Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
  • Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
Subject: The way to balance the Spartan Laser.
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Posted by: Crusader
the Laser isn't overpowered because if you say the Laser is overpowered then the Sniper is also and do I hear people complaining about Sniper being overpowered...
That's because the sniper doesn't typically take down two people at once. On large maps with primarily warthogs, the laser has the potential for 10 kills easily, more in objective. Furthermore, the sniper takes two shots unless you are very precise and hit in the head. The sniper has a small reticule, making aiming more difficult, and there is often another sniper on the map to counter it.

I'm not saying the laser is hopeless, but that in it's present state, it's overpowered and needs changed, not necessarily being taken out. I'm all for anti-vehicluar weapons, but not one like the laser is now. Make the reticule small, give it some disadvantage (slow the player down, lose battery, two shot hits on vehicles, etc). Yes, the banshee should be tweaked a lot, and maybe the chaingun reduced in damage, but the laser is skilless as it is.

Posted by: Crusader
No,So why cry about the Laser which when properly handled=5kills+ and when you have a sniper which can equal more kills if you are skilled a sniping... I do mean I've seen people reign supreme with a sniper... and no one says that a sniper is OP. And honestly if you know where the Laser is you automatically avoid that place don't you? me personally try to take it out but anyways...
The sniper is actually relatively difficult to use, as mentioned above. As far as game balance, you've missed the point I made several times. With the laser you promote, you actually argue against yourself. You hate vehicular combat and think it's cheap, but the laser promotes it! Yes, one side has their vehicles lost because you countered them with the laser, but now your vehicles dominate beyond what they were intended. It is exactly like H2's problem when controlling rockets and vehicles.

Posted by: Crusader
As said by Madara Umezawa...The vehicle part,I've helped my friends get invicible's etc by driving around .... and I tell you here right now that a laser isn't needed to kill a hog and that even someone with a Laser can fail to kill a hog because even in Standoff with the other team having the Laser we managed to get more then 15Kills+ without dying if you know how to avoid it..the thing I hate the most and find the most dangerous are the Grenades/Power Draines or a stealthed person with rockets/Laser.
The other team was incompetent. This can be magnified by maps that allow for vehicular spawn killing, like Standoff, but overall, vehicles dominate either because the other team has the laser, or your team is incompetent.

Posted by: Crusader
A laser is avoidable if you know what to look for... If I see a red line on the hog I:either go behind cover or quickly jump out of the hog which has saved my life loads of times, And when I look back at what killed me the most of the time it's got to be the Plasma Grenades, because if you have a proper team they'll make sure the laser isn't available for the other team and even if the other team manages to get the laser they try to down it as quick as possible..that brings me to another point: TEAMWORK if you fail at TEAMWORK you're doomed anyways... I've seen loads of the games where you lose because you lack cohesive attack/defense so I would say TEAMWORK is the most important. AND stop whining about the Laser being OP because even if it is OP there are lots of weapons who are OP in aswell... so before you whine about the Laser take a moment to think and compare weapons to eachother...
Lasers are only avoidable by not getting in a vehicle, or permanently staying behind cover until your team takes out the laser. The noise the laser makes and the red line are barely visible/audible. And most of the time the beam isn't on you until the moment of impact, so you have no options other than to avoid vehicles and hope the laser gets wasted on infantry. But by the time the laser's gone, the other team will have killed your vehicles with theirs, so you're hopeless anyway.

Posted by: Crusader
Ahh well...Multiplayer in Halo 3 was fine enough...hated the fact that vehicles couldn't be destroyed in Halo CE.. I just think that as for Reach you have to balance things out and look at the past.. to see what to do in the present/future!


I definitely think there should be counters for vehicles, but they should not look like the laser. The laser takes little/no skill for how much damage it does. It kills vehicular combat for one team easily, while magnifying it for the others. Some of the problem lies in the maps, but the problem is mostly in the laser.

Posted by: GeorgeBaggy
i understand what you're saying but the whole reason bungie added in all those anti-vehicle weapons was because it was always whichever team had control of a vehicle that would easily win the game. there would be endless vehicle sprees that required no skill in halo 1 and 2, and they still happen in halo 3 sometimes despite all the weapons to counter them. the worst maps for that are standoff, valhalla, last resort, and especially high ground where all that stuff is still hardly enough to stop people from getting stupid ghost sprees.

laser and missile pod counter vehicles, but sniper rifle, carbine, and battle rifle counter laser and pod. this means that people in a vehicle rely more on the support of their team instead of being an unstoppable and annoying force


That wasn't because vehicles were so strong and there wasn't a good enough weapon. The problem was that since rockets were the only real antivehicular weapon, and since weapons didn't regenerate when picked up, owning rocks and a vehicle was an automatic win. Rocks magnified the ownning team's vehicles and negated any of the enemy's use of vehicles...kind of like the laser does now. But now, the laser is way more powerful than locking rockets, but at least you have some hope against vehicles with other options.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 5:01 AM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 4:58 AM PDT

Yeah got to admit Laser doesn't take much skill point well taken.

EDIT: on vehicles that is :) long range lasering is still not so easy that it requires little to no skill and btw I've seen and done it myself=Snipe the gunner out of the hog and with snipe I mean, Headshot/2shot,(Hate it when they do that to me)

[Edited on 11.11.2009 5:12 AM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 5:10 AM PDT

I'm not going to read 8 pages of laser whining, so if this has been said, whatever;

It's been a very long time since the Halo 3 Beta, but I think I remember the tracking line being a lot more visible than it turned into. I also remember the tracking line doing shield damage if it touched you, so I might be mistaken on both accounts. In any event, the tracking line should be a bit easier to see, but people who hide behind cover and then laser are just doing it intelligently. If you run around out in the open with the laser you're going to get thrashed before you even take a shot.

Also if you tone that thing down to 3 shots and charging it takes up battery, then how are you going to take three shots? You could spend the entire life of the laser charging it and never pulling off a shot, because with only 3 shots I'd be careful about what I use it on to maximize efficiency. Those ideas effectively nerf the laser.

People who want it taken out clearly either can't use it or get destroyed by it constantly. The laser added a lot to Halo 3 and I have never seen the laser totally dominate the match. However if the other team has vehicles and your team doesn't, the vehicles tend to completely dominate the match. Counter measures to vehicles are very welcome. I like the laser how it is. Either the battery should be drained by charging it past the one third charged line and keep the five shots, or the visibility of the laser being armed should be increased a little bit. At the same time, the laser is just fine how it is, so meh.

I kind of liked the idea of taking off the scope on the laser. Would make things a bit more difficult to laser snipe, but at the same time the laser is most effective at a distance. Might end up being another nerf.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 5:21 AM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 5:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: Moose Spleens
I'm not going to read 8 pages of laser whining, so if this has been said, whatever;

It's been a very long time since the Halo 3 Beta, but I think I remember the tracking line being a lot more visible than it turned into. I also remember the tracking line doing shield damage if it touched you, so I might be mistaken on both accounts. In any event, the tracking line should be a bit easier to see, but people who hide behind cover and then laser are just doing it intelligently. If you run around out in the open with the laser you're going to get thrashed before you even take a shot.

People who want it taken out clearly either can't use it or get destroyed by it constantly. The laser added a lot to Halo 3 and I have never seen the laser totally dominate the match. However if the other team has vehicles and your team doesn't, the vehicles tend to completely dominate the match. Counter measures to vehicles are very welcome. I like the laser how it is. Either the battery should be drained by charging it past the one third charged line and keep the five shots, or the visibility of the laser being armed should be increased a little bit. At the same time, the laser is just fine how it is, so meh.

After playing Squad Battle all day yesterday I noticed that when I got lasered there was no warning. You just died. The intial tracking laser is very hard to spot and one hit kills with instant travel time make playing with vehicles no fun when your on the recieving end of a SpLasering.

It's in my MM History somewhere. Squad Battle on Valhalla. Lost by a fair margin. One key feature of the battle? Opposing team had a guy topping the kill meter. His ToD? Twenty Seven Laser Kills.

I love the SpLaser. But only when I'm the one handing out the red beam of death. It's not all that fun when your on the recieving end of it. I do understand that there need to be some anti-vehicles countermeasures but I don't think that the SpLaser is necessarily fine as is.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 6:11 AM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 5:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: maxzy
vehicle combat has been drastically decreased from what it was in Halo 2.
Oh darn, now we can actually have effective infantry instead of a dominant vehicle set. A better solution would be to make it have a longer spawn or to not be included in certain maps.

  • 11.11.2009 6:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Methew
Posted by: Moose Spleens
I'm not going to read 8 pages of laser whining, so if this has been said, whatever;

It's been a very long time since the Halo 3 Beta, but I think I remember the tracking line being a lot more visible than it turned into. I also remember the tracking line doing shield damage if it touched you, so I might be mistaken on both accounts. In any event, the tracking line should be a bit easier to see, but people who hide behind cover and then laser are just doing it intelligently. If you run around out in the open with the laser you're going to get thrashed before you even take a shot.

People who want it taken out clearly either can't use it or get destroyed by it constantly. The laser added a lot to Halo 3 and I have never seen the laser totally dominate the match. However if the other team has vehicles and your team doesn't, the vehicles tend to completely dominate the match. Counter measures to vehicles are very welcome. I like the laser how it is. Either the battery should be drained by charging it past the one third charged line and keep the five shots, or the visibility of the laser being armed should be increased a little bit. At the same time, the laser is just fine how it is, so meh.

After playing Squad Battle all day yesterday I noticed that when I got lasered there was no warning. You just died. The intial tracking laser is very hard to spot and one hit kills with instant travel time make playing with vehicles no fun when your on the recieving end of a SpLasering.

It's in my MM History somewhere. Squad Battle on Valhalla. Lost by a fair margin. One key feature of the battle? Opposing team had a guy topping the kill meter. His ToD? Twenty Seven Laser Kills.

I love the SpLaser. But only when I'm the one handing out the red beam of death. It's not all that fun when your on the recieving end of it. I do understand that there need to be some anti-vehicles countermeasures but I don't think that the SpLaser is necessarily fine as is.
So kill him before you get in the vehicle, genius.

  • 11.11.2009 6:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: scotsoe
So kill him before you get in the vehicle, genius.

I'm not a rock.

When I noticed that none of the five other guys on my team weren't trying to control the Laser I went to kill him and secure it.

Didn't work out that well.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 6:30 AM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 6:30 AM PDT
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~Maxzy~

Posted by: Moose Spleens
I'm not going to read 8 pages of laser whining, so if this has been said, whatever;

It's been a very long time since the Halo 3 Beta, but I think I remember the tracking line being a lot more visible than it turned into. I also remember the tracking line doing shield damage if it touched you, so I might be mistaken on both accounts. In any event, the tracking line should be a bit easier to see, but people who hide behind cover and then laser are just doing it intelligently. If you run around out in the open with the laser you're going to get thrashed before you even take a shot.

Also if you tone that thing down to 3 shots and charging it takes up battery, then how are you going to take three shots? You could spend the entire life of the laser charging it and never pulling off a shot, because with only 3 shots I'd be careful about what I use it on to maximize efficiency. Those ideas effectively nerf the laser.

People who want it taken out clearly either can't use it or get destroyed by it constantly. The laser added a lot to Halo 3 and I have never seen the laser totally dominate the match. However if the other team has vehicles and your team doesn't, the vehicles tend to completely dominate the match. Counter measures to vehicles are very welcome. I like the laser how it is. Either the battery should be drained by charging it past the one third charged line and keep the five shots, or the visibility of the laser being armed should be increased a little bit. At the same time, the laser is just fine how it is, so meh.

I kind of liked the idea of taking off the scope on the laser. Would make things a bit more difficult to laser snipe, but at the same time the laser is most effective at a distance. Might end up being another nerf.


My OP stated that I wanted either A) Reduced ammo to allow for only 3 shots or B) While charging make the laser use up battery similar to the plasma pistol. Not both.

Next time read the OP more carefully.

  • 11.11.2009 6:42 AM PDT
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~Maxzy~

Posted by: scotsoe
Posted by: maxzy
vehicle combat has been drastically decreased from what it was in Halo 2.
Oh darn, now we can actually have effective infantry instead of a dominant vehicle set. A better solution would be to make it have a longer spawn or to not be included in certain maps.


On certain maps vehicles should be dominant. Maps such as Sandtrap, Valhalla and Avalanche were designed primarily for vehicle combat. And even if the laser was removed infantry would still be useful by using the missle pods, power drainers, plasma pistols, grenades and just plain shooting the vehicles. You don't have to use a anti-vehicle weapon to kill a vehicle.

  • 11.11.2009 6:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: scotsoe
Posted by: maxzy
vehicle combat has been drastically decreased from what it was in Halo 2.
Oh darn, now we can actually have effective infantry instead of a dominant vehicle set. A better solution would be to make it have a longer spawn or to not be included in certain maps.


I don't know how many times I've pointed out that you are wrong. But nobody addresses the posts that make sense, now do they. Too many words = too much thought. But I'll just assume you didn't skim through 8 pages, which I don't blame you for.

Vehicle effectiveness is actually magnified with the presence of a laser, particularly on maps where only one laser exists. On those maps, one team may have 0 vehicular effectiveness, while the team with the laser has their effectiveness magnified because they control the laser. It's just like H2 where if you controlled the rockets, you controlled the vehicles. If you controlled the vehicles, you controlled the game. Logically, that means if you controlled the rockets, you controlled the game. Plug in laser above where you see the word rockets and you have H3.

The laser does not create a balanced game, it does not allow for a balanced way to counter vehicles. Rather, it throws off the gameplay and makes things worse. Is it a huge deal that breaks the game completely? No. I still play H3 and love it. But if you're making a new game, what's wrong with pointing out faults and addressing them? Don't label thinkers as whiners. Sometimes they are, but be discerning and filter through posts before you (not you scotsoe, but people in general in this thread and others) make a blanket statemnt.

As for your solutions, I don't think longer spawn times would do all that much, as the laser is still the laser and will decimate vehicles. However, map placement could help, as some maps are much more conducive to laser overpoweredness.

  • 11.11.2009 10:56 AM PDT

Why not replace the laser with something like the halo 1 rocket so you have to lead your shots but it still moves fast.

  • 11.11.2009 11:09 AM PDT

This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal.
All this pain is an illusion.

I personally don't have a problem with the laser, sure there were games where it was a problem, but not enough for me to want a change in how you use it. If there's anything I'd want to do to balance it, it would be either remove the scope, or reduce the amount of damage

  • 11.11.2009 11:19 AM PDT