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Subject: Halo has gotten worse ever since CE. How will Bungie break the cycle?
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: grey101
Posted by: ABotelho


Like I sorta mentioned, yes, Halo: CE had some elements that were superior to that of Halo 3. But who could refuse, that the Elite plot twist of Halo 2 was in fact very brilliant, and it sacrificed playing against Elites in Halo 3. Elites were in fact much funner and action orientated then Brutes, they moved around a lot, and took cover much more often, forcing you to risk getting out of your own cover to go finish one off; only to get destroyed by other enemies.

It's just the fact that people consider Halo: CE THE game to imitate for Reach, when it itself had many flaws. Halo 2 & 3 have many things that are improved/better then Halo: CE. People seem to ignore said things. Why would you possibly want boarding removed? Honestly?

If people are smart, they would hope including everything that was good in the past Halo games, instead of following one of them. Why not make this game the ultimate Halo game? Let Halo: Reach be Halo: Reach, not Halo: CE, not Halo 2, not Halo 3. Let it be a combination of the good things of the series, and more.


Point taking that we do agree and see each others point of view. Like you said it would be nice if bungie could include all of the elements from the halo series that are trademark to that game. seeing how the elites will be the main enemies in fall of reach they should make a comeback,but will bungie do it?

  • 11.16.2009 3:58 PM PDT

Posted by: ABotelho
Posted by: grey101
Posted by: ABotelho


Like I sorta mentioned, yes, Halo: CE had some elements that were superior to that of Halo 3. But who could refuse, that the Elite plot twist of Halo 2 was in fact very brilliant, and it sacrificed playing against Elites in Halo 3. Elites were in fact much funner and action orientated then Brutes, they moved around a lot, and took cover much more often, forcing you to risk getting out of your own cover to go finish one off; only to get destroyed by other enemies.

It's just the fact that people consider Halo: CE THE game to imitate for Reach, when it itself had many flaws. Halo 2 & 3 have many things that are improved/better then Halo: CE. People seem to ignore said things. Why would you possibly want boarding removed? Honestly?

If people are smart, they would hope including everything that was good in the past Halo games, instead of following one of them. Why not make this game the ultimate Halo game? Let Halo: Reach be Halo: Reach, not Halo: CE, not Halo 2, not Halo 3. Let it be a combination of the good things of the series, and more.


I agree on every level. Nice to see others feel the same.

  • 11.16.2009 4:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ABotelho
Like I sorta mentioned, yes, Halo: CE had some elements that were superior to that of Halo 3. But who could refuse, that the Elite plot twist of Halo 2 was in fact very brilliant, and it sacrificed playing against Elites in Halo 3. Elites were in fact much funner and action orientated then Brutes, they moved around a lot, and took cover much more often, forcing you to risk getting out of your own cover to go finish one off; only to get destroyed by other enemies.

It's just the fact that people consider Halo: CE THE game to imitate for Reach, when it itself had many flaws. Halo 2 & 3 have many things that are improved/better then Halo: CE. People seem to ignore said things. Why would you possibly want boarding removed? Honestly?

If people are smart, they would hope including everything that was good in the past Halo games, instead of following one of them. Why not make this game the ultimate Halo game? Let Halo: Reach be Halo: Reach, not Halo: CE, not Halo 2, not Halo 3. Let it be a combination of the good things of the series, and more.

The problem with Halo 2 was not the twist, but the fact that it wasn't supposed to be only Halo 2. Halo 2 was supposed to be the final Halo game and Bungie had planned that. But development changes and Microsoft changed that plan and what we got was a bunch of revealing information and the sacrafice of Elites as enemies in Halo 3. Halo 2 practically killed the persona of the Covenant and turned them into just another variation of Humans. They lost their mysterious, dangerous and aggressive feel. Halo 3 did a good job of bringing some of that back but honestly the damage Halo 2 had done was irreversible on Halo's image.

If Halo 2 had been the last of the series, Halo 2 wouldn't have been so irritating.


1.I don't ever remember hearing that halo 2 was going to be the last game, bungie had set it to be a trilogy if not more after the success from the books and halo 1.

2.the covenant didn't lose there persona,if anything they gained it. most of the halo 2 levels i replayed were the arbiter levels because we saw a DIFFERENT side, for the little kids that don't understand the story it sucked and they never wanted it again but if you understood what was taking place you were filled with awe.

The arbiter being sent to quell heretics was a good twist, it started to show that some covenant DID have doubts about the prophets and the irony is they were correct about everything.The relationship with Tarturus and the Arbiter was good and very well played part by bungie. you could feel the tension rise to the climax of the betrayal of the brutes and the civil war that took place from within. Which soon lead to the meeting of the 3 sides being the arby,gravemind, and chief which in itself was an interesting meeting because the gravemind WANTED to show the the truth, how everything they know is wrong and to soon be at an end.

3. so you might want to go back,read up, and replay halo 2 and get a better understanding of it because it has a very good and deep plot if and only if you understand it.

  • 11.16.2009 4:08 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: grey101
1.I don't ever remember hearing that halo 2 was going to be the last game, bungie had set it to be a trilogy if not more after the success from the books and halo 1.

really? Don't recall that ever happening. Ever wonder why Halo 2 felt really drawn out? If Halo 2 had been confined to Master Chief, the game would have been less than two hours long. I'm betting the Arbiter campaign would have more likely been something similar to ODST. Halo 2's storyline is incredibly short and uninteresting and only seems long due to the sheer size of the levels.

Posted by: grey101
2.the covenant didn't lose there persona,if anything they gained it. most of the halo 2 levels i replayed were the arbiter levels because we saw a DIFFERENT side, for the little kids that don't understand the story it sucked and they never wanted it again but if you understood what was taking place you were filled with awe.

Gained what? The ability to speak English and lose every fraction of mystery there was in the first game? I'm all for revealing information about the Covenant, but honestly the game started off revealing almost EVERYTHING about the Covenant. The game was more about the Arbiter than the MC for the most part.

Posted by: grey101
The arbiter being sent to quell heretics was a good twist, it started to show that some covenant DID have doubts about the prophets and the irony is they were correct about everything.The relationship with Tarturus and the Arbiter was good and very well played part by bungie. you could feel the tension rise to the climax of the betrayal of the brutes and the civil war that took place from within. Which soon lead to the meeting of the 3 sides being the arby,gravemind, and chief which in itself was an interesting meeting because the gravemind WANTED to show the the truth, how everything they know is wrong and to soon be at an end.

I'm not saying the Arbiter's story wasn't interesting. But there was little to nothing to do with MC in that series and most of the plot development was in the Arbiters hands. It was less Halo 2 than it was Halo 2: The Arbiter.

Posted by: grey101
3. so you might want to go back,read up, and replay halo 2 and get a better understanding of it because it has a very good and deep plot if and only if you understand it.

My point was that the plot was rushed because the game was practically rebuilt from scratch a year before release, including plot pacing and story content. This is a fact known well by the Halo community and has been confirmed by Bungie. A huge overhaul of the game happened late in its development and this is why Halo 2 was so rushed and somewhat unfinished.

  • 11.16.2009 4:17 PM PDT

X25thassaultforceX

If you hate H3 your dumb...

  • 11.16.2009 4:19 PM PDT

Halo 2 wasn't a problem. The whole prophet betraying the Elites was very interesting. It was one, or the other. We couldn't have Elites against the Covenant AND fight them.

  • 11.16.2009 4:20 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: ABotelho
Halo 2 wasn't a problem. The whole prophet betraying the Elites was very interesting. It was one, or the other. We couldn't have Elites against the Covenant AND fight them.

True, but the Civil War could have been far more subtle. There are even plot holes as to why the Hunters and Grunts did not stay allied with the Elites.

  • 11.16.2009 4:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: grey101
1.I don't ever remember hearing that halo 2 was going to be the last game, bungie had set it to be a trilogy if not more after the success from the books and halo 1.

really? Don't recall that ever happening. Ever wonder why Halo 2 felt really drawn out? If Halo 2 had been confined to Master Chief, the game would have been less than two hours long. I'm betting the Arbiter campaign would have more likely been something similar to ODST. Halo 2's storyline is incredibly short and uninteresting and only seems long due to the sheer size of the levels.

Posted by: grey101
2.the covenant didn't lose there persona,if anything they gained it. most of the halo 2 levels i replayed were the arbiter levels because we saw a DIFFERENT side, for the little kids that don't understand the story it sucked and they never wanted it again but if you understood what was taking place you were filled with awe.

Gained what? The ability to speak English and lose every fraction of mystery there was in the first game? I'm all for revealing information about the Covenant, but honestly the game started off revealing almost EVERYTHING about the Covenant. The game was more about the Arbiter than the MC for the most part.

Posted by: grey101
The arbiter being sent to quell heretics was a good twist, it started to show that some covenant DID have doubts about the prophets and the irony is they were correct about everything.The relationship with Tarturus and the Arbiter was good and very well played part by bungie. you could feel the tension rise to the climax of the betrayal of the brutes and the civil war that took place from within. Which soon lead to the meeting of the 3 sides being the arby,gravemind, and chief which in itself was an interesting meeting because the gravemind WANTED to show the the truth, how everything they know is wrong and to soon be at an end.

I'm not saying the Arbiter's story wasn't interesting. But there was little to nothing to do with MC in that series and most of the plot development was in the Arbiters hands. It was less Halo 2 than it was Halo 2: The Arbiter.

Posted by: grey101
3. so you might want to go back,read up, and replay halo 2 and get a better understanding of it because it has a very good and deep plot if and only if you understand it.

My point was that the plot was rushed because the game was practically rebuilt from scratch a year before release, including plot pacing and story content. This is a fact known well by the Halo community and has been confirmed by Bungie. A huge overhaul of the game happened late in its development and this is why Halo 2 was so rushed and somewhat unfinished.


1. can i get a link to support your claim?

2.The covenant have been speaking English and other human languages since the war if not a little before since i think it was cortana that said they must have been studying them, which they were. read fall of reach and contact harvest if you want more on that.

and if your talking about the level were your playing as the arbiter and he speak English, thats because you wouldn't understand any other alien language he said and subtitles would have killed it.

And we don't know "everything" about the covenant, there is actually alot to learn from the as a whole and species wise, i could honestly write a paper on what we don't know about them for example.

Do you know what happened to the weapons that were taken off of the forerunner keyship? How where the drones brought in to the covenant? How did the first interaction with the Engineers go? while we do know a substantial amount of the covenant we are far from knowing everything.

3.Master chief isn't what makes a halo game, yeah he is the main character but it isn't all about him, we wasn't the main focus of the more recent books and nobody isn't complaining about that. notice it was HALO 2, not Master chief 2. other characters have to be introduced and given prospective if we are to get any sort of understanding or reason on why the war is being fought like it was.

4. an yet it is still a good game nonetheless, which is also a fact known well by the Halo community and by Bungie.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ABotelho
Halo 2 wasn't a problem. The whole prophet betraying the Elites was very interesting. It was one, or the other. We couldn't have Elites against the Covenant AND fight them.

True, but the Civil War could have been far more subtle. There are even plot holes as to why the Hunters and Grunts did not stay allied with the Elites.
They did, it just wasn't shown in halo 3 because bungie didn't want "to confuse the players" even though im sure a hunter that doesn't fire at you and one that does wouldn't confuse anybody...

[Edited on 11.16.2009 4:35 PM PST]

  • 11.16.2009 4:33 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: grey101
1. can i get a link to support your claim?

Finding a link for something Halo that is around Halo 2's release and is NOT related to Halo 3 would be days of searching. If you want to try, be my guest.

Posted by: grey101
2.The covenant have been speaking English and other human languages since the war if not a little before since i think it was cortana that said they must have been studying them, which they were. read fall of reach and contact harvest if you want more on that.

They haven't been speaking English before the war. The only reason the grunts could was because it was translation software (explained in Fall of Reach) and only one Elite spoke English in The Flood, and it was to a human (and he didn't like it, nor using the human pistol). The Elites and most of the Covenant considered the humans vermin, so speaking their language was like spewing feces.

Posted by: grey101
and if your talking about the level were your playing as the arbiter and he speak English, thats because you wouldn't understand any other alien language he said and subtitles would have killed it.

I'm talking about in the Chief's perspective. Even the cut scene at the beginning could have been started off with subtitles and a translation sequence could have been implemented. I was shocked when the Elites started speaking English in Halo 2 in the very first cut scene.

Posted by: grey101
And we don't know "everything" about the covenant, there is actually alot to learn from the as a whole and species wise, i could honestly write a paper on what we don't know about them for example.

We know thier histories in the Covenant, their homeworlds, their natural habitats, their skills and hierarchy in the Covenant, and even their Covenant names. What else is there to learn?

Posted by: grey101
Do you know what happened to the weapons that were taken off of the forerunner keyship? How where the drones brought in to the covenant? How did the first interaction with the Engineers go? while we do know a substantial amount of the covenant we are far from knowing everything.

I personally think the Drones should never have existed. They do not fit in the Halo universe at all and I feel they were just a quick substitute for the originally planned Engineers. They weren't even talked about until mere months before Halo 2's release and several dev discussions hinted to Engineers being in the game and they were not.

The fact we cannot explain a lot of things in Halo 2 is also supporting that the game was heavily rushed.

Posted by: grey101
3.Master chief isn't what makes a halo game, yeah he is the main character but it isn't all about him, we wasn't the main focus of the more recent books and nobody isn't complaining about that. notice it was HALO 2, not Master chief 2. other characters have to be introduced and given prospective if we are to get any sort of understanding or reason on why the war is being fought like it was.

When a series of games is about a specific character, and the first game is ENTIRELY from his perspective, why is this not the case for Halo 2? It is for both Halo CE and Halo 3. Both games are almost entirely from his own perspective yet Halo 2 was mostly from the Arbiter's. MC did nothing beyond kill the Prophet of Regret.

I understand your point (despite your constant contradictory grammar) but Halo 2 is the only multiple perspective Halo game made by Bungie (about the Chief, not counting ODST). That makes it an oddball. Characters can be introduced and add to the story WITHOUT switching playable characters. MC could have easily witnessed all of this.

Posted by: grey101
4. an yet it is still a good game nonetheless, which is also a fact known well by the Halo community and by Bungie.

I never said it was a bad game. But it is also known as one of the most disappointing Halo games alongside being in the running for the worst Halo game. The only true redeeming quality of Halo 2 was the multiplayer.

Posted by: grey101
They did, it just wasn't shown in halo 3 because bungie didn't want "to confuse the players" even though im sure a hunter that doesn't fire at you and one that does wouldn't confuse anybody...

That is called an excuse for, "well... it wasn't supposed to go that way so we'll act like it didn't."

[Edited on 11.16.2009 7:11 PM PST]

  • 11.16.2009 7:08 PM PDT

I agree that Halo CE's campaign was a bit better than Halo 3's but Halo 3 seems more multiplayer driven. It has saved me a lot of money. I'm serious, I've only bought 2 other games since I had my 360 because Halo 3 has kept me captivated since then.

  • 11.16.2009 7:21 PM PDT

Your in Bad Company.

Posted by: spreadin cheaks
[/quote]He worked hard on it. You can tell because it was so original.


Their is nothing wrong with stating what you believe to be right, but you should never act as if a (your) opinion is fact.[/quote]

Lol...talk about irony. How would you know If I worked on that insult 'very hard? because it was so original?' Sounds like an assumption that you are portraying true. Opinion much?
Obviously it was supposed to be taken as a snide comment, and not a literally statement. The fact that you tried to point out something that wasn't true, was more ironic.
Get over it, I'm not the one calling people retarded, you are.

  • 11.17.2009 5:02 PM PDT

Your in Bad Company.

Posted by: Eagleznest
I agree that Halo CE's campaign was a bit better than Halo 3's but Halo 3 seems more multiplayer driven. It has saved me a lot of money. I'm serious, I've only bought 2 other games since I had my 360 because Halo 3 has kept me captivated since then.
Which one's were those?

  • 11.17.2009 5:04 PM PDT

You think Halo 3 was "doo doo" (I don't know what the -blam!- that means) and you still play it, get a life man.

  • 11.17.2009 5:07 PM PDT

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