Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
  • Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.

reconz unite

Posted by: AshlandBlurry
I don't know what to say about all of this...you noobs just need to stop complaining about this stuff. The laser is an awesome weapon and it is not even close to overpowered...if you don't suck...i don't know how many times it has kept my team from being vehicle whored by the other team...
and the game should be about controlling certain weapons on the maps and areas, otherwise this will end up like cod and it will just be a massive amount of killing with no strat.
thank you PS. i haven't ever had cod for that reason but i'm getting MW2 because its 3RD PERSON and i love<3 3rd person games

  • 11.10.2009 1:29 PM PDT

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Allen

Posted by: The ten foot fuk
What vehicle fights are dumb and the spartan laser is a good way to piss off people who jump in vehicles for quick easy unskilled kills. My opinion ^. I also think that's why CODs done so well. while I don't think it should be taken away its annoying how people think they are good because they go around with a ghost or banshee and get kills. Anyway my opinion.


Easy Kills??

It takes skills to dodge and judgement to use a vehicle effectively, this is why i don't mind the power weapons, it makes it so you need to use skill.

  • 11.10.2009 1:54 PM PDT
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~Maxzy~

Posted by: x NinjaPotato x
This is where I got 28 Wheelmans without dieing, aiding my friend ROSSLFC94 28 kills and an untouchable.
HERE
[btw, the other team was a bit retarded, but it doesn't take anything away from my point, honestly!! xD]


It's the "Heavy" maps where they puts 100's of lasers and tanks down that wreck it, it's pointless.

If you want to use vehicles a lot, I suggest playing Squad Battles like I do, you occasionly get Valhalla Heavy but a lot of the time it's CTF, Assault or Big-Team slayer on the stock maps, and at least 9/10 the map have at least 1 warthog and usually other vehicles too like ghosts or choppers.


Thank you for proving my point on how overpowered the Spartan Laser is.

Your team got the laser first which allowed your warthog to drive around almsot free of any danger. Because of Standoff's horrible spawning you were able to spawn trap the other team making it impossible for them to get to the rocket or laser.

Halo: Reach should not be about "who can get to the spartan laser first" in order to win a game.

  • 11.10.2009 2:25 PM PDT

May the Forge be with you.

Posted by: Methew
Someone else suggested that the SpLaser be like the Sniper Rifle of the anti-vehicle weapons. Two bodyshots to kill or one "headshot" in a critical area.


The "critical" areas are already there: the hatch, and the very back of of the vehicle.

When in a Scorpion tank or a Wraith, one hit with the Laser doesn't mean an instant kill. In fact, you could survive two hits from the laser if they don't aim for the right place.

  • 11.10.2009 2:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: Madara Umezawa
You know if you want to make the game more skilled the logical choice would be to get rid of both the vehicles and laser.


Just because a vehicle exists and is powerful doesn't mean it's broken. The vehicles are very easy to take out without a laser on many maps. A warthog is easy to power drain or plasma pistol drain and then nade. The only places vehicles have excess power is on larger open maps like Sandtrap, or on maps where they make their living of spawn kills before a team can equip themselves to fight like Standoff. Vehicles in H3 are very easy to counter with normal weapons, let alone a spartan laser.

I by no means argue taking out antivehicular weapons, I just argue that they should be balanced. It's already a double kill on a warthog, and the warthog doesn't have that long of a range to kill people. You should hear them coming before they ever get within range to kill you, and you should prepare. A laser allows nearly infinite range at very little cost to the user, and very little skill necessary.

Vehicles may be relatively easy killing machines against incompetent people or on broken maps, but skill comes in tactics as well as weapon usage. Sure, there are tactics to try and counter the laser, but this one weapon on maps like Valhalla brings one dominant strategy. The "laser strategy" isn't really a strategy, it's a given. If you don't do this against a good team, you'll lose. Control the laser, your vehicles will dominate, you win.

Whereas other tactics throughout the maps have multiple counters, the only way to counter a laser strategy is hope to the Bungie gods that the team does something stupid. Otherwise you can't break it. Why? Because the laser is so powerful and easy to use, that if you step foot in a vehicle you're dead.

One thing I will agree on is that the banshee is a cheap vehicle. It's nearly impossible to counter without a laser. They need to take it out or provide more counters for air vehicles.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
How many banshee pilots can out run missle pod? A good number of them I know inclunding I.
Anyone above level 10

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
You don't have to be overly skilled to get a lot of kills before you die in the warthog. The driver just has to know not to stop and to basically know where to circle the map and what routes are less likeley to give the warthog a threat from ground forces.
I disagree. As soon as a good team spots a warthog or a few die from it, people run to get rockets, power drainer, brute shot, stickies, turrets, missile pods, and plasma pistols - if the laser is unavailable, of course. I can't tell you how many hogs I've flipped with a nade, stuck with a sticky, halted with a plasma pistol, or deshielded with a power drainer.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
So many times in a game I have seen a team come back from 10 warthog kills in a little less then a minute and a half.
I hope it wasn't the other team that came back on you, because that would suck. You guys should have picked up any of the 3 types of grenades, 3 explosive weapons, 1 energy draining weapon, 1 heavy armor reducing heavy weapon, 1 warthog or other vehicle, or 1 energy draining piece of equipment on the map and communicated a little.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
But no people like vehicles. Its fun for them despite their obvious advantage in armor, mobility, range, infinite ammo, and stoping power
They are fun and don't require a lot of aiming skill, but they are a tactical advantage, just like a lone sniper rifle on a map. I wouldn't mind the warthog's turret powered down a bit, nor would I mind the banshee toned down a lot, and the gas tank brought back to the ghost. But as I've stated, ground vehicles are relatively easy to subdue.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
the laser is fun for me in retrospect. I love the metal. I love that on a rare ocasion i can get a 2 for 1, and sometimes even get an overkill in one shot because the stupid team decided to camp very close to each other.
It is fun, but winning is always fun. Lasers seem to be quite conducive to winning, so the two go hand in hand. But I disagree that lasers are good for gameplay. You can have an antivehicular weapon in the game that evens things out but doesn't make the game ridiculous. And in fact, there should be many antivehicular weapons in the game. But not any like the laser is now.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
But thats not a fail in weapon design it is a fail on them.
Not grabbing a weapon that automatically kills everyone on the screen would be a fail on the team who didn't grab it, if such a weapon existed. That doesn't mean it makes gameplay good. But it would be fun...

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
I know one person said "bring back H2 rockets. The good drivers get away from them but the good players time it right"

Ok so whats the trade off for that? Rocket guy is timing them while chaingun guy is racking up the kills.
Similar to the missile pod now. If the chaingun is in range, it should be a fairly quick kill for the rocket, since it's instakill on contact. At worst, it's a one for one. At long distances, the rocket has the advantage, as vehicles don't have much range. It's a win/win for the rocket. Even if he doesn't kill the vehicle at range, he keeps it occupied.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
I just want instant punishment for the people who thought that they could get into something overpowered such as vehicles and not pay the price for dealing with the laser threat
That line says it all. Do you want instant punishment for those who pick up the sniper? For those who pick up the shotgun? There are effective counters for all of those things, but their counter does not provide the game with diminished gameplay. I know there are some examples, but in general...

  • 11.10.2009 3:08 PM PDT

i put it to you madara what is the difference between strategy and tactics :P

  • 11.10.2009 3:15 PM PDT
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I don't know about you guys, but in Halo 2, whoever controlled the rockets in the middle of Coag and used a Banshees got overkills(25 kills in a row without dying) like mad. It was terrible for the opposing teams, vehicles dominated and its probably why Bungie made the laser.

  • 11.10.2009 3:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: SPARTAN 860
I don't know about you guys, but in Halo 2, whoever controlled the rockets in the middle of Coag and used a Banshees got overkills(25 kills in a row without dying) like mad. It was terrible for the opposing teams, vehicles dominated and its probably why Bungie made the laser.


While I agree with your quote, I disagree with the end result. Ascension was another bad one for the banshee/rocket mix. Add to that non-regenerative weapons if you held on to them, and the game was horrible. Grab a banshee and rocks and the game was yours. But part of that, at least, was because the banshee was/is overpowered and hard to deal with, even now. Now instead of the rocks/banshee combo, it's the laser/banshee combo. What's the difference?

In my opinion, vehicle combat is significantly different from H2 in that you have MANY options to fight vehicles. Other than the banshee, which is an issue of it's own - apart from the laser issue - vehicles are relatively easy to subdue if you aren't a complete idiot (though some maps can make this somewhat difficult at times).

  • 11.10.2009 4:27 PM PDT

No.

  • 11.10.2009 4:30 PM PDT
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~Maxzy~

Posted by: Stacka30
No.


Thanks for agreeing with me.

  • 11.10.2009 10:01 PM PDT

3 shots seems like a fair deal, if you want to have it lose battery like the plasma pistol, have each shot take 30% of the battery leaving 10% to mess up with.

  • 11.10.2009 10:04 PM PDT

Posted by: Doodle
Posted by: THUNDERPENGUIN6
Posted by: AshlandBlurry
I don't know what to say about all of this...you noobs just need to stop complaining about this stuff. The laser is an awesome weapon and it is not even close to overpowered...if you don't suck...i don't know how many times it has kept my team from being vehicle whored by the other team...
and the game should be about controlling certain weapons on the maps and areas, otherwise this will end up like cod and it will just be a massive amount of killing with no strat.
thank you PS. i haven't ever had cod for that reason but i'm getting MW2 because its 3RD PERSON and i love<3 3rd person games
Get gears of war 1+2.


fix'd

  • 11.10.2009 10:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: ODST Apache
I'm sorry that I made you guys mad but I hate people that are muslim do to the fact that the quaran specifically says kill or convert the infidel. You can look it up if you want. I have a mild learning disability. And I am being serious that I have a mild learning disability. I'm in LLD classes for acedemics.

Posted by: Klumpmeister
well i think that every map needs a spartan laser!

the pit with a splaser
*mouth waters*

  • 11.10.2009 10:27 PM PDT

Posted by: AuSam
Posted by: Klumpmeister
well i think that every map needs a spartan laser!

the pit with a splaser
*mouth waters*


*Opens forge*
Amidoinitrite?

  • 11.10.2009 10:29 PM PDT

Sir Arch-Duke Ferdinand II Jr. Sr. III Phd.

i understand what you're saying but the whole reason bungie added in all those anti-vehicle weapons was because it was always whichever team had control of a vehicle that would easily win the game. there would be endless vehicle sprees that required no skill in halo 1 and 2, and they still happen in halo 3 sometimes despite all the weapons to counter them. the worst maps for that are standoff, valhalla, last resort, and especially high ground where all that stuff is still hardly enough to stop people from getting stupid ghost sprees.

laser and missile pod counter vehicles, but sniper rifle, carbine, and battle rifle counter laser and pod. this means that people in a vehicle rely more on the support of their team instead of being an unstoppable and annoying force

  • 11.10.2009 10:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: ODST Apache
I'm sorry that I made you guys mad but I hate people that are muslim do to the fact that the quaran specifically says kill or convert the infidel. You can look it up if you want. I have a mild learning disability. And I am being serious that I have a mild learning disability. I'm in LLD classes for acedemics.

Posted by: DamagedBinary
Posted by: AuSam
Posted by: Klumpmeister
well i think that every map needs a spartan laser!

the pit with a splaser
*mouth waters*


*Opens forge*
Amidoinitrite?

online
amirite

  • 11.10.2009 10:30 PM PDT

Sir Arch-Duke Ferdinand II Jr. Sr. III Phd.

by MW2 do you mean Modern Warfare 2? cuz that sure as hell isn't 3rd person

  • 11.10.2009 10:31 PM PDT

spartan laser is fine the way it is

  • 11.10.2009 10:34 PM PDT

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway.

Australia

Posted by: GeorgeBaggy
i understand what you're saying but the whole reason bungie added in all those anti-vehicle weapons was because it was always whichever team had control of a vehicle that would easily win the game. there would be endless vehicle sprees that required no skill in halo 1 and 2, and they still happen in halo 3 sometimes despite all the weapons to counter them. the worst maps for that are standoff, valhalla, last resort, and especially high ground where all that stuff is still hardly enough to stop people from getting stupid ghost sprees.

laser and missile pod counter vehicles, but sniper rifle, carbine, and battle rifle counter laser and pod. this means that people in a vehicle rely more on the support of their team instead of being an unstoppable and annoying force


Sooo true

  • 11.10.2009 11:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
Remove the laser and beef up the rockets power, w/no tracking. Fixed.

Exactly, the Halo 2 Scorpion is far more powerful than the Halo 3 one, we didn't need a Laser in Halo 2.

  • 11.10.2009 11:53 PM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: fifthderelicte
I hope it wasn't the other team that came back on you, because that would suck. You guys should have picked up any of the 3 types of grenades, 3 explosive weapons, 1 energy draining weapon, 1 heavy armor reducing heavy weapon, 1 warthog or other vehicle, or 1 energy draining piece of equipment on the map and communicated a little.


Yes it has happened with me. And yes I have been on a team who did it also. It seems to happen to me the most on standoff...the map that is considered the "warthog map" mainly this happens due to the spawning.

The warthog easily can get a lot of kills before you can regroup and use the proper nades or get a drainer.

It also doesnt help when your against the ropes and the other 2 people are playing agressive alongside the hog and battle rifleing you. By the time you get a base spawn the other team has complete control over the map

By the time you get a good spawn yes you can find yourself down by 10. I have done it myself where a warthog brought us back

I have made short work out of vehicles when i am prepared for them and once in a while i had some lucky nade tosses and fliped them. But its not always so easy to coordinate your team to stop a hog once you get into this situation

Its basically 4, foot soldiers vs a Warthog and 2 soldiers. Or even worse a banshee which is even harder to take out with nades and drainer.

I will still go to a teamwork stanpoint and say your team should control power weapons because they are power weapons. Everyone complains about the laser. But I am always fearful of a really good sniper as opposed to a laser. This is why i can't see the laser as being overpowered when I see sniper dominate way more

I hate how a lot of people are saying make it 3 shots and make it like the plasma pistol and loose power. The laser is fun because of what it is. If you nerf it that much you may as well make confetti come out of it instead of the beam. I wouldn't even want it to be in the game anymore

Despite the laser being in the game and on the same maps. Vehicles still get a lot of kills. They still dominate many games. Some people would like to do that all the time against every team.

I still say whats wrong about controlling the power weapon to take advantage of the vehicles. That is a legitamate strategy. And there will always be other things on the map to stop the laser

Like sniper, br, carbine. Most of the time a sniper will beat the laser even if the laser guy charges behind cover. I seem to do it almost all the time but the laser guy still has a chance.

Same goes for laser and vehicles. Laser beats vehicles most of the time but i have been in a warthog and banshee many times and was able to overwhelm the laser guy and kill him before he fired

I am glad the weapon is long range and kills things with its effective range. I am glad it has only a 2x scope instead of a 10x like a sniper. I am also glad that it takes time to charge and its a single beam and you cant split it like in H3 beta. Its hard to aim in CQC and weapons like the BR will kill it before it finishes charge if both players are out in the open

The weapon is good but with flaws. And its not rediculous. Someone told me a laser means 10 double kills and a i laugh. If you know someone controls rockets would you rush around the corner you know he was watching...no

So why would you get into a vehicle knowing your team doesnt have the laser. And 10 double kills would have to wait every 3 mins for the hog to spawn again and for 2 idiots to repeat the same mistake.

So I am just going to standby my belief that teamwork is needed and the control of powerweapons are important on any halo map. If you didnt do it during the game then rethink how you play the game. If you got in knowing the other team has one and get double killed then you pretty much have no common sense

I like the laser i think its helped the game a lot. It stresses the control of power weapons even more. It makes teams organize rushes for them. This translates into good teamwork.

The laser isntantly slaps people in the face who fail to understand this fundamental concept. And that getting n00b vehicle kills inst always n00b accessable. Either they are going to cry and complain or they will learn from the experience and try to use strategy instead of just jumping into the hog or banshee and going into lalala kill land






[Edited on 11.11.2009 12:31 AM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 12:30 AM PDT

i was actually thinking we should keep the spartan lazer unchanged.

  • 11.11.2009 2:07 AM PDT

Seeing as in how theres not a lot on the maps its on, and its lengthy respawn, I dont see a problem. Also, its "Anti" vehicle. Missile pod is fine, but its easily avoidable in most cases. Doesn't help that the target gets a warning. Oh, and vehicles in Halo 2 werent too balanced. Scorpian had its main gun, AND a chain gun.

  • 11.11.2009 3:40 AM PDT

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Posted by: fifthderelicte
I hope it wasn't the other team that came back on you, because that would suck. You guys should have picked up any of the 3 types of grenades, 3 explosive weapons, 1 energy draining weapon, 1 heavy armor reducing heavy weapon, 1 warthog or other vehicle, or 1 energy draining piece of equipment on the map and communicated a little.


Yes it has happened with me. And yes I have been on a team who did it also. It seems to happen to me the most on standoff...the map that is considered the "warthog map" mainly this happens due to the spawning.

The warthog easily can get a lot of kills before you can regroup and use the proper nades or get a drainer.

It also doesnt help when your against the ropes and the other 2 people are playing agressive alongside the hog and battle rifleing you. By the time you get a base spawn the other team has complete control over the map

By the time you get a good spawn yes you can find yourself down by 10. I have done it myself where a warthog brought us back

I have made short work out of vehicles when i am prepared for them and once in a while i had some lucky nade tosses and fliped them. But its not always so easy to coordinate your team to stop a hog once you get into this situation

Its basically 4, foot soldiers vs a Warthog and 2 soldiers. Or even worse a banshee which is even harder to take out with nades and drainer.

I will still go to a teamwork stanpoint and say your team should control power weapons because they are power weapons. Everyone complains about the laser. But I am always fearful of a really good sniper as opposed to a laser. This is why i can't see the laser as being overpowered when I see sniper dominate way more

I hate how a lot of people are saying make it 3 shots and make it like the plasma pistol and loose power. The laser is fun because of what it is. If you nerf it that much you may as well make confetti come out of it instead of the beam. I wouldn't even want it to be in the game anymore

Despite the laser being in the game and on the same maps. Vehicles still get a lot of kills. They still dominate many games. Some people would like to do that all the time against every team.

I still say whats wrong about controlling the power weapon to take advantage of the vehicles. That is a legitamate strategy. And there will always be other things on the map to stop the laser

Like sniper, br, carbine. Most of the time a sniper will beat the laser even if the laser guy charges behind cover. I seem to do it almost all the time but the laser guy still has a chance.

Same goes for laser and vehicles. Laser beats vehicles most of the time but i have been in a warthog and banshee many times and was able to overwhelm the laser guy and kill him before he fired

I am glad the weapon is long range and kills things with its effective range. I am glad it has only a 2x scope instead of a 10x like a sniper. I am also glad that it takes time to charge and its a single beam and you cant split it like in H3 beta. Its hard to aim in CQC and weapons like the BR will kill it before it finishes charge if both players are out in the open

The weapon is good but with flaws. And its not rediculous. Someone told me a laser means 10 double kills and a i laugh. If you know someone controls rockets would you rush around the corner you know he was watching...no

So why would you get into a vehicle knowing your team doesnt have the laser. And 10 double kills would have to wait every 3 mins for the hog to spawn again and for 2 idiots to repeat the same mistake.

So I am just going to standby my belief that teamwork is needed and the control of powerweapons are important on any halo map. If you didnt do it during the game then rethink how you play the game. If you got in knowing the other team has one and get double killed then you pretty much have no common sense

I like the laser i think its helped the game a lot. It stresses the control of power weapons even more. It makes teams organize rushes for them. This translates into good teamwork.

The laser isntantly slaps people in the face who fail to understand this fundamental concept. And that getting n00b vehicle kills inst always n00b accessable. Either they are going to cry and complain or they will learn from the experience and try to use strategy instead of just jumping into the hog or banshee and going into lalala kill land





I agree with most of your points although I personally beat the sniper most of the time with a Laser.

Anyways this is the one of the few post which actually contains some thruth,actually the Laser isn't overpowered because if you say the Laser is overpowered then the Sniper is also and do I hear people complaining about Sniper being overpowered...

No,So why cry about the Laser which when properly handled=5kills+ and when you have a sniper which can equal more kills if you are skilled a sniping... I do mean I've seen people reign supreme with a sniper... and no one says that a sniper is OP. And honestly if you know where the Laser is you automatically avoid that place don't you? me personally try to take it out but anyways...
As said by Madara Umezawa...The vehicle part,I've helped my friends get invicible's etc by driving around .... and I tell you here right now that a laser isn't needed to kill a hog and that even someone with a Laser can fail to kill a hog because even in Standoff with the other team having the Laser we managed to get more then 15Kills+ without dying if you know how to avoid it..the thing I hate the most and find the most dangerous are the Grenades/Power Draines or a stealthed person with rockets/Laser.

A laser is avoidable if you know what to look for... If I see a red line on the hog I:either go behind cover or quickly jump out of the hog which has saved my life loads of times, And when I look back at what killed me the most of the time it's got to be the Plasma Grenades, because if you have a proper team they'll make sure the laser isn't available for the other team and even if the other team manages to get the laser they try to down it as quick as possible..that brings me to another point: TEAMWORK if you fail at TEAMWORK you're doomed anyways... I've seen loads of the games where you lose because you lack cohesive attack/defense so I would say TEAMWORK is the most important. AND stop whining about the Laser being OP because even if it is OP there are lots of weapons who are OP in aswell... so before you whine about the Laser take a moment to think and compare weapons to eachother...

Ahh well...Multiplayer in Halo 3 was fine enough...hated the fact that vehicles couldn't be destroyed in Halo CE.. I just think that as for Reach you have to balance things out and look at the past.. to see what to do in the present/future!

  • 11.11.2009 4:33 AM PDT