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This topic has moved here: Poll [44 votes]: Single shot favors skill, random spread doesn't. Justification ...
  • Poll [44 votes]: Single shot favors skill, random spread doesn't. Justification ...
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Subject: Single shot favors skill, random spread doesn't. Justification ...

Poll: Single shot favors skill, random spread doesn't. Justification ...  [closed]
Single shot favors skill over random spread:  84%
(37 Votes)
Single shot doesn't favor skill over random spread:  16%
(7 Votes)
Total Votes: 44

First off let me state I grew up on weekend LAN marathons as a kid in 2001-2004. With this said when Halo 2 came out I was disappointed with the BR because it wasn't the M6D.

I know the M6D can be too strong from time to time and cause very, very short average life spans. But, the beauty of it was it favored skill over the BR.

Why you ask? Because when I shot the bullet it went where I aimed. Not like the BR where a "triangle" of bullets surrounded where I shot. This invites a level playing field that I consider taking away from Halo:CE's steep learning curve. Of course, that also accounted for more sales, and a "fun for everyone" mentality.

In Halo 3 if two players (on Split-Screen) stand still and shoot each other with the BR aimed at the exact places specified, why should a random factor of bullets hitting and missing determine the outcome from the encounter? It shouldn't.

This is why single shot makes sense for a competitive game. Also, the Carbine is single shot but not how the M6D was. The Carbine doesn't shoot in a straight line either.

There are still problems that need to be addressed to make a perfect Halo game: Connection issues and connection exploiting. I believe dedicated servers would reduce these problems immensely.

  • 11.06.2009 3:17 PM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Who cares? Grow up. No matter what happens, the weapon will probably serve a unique or useful purpose regardless of how it works.

People are all crying over crap that isn't confirmed.

  • 11.06.2009 3:19 PM PDT

With a random spread, you prevent the Br from becoming a sniper. If only one of your bullets hit because of spread over long range because of the spread, you are only going to be doing 1/3 your normal damage. Its enough to knock a sniper out of his scope, but not kill him.

Same goes for the carbine. It may be single shot, but it needs some spread to prevent it from being overpowered.

  • 11.06.2009 3:20 PM PDT

I understand what you're saying.

My point is if you want to have a true 4-shot, 5-shot, 6-shot mid-ranged weapon, allow the player to influence the results and not a "random factor".

  • 11.06.2009 3:26 PM PDT

Posted by: Cloaked Rogue
I understand what you're saying.

My point is if you want to have a true 4-shot, 5-shot, 6-shot mid-ranged weapon, allow the player to influence the results and not a "random factor".

If you really are fighting at medium range, it shouldn't be a random factor.

  • 11.06.2009 3:27 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

One of two things needs to happen in order to regain the proper gameplay balance that Halo once had.

1) The BR needs to be made single shot, have the firing rate of a carbine, the bullet lag of the M6D and the range of at least the Halo 2 BR

2) The M6D needs to make a return

  • 11.06.2009 3:35 PM PDT

Biased poll.

Random shots take just as much skill to use as carbine-like shooting.

If carbine was more fun, people would use carbine.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 3:38 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 3:38 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: Hylebos
With a random spread, you prevent the Br from becoming a sniper. If only one of your bullets hit because of spread over long range because of the spread, you are only going to be doing 1/3 your normal damage. Its enough to knock a sniper out of his scope, but not kill him.

Same goes for the carbine. It may be single shot, but it needs some spread to prevent it from being overpowered.


That's not true at all. The Sniper has way more range, damage and not nearly enough bullet lag to even be compared to a single shot BR

  • 11.06.2009 3:38 PM PDT

You aren't supposed to use the BR or Carbine on long range. They are mid-range weapons. Snipers are used for long range and that is how it should stay. Look what happened with the BR when they changed it's accuracy from little spreading in Halo 2 to almost zero-spread in Halo 3. Suddenly it is as accurate on long range as on mid and short range, almost like a sniper... Fun? No.

  • 11.06.2009 3:41 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15
One of two things needs to happen in order to regain the proper gameplay balance that Halo once had.

1) The BR needs to be made single shot, have the firing rate of a carbine, the bullet lag of the M6D and the range of at least the Halo 2 BR

2) The M6D needs to make a return


i agree. with the m6d you would be rewarded with a kill for being more skillful, while the br would be a medium range weapon for the casual gamer.

  • 11.06.2009 3:41 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: another paradox
Biased poll.

Random shots take just as much skill to use as carbine-like shooting.

If carbine was more fun, people would use carbine.


lawl

  • 11.06.2009 3:42 PM PDT

You all make good points but let me clarify my point. Aiming, hand-eye coordination, reaction time are all what I consider skill. So yes, aiming efficiently and shooting on screen takes all three of these in to consideration hence my definition of skill.

The problem I have is when I aim on screen and shoot the bullet, it should go straight. I aimed with pin-point accuracy better than the opponent. You only are going to get this a majority of the time with single-shot. When I shoot the BR and Carbine this does not happen and now a random factor decides who's bullets hit and miss (assuming the 5 shots taken from both players are in the exact same spot and on split-screen).

So I go back to my first post and we can hopefully now see signs of a more competitive environment but the other random factor needed to be reduced is connection issues. I believe dedicated servers would be a step toward reducing this.

  • 11.06.2009 3:50 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: Cloaked Rogue
You all make good points but let me clarify my point. Aiming, hand-eye coordination, reaction time are all what I consider skill. So yes, aiming efficiently and shooting on screen takes all three of these in to consideration hence my definition of skill.

The problem I have is when I aim on screen and shoot the bullet, it should go straight. I aimed with pin-point accuracy better than the opponent. You only are going to get this a majority of the time with single-shot. When I shoot the BR and Carbine this does not happen and now a random factor decides who's bullets hit and miss (assuming the 5 shots taken from both players are in the exact same spot and on split-screen).

So I go back to my first post and we can hopefully now see signs of a more competitive environment but the other random factor needed to be reduced is connection issues. I believe dedicated servers would be a step toward reducing this.


Very good point. If I may add on to this:

In Halo 3, if two players get into a BR fight and both have a high amount of BR skill, the randomness and inconsistencies could make player A's BR not work appropriatley, even though he led all his shots correctly. Therefore, Player A just lost a BR fight. Not due to skill, but rather luck.

  • 11.06.2009 3:59 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15

Very good point. If I may add on to this:

In Halo 3, if two players get into a BR fight and both have a high amount of BR skill, the randomness and inconsistencies could make player A's BR not work appropriatley, even though he led all his shots correctly. Therefore, Player A just lost a BR fight. Not due to skill, but rather luck.


Exactly, that's where I am getting at.

  • 11.06.2009 4:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Sangheili25
You aren't supposed to use the BR or Carbine on long range. They are mid-range weapons. Snipers are used for long range and that is how it should stay. Look what happened with the BR when they changed it's accuracy from little spreading in Halo 2 to almost zero-spread in Halo 3. Suddenly it is as accurate on long range as on mid and short range, almost like a sniper... Fun? No.


The h2 br had little to no spread, h3 has more.

  • 11.06.2009 4:27 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

Single shot does favor skill over random spread. I mean, really. Who do you think has better skill? Someone who hits with single shots, or someone who just randomly sprays their BR shots?

  • 11.06.2009 4:29 PM PDT

Posted by: iTrumpet
The h2 br had little to no spread, h3 has more.
Maybe, was a while since I last played Halo 2... But anyway. The BR is still quite over powered in Halo 3.

  • 11.06.2009 4:31 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

Posted by: Sangheili25
Posted by: iTrumpet
The h2 br had little to no spread, h3 has more.
Maybe, was a while since I last played Halo 2... But anyway. The BR is still quite over powered in Halo 3.


The BR has been overpowered ever since it entered Halo. It's basically replaced all weapons except for close-range weapons like the Energy Sword. Bungie needs to water it down a bit. I'm not saying I'm not a fan of the BR, it's an awesome weapon, but it IS a bit OP.

  • 11.06.2009 4:32 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: Cloaked Rogue
I understand what you're saying.

My point is if you want to have a true 4-shot, 5-shot, 6-shot mid-ranged weapon, allow the player to influence the results and not a "random factor".
Player aim has more of an effect at the weapon's appropriate range than the spread of the BR, and the carbine to a lesser extent.

If you die during a BR duel, it probably isn't due to the spread.

These are the factors that affect you in a BR dual, in magnitude:

1. Aim
2. Strafing
3. Latency
4. Cover
5. Teammates
6. Spread

The point is that the chances of 2 players being exactly the same skill level with the BR, with equivalent evasion tactics, equal cover, and identical team behaviors meeting in a game is almost zero.

And since this is the only situation where spread will decide the outcome, I don't see the spread as an issue.

[Edited on 11.06.2009 4:37 PM PST]

  • 11.06.2009 4:35 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: Council Elite 12
Posted by: Sangheili25
Posted by: iTrumpet
The h2 br had little to no spread, h3 has more.
Maybe, was a while since I last played Halo 2... But anyway. The BR is still quite over powered in Halo 3.


The BR has been overpowered ever since it entered Halo. It's basically replaced all weapons except for close-range weapons like the Energy Sword. Bungie needs to water it down a bit. I'm not saying I'm not a fan of the BR, it's an awesome weapon, but it IS a bit OP.


In Halo 2, a Sniper, Rocket Launcher, Sword, Shotgun and dual wielding any close range weapon would overpower a BR at a certian range.

In Halo 3, almost anything can overpower a BR because the BR takes a really long time to kill someone, has a short effective range, a random spread and the occasional shot that doesn't register (not because of Live, it happens on LAN too).

  • 11.08.2009 11:50 AM PDT

Posted by: Phynixblack
Who cares? Grow up. No matter what happens, the weapon will probably serve a unique or useful purpose regardless of how it works.

People are all crying over crap that isn't confirmed.


Why are you telling him to grow up? He is simply giving his opinion on the matter. His post didn't seem as if he was crying and whinning about it at all... I don't really care whether it's burst or not but if the pictures are real and the br has twelve shots then it will for sure be single shot.

  • 11.08.2009 12:01 PM PDT
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"You must be mistaken, Reclaimer. I've met your makers, and they don't even know your name..."

Posted by: Cloaked Rogue
why should a random factor of bullets hitting and missing determine the outcome from the encounter?


Because of wind variations, gravity, barrel wear, powder misfires, double feeding, barrel bending, heat and humidity, and at longer range, the Corealis Effect.

  • 11.08.2009 12:04 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Hylebos
With a random spread, you prevent the Br from becoming a sniper. If only one of your bullets hit because of spread over long range because of the spread, you are only going to be doing 1/3 your normal damage. Its enough to knock a sniper out of his scope, but not kill him.

Same goes for the carbine. It may be single shot, but it needs some spread to prevent it from being overpowered.

The point isn't preventing it from being a sniper, you can do this with proper recoil or accuracy degradation depending on firing rate. This means that a single shot can be just as nerfed at super long ranges as a inconsistent Halo 3 BR. The problem with Halo 3's BR is that it is extremely easy to aim as it is, and getting head shots is a cakewalk for anyone with it.

Posted by: Panzeereapa
Because of wind variations, gravity, barrel wear, powder misfires, double feeding, barrel bending, heat and humidity, and at longer range, the Corealis Effect.

Even in reality, the bullets don't spread as significantly as they do in Halo. But of course, this isn't reality so neither of these arguments apply. Can you do the same kind of logic for the Shotgun?

[Edited on 11.08.2009 12:20 PM PST]

  • 11.08.2009 12:17 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: Panzeereapa
Posted by: Cloaked Rogue
why should a random factor of bullets hitting and missing determine the outcome from the encounter?


Because of wind variations, gravity, barrel wear, powder misfires, double feeding, barrel bending, heat and humidity, and at longer range, the Corealis Effect.


Halo is not a realistic game, and it should stay that way.

  • 11.11.2009 8:28 AM PDT

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