You have made a very impressive argument, I must admit that. But none of it answers the original question.