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  • Subject: Does bungie care about the competitive community?
Subject: Does bungie care about the competitive community?
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meh mlg is kinda lame anyways

  • 11.15.2009 1:25 PM PDT

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Posted by: in the Krutch

For the most part, MLGers are rational and can have intelligent discussions without resorting to insults.


I highly disagree. If you look at people like Tsquared then you begin to wonder how MLG can support this style of acting to represent who they are. I've known that scrub since Halo 1 on XBC (which he sucked at might I add) and his attitude is a disgrace to any competitive community.

From the MLG events I've seen and all the trash talking that goes around, I have only seen a handful of honorable participators.

  • 11.15.2009 1:46 PM PDT

I speak the truth, and truth speaks itself.
The lies disguise what you despise.
Run. Flee and be, what you've always dreamed.
What happens now won't matter later.
What you see will not be, nor what you imagine will not happen.
The end is close, so take your dose.

MLG is actually pretty small compared to the rest of Halo gamers. :|

[Edited on 11.15.2009 5:45 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 1:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Probably, and I probably should give a few MLG playlists some runs to have a better view. Might do that next time I have some friends over after we do ODST Firefight.

I just hate people that take games so seriously they won't let others have fun.
Although it might not be your definition of fun, the people who take the game seriously probably have fun doing so. The point of playing video games is fun, and unless they're paid play testers, which I doubt they are, they're probably playing for pleasure.

If you don't like the competition, just play social. That's what it's there for. No need to bash the competitive side of the game, there's a place for everyone.

@Unknown

Many of the frequent MLG forum-goers have reasons for the changes they want to implement in games. A lot of the time, it's backed up by either past experience or research. It's not just mindless whining. I wouldn't consider any of the pros part of the MLG forum community. They aren't usually seen making threads.

[Edited on 11.15.2009 2:01 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 1:58 PM PDT

I don't bash the competitive side, I agree having skill is good.

My second statement was more along the lines of for example(This actually happened with me being player 1, another local kid being player 2).

Player 1 grabs flag, makes a dash out of red base to the cover of the rocks in standoff, and gets sniped when he reaches there.
Player 2 starts yelling at him for being stupid and why would he do such a stupid thing.
Player 1 replies there were enemies coming up on him and the best action he saw was to run.
Player 2 keeps yelling.

  • 11.15.2009 2:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: elementf89
But do any of you realize that if the gaming engine were ANYTHING like ODST's the game will never be nearly as competitive as halo 2 or 3?


Ahem... ODST used the same engine as Halo 3...

  • 11.15.2009 2:18 PM PDT

I'm just a guy like you that plays halo.

I would rather have fun than get competitive in Halo.

  • 11.15.2009 2:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I don't bash the competitive side, I agree having skill is good.

My second statement was more along the lines of for example(This actually happened with me being player 1, another local kid being player 2).

Player 1 grabs flag, makes a dash out of red base to the cover of the rocks in standoff, and gets sniped when he reaches there.
Player 2 starts yelling at him for being stupid and why would he do such a stupid thing.
Player 1 replies there were enemies coming up on him and the best action he saw was to run.
Player 2 keeps yelling.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. Playing competitively doesn't necessarily mean yelling at teammates though, especially when someone is trying to play competitively but their teammates are not.

That's why I usually go in with at least one person I know if I want to play seriously.

  • 11.15.2009 2:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: elementf89
MLG is a huge part of halo
no it really is not the cusual has way bigger population mlg is pretty small but make halo reach a cusal game not hardcore

  • 11.15.2009 2:23 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: elementf89
MLG is a part of halo, and encompasses a part of the fan base. Some say that the MLG style of play is competitive and a fast paced way to play.
My question is, does bungie care about the competitive community to taylor halo reach to continue to play in the MLG style?
Edited for concrete language.

Bunge does more for the competitive community than any other game that I know of.

They have adjustable settings in custom games that can be mplemented into onlne play.

They maintain an entire playlst specifically tailored to MLG settings, which you alluded to being competitive.

So what I am saying is, I don't believe that Bungie has "abandoned" any type of player, except perhaps HLG.

  • 11.15.2009 2:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: bry648 legend
Posted by: elementf89
MLG is a huge part of halo
no it really is not the cusual has way bigger population mlg is pretty small but make halo reach a cusal game not hardcore


I get sick of people saying that when it makes no sense. Halo 3 has Forge, Customs, and Social games one can play, not to mention the campaign with whomever you want to play with, on whatever difficulty you want to play on. There are plenty of fully automatic weapons, explosives and vehicles. Why can't Bungie do just a little and take out a lot of the aim assist, melee lunge, make the weapons have a larger skill gap (i.e. more accurate when pumped), and provide for better weapon balancing - particularly with precision weapons?

The people who are "casual" gamers won't notice anything, and will have fun missing with 2/3 of their AR bullets, or 2/3 of their sniper bullets. They can play all kinds of games they want, and they would even be able to go into ranked and have a good time because the skill gap would actually be accurate, and the good would be separated even more so from the bad. You people just don't understand that the game is largely made for the casual player, and it's not wrong to want ranked geared towards the competitive player. There are too many biased, ignorant people on here who just can't see beyond their own self-righteous and egotistical selves.

[EDIT] Like ^he^ said, I don't believe the competitive community has been abandoned, but I think they have been largely ignored. When you have a family meal and you all sit down to eat, but throw scraps over in the corner for your one child, you're still feeding him, but you're not really doing much for him. Granted, Bungie has done A LOT in terms of options, but they address mostly peripheral issues as opposed to core issues of weapons and other gameplay issues. I'm appreciative of all they've done, but it wouldn't be that hard to give the competitive community a larger skill gap, which would do nothing but benefit the casual players.

[Edited on 11.15.2009 2:36 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 2:33 PM PDT

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Posted by: bry648 legend
Posted by: elementf89
MLG is a huge part of halo
no it really is not the cusual has way bigger population mlg is pretty small but make halo reach a cusal game not hardcore


If you want an easier FPS game go play MW2. If they make Halo Reach tend more to the casual audience like Halo 3 and MOST other games coming out on the market (Nintendo anyone?)... I will explode and hope you never get to play Halo again.

  • 11.15.2009 2:35 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Make as many custom options as possble, and you won't have to choose between competitive and recreational, since you could support both.

[Edited on 11.15.2009 2:41 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 2:39 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
Posted by: in the Krutch

For the most part, MLGers are rational and can have intelligent discussions without resorting to insults.


I highly disagree. If you look at people like Tsquared then you begin to wonder how MLG can support this style of acting to represent who they are. I've known that scrub since Halo 1 on XBC (which he sucked at might I add) and his attitude is a disgrace to any competitive community.

From the MLG events I've seen and all the trash talking that goes around, I have only seen a handful of honorable participators.


Interesting. You talk about how T2 is a disgrace to the competitive community and talk about honor and call him a "scrub", it brings me lulz.

Why the -blam!- would playing MLG require honor of some sort? Its a bunch of people in their teens / early 20's playing a video game. Trash talk has been apart of EVERY single video game that has had a multiplayer function and always will be regardless if the gameplay is competitive or casual. Getting in side your opponents head using trash talk is something you obviously don't understand. In fact, I hear more trash talk going into Team Slayer and Team Snipers (a lot more in Snipers actually) than I do when I frequent the MLG playlist.

  • 11.15.2009 2:42 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Why the -blam!- would playing MLG require honor of some sort?
Good point.

Trash talk has been apart of EVERY single video game that has had a multiplayer function and always will be regardless if the gameplay is competitive or casual.
Evidence:
Street Fighter Trash Talk

[Edited on 11.15.2009 2:50 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 2:50 PM PDT

Posted by: elementf89
Or will they keep trying to chase the leisurely noob friendly style of play, which will attract the less talented, and less serious gamers who are now playing CoD?


Lol'ed at this. Normally i don't come to B.Net but it's amusing to see how stupid people can be. As of now, CoD is one of the most fast-paced and competitive games on the circuit, much moreso then Halo 3.

Halo 3 is incredibly slow compared to Halo 1 or 2, and other games, such as CounterStrike, CoD, and Gears of War put it to shame.

Just because Halo 3's the flagship game of MLG, doesn't mean it requires the most skill. Go try to play CoD MLG, or Gears, or CounterStrike, Hell even try Shadowrun even though it's almost dead. They're all exclusively harder then Halo 3, and require one to think instead of just running out in the open and hoping to get kills.

Edit-Also, on the trashtalk thing, it's not exclusive to Halo/video games/MLG. It's everywhere, and it's not always talking. Have you ever seen someone juke someone out in football or soccer, then do something to show off? Have you seen the fights that happen in hockey? what about in the 2006 World Cup when Zidane headbutted the italian player. Trashtalk is in the pro leagues of every sport, including MLG, but it's not exclusive to MLG.

[Edited on 11.15.2009 3:02 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 2:56 PM PDT

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Posted by: tepezcuintle
Posted by: dangerbyrnes
skill = the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well. this includes anything, good at killing with an AR? it's skill. good at driving vehicles? it's skill. skill does not depend on what you use.

now if i recollect, most of bungies decisions have been in favor of the competitive community after halo 3 launched. why were shield doors removed? why did bungie add MLG? why are swat and snipers permanent and grifball and infection not? why were anvil and other foundry maps removed? and why was equipment such as the radar jammer removed?

i'm pretty sure bungie cares about the competitive community, sometimes i think they care too much...

nice, game over


You fail to realize the argument. You oversimplify it and play semantics to your advantage. Nobody argues that Halo as it is takes no skill whatsoever. Heck, the skill starts when you pick up your remote to turn on the television. There are plenty of people out there who are not in the right mind or physical condition to even do such a menial task. But I doubt you'd consider turning on your television a real skill, or one that we should take into consideration here.

Halo 3 does take skill, and yes, better people typically do better. But people argue that there is too much randomization and too little of a skill gap to distinguish skill in Halo as it stands now. Why do we have double experience weekends? Why are 9/10 of the weapons in Halo fully automatic, CQ, or highly explosive and easy to use? Why do spartans move so slowly? Why is there so much autoaim? Why is there melee lunge? And all of this for a group of people who largely dwindle as the game ages.

I just created a thread that deals with these exact issues (you'll find FinalHazard trolling there as well). You'll find that allowing the game to be more difficult (potentially) and providing the means for a larger skill gap actually benefits the casual players as well as the hardcore.



turning on the TV can be a skill, no matter how pointless or random said skill is it is still skill.

so... why exactly are these things (double experience weekends? 9/10 of the weapons in Halo fully automatic, CQ, or highly explosive, spartans move slowly, autoaim? melee lunge?) considered not skillful or for the non-competitive community? there could be competitive CQB, there could be competitive explosives, competitive frickin fully automatic. speed has nothing to do with competitive gameplay. meelee lunge is still competitive, if everyone has it then it isn't non competitive.
double exp's do have non-competitive games, but how many are permanent playlists?

like i said skill/competitive gameplay is dependant on the objects available and how you use it, autoaim and lunge and fully auto weapons and explosive weapons and cqb are all (or should be) factored into whether something is "skillful" or "competitive".

now please don't say i'm trolling, because you have no right to say i am. just because me and Final hazzard have differing opinions than yours does not make me a troll.

i really don't care if you disagree, as it is my opinion that bungie spends too much time on the competitive aspect of the game. now i really don't want to commit any more of my time to this discussion. i have better stuff to do than argue with someone who has their mind set in one direction. i'm not saying the game needs to be less competitive, i'm just pointing out that bungie seems to be more committed to the competitive community.

  • 11.15.2009 3:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: dangerbyrnes
Just a quick note: I said FinalHazard was trolling because he was. If you look at my linked thread, you'll see that he brought nothing to the table of discussion and was just an @hole.

If you read what I said, you'd realize that I agree with you to an extent. Yes, there is currently skill in Halo. But just as turning on a television is such a menial chore, it isn't really deemed a notable skill, the same can be said of some of the gameplay components we currently have. Does Halo take skill? Yes. Are there a lot of elements that are about as notable as turning on a television? Yes.

For you to sit there and disagree that more skill could be implemented in this game is ludicrous. You may not feel that you need it, but there is a large enough amount of the population who disagrees with someone like you, "who has [your] mind set in one direction." As I've stated so many times here, I'm not about destroying the casual game, but rather about bringing a larger skill gap to the table to appease those of us who like competition, which will also help the casual players to have a better experience.

Is there skill involved with Halo as it is? Yes. Are there core components that are unnecessary and detract from a skill gap? Yes. Would it help both the casual and hardcore gamers to address these issues? Yes. If you'd read the rest of my posts, I believe you'd see more of what I'm saying. I'm sorry you somehow think I'm a mindless MLG follower. Your attack on me makes me think you're just a mindless hater of competitive players. I've done nothing but argue compromises and benefits here while you ignore me and say I think the current game takes no skill. You completely skipped my second paragraph and just pull out things that make me sound bad without addressing it in context.

  • 11.15.2009 3:20 PM PDT

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Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
Posted by: in the Krutch

For the most part, MLGers are rational and can have intelligent discussions without resorting to insults.


I highly disagree. If you look at people like Tsquared then you begin to wonder how MLG can support this style of acting to represent who they are. I've known that scrub since Halo 1 on XBC (which he sucked at might I add) and his attitude is a disgrace to any competitive community.

From the MLG events I've seen and all the trash talking that goes around, I have only seen a handful of honorable participators.


Interesting. You talk about how T2 is a disgrace to the competitive community and talk about honor and call him a "scrub", it brings me lulz.

Why the -blam!- would playing MLG require honor of some sort? Its a bunch of people in their teens / early 20's playing a video game. Trash talk has been apart of EVERY single video game that has had a multiplayer function and always will be regardless if the gameplay is competitive or casual. Getting in side your opponents head using trash talk is something you obviously don't understand. In fact, I hear more trash talk going into Team Slayer and Team Snipers (a lot more in Snipers actually) than I do when I frequent the MLG playlist.


LMFAO! So if people were to listen to you, then the stereotype of MLG would never be positive. Also, you stereotype every single teenager/young 20 year old by saying they all talk smack, which is not the case whatsoever.

If you want something to have meaning and credibility, ESPECIALLY something professional, then you need to act the role and fit the shoes of a quality role model for upcoming prospects or even fans of the community.


Case closed. If you disagree with this then clearly you lack maturity and what it takes to be considered professional and be respected.

  • 11.15.2009 4:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
If you want something to have meaning and credibility, ESPECIALLY something professional, then you need to act the role and fit the shoes of a quality role model for upcoming prospects or even fans of the community.


NBA

Boxing

NFL

...PGA?

I agree that there SHOULD be responsibility in professional role models, but the truth is that that isn't expected today. It's sad, but it's the norm.

[Edited on 11.15.2009 4:17 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2009 4:13 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
LMFAO! So if people were to listen to you, then the stereotype of MLG would never be positive. Also, you stereotype every single teenager/young 20 year old by saying they all talk smack, which is not the case whatsoever.

If you want something to have meaning and credibility, ESPECIALLY something professional, then you need to act the role and fit the shoes of a quality role model for upcoming prospects or even fans of the community.

Case closed. If you disagree with this then clearly you lack maturity and what it takes to be considered professional and be respected.


I don't remember a time where the stereotype of MLG was positive, and if there ever was such a time it was over 3 years ago at the very least when it was in its infancy. Where did I say that every single teenager / early 20's trash talked? Please, point it out. Don't worry, I'll wait. Its very other hand, its pretty apparent you have never been to a LAN. I've been to over 25 Halo 3 LANs, at every single one there was gratuitous trash talking, and at least 5 of them were LANs with a bunch of friends who just played Halo for fun and non competitively.

Many professional athletes are about the farthest thing from role models I could think of and how many of them are respected professionals?

  • 11.15.2009 4:22 PM PDT

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Posted by: fifthderelicte

I agree that there SHOULD be responsibility in professional role models, but the truth is that that isn't expected today. It's sad, but it's the norm.


True. So sad.

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX

I don't remember a time where the stereotype of MLG was positive, and if there ever was such a time it was over 3 years ago at the very least when it was in its infancy. Where did I say that every single teenager / early 20's trash talked? Please, point it out. Don't worry, I'll wait. Its very other hand, its pretty apparent you have never been to a LAN. I've been to over 25 Halo 3 LANs, at every single one there was gratuitous trash talking, and at least 5 of them were LANs with a bunch of friends who just played Halo for fun and non competitively.



You generalized. Reread what you stated above and you never said words like "many" or "some" teenagers. You worded yourself by just saying "teenagers are immature" generalizing all teenagers into the category of immaturity. Now that your waiting has patiently paid off and I successfully proved you wrong, let's move on, shall we?


Many professional athletes are about the farthest thing from role models I could think of and how many of them are respected professionals?

Sure many professional athletes are big trash talkers, but WAY more athletes are professional in how they act and represent themselves. Just because there are a sour few in professional sports/activities doesn't mean you can use that as evidence to support your ignorant claims lol...


Also, I'm willing to bet that I've played all 3 Halo games more competitively than you ever have. Me and one of my friends were one of the best 2v2 teams in Halo 1 competitively, beating teams like the OGRES and other well-known teams today. However, I was never able to attend tournies over the years and whatnot, but I know the scene and it's very sad.



If you want something you participate in to go as far as possible, then you need to represent it properly and gain respect. You think we'd be having this conversation of 95% of MLG players and die-hard competitive were respectful? No.




Now I'm curious as to what you're going to say next lol...

  • 11.15.2009 4:59 PM PDT

I'm the cult of personality,
I call it like i see it, if i feel the need to be blunt and to the point, then i will, if i feel the need to be very detailed, i will, im here to stay and im here to do things my way, if you respect that or not is your choice, not mine,
and don't worry, while i don't agree with everyone's opinion, i do respect everyone's opinion.

MLG is a huge part of halo HAHA no it aint
Many say that the MLG style of play is the most competitive and fast paced way to play they also say if you dont use the BR is Sniper rifle you wont win.
any new gamer to halo can take an ar, and charge people for a few kills. However it takes accuracy and strategy to "out br" people who are good at the game
the line [Out BRed] is stupid plus people need to unlike MLG Use different weapons
does bungie care enough about the competitive community to taylor halo reach to continue to play well in the MLG style we have been playing for years? the people that DONT play MLG are the SMART ones that like to use different weapon other then just BR and Sniper but i think Bungie really dont give a -blam!- about MLG.

the more people that start to go away from MLG will see that there are OTHER good weapons.
and MLG people also bash other people for using ANYTHING other then a Br or Sniper.
MLG Needs to be REMOVED from Halo Permanently

  • 11.15.2009 5:24 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
You generalized. Reread what you stated above and you never said words like "many" or "some" teenagers. You worded yourself by just saying "teenagers are immature" generalizing all teenagers into the category of immaturity. Now that your waiting has patiently paid off and I successfully proved you wrong, let's move on, shall we?


I actually never said that they were trash talking. I was asking why a video game being played by a bunch of teenagers and people in there early 20's would require honor for it to be successful. You say if something is seeking to be credible and meaningful then they need to act like role models. I guess we should just disregard the fact that MLG has had massive amounts of growth over its 7 years of existence. Its gone from a tournament that people would drive to and hope they would actually pay out the prize money advertised to a company that put one of their gamers on over 100 million Dr Pepper bottles that hundreds of thousands of people view. That player, funny enough, is the one that you were -blam!-ing about specifically. They obviously don't need to act professional.

Interesting that you pulled a "teenagers are immature" quote from what I said when I never said that. The funny thing is that you actually agree with me and say that most of the players are unprofessional and are crying that I'm the one generalizing. Actually, you do it at the end of your post.


You think we'd be having this conversation of 95% of MLG players and die-hard competitive were respectful? No.

Hmm, unless you have met or have seen 100% of the MLG players who attended events play (impossible) you just pulled a random statistic out of your ass to help your cause. BUT I'M THE ONE GENERALIZING. And considering you said you haven't met these players in person because you said earlier that you haven't been to tournies...

Sure many professional athletes are big trash talkers, but WAY more athletes are professional in how they act and represent themselves. Just because there are a sour few in professional sports/activities doesn't mean you can use that as evidence to support your ignorant claims lol...

No, professional athletes know how to represent themselves when the media attention is on them. There are some genuinely professional athletes, but its more of a "they aren't doing anything wrong because they haven't been caught yet" scenario. How many professional baseball players did steroids before they started cracking down? Interesting how small so many of them got, even ones that weren't in the spot light all of the sudden.

Also, I'm willing to bet that I've played all 3 Halo games more competitively than you ever have. Me and one of my friends were one of the best 2v2 teams in Halo 1 competitively, beating teams like the OGRES and other well-known teams today. However, I was never able to attend tournies over the years and whatnot, but I know the scene and it's very sad.

What does this have to do with anything? Heard -blam!- like this before, never believed it before, I don't believe it now. So your bragging about beating the Ogres on XBC? I'm guessing you had host seeing as how back when Halo 1 was MLG's bread and butter they would have been living at the same house and dual hosting and raping you considering the host advantage on XBC is insane.

  • 11.15.2009 9:11 PM PDT

Group invites will be treated very poorly because the Care Package is empty.

__/
|__|

MLG is a miniscule portion of Halo, and doesn't or shouldn't be a modifying factor in any of the games. The larger portion, aka 'Money', are the casual gamers.

Who do you think Bungie, or any other gaming company cares about?

  • 11.15.2009 9:14 PM PDT