Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
  • Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

All of you are wrong. stfu.

  • 11.09.2009 6:21 PM PDT
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Jaymonster62592
It seems to me like most people in this thread have a problem with a map rather than a weapon. All the complaints are similar in that they all sound like 'I didn't get the laser first so I can't win!'

While this is true in many cases on Valhalla and even Standoff, how often can you remember getting owned by the laser on maps like High Ground or Last Resort? I haven't really played much of Sandtrap, but I remember pretty clearly how easy it was to avoid the laser.

So ask yourselves this: is your problem truly with the laser? Or is it with maps like Valhalla and Standoff that are centered around the laser? If it's the maps, then I completely agree with you.



Very good point. On High Ground there is a lot of cover and it's hard for the laser to get set up and get a good shot. On Sand Trap there are two lasers evening out the gameplay, and the vehicles respawn relatively quickly. Not to mention, there are missile pods on the map as well. High Ground doesn't produce much vehicle play, however, which is partially due to the laser. Sand Trap does use a lot of vehicles, but that's because of the fast vehicle respawn to laser respawn ratio, as well as the lasers picking off the other laser guy.

Construct also has a laser, but it's worthless there because you get out BRed before you can ever use it. Also, though Avalanche is large like Sand Trap, lasers stifle the vehicle play of one side significantly. The laser on Last Resort also makes vehicle play hard for the beach team, which is really unnecessary, as it's such a tight map they could be taken out skillfully without it.

Overall I think the laser is too easy to use for how much power it gives. The only maps it works well on without stifling vehicle play for one/both teams or making one team's vehicular arsenal too powerful are tight maps that are extremely infantry focused. The one exception to that is Sand Trap, which is so open and only contains one sniper rifle, so lasers have to shoot at each other to take the other one out for their team, wasting shots. Maps can be changed to help gameplay with the current laser, but overall this laser is too good without an appropriate tradeoff. I can't believe people are actually arguing against making something more skillful to use - especially such a powerful weapon (not you, Jay, but the people in this thread in general_

  • 11.09.2009 6:24 PM PDT

Posted by: skwucky
All of you are wrong. stfu.

Oh, you and your excellent arguement just destroyed all of us.

Run along now.

  • 11.09.2009 6:26 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Legendary Member

~Maxzy~

Posted by: skwucky
All of you are wrong. stfu.


Thank you for showing me the error in my ways.

  • 11.09.2009 6:28 PM PDT

Posted by: LethalReap
This thread is epic...

Posted by: maxzy
The reason as to why the laser is balanced on High Ground and Last Resort besides the extra cover is because these maps are more focused on infantry.

Maps such as Sandtrap or Valhalla *reuqire* you to use the laser if you want any chance at winning.

A weapon that overpowered should not be in Halo: Reach


I see what you mean. I don't know about weakening it though. It's really fun to use, but it is pretty cheap on maps like Valhalla. I say keep it in, but don't make maps that have an area like the hill that allows a team to control the map with a single weapon.

  • 11.09.2009 6:29 PM PDT

Online ID: GriffGraff15

Posted by: Methew
Forgot the Plasma Pistol Overcharge. Though it and the Power Drain need to be somewhat tactically deployed and used.

Someone else suggested that the SpLaser be like the Sniper Rifle of the anti-vehicle weapons. Two bodyshots to kill or one "headshot" in a critical area.


That's how it is with tanks, front middle with the Wraith and I don't know where the Scorpion's "Head" is because they aren't really that common. But I agree with this, as long as the first shot can flip or knock over the vehicle if it is a ground vehicle (like a near miss with the rockets)

  • 11.09.2009 6:31 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Methew
  • user homepage:

Posted by: westpointusma15
Posted by: Methew
Forgot the Plasma Pistol Overcharge. Though it and the Power Drain need to be somewhat tactically deployed and used.

Someone else suggested that the SpLaser be like the Sniper Rifle of the anti-vehicle weapons. Two bodyshots to kill or one "headshot" in a critical area.


That's how it is with tanks, front middle with the Wraith and I don't know where the Scorpion's "Head" is because they aren't really that common. But I agree with this, as long as the first shot can flip or knock over the vehicle if it is a ground vehicle (like a near miss with the rockets)

I'm pretty sure that in both cases it's the canopy where the driver sits. Wraith has an extra weak point in the back.

Wraith also has some serious weak points. Empty a full BR clip into the unarmored sides and it explodes.

  • 11.09.2009 6:35 PM PDT

We got Jackals in the courtyard!

i think that the spartan laser having no scope, maybe a SLIGHT drain on shields, and less ammo would be a good idea. Laser is wikced over powered. honestly, some people have been saying that the spartan laser guy will be bred or sniped before he can use it. in most cases that would be only if hes retarded enought to cruise around in the open with it.

in my experience e.x. Valhalla, SL guy sits at top mid with rocks in cover with BR secondary. hell keep his laser out until he sees people on radar or someone shoots him. if a vehicle or even infantry try to walk/ride out of the spawn area its gone with the 3 second charge time.

i think these should be qualities of new laser:

-less ammo or less power. (some amount of ammo (5 charges) but maybe what someone said before, 2 shot a warthog or 1 shot in a critical area) or maybe 3 charges, but it retains its power.

-longer spawn times and less spawns. Sandtrap and Sandtrap Heavy are ridiculous. sandtrap has 2 lasers. thats 10 shots. there are only like 8 vehicles on that map. also their are rockets missle pods and tripmines and gravity hammers and drainers. yikes, anti-vehicle much?

-the beam should be alot brighter, and the whine more audible. excluding laggy games, i almost never hear the whine its very faint. i also almost never see the beam. these should be more noticiable.



-if the above ideas are incorpareted i dont think this one should be, and vice versa. someone said the the SL could drain shields, that would make the SL guy alot more cautious about charging his laser. it wouldnt be you charge it for 20 seconds waiting for someone to come around a corner. would make the SL less of a primary weapon and more of a useful secondary, like the shotgun.



hows that sound?

  • 11.09.2009 6:36 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Methew
  • user homepage:

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Very good point. On High Ground there is a lot of cover and it's hard for the laser to get set up and get a good shot. On Sand Trap there are two lasers evening out the gameplay, and the vehicles respawn relatively quickly. Not to mention, there are missile pods on the map as well. High Ground doesn't produce much vehicle play, however, which is partially due to the laser. Sand Trap does use a lot of vehicles, but that's because of the fast vehicle respawn to laser respawn ratio, as well as the lasers picking off the other laser guy.

Construct also has a laser, but it's worthless there because you get out BRed before you can ever use it. Also, though Avalanche is large like Sand Trap, lasers stifle the vehicle play of one side significantly. The laser on Last Resort also makes vehicle play hard for the beach team, which is really unnecessary, as it's such a tight map they could be taken out skillfully without it.

Overall I think the laser is too easy to use for how much power it gives. The only maps it works well on without stifling vehicle play for one/both teams or making one team's vehicular arsenal too powerful are tight maps that are extremely infantry focused. The one exception to that is Sand Trap, which is so open and only contains one sniper rifle, so lasers have to shoot at each other to take the other one out for their team, wasting shots. Maps can be changed to help gameplay with the current laser, but overall this laser is too good without an appropriate tradeoff. I can't believe people are actually arguing against making something more skillful to use - especially such a powerful weapon (not you, Jay, but the people in this thread in general_

I'm interested in your opinion since you write a lot and say things that not only do I agree with but make sense.

Aside from retooling Standoff and Valhalla so that there is no neutral SpLaser how would you change the SpLaser to make it less powerful and/or more skill demanding?

[Edited on 11.09.2009 6:44 PM PST]

  • 11.09.2009 6:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Your friendly and eccentric Sangheili forum-poster. :)

I thought it was pretty fine the way it was, it's just the maps it was placed on. For example, the Rocket Launcher is on almost every single non-vehicle based map, whereas the Spartan Laser is on almost every vehicle based map. The two weapons just need a role swap, because it's much harder to hit infantry with a Spartan Laser, and it's much harder to hit vehicles with a Rocket Launcher.

  • 11.09.2009 6:50 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Legendary Member

~Maxzy~

Posted by: Methew
I'm interested in your opinion since you write a lot and say things that not only do I agree with but make sense.

Aside from retooling Standoff and Valhalla so that there is no neutral SpLaser how would you change the SpLaser to make it less powerful and/or more skill demanding?


This was how he would change it.

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
Here is my solution.

For those who can't read more that 500 words, basically, 2 shot spartan laser, a VISIBLE pre-fire laser, and a 150/180 second spawn time. Period.

The rockets should travel at a faster speed, have as much tracking ability as the needler does. But when not locked on to a vehicle, they veer off course after a distance.

  • 11.09.2009 6:52 PM PDT

Big Team Battle Multiflag/Slayer on Standoff/Valhalla/Sandtrap/Avalanche = Win

Heres one way to make the spartan laser take more skill, you have to charge shot a guy 4 times in the face to get a kill. If you shoot the body its 5 shots.

No but seriously, 5 shots is too much? I only keep my laser handy when it takes 3 people and a vehicle to kill one spartan. Its fun and all, but vehicles are incredibly cheap, if someone is tank whoring, you cant take the spartan laser away from us.

As for that one guy shooting the laser at people 1 at a time, let him be, he'll run out of ammo soon enough.

[Edited on 11.09.2009 6:53 PM PST]

  • 11.09.2009 6:53 PM PDT

I take it you're here for a reason?
.
A memorial to my H3 guy by:Do The D3w

But then people would be complaining that everyone would be using vehicles.

  • 11.09.2009 6:56 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Legendary Member

~Maxzy~

Posted by: YumBuscuitMan
Heres one way to make the spartan laser take more skill, you have to charge shot a guy 4 times in the face to get a kill. If you shoot the body its 5 shots.

No but seriously, 5 shots is too much? I only keep my laser handy when it takes 3 people and a vehicle to kill one spartan. Its fun and all, but vehicles are incredibly cheap, if someone is tank whoring, you cant take the spartan laser away from us.

As for that one guy shooting the laser at people 1 at a time, let him be, he'll run out of ammo soon enough.


You obviously did not read my OP.

I don't want to remove it, I want to balance it.

Yes he will run out of ammo, after he kills the scorpian, 2 warhogs, the sniper and the banshee.

  • 11.09.2009 6:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: aeonas
  • user homepage:

thecakeisalie

Perhaps if the ridicule was removed it would take more skill to aim the weapon? Idea I had awhile back about the laser...

  • 11.09.2009 6:58 PM PDT

Big Team Battle Multiflag/Slayer on Standoff/Valhalla/Sandtrap/Avalanche = Win

Posted by: maxzy
Posted by: YumBuscuitMan
Heres one way to make the spartan laser take more skill, you have to charge shot a guy 4 times in the face to get a kill. If you shoot the body its 5 shots.

No but seriously, 5 shots is too much? I only keep my laser handy when it takes 3 people and a vehicle to kill one spartan. Its fun and all, but vehicles are incredibly cheap, if someone is tank whoring, you cant take the spartan laser away from us.

As for that one guy shooting the laser at people 1 at a time, let him be, he'll run out of ammo soon enough.


You obviously did not read my OP.

I don't want to remove it, I want to balance it.

Yes he will run out of ammo, after he kills the scorpian, 2 warhogs, the sniper and the banshee.


I did, but its clear other people want it removed.

  • 11.09.2009 7:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

▀▄Halo2, Halo3, Forge, Slayer, Snipers, BR's...▄▀
▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀SAS Halo3▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄
SAS Halo 3

Get everything you said, only make the rockets only tracking, i.e, you can only fire after a confirmed lock-on has be acquired, it could replace the Missile pod, but make the rocket launcher a less of an anti-personal weapon and more anti-vehicular.

  • 11.09.2009 7:00 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Legendary Member

~Maxzy~

Posted by: Courageous Mike
But then people would be complaining that everyone would be using vehicles.


You don't have to use the laser to kill vehicles. Have you ever thought of using the missle pod, rocket launcher, power drain, plasma pistol or even another vehicle?

Thats why Halo 2 was so much better for vehicle combat. If the scorpian was racking up kills nobody would go look for the overpowered killing machine (Spartan Laser), they would jump in another vehilce and kill it.

  • 11.09.2009 7:01 PM PDT

¶█╬╬╬╬╬╬°¯°█|{███████████████████████████ ████████)

Ima firin' ma lazar!

  • 11.09.2009 7:08 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Legendary Member

~Maxzy~

Posted by: gEArs 0f Halo182
Ima firin' ma lazar!


Thanks for the spam.

  • 11.09.2009 7:09 PM PDT

Posted by: Domasin
Posted by: grean slime
In Soviet Russia, vehicles can last longer that 30 seconds.

In Soviet Russia, cookie win you.

Posted by: LinkLegend0
I say make it more of a weapon against people instead of vehicles.

Also, vehicles ARE balanced in Halo 3 perfectly, not underpowered at all.

i dont know bungie has had a record of making way overpowered vehicles, like the hornet (combat, not transport) and the chopper (which is mildly op, due to the vehicle splattering and high power, fast moving, semi auto rounds)

back to the splazier, some more less significant
changes, such as

4 second charge. charge loss when charging (like the plasma pistol)

more noticeable red beam, so mr. banshee up there can tell he's doomed.

louder noise for victim awareness.

less pressie targeting system, when your scoping is, you have a
dot showing exactly where the 100% accurate beam will hit every time.

less aim assist, people can just select a target and hold down the trigger and pwn all instantly. without aim assist, then targeting the enemy becomes a actual test of marksmanship.

all of these would tone down the op on the gun

  • 11.09.2009 7:20 PM PDT

Owners of the Katana
OTK: A Home for People with 1000 Gamerscore in Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST or Halo: Reach.


Halo is no longer under Bungie's care. Discuss that here.

I'm usually considered as "that one idiot that actually liked Sonic '06".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Spartan Laser. It is well balanced in terms of shot count and overall usage. Any change to it would give vehicles a definitive advantage over other players in a game. A big part of Halo may be the use of vehicles, but sometimes vehicles can be so unfair at times that you need that big time weapon against them to keep the game balanced. Not everyone even wants that much vehicle combat.

  • 11.09.2009 7:37 PM PDT

...Love, love is a blind man's game, you have to look around to know where you are...

Posted by: maxzy
Posted by: Courageous Mike
But then people would be complaining that everyone would be using vehicles.


You don't have to use the laser to kill vehicles. Have you ever thought of using the missle pod, rocket launcher, power drain, plasma pistol or even another vehicle?

Thats why Halo 2 was so much better for vehicle combat. If the scorpian was racking up kills nobody would go look for the overpowered killing machine (Spartan Laser), they would jump in another vehilce and kill it.

Vehicle combat is the best...
see, this is what the laser does...

Okay let's say you're in Sand Trap you grab a hog and start goin' on with the turret guy on the back... You get lasered because you were stupid to think you can out manuever the thing... so you grow wary...The other team is hoggin' away mowin' down your team mates, while being backed up by the laser, So, like the good team mate you are you and another guy chase the hog. now you being the excellent driver you are swerve away against his turreteer, now their sheilds are down and bam! lasered right in the face!

And you know how easy that is? Look you're standing still in one spot while you scope out the oncoming vehicle far away and bam! double kill.... now, why in such a large, obviousky vehicle oriented map is this weapon here? such an overpowered weapon... Now, this is a slayer game which is absolutely overkill for a match, BUT in objective games this is okay because It doesn't count towards a win...

  • 11.09.2009 7:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Here's how I think the Spartan Laser should function in Reach:

-Charge time increased to 4 seconds
-Battery drains, like the plasma pistol, while charging
-There should be adequate warning for players being targeted by the Spartan Laser, both on foot and in a vehicle. I think in the Halo 3 Beta, a indicator showed up on screen when you were being targeted, that should return.
-Make it more of a precision weapon; this means reducing the magnetism of it, so you absolutely have to aim well with it.




[Edited on 11.09.2009 7:55 PM PST]

  • 11.09.2009 7:54 PM PDT

Damn you 353 guilty spark! You killed the greatest stereotypical african american gun toting sergeant ever to tread upon a fictional futuristic setting!

I don't really see a problem with the spartan laser, and I never use it. I mean if there is an opponent on the other team, normally he is the easiest person to kill. Normally the guy with the spartan laser tends to stay "hidden" in one area until he can get a good shot out, and anyone who is good with a sniper rifle can pick them off pretty easily if you know where to look. Shoot him before he shoots you. Problem solved.

  • 11.09.2009 8:02 PM PDT