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  • Subject: Guide to Many Important Issues Addressed and Re-addressed
Subject: Guide to Many Important Issues Addressed and Re-addressed
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Fifthderelicte's guide to many important issues addressed and re-addressed in the modern Halo community: Insight for fixes in Reach

My goal here is to bring together some major posts that come up time and time again, and share with you some of the best discussions I have ever been in with others on these forums. It is inevitable that topics will continue to be repeated as we hash out issues, since the game we love so much experiences relatively few changes. My goal here is to point you to some good sources so as these issues come up again, you will have some good resources. On a final note, since I am writing this thread, I am obviously going to point you to my posts with my opinions, though they are often in threads where many disagree with me.

OMG RANKLOCK! Ranklock is for the cryptogamoeologists to study. It does not exist. The system works as it is intended, except for those who have ruined the system by stepping outside of its bounds, which perceptually and actually affects the rest of the community. Trueskill works in a system where everyone agrees to play by that system.

BETRAYAL BOOTINGSince griefers find ways around betraying, namely griefing through dealing damage only, and not death, a damage counter should be implemented for betrayal booting purposes.

RANK SYSTEMThe new rank system should aim to drop players quickly up and/or quickly down. Partnering with true skill, a perceived skill should be added to quickly get new accounts to where they should be. However, a minimum number of games (X) should be mandatory before attributing a high skill in a playlist or account to a particular player. This would prevent both bad sportsmanship where players beat up lower level players, as well as inflation of levels from booting via resetting sigma/mu.

See also why the ranking system of H2 was not perfect.Halo 2 had a lot of the same issues that H3 has in terms of ranking. However, H2 sorted players out on a much larger skill gap, which made every level count for something. But just as it would be foolish to want HCE back exactly as was, except with better graphics, so it is foolish to look to the H2 system for perfection as we seek to make a new system.

HEALTH AND HALO While health may be wonderful for creating an epic feel in campaign, it is a game slower in multiplayer that also promotes randomness in fights. The gameplay it brings has the potential to be overbearing, slow, and random and should not be incorporated into multiplayer.

The BR The H3 BR takes little skill. It often produces wins on a random basis, and at the same time, makes shieldless kills an expectation. The burst function allows for the easiest shot in the game (the BR headshot), and should be changed. A single shot weapon necessitates accuracy, especially for the final headshot - and if mixed with less autoaim, and many other factors, could be made very balanced and skilled.

HCE pistol in the BR Some argue for the HCE pistol to return, but they must realize that the game is different in many other aspects than CE. There are many changes that need to be made to the game before even thinking about returning this monster.

QUITTERSQuitting is not a "right," it is a privilege. If Bungie would have decided not to add a quit feature, or if they would punish you for quitting, it's their business. While individuals can do whatever they please, if it affects others, there can and should be punishment. A temporary lockout of MM until the game you were in would have finished would be fair for the first player or two who quit (or something of the sort), as if an emergency has truly arisen, you won't be playing the game for at least 10-15 minutes anyway. This would punish the jerks and do nothing to those who truly had emergencies.

MULTIACCOUNTERSMultiaccounters not only go outside the bounds of trueskill and mess with stats, they also ruin the experience of others. Whether it's making poor gameplay for lower levels or inflating the ranks of higher levels, their actions are deleterious to the community and to sportsmanship. There are legitimate reasons for creating more accounts, but that is not the scope of the linked thread. Implementation may be difficult for such a detection system, but we can still address the philosophical issue at hand and encourage/discourage actions as a community.

ELITE models are unfair in MMThere are many issues that are actually harmful to playing as an elite model, which include such things as model specific actions (spartans lunge farther with a sword, spartans can drop equipment from Hornet, etc) and several other things. The major problem is with perceived unfairness as opposed to actual unfairness.

ARs are skillessThis explores the fact that ARs take more skill than they are given credit for. They may not be on par with other weapons, but this shows that they do have place in a competitive game. Perhaps they shouldn't be the focal point of a competitive game, but they are not worthless.

COMPETITIVE COMMUNITY There are many biased people here both ways - for and against MLG. If you explore the thread I linked to, especially the post I highlighted, you'll see that moving gameplay more towards the competitive spectrum actually is unnoticeable in many ways to the casual players, and actually benefits them by creating a larger skill gap, therefore more equal matches.

Various other Multiplayer issuesThis thread (and the link inside of it) deals with weapon balancing as well as other things that could be added to the game to contribute to a better playing multiplayer experience.

LASER POWER : By request, I've added the laser topic. Anyone who's played H2 knows that grabbing the rockets and the banshee or hog was an automatic win. There were no counters other than getting the combo first. I propose that the current laser, with its ease of use and its power, is just like that combo. It kills vehicle usage by one team without question or effort, and in the same hand, it amplifies vehicle usage by the holding team by a lot. The game becomes very lopsided all because someone holds one weapon. We're not talking about an advantage here, we're talking about imbalance.

[YOUR HELP HERE:] If any of you have ideas of major themes of importance you've seen discussed on here, please let me know. Also, if you know of any good threads discussing the things above or other major issues, please provide me with a link so I can put them into the OP. Thanks!

[Edited on 11.18.2009 5:16 PM PST]

  • 11.17.2009 11:02 AM PDT

So instead of accidentally killing your teammate..you now get booted for shooting a bullet at your teammate!? F AI L

Personally, I think Bungie should do away with Betrayal. Why have it "possible" to kill your teammate anyway? In Gears of War friendly fire is an option. And in Rank it's not even experienced.


EDIT: The AR can be a skilled weapon. Short controlled bursts as in Halo CE. The current AR is nothing but a melee beat down weapon.

[Edited on 11.17.2009 11:12 AM PST]

  • 11.17.2009 11:05 AM PDT

poop

Thank You :)

  • 11.17.2009 11:10 AM PDT

.:. îXî - $ìgñ øf thé GøÐz .:.


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Î ũňķñ{ǾẄŃ} ū

Cool guide.

  • 11.17.2009 11:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: spreadin cheaks
So instead of accidentally killing your teammate..you now get booted for shooting a bullet at your teammate!? F AI L
I highly disagree. If you read my proposal in the link, you'd see that my base proposal (open to change) is to have the option to boot for 250 points, or whatever is equal to a little over 2 deaths. Of course if that's found to be too low, bump it up a bit. Let's say the equivalent damage to boot would equal four deaths, that means you've done quite a lot of damage to your teammates. It's easy to find an average number to plug in there via playtesting. You shouldn't be hurting your teammates for 4 death's worth in a game.

Right now there are tons of griefers in Halo who find ways around pure betrayals. Please read the thread before you respond with general arguments that aren't directed at a specific point.

Posted by: spreadin cheaks
Personally, I think Bungie should do away with Betrayal. Why have it "possible" to kill your teammate anyway? In Gears of War friendly fire is an option. And in Rank it's not even experienced.
Betrayals are a great part of every game. Taking betrayals out is dumb because it makes spamming grenades while your teammates go into places easy, you don't have to worry about blindly firing or doing careless things. It adds a great element of teamwork/communication and skill to the game.

Posted by: spreadin cheaks
EDIT: The AR can be a skilled weapon. Short controlled bursts as in Halo CE. The current AR is nothing but a melee beat down weapon.
I agree that this should be implemented, but even as it is now, I was trying to make a point that even the BR isn't much more skilled than the AR and the AR has a place in Halo. But yes, I think even CQ and SMG type weapons should have a skill gap or element of skill added to them.

  • 11.17.2009 12:45 PM PDT

Thing is, with betrayals they aren't even necessary. Bungie has implemented a custom games feature that allows you to turn friendly fire off, If betraying is that big of a deal wouldnt it make sense to simply dis allow it? I mean there is many times where the betrayal booting system thinks I should be booted for an accidental betrayal and i am kicked out of the game for no reason at all other then the fact that my grenade or whatever accidentally killed my teammate.

  • 11.18.2009 3:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: fifthderelicte
Fifthderelicte's guide to many important issues addressed and re-addressed in the modern Halo community: Insight for fixes in Reach

My goal here is to bring together some major posts that come up time and time again, and share with you some of the best discussions I have ever been in with others on these forums. It is inevitable that topics will continue to be repeated as we hash out issues, since the game we love so much experiences relatively few changes. My goal here is to point you to some good sources so as these issues come up again, you will have some good resources. On a final note, since I am writing this thread, I am obviously going to point you to my posts with my opinions, though they are often in threads where many disagree with me.

Huzzah.

Posted by: fifthderelic
The BR The H3 BR takes little skill. It often produces wins on a random basis, and at the same time, makes shieldless kills an expectation. The burst function allows for the easiest shot in the game (the BR headshot), and should be changed. A single shot weapon necessitates accuracy, especially for the final headshot - and if mixed with less autoaim, and many other factors, could be made very balanced and skilled.

If the you-know-whats are to believed then a Carbine-like BR is a possibility.

Posted by: fifthderelicteHCE pistol in the BR Some argue for the HCE pistol to return, but they must realize that the game is different in many other aspects than CE. There are many changes that need to be made to the game before even thinking about returning this monster.
I feel bad for pistols. They got a great thing going for them in movies and tv shows where they are often used as the jack of all trades and the master as well. In video games they are just filler until you can pick a real weapon.

Plasma Pistol is weak but very useful for Two-Hit Combos and countering vehicles. Mauler is a weakend version of the Shotgun. But the Magnum? Right now it's supposed to be the third medium range weapon but popular opinion has them ranked at slightly above useless. I would like a better Magnum that could perhaps be more related to a close range Sniper Rifle.

Also: No SpLaser link? Shame.

Also-Also: Go Dinosaurs, Brutes need love, and... uh... ARs are people too.

[Edited on 11.18.2009 3:35 PM PST]

  • 11.18.2009 3:32 PM PDT
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Proud frenchie, elite fan, anthro artist not hellbent on yiff convention/pics/whatever, mature and intelligent forum guy, 4chaner, halo 2 lover and halo 3 hater.

I LOVE your idea about betrayals.
it's really well thought.

  • 11.18.2009 3:36 PM PDT

a way to balance the BR would be to allow the player single shot when scoping.also the CE pistol was too powerful.how the hell can a pistol like it compete with a 3 round burst rifle????unless it has super exploding predator bullets i dont feel right with it

  • 11.18.2009 3:45 PM PDT
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I need a dropshield dropshield

Agree with all but not with the quitters
If I'd like to quit from a game that lag out or because the other team are cheating me(hlg)or other things(....)
I can't play for 10 minutes?

  • 11.18.2009 3:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: lex255
Agree with all but not with the quitters
If I'd like to quit from a game that lag out or because the other team are cheating me(hlg)or other things(....)
I can't play for 10 minutes?


That's just one of the many ideas you'll find via the link. You'll also find that the proposal is for the first person to quit a game, or possibly the first two. Other things could be implemented, such as a free quit without punishment for every X hours you log in MM or whatever. You can resolve some issues fairly easily.

That being said, if you're lagging game after game and continue to quit, what's the point of you going into another game and lagging it up? If you have to quit because of lag, you shouldn't be going into MM anyway. Whatever the reason you quit out of the game (as the first quitter, that is), there's really no reason for you to go right back into a game. If it was an emergency, you've got bigger things to worry about. If it was lag, your connection sucks so don't mess it up for everyone else. The list goes on.

  • 11.18.2009 5:13 PM PDT

Your in Bad Company.

I'd like the system to be able to tell the difference between lagging out, and quitting.


Again, another amazing post Fithder ^^

  • 11.18.2009 5:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tegernako
I'd like the system to be able to tell the difference between lagging out, and quitting.


Again, another amazing post Fithder ^^
I'm sure they could do that, since they were able to detect funky connections in regards to the banhammer. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this, as everyone has an unlucky connection every once in awhile. But honestly, if you're lagging out of games, you don't have any business continuing to lag up more and more games - lagging, quitting and joining - lagging, quitting and joining, etc. Give it a rest and wait for a better connection.

My biggest thing about quitting is that people think they can do what they want because you can do whatever works for you. But since we're an online community and your actions affect the experience of others, I see no problem with limitations.

  • 11.19.2009 3:32 PM PDT

Your in Bad Company.

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Posted by: Tegernako
I'd like the system to be able to tell the difference between lagging out, and quitting.


Again, another amazing post Fithder ^^
I'm sure they could do that, since they were able to detect funky connections in regards to the banhammer. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this, as everyone has an unlucky connection every once in awhile. But honestly, if you're lagging out of games, you don't have any business continuing to lag up more and more games - lagging, quitting and joining - lagging, quitting and joining, etc. Give it a rest and wait for a better connection.

My biggest thing about quitting is that people think they can do what they want because you can do whatever works for you. But since we're an online community and your actions affect the experience of others, I see no problem with limitations.
Yeah, but how many people actually care about others? Consider the average online experience, at least one guy has to ruin it for everyone else by being a jackass or something

  • 11.20.2009 2:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tegernako
Yeah, but how many people actually care about others? Consider the average online experience, at least one guy has to ruin it for everyone else by being a jackass or something

Right. That's exactly why I think penalties have to be harsh. There are really only three options: 1) Make harsh penalties 2)Incentivize people not to quit by making games quick, always fun, etc (though I don't know how this is possible, since Bungie already lets you choose by gametype) 3) Allow bots or others to fill in (I hate this idea)

They can do whatever they want, but I think they really need to go for #1, as you see in the OP.

  • 11.22.2009 7:23 AM PDT