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Subject: Will Reach have a new ranking system?
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I absolutely hate the ranking system that Halo 3 uses. I really don't care about an ultra-fair match. If it's in the ball-park I'm fine with it. I especially dislike how random it seems to us, since we can't see its inner workings to get an explanation.

What I would like to see in Reach is something more like Call of Duty. I wouldn't mind a direct copy of it, but I know that Bungie won't do that. Instead I was thinking something like Firefight's scoring system. For every kill you get points, and then extra for streaks, and then more for style. Maybe the military rank could be based like this if they want to keep their Trueskill rank.

I just can't see me buying Reach if it uses Halo 3's ranking system. As it is, I hesitate to play ranked because I hate being brought down for my teammates or if I have a bad day. I think the individual should be ranked and not the team. I think the game would benefit from this because then a player can go in, have fun, and his teammates won't have to get ticked because of his style of play. So many aspects of the game are forgotten about because people are afraid it'll cost them the game.

How likely are you to pick up a different weapon if you are worried about your rank dropping every time you get a kill? How likely are you going to use a mongoose? When every is forced to play good or loose the game, the game loses some of it's fun. I love sitting on the back of a mongoose or the sideseat of a warthog, but in ranked it just becomes a free double or a free triple.

I'm asking you, Bungie, please change you ranking system for Reach.

  • 11.14.2009 5:32 PM PDT

Corn, Oil, and Wine... We need more wine...

I hope it doesn't have one at all, it bring out the -blam!-es in Match Making.

  • 11.14.2009 5:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Cranium Crater
I absolutely hate the ranking system that Halo 3 uses. I really don't care about an ultra-fair match. If it's in the ball-park I'm fine with it. I especially dislike how random it seems to us, since we can't see its inner workings to get an explanation.

What I would like to see in Reach is something more like Call of Duty. I wouldn't mind a direct copy of it, but I know that Bungie won't do that. Instead I was thinking something like Firefight's scoring system. For every kill you get points, and then extra for streaks, and then more for style. Maybe the military rank could be based like this if they want to keep their Trueskill rank.

I just can't see me buying Reach if it uses Halo 3's ranking system. As it is, I hesitate to play ranked because I hate being brought down for my teammates or if I have a bad day. I think the individual should be ranked and not the team. I think the game would benefit from this because then a player can go in, have fun, and his teammates won't have to get ticked because of his style of play. So many aspects of the game are forgotten about because people are afraid it'll cost them the game.

How likely are you to pick up a different weapon if you are worried about your rank dropping every time you get a kill? How likely are you going to use a mongoose? When every is forced to play good or loose the game, the game loses some of it's fun. I love sitting on the back of a mongoose or the sideseat of a warthog, but in ranked it just becomes a free double or a free triple.

I'm asking you, Bungie, please change you ranking system for Reach.
Call of duty has levels, but not skill levels.

Call of duty doesn't have fair matches at all, it doesn't take into account your skill in the least bit. How many points your rack up is for a function of time spent playing the game rather than actual skill.

Basically, it's not a skill ranking system.


The ranking system in CoD is similar to the playlist rankings, where you gain rank when you get more experience. Maybe they can give points to give you a higher playlist rank.

[Edited on 11.14.2009 5:40 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2009 5:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: in the Krutch
Call of duty has levels, but not skill levels.

Call of duty doesn't have fair matches at all, it doesn't take into account your skill in the least bit. How many points your rack up is for a function of time spent playing the game rather than actual skill.

Basically, it's not a skill ranking system.


The ranking system in CoD is similar to the playlist rankings, where you gain rank when you get more experience. Maybe they can give points to give you a higher playlist rank.

I know, but their system is much more rewarding. If Bungie combined Trueskill and a Call of Duty ranking system, it would be great. It could match you similarly to how it does now, just keep that rank invisible and have our visible rank be based off of our kills, streaks, and style points.

  • 11.14.2009 5:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Cranium Crater
Posted by: in the Krutch
Call of duty has levels, but not skill levels.

Call of duty doesn't have fair matches at all, it doesn't take into account your skill in the least bit. How many points your rack up is for a function of time spent playing the game rather than actual skill.

Basically, it's not a skill ranking system.


The ranking system in CoD is similar to the playlist rankings, where you gain rank when you get more experience. Maybe they can give points to give you a higher playlist rank.

I know, but their system is much more rewarding. If Bungie combined Trueskill and a Call of Duty ranking system, it would be great. It could match you similarly to how it does now, just keep that rank invisible and have our visible rank be based off of our kills, streaks, and style points.
I think a lot of people enjoy the challenge of trying to reach skill level 50 in each playlist. Removing that would take that away.

It sounds like you want the ranking system to be similar to social, but with more exp rewards in the game, aside from simply winning a game.

  • 11.14.2009 5:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: in the Krutch
I think a lot of people enjoy the challenge of trying to reach skill level 50 in each playlist. Removing that would take that away.

It sounds like you want the ranking system to be similar to social, but with more exp rewards in the game, aside from simply winning a game.

I like to getting to high levels in the current system, it can be fun. I'm not entirely against it staying, I just would rather have it not be our rank. Maybe if they put it in your service record, or even next to your name. Either way, I'd like the rank to be based off of something other than just wins and loses.

I guess it could be seen as similar to social, all I think it needs is to be more rewarding. That way there is more instant satisfaction, I love seeing the little +200 come up for every kill in firefight. I think it would be great to incorporate that into Matchmaking.

  • 11.14.2009 6:01 PM PDT

Every time you sneeze into an open Febreze portal the boner-tree drive shaft will spin into ketchup. But it doesn't stop at the number two pizza bell, not even close. It continues into the seventy eight minute long pile of green, sobbing cheese trains with no more butter, but more like the steak owed the tin cans some lovin'.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
As it is, I hesitate to play ranked because I hate being brought down for my teammates or if I have a bad day.
This is the major problem. It's YOUR rank. It should reflect YOU, not you and three other people.

  • 11.14.2009 6:07 PM PDT

Posted by: Cranium Crater
Posted by: in the Krutch
I think a lot of people enjoy the challenge of trying to reach skill level 50 in each playlist. Removing that would take that away.

It sounds like you want the ranking system to be similar to social, but with more exp rewards in the game, aside from simply winning a game.

I like to getting to high levels in the current system, it can be fun. I'm not entirely against it staying, I just would rather have it not be our rank. Maybe if they put it in your service record, or even next to your name. Either way, I'd like the rank to be based off of something other than just wins and loses.

I guess it could be seen as similar to social, all I think it needs is to be more rewarding. That way there is more instant satisfaction, I love seeing the little +200 come up for every kill in firefight. I think it would be great to incorporate that into Matchmaking.
Well, exp is part of our rank now, not just our true skill.

You just want in-game actions to add to our experience? Sounds kind of arcadey, though, if you know what I mean.

This is the major problem. It's YOUR rank. It should reflect YOU, not you and three other people.

How would Bungie evaluate individual skill when the only stat they have to go by is how you perform as a team?

[Edited on 11.14.2009 6:10 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2009 6:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: in the Krutch
Well, exp is part of our rank now, not just our true skill.

You just want in-game actions to add to our experience? Sounds kind of arcadey, though, if you know what I mean.

EXP is hardly part of our rank. We have to completely separate ranks that don't effect each other. I'd like to have one that combined the two we have now. I understand the need to have a trueskill rank because the games should be fair. I just don't like that we only get ranked by that.

I like what you said before, social with more rewards. I think that that's a good way of ranking Matchmaking. In your service record they could show your Trueskill. Or they could use the military ranks they had, where you have to rank up to a certain level to get to the next rank. That way you can see your rank but it is still influenced by other means. So it could be to get to rank 30 you could either get so much exp or rank up in Trueskill.

This is the major problem. It's YOUR rank. It should reflect YOU, not you and three other people.

How would Bungie evaluate individual skill when the only stat they have to go by is how you perform as a team?
They could measure your individual performance. Look at the post-game report. A whole bunch of that data could be used to decide your rank rather than whether or not you won the game.

  • 11.14.2009 6:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Cranium Crater
Posted by: in the Krutch
Well, exp is part of our rank now, not just our true skill.

You just want in-game actions to add to our experience? Sounds kind of arcadey, though, if you know what I mean.

EXP is hardly part of our rank. We have to completely separate ranks that don't effect each other. I'd like to have one that combined the two we have now. I understand the need to have a trueskill rank because the games should be fair. I just don't like that we only get ranked by that.

I like what you said before, social with more rewards. I think that that's a good way of ranking Matchmaking. In your service record they could show your Trueskill. Or they could use the military ranks they had, where you have to rank up to a certain level to get to the next rank. That way you can see your rank but it is still influenced by other means. So it could be to get to rank 30 you could either get so much exp or rank up in Trueskill.

This is the major problem. It's YOUR rank. It should reflect YOU, not you and three other people.

How would Bungie evaluate individual skill when the only stat they have to go by is how you perform as a team?
They could measure your individual performance. Look at the post-game report. A whole bunch of that data could be used to decide your rank rather than whether or not you won the game.
So these ranks that take into account trueskill and exp wouldn't be used for matchmaking? If they're not used for matchmaking, why include trueskill at all? It seems like you would still have two ranks: the trueskill and the exp + trueskill.

Since Halo traditionally hasn't given you added perks or upgrades, I don't know how rewarding it would be without rewards, such as perks and new guns like in Call of duty.


I think that the way it is now is fine. A lot of times, the most valuable players are unseen heroes, such as support players. If rankings weren't team based, it would decrease the emphasis on team play and would encourage kill stealing. Also, if you went in with a team of 4 and only the players who are getting the best stats are rewarded, it would be very frustrating.

A win in a team game represents a combination of team skill and individual skill. I think the only way to evaluate purely individual skill would be in lone wolves.

  • 11.14.2009 6:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cranium Crater
I really don't care about an ultra-fair match.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
If [the match] is in the ball-park I'm fine with it.

What? You don't care about a fair match, but you want the match to be somewhat close? That's exactly how it is now. You can play anyone within ten levels either way, which adds up to a twenty level range you can play. If you're a 30, you can play anyone from a 20-40.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
What I would like to see in Reach is something more like Call of Duty. I wouldn't mind a direct copy of it, but I know that Bungie won't do that.

Thank goodness. Call of duty isn't really a ranking system. It's m ore like an experience system. It does nothing to sort people out by skill, but just shows the achievement of time played. This might make you feel good, but it does nothing to promote good gameplay.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
Instead I was thinking something like Firefight's scoring system. For every kill you get points, and then extra for streaks, and then more for style. Maybe the military rank could be based like this if they want to keep their Trueskill rank.
I wouldn't mind a system that allows for rewards for personal skill. I think this is a good idea to do this for the military rank part, but not for skill. The skill should be very accurate and should have a large skill gap to promote fair and competitive play.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
I just can't see me buying Reach if it uses Halo 3's ranking system. As it is, I hesitate to play ranked because I hate being brought down for my teammates or if I have a bad day.
One bad day doesn't do anything. If you are consistently a 30, you will be a 30. If you go back down to a 29 and then start playing the next day like you normally do, you'll move back up. Rank is to sort people for fair play, not to bolster your ego because your mommy told you you're the best at everything.

Posted by: headcrab53
Posted by: Cranium Crater
As it is, I hesitate to play ranked because I hate being brought down for my teammates or if I have a bad day.
This is the major problem. It's YOUR rank. It should reflect YOU, not you and three other people.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
I think the individual should be ranked and not the team. I think the game would benefit from this because then a player can go in, have fun, and his teammates won't have to get ticked because of his style of play.
For lonewolves, ok. For team slayer, you can get 20 kills and no deaths and still suck for your team. If you just sit in the back and snipe, finishing all your team's kills, letting everyone else die instead of moving with them, communicating, and team firing, you're worthless. So you got a lot of kills, who cares? If it's a team game you need to play as a team. Individual stats do not necessarily prove you contributed in that gametype.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
How likely are you to pick up a different weapon if you are worried about your rank dropping every time you get a kill? How likely are you going to use a mongoose? When every is forced to play good or loose the game, the game loses some of it's fun. I love sitting on the back of a mongoose or the sideseat of a warthog, but in ranked it just becomes a free double or a free triple.
Social? Customs? Campaign? Forge? Why do people want to take away rank, which only exists in one of the many options. People don't refrain from picking up the SMG because something is ranked, they do so because it sucks. It sucks in social, in ranked, in forge, and in customs. It's purposeless. What's the point? It has no functionality in Halo.


[Edited on 11.14.2009 8:30 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2009 8:23 PM PDT

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There really is nothing wrong with TrueSkill.

  • 11.14.2009 8:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: fifthderelicte
What I'm saying is that the ranking system shouldn't be entirely based off of Trueskill. Instead it should be based off of a combination of Trueskill and personal performance. Imagine this:

To get to Level 10, you can either get to Trueskill level ten or get enough experience (through wins, kills, and everything I've mentioned).

Having something like this still gives you a fair match, just like Trueskill does, but you have a chance to reach the highest rank even if you have trouble with teammates, lag, or any other issue. Too make it harder to get to level 50, you could lose some EXP per death. That way you can't just get to a fifty by getting kills and exp.

Having a second way of ranking up is a little more enjoyable. You still need skill to get up to the high levels, but now those people who are worried about their ranks can go in, have fun, and come up at a potentially higher level. Or at least with a way of getting back to their rank.

Posted by: italian templar
There really is nothing wrong with TrueSkill.


I agree. The system works for providing you with a reliable measure of your skill. I just think a system like the one I've been describing might work better.

[Edited on 11.14.2009 9:14 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2009 9:13 PM PDT

I think they should implement a new ranking system, to keep things fresh ya know?

  • 11.14.2009 10:13 PM PDT

God bless you. John 3:16 "God so loved the world he gave his only son. Who ever believes in him shall not parish, but have eternal life."

I agree. For Halo 3, you should get 1 XP for every kill you get.

  • 11.14.2009 10:15 PM PDT

Keep BUNGLE away from matchmaking, away from these forums, and overall away from this game.

I actually want Reach to have COD's ranking system, everything will go smooth, the rank bashing will pretty much stop also.

  • 11.14.2009 10:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cranium Crater
Posted by: fifthderelicte
What I'm saying is that the ranking system shouldn't be entirely based off of Trueskill. Instead it should be based off of a combination of Trueskill and personal performance. Imagine this:

To get to Level 10, you can either get to Trueskill level ten or get enough experience (through wins, kills, and everything I've mentioned).

Having something like this still gives you a fair match, just like Trueskill does, but you have a chance to reach the highest rank even if you have trouble with teammates, lag, or any other issue. Too make it harder to get to level 50, you could lose some EXP per death. That way you can't just get to a fifty by getting kills and exp.

Having a second way of ranking up is a little more enjoyable. You still need skill to get up to the high levels, but now those people who are worried about their ranks can go in, have fun, and come up at a potentially higher level. Or at least with a way of getting back to their rank.
I don't think that would be bad for the military ranks. In fact, I think that would be really cool. However, I don't particularly agree that it should be used for skill ranking, unless you added that second part in your reply. If you can get up to a 50 just by accumulating kills, double kills, assists, etc over time, everyone could get to a 50 eventually. If you add in things like deaths, quitting and and leaving your team hanging (in team games), coming in with a negative k/d ratio, coming in last on your team, etc - that would ensure that only better people made it to the top.

So if you incorporate that, I think it's actually a really fun way to set goals for yourself in the game. The only problem with this is people trying to pad their stats and get up in rank. People already try to pad stats, can you imagine if the stats actually meant something? You'd have a team of people trying to steal kills instead of work together, sit back and let the rest of the team do the work while they pick people off, etc. It's too easy to manipulate on the way up and the way down. On top of that, it has the potential to kill gameplay.

Like I said, as a secondary system, or even as one component of the primary system, it would be cool. I just don't know how I feel about it being the primary system. When you play a team game, you're supposed to help your team win. It's not just about you doing well, but about working with the team, communicating, etc. Sometimes your team just sucks and you lose, but there are times where you just fail your team by being a lone wolf. Win as a team, lose as a team.

  • 11.15.2009 6:59 AM PDT

Meow?

I agree, there should be a new ranking system for Reach.

  • 11.15.2009 7:12 AM PDT

If I were bad at this game, I would probably want a ranking system like CoDs also. But I like seeing skill rewarded, rather than just play time.

  • 11.15.2009 7:22 AM PDT
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"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

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I think this is how it should work:

+ 1 Your team wins
+ 1 You do best on your team
+ 1 You get MVP

- 1 Your team loses
- 1 You do worst on your team

So say your team loses but you get MVP then you would still go up one skill because you got + 1 for being best on your team and + 1 for getting MVP despite - 1 because your team lost.

This would be fairer and relfect on the person as well as the team as a whole.

  • 11.15.2009 7:27 AM PDT

What spectagon are you in?

I really don't see what the problem is with true skill. The ranking system works fine for me.

  • 11.15.2009 7:32 AM PDT
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In the Ranked Infection DEX weekend I went up to 41 and all the games were easy. The next day all the games were hard and I went down to 38. What I am saying is that lots of people were able to get to 45 because it was easer earler on. I didn't yet does that mean I am not as good as them? No. I could have got a 45 if I had played more the day before not the day I did. That shows that it doesn't always represent skill but rather what your skill could be.

  • 11.15.2009 7:57 AM PDT

Vancouver BC, Canada.

If it does have one, I hope it's better than the junky one we have now.

  • 11.15.2009 8:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: fifthderelicte
I don't think that would be bad for the military ranks. In fact, I think that would be really cool. However, I don't particularly agree that it should be used for skill ranking, unless you added that second part in your reply. If you can get up to a 50 just by accumulating kills, double kills, assists, etc over time, everyone could get to a 50 eventually. If you add in things like deaths, quitting and and leaving your team hanging (in team games), coming in with a negative k/d ratio, coming in last on your team, etc - that would ensure that only better people made it to the top.

You could gain experience for kills, assists, captures, and stuff like that, but lose it for deaths and betrayals.

It could be like Firefight where you get 100 base points plus whatever addition and multipliers, and also where you lose 250 points per death and per betrayal. That way you have to either be a good team player or get a lot of the objectives for your team to get a good rank.

So if you incorporate that, I think it's actually a really fun way to set goals for yourself in the game. The only problem with this is people trying to pad their stats and get up in rank. People already try to pad stats, can you imagine if the stats actually meant something? You'd have a team of people trying to steal kills instead of work together, sit back and let the rest of the team do the work while they pick people off, etc. It's too easy to manipulate on the way up and the way down. On top of that, it has the potential to kill gameplay.
I don't see it killing gameplay, I think gameplay would stay just about the same. People already do those things, they will continue to do them too, but you don't have to hold a new ranking system back just because they might get a higher level than they should. People already manipulate the current one with new accounts and quitting and all of the other methods people have come up with.

Like I said, as a secondary system, or even as one component of the primary system, it would be cool. I just don't know how I feel about it being the primary system. When you play a team game, you're supposed to help your team win. It's not just about you doing well, but about working with the team, communicating, etc. Sometimes your team just sucks and you lose, but there are times where you just fail your team by being a lone wolf. Win as a team, lose as a team.
You can still lose ranks by losing a game and win ranks by winning a game. All this system would do would make your rank more about you. If a person doesn't do well as a team player they probably won't get a very high rank, because their team will lose most of the time.

The influence of the exp you get from kills and assists wouldn't be nearly as much as the influence of wins or losses on your rank. The exp would be a purely secondary system of ranking up. It would cushion your rank a little if you lose a game and bolster it a little if you win. It would be hard to rank up solely from the exp you get, because if you do good in a game you're likely to win the game. If you win your Trueskill will bring you to the next rank before your exp from kills would.

  • 11.15.2009 10:00 AM PDT

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