Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: Lunge has to go.

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

I think we can all agree that aim-assist helped Halo: Combat Evolved be branded one of the best games ever because it was kinda like a combat stimulant for the analog sticks and because it was barely noticeable. Basically, it felt like "This is working!".

As Halo advanced in age and numbers, the games used a bit more aim assist, causing a few problems, but not making the game rediculously easy.

In the latast installment, ODST, heavy aim-assist didn't work because you faced giant angry mobs of aliens tightly packed and if you tried aiming for one grunt in front, it would sometimes displace your reticle to the guy in the sixth freaking row. Didn't happen often, but it wasn't cool when it did.

But back to Halo 3 for a moment.

Bungie, in an effort to make the game more accessible and at the same time relieving some net code stress for the Online Multiplayer portion of Halo 3, also added a version of aim-assist for melee: Lunge.

Lunge basically works like this: If your enemy is within a certain range from you and your reticle is red, when you press the melee button, your character is automatically alligned to the target and melee damage occurs. This means there is no room for a last second dodge, which is the melee equivalent of side-stepping while being shot at by a precision weapon (like the BR).

I can understand why Bungie did this, but I feel it really dumbs down melee combat. I know you guys wanted to emphasise on melee a little more in Halo 3, the most widely ignored part of the Three Pillars of Halo (Guns, Grenades and Melee), but it simply doesn't work on a fairness level. Some may say it fair due to aim assist, but in my opinion, if it doesn't correct your crosshair agaisnt someone side-stepping left and right, it shouldn't make your fist a face-magnet.

Now, tell me how this makes any goddamn sense: Guy jumps over other guy, does a 180 looking down, presses melee and magically moves in the air for a perfect assassination, even though he was clearly out of range were it in real life (though I doubt you could jump over a guy and do a 180, but you get it).

If it were up to me, aim assist and lunge would be off in all ranked matches at very least, if not the whole game.

But it's not to me, so if any devs read the suggestions on the Reach forum, I'd like to make an appeal to fairness here: Think about competitive play, ranked matches, LAN, and the children.

But most of all, think of me, who used 10 minutes of my life to write an elaborate letter about one feature that bugs me.

A solution to this could be to add an invisible reticle, especially for melee that would be much larger, but would actually fit the size of the weapon (which doesn't mean a custom reticle has to be made for every single gun: it can work with a "one size fits all" invisible circle). So, when you hit a guy with your whole freaking Spartan Laser, it doesn't just deal damage within the comparatively minuscule reticle; you won't miss him if it's slightly off, but the size will compensate.

"Yeah but n00bs will just melee!", everyone uses melee. Case and point: Simultaneous deaths (And don't get me started about the melee system). You know this to be true.

If Reach is your last Halo in a while, at very least give us the option to turn it off in custom games. Comon, 2 hours with an interface guy must be worth my 60 bucks.

Thanks.


Regards,

-Noccifer

  • 11.11.2009 7:49 PM PDT
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didnt read it. to long. but if lunge is taken out the sword and grav hammer(mostly sword) will just be useless cause it will do almost the same damage as melee just a bit more to kill you and im sure they will shoot at you when you are running towards them

SHortend version: if you take out lunge sword and hammer = useless sticks

[Edited on 11.11.2009 7:54 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 7:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
A real test of a man is if he is willing to scrape a sharpened razor up and down his junk just to please a woman.

Posted by: Noccifer
If Reach is your last Halo in a while, at very least give us the option to turn it off in custom games. Comon, 2 hours with an interface guy must be worth my 60 bucks.
I was about to scream "NO U FUKINGZ RETARDZ!!!!" until I read this.

If you're proposing it only as an option, then I support.

EDIT: Change your title, people who are incapable of reading will realize you only want it as an option instead of a full on change, and I guarantee you will get more support if you propose it only as an option.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 7:55 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 7:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: iEfren
didnt read it. to long. but if lunge is taken out the sword and grav hammer(mostly sword) will just be useless cause it will do almost the same damage as melee just a bit more to kill you and im sure they will shoot at you when you are running towards them

SHortend version: if you take out lunge sword and hammer = useless sticks

He's talking about the auto-aim/lunge mechanic associated with something like the AR or BR.

  • 11.11.2009 7:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
A real test of a man is if he is willing to scrape a sharpened razor up and down his junk just to please a woman.

Posted by: Methew
Posted by: iEfren
didnt read it. to long. but if lunge is taken out the sword and grav hammer(mostly sword) will just be useless cause it will do almost the same damage as melee just a bit more to kill you and im sure they will shoot at you when you are running towards them

SHortend version: if you take out lunge sword and hammer = useless sticks

He's talking about the auto-aim/lunge mechanic associated with something like the AR or BR.
He's also only proposing it only as an option in custom games.

This thread also needs a poll.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 7:56 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 7:56 PM PDT

One nation, under God I 2012 NBA Champions Miami Heat
1/20/2017 Four more years of hell
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|.==,-.~;. ____:._______ __’__’__’_ _ _\===
|................--:---:--:--‘---:,, ,,, ,,, ,,,:---: /=
`-.,.__._._,,...---:::"

One sentence is not a paragraph...

  • 11.11.2009 8:03 PM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

With correct punctuation, yes...

  • 11.11.2009 8:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Goat
Bungie, oh Bungie, oh Bungie,
Know what would really be fun, G?
I don’t wish to nag
But remake Coag,
Or die from a purple sword-lungie.

If they brought back Halo 2's melee system, I wouldn't be too upset that there's still a melee lunge. I hate that Bungie has made Melee such a powerful weapon. I understand it's part of the 3 things they want, but they ALWAYS list it last, which cause me to believe it should be the least used.

  • 11.11.2009 8:25 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: Noccifer
Bungie, in an effort to make the game more accessible and at the same time relieving some net code stress for the Online Multiplayer portion of Halo 3, also added a version of aim-assist for melee: Lunge.
Somebody here didn't play Halo 2.

  • 11.11.2009 8:44 PM PDT

I just wasted a few seconds of your life and you're never getting them back!

I think the Energy Sword is fine. In Energy Sword duels, there are three things you can do- lunge, melee or feint.

Lunge>Feint
Feint>Melee
Melee>Lunge

Feinting involves moving into the enemy's lunge range but not their melee range, expecting them to melee, which you then promptly counter with a nice lunge kill.

Meleeing involves mashing the melee button, which has shorter range but more speed and less cooldown. Meleeing beats Lunging.

Lunge beats Feint for obvious reasons. They expect you to melee, you don't, they die. Simple.

Also, anyone who's decent with an assault rifle can beat a non camping energy sworder by moving back, unless your back hits a wall, which i describe as a "Oh -blam!-" moment.

[Edited on 11.11.2009 10:08 PM PST]

  • 11.11.2009 10:06 PM PDT

If they removed Aim Assist Halo 3 would possibly be the worst game ever.

  • 11.12.2009 12:26 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: Dizypher
If they removed Aim Assist Halo 3 would possibly be the worst game ever.


Translated to English: Remove aim assist? No way, people would have to learn how to play a real FPS.




I support OP. I'm sick of feeling like I have training wheels on.

  • 11.12.2009 12:54 AM PDT

Posted by: Phynixblack
Posted by: Dizypher
If they removed Aim Assist Halo 3 would possibly be the worst game ever.


Translated to English: Remove aim assist? No way, people would have to learn how to play a real FPS.




I support OP. I'm sick of feeling like I have training wheels on.


Go play Call of Duty then.

  • 11.12.2009 1:02 AM PDT

There is more aim assist for Halo 3 in terms of melees. Halo 2 just had a longer lunge. Still, in Halo 2 people quite often lunged past you and the sword could be dodged. In Halo 3, if you lunge, you are pretty much always going to make contact.

  • 11.12.2009 1:18 AM PDT

Freedom has two parts: potential and resolution; as metaphors have two parts : form and interpretation; of course, the two are intertwined. Metaphor lines the road to freedom, as symbols and words are the bricks and mortar of meaning. Freedom being the briocoleus, the mason.
***END MESSAGE***
***JUMP ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***

I suggest removing auto aim entirely, although keeping lunge for melee weapons as to not defeat their purpose.

  • 11.12.2009 1:52 AM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

Just an FYI, I never said anything about removing "Sword Lunge". Which technically does not fit in this category anyway, because you press a trigger.

Standard Lunge for all weapons' melee capabilities is what I hate here.

Also, why the hell does the Grav Hammer have a semi-lunge in it's main attack?

  • 11.12.2009 7:26 AM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: Noccifer
Bungie, in an effort to make the game more accessible and at the same time relieving some net code stress for the Online Multiplayer portion of Halo 3, also added a version of aim-assist for melee: Lunge.
Somebody here didn't play Halo 2.


TBH, I really didn't notice it in Halo 2 while playing MP. I did not have Live at the time either.

  • 11.12.2009 7:28 AM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

I'm gonna be honest, you complaining about the auto-aim in ODST throwing you're aim off from one Grunt to a Grunt that's behind him really invalidates any auto-aim related complaints that you might have in my mind. It just sounds like you're complaining because you suck.

Now let me explain some things to you: the game is not realistic, it restricts you horrendously compared to your options in reality. To compensate the game adds somethings that are clearly not possible when viewed literally but are effectively analogous to possible activities. True a person cannot redirect themselves in midair, but a person can jump at different heights and contort in order to aim themselves.

Now for realistic melee combat, it's not like in those martial arts movies starring Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan etc. People punch, kick, block, and grapple. There is no dodging someone who is good at beating trained soldiers into submission. You just have to hope you can beat him into submission first. The fast and practically no-miss flavor of melee combat seen in Halo 2/3 is really the best approximation of real unarmed combat for the series.

Furthermore, melee combat in Halo CE was very lame. The only thing good about it was the occasionally awesome melee animations.

  • 11.12.2009 7:52 AM PDT

I KNOW!

  • 11.12.2009 7:57 AM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

Eldritch, I just want my punch not to be magnetic to faces. That's it.

  • 11.12.2009 8:28 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: Noccifer
Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: Noccifer
Bungie, in an effort to make the game more accessible and at the same time relieving some net code stress for the Online Multiplayer portion of Halo 3, also added a version of aim-assist for melee: Lunge.
Somebody here didn't play Halo 2.


TBH, I really didn't notice it in Halo 2 while playing MP. I did not have Live at the time either.
Well then heres a fact, Halo 2 had more bullet/lunge magnetism than Halo 3.

[Edited on 11.12.2009 8:36 AM PST]

  • 11.12.2009 8:35 AM PDT

Also known as Entropy91
Black Water Ops representative.
See you on the battlefield.

I think Halo 2 had it about right. The only really noticeable lunge was the sword, which would have been perfect if it didn't have infinite charge.

Halo 3 is ridiculous in the lunge department. I can understand a forward lunge, or one going down, but a reverse-up-to-the-right lunge? Seriously? That doesn't seem physically possible, even for a genetically modified, computer assisted super soldier



  • 11.12.2009 8:59 AM PDT

I agree with this but also have some points to add.
I've noticed and tested this in custom games with my friend(LAN so there's no lag)and it seems even if you're crosshair is not on the person but there next to you, you'll still dash in there direction and hit them instead of missing like you should. Another example is when you are jumping over someone and they don't have the sensitivity up enough to look up that fast but yet they still jump up and melee you and it counts as an assassination for hitting the bottom of the foot or not hitting you at all. That really needs to be fixed... I mean you should be able to dodge these things.

[Edited on 11.12.2009 9:20 AM PST]

  • 11.12.2009 9:18 AM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

Agreed.

  • 11.12.2009 10:48 AM PDT

Get rid of the dual beatdown death thingy.

It's so annoying and obnoxious that no matter who melees first you both die.

Just make it like it was in Halo 2, or Halo CE where it was difficult to melee people.

I hate how Bungie fixes things that aren't broken.

  • 11.12.2009 11:51 AM PDT

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