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  • Subject: Competitive Halo
Subject: Competitive Halo

PLEASE READ THIS POST BEFORE COMMENTING. THANK YOU.

Before I start, I just want everyone to know that I am NOT an MLG Fanboy. Yes, I am a fan, but no, I am not obsessed with it. I only have a 32 in that playlist. I do enjoy casual gaming. My favorite playlist in Halo 3 is Social Slayer, because it's not serious and you can just goof off sometimes.

That aside, let's move on to the point.

Competitive Halo. Some of you say it never existed, but it did. Every Halo game is competitive, some more than others. If this wasn't the case, then MLG would not be using Halo as their "main" competitive game. You complain that a competitive Halo game would ruin the series, but there's a secret that you guys don't know.

You're all playing one right now.

And you all love it.

Let's rewind back to the Late 90's/Early 2000's. Halo: CE has just come out. It is an amazing game. It has gotten so much coverage, and has had so much hype, it's unbelievable. You get your hands on it, you're excited, you run home, turn on the Xbox, and you play it for the first time. And it doesn't disappoint. The campaign is great, and the multiplayer is unreal. You invite some friends over, order some pizza, grab a coke, and just sit back, relax, and play with your friends. Casually.

Now let's look at the other side. Halo: CE has just come out. It is an amazing game. It has gotten so much coverage, and has had so much hype, it's unbelievable. You get your hands on it, you're excited, you run home, you turn on the Xbox, and you play it for the first time. The Multiplayer is unbelievably amazing. You see this as a very competitive game. You practice and practice, and then go over to local LAN tournaments, and you play your heart out. You may win, you may lose, but you still had fun.

Halo: CE was an unbelievable accomplishment. It was both casual and competitive. It took skill to get really good at. but it was also fun to just mess around with your friends.

Then Halo 2 came around. You were so excited. Halo: CE was a wonderful game, so Halo 2 would be the same, if not better, right? You wait in line at midnight at Best Buy or EB Games. You can't wait any longer. Once the line starts moving, you get goosebumps. You are pumped for this game. You buy it, and get home as fast as you can. You pop it in your Xbox. You're thinking, "This is going to be awesome!", but after a while, you're a little disappointed. The campaign was not what you thought it was going to be. It was different from the E3 demonstration that was given months before. You try multiplayer. You like it. It was still fun to just invite your friends over and play. And the new ability to play on Xbox LIVE was phenomenal. It was a wonderful game, but there were some small problems. Some of the weapons you knew and loved were gone. But you did like the new weapons. The BR was nice, but was far inferior to the CE Pistol, and the SMG was not the same as the AR. But Dual Wielding was neat, and overall you liked the game. Not as much as you liked Halo: CE, though.

Now let's look at the other side. Halo 2 comes around. You were so excited. Halo: CE was a wonderful game, so Halo 2 would be the same, if not better, right? You wait in line at midnight at Best Buy or EB Games. You can't wait any longer. Once the line starts moving, you get goosebumps. You are pumped for this game. You buy it, and get home as fast as you can. You pop it in your Xbox. You're thinking, "This is going to be awesome!", but after a while, you're a little disappointed. The Multiplayer, though not being as competitive as it used to be, is still fun. There was little point in going to local LANs, because now there is XBL, but after a while the crappy connections started to piss you off. You still went to tournaments, and you still played your heart out. It was still so exciting to be playing Halo competitively, but something's missing. The fun. Halo 2 was highly competitive, no doubt about it, but it lost some of the competitiveness and fun that Halo: CE was all about. It wasn't the same.

Then in 2007, Halo 3 came out. Everyone was looking forward to this game. The Casual Players wanted another fun game, and the Competitive Gamers wanted a game that fixed the problems of Halo 2. Would Halo 3 do it?

For the Causal Players, Halo 3 was amazing. Multiplayer was still a lot of fun, the new weapons were awesome, and we got two new Modes: Forge, where you could build whatever map you wanted, and Theatre, where you could watch that insane No-Scope you got on Narrows. It was awesome. It was a great game, though you still thought that it wasn't as great as the other games. You could still invite your friends over, play for a while, you could even just mess around and not even try. The XBL had been improved, though the new ranking system was kinda weird and annoying. It was an overall fun game.

For the Competitive Gamers, Halo 3 was the worst one of the bunch. The competitiveness took a spike downward for the worst. The favorite weapon, the CE Pistol, was still gone, and the new favorite weapon, The H2 BR, was toned down. By a lot. It was still competitive, but not as much. Teams that had stuck together and destroyed at Halo 2 were breaking up and not doing well in Halo 3. Xbox Live was still laggy, but somewhat fun, and tournaments were a must to get better skill-wise.

As you see, each Halo game was great for the casual player. They were all fun to play, and fun to just mess around in. Inviting your friends over on a Friday Night, ordering a Pizza, and popping open a coke can was one of the most relaxing things the week had to offer. It was so much fun. For the Competitive Gamers, however, The Halo Series kept getting worse and worse. The best one competitive wise was the first one.

So it is not impossible to make a game that pleases both the Casual and the Competitive Players. Bungie did it with Halo: CE, the undoubtedly best game of the Halo series. The Casual Players liked Halo: CE, and the Competitive Gamers liked Halo: CE, so why not make another game with the same play-style like Halo: CE? This is what Bungie should do with Reach. They should make it play like Halo: CE. This way, they will be able to please both the Casual Players and Competitive Gamers. It's a win-win situation.

I'm sorry if some of my facts are wrong. I just wanted to get this message across. But most players that DID NOT START THE HALO SERIES WITH HALO 3, AND STARTED WITH THE FIRST GAME OF THE SERIES will agree that Halo: CE > Halo 2 > Halo 3


[Edited on 11.18.2009 4:16 PM PST]

  • 11.18.2009 4:05 PM PDT

Halo 3 is still very competitive, it was just different. People don't like change, thus bashing on Halo 3.

If bungie just made reach a clone of halo:CE, then it wouldnt be fun. We need new content.

  • 11.18.2009 4:26 PM PDT

Your in Bad Company.

Well I disagree completely, but you have right to your opinion.

But again, I don't agree with anything you said.

  • 11.18.2009 4:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tegernako
Well I disagree completely, but you have right to your opinion.

But again, I don't agree with anything you said.


^^Same^^

You should make this a poll, see what results you get.

  • 11.18.2009 4:45 PM PDT

i dont agree, but im a complete casual gamer. no xbox live for me. just playing campaign and LAN parties.. that's all

  • 11.18.2009 4:46 PM PDT
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All Halos were incredible, I do not want a remake of Halo 1 .. I love the speed of movement in Halo 3, Halo 1 mobility because it is obsolete.

  • 11.18.2009 4:49 PM PDT

Posted by: Tegernako
Well I disagree completely, but you have right to your opinion.

But again, I don't agree with anything you said.


Care to elaborate on why you disagree?

Posted by: WarmPanic
All Halos were incredible, I do not want a remake of Halo 1 .. I love the speed of movement in Halo 3, Halo 1 mobility because it is obsolete.


Well, I don't want a complete remake, I just want a game that plays similar.

[Edited on 11.18.2009 4:59 PM PST]

  • 11.18.2009 4:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

One aspect you seem to overlook, Op, is that the video game industry is all about money nowadays. You need to have that mentality if you want to survive in today's business world. Sure a good video game idea can get fans but you won't last long unless you are economically savvy. Bungie has made their games more casually oriented because that is the market demand right now, and it sure won't change any time soon.

In the days of Halo: CE, everyone thought video games were just for geeks and people with no lives. Now, there are more people playing than ever before and yesterday's shunners are today's fans.

When it comes down to it, as a business, would you rather please the majority or the minority?

Don't get me wrong, there are things that appeal to both casual and competitives. Forge, Customs, and theater are great examples of mixes between the two. The two can live in harmony and it is not the black and white "which side should we cater to" argument, but at the end of the day, Bungie is going to cater more towards the casuals, and that is how it always will be.

Don't be depressed though, think of all the strides Bungie went to to please the competitives (MLG playlist, team swat, snipers, various fixes on maps, one most notable, Snowbound) instead of pleasing the casuals even more.

  • 11.18.2009 5:07 PM PDT

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100% agree. The gameplay mechanics of Halo 1 NEED to return! Halo 3 is way too sluggish at times that it's just not even fun...


Halo 1 was fast and frantic.

  • 11.18.2009 5:09 PM PDT

Posted by: P3P5I
One aspect you seem to overlook, Op, is that the video game industry is all about money nowadays. You need to have that mentality if you want to survive in today's business world. Sure a good video game idea can get fans but you won't last long unless you are economically savvy. Bungie has made their games more casually oriented because that is the market demand right now, and it sure won't change any time soon.

In the days of Halo: CE, everyone thought video games were just for geeks and people with no lives. Now, there are more people playing than ever before and yesterday's shunners are today's fans.

When it comes down to it, as a business, would you rather please the majority or the minority?

Don't get me wrong, there are things that appeal to both casual and competitives. Forge, Customs, and theater are great examples of mixes between the two. The two can live in harmony and it is not the black and white "which side should we cater to" argument, but at the end of the day, Bungie is going to cater more towards the casuals, and that is how it always will be.

Don't be depressed though, think of all the strides Bungie went to to please the competitives (MLG playlist, team swat, snipers, various fixes on maps, one most notable, Snowbound) instead of pleasing the casuals even more.


But see, Bungie would make even more money if they catered to the needs of BOTH communities, which is possible. They can please both types of gamers if they wanted to, but i think they just don't want to. I know some people who refused to buy Halo 3 because they thought that Halo 2 was bad. I personally think that it's a simple solution to this MLG vs Casual problem.

  • 11.18.2009 5:16 PM PDT

Your in Bad Company.

Posted by: FlyinNinjaSqurl
Posted by: Tegernako
Well I disagree completely, but you have right to your opinion.

But again, I don't agree with anything you said.


Care to elaborate on why you disagree?

Posted by: WarmPanic
All Halos were incredible, I do not want a remake of Halo 1 .. I love the speed of movement in Halo 3, Halo 1 mobility because it is obsolete.


Well, I don't want a complete remake, I just want a game that plays similar.
Basicly, because I love all the Halo's in their own way. I think they all have their faults, just as they all have their pluses, they have their minuses. I can't really say much for multiplayer because I never had online until like June this year, but I remember having a blast on split screen on all of the halo's. I disagree because I think they all added something, reaching out to different audiences, people, etc to layer on top of one another.

  • 11.18.2009 5:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: FlyinNinjaSqurl
But see, Bungie would make even more money if they catered to the needs of BOTH communities, which is possible. They can please both types of gamers if they wanted to, but i think they just don't want to. I know some people who refused to buy Halo 3 because they thought that Halo 2 was bad. I personally think that it's a simple solution to this MLG vs Casual problem.

Lol you can't say they don't want to. The economic incentive as well as the fun factor of greatly pleasing both parties would be too good to pass up.

There are some inescapable trade offs between casual and competitive game play. The most famous I believe is the learning curve. If Bungie makes the learning curve too steep, it will make the competitives happy as many of the game's balances are there to favor people with more skill, but it will be a turn off for casuals. If they make the learning curve too easy, the game play will be too childish and every weapon will be extremely easy to use (note: H2 BR and H3 BR).

  • 11.18.2009 5:26 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: P3P5I
One aspect you seem to overlook, Op, is that the video game industry is all about money nowadays. You need to have that mentality if you want to survive in today's business world. Sure a good video game idea can get fans but you won't last long unless you are economically savvy. Bungie has made their games more casually oriented because that is the market demand right now, and it sure won't change any time soon.

In the days of Halo: CE, everyone thought video games were just for geeks and people with no lives. Now, there are more people playing than ever before and yesterday's shunners are today's fans.

When it comes down to it, as a business, would you rather please the majority or the minority?

Don't get me wrong, there are things that appeal to both casual and competitives. Forge, Customs, and theater are great examples of mixes between the two. The two can live in harmony and it is not the black and white "which side should we cater to" argument, but at the end of the day, Bungie is going to cater more towards the casuals, and that is how it always will be.

Don't be depressed though, think of all the strides Bungie went to to please the competitives (MLG playlist, team swat, snipers, various fixes on maps, one most notable, Snowbound) instead of pleasing the casuals even more.


I completely agree. But let's face it, any bungie made Halo game is going to sell. ALOT.

Furthermore, think of how large the skill gap was in Halo 1. It was huge. Competitive players had everything they wanted in that game. Along with that, casual players got a fast paced game of stickies only on Chiron, or effective medium range shotguns on Chill Out, or rockets only on Wizard.

The point I'm getting at is, a game with a competitive tilt can be extremely fun for casual players. Even with all the custom game options in Halo 3, I would argue that Halo CE had certian gameplay elements that made the game great for casual players, and Halo CE is better than Halo 3 as far as the casual gamer is concerned.

But if people are still concerned about it, Bungie could always do things like let us tweak indivudial weapons stats (damage, range, consistency), give us a weapon like the CE Pistol or let us alter player control physics in custom games. Casual players get to go into matchmaking and play whatever they want, and compeitive gamers can re-make they're Halo CE experience through custom game options.

Business minded, it makes more sense to appeal to every type of gamer, doesnt it?

  • 11.18.2009 5:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Business minded, it makes more sense to appeal to every type of gamer, doesnt it?

My second quote deals with this. There are things that can appeal to all gamers, but there are also things that you have to make trade offs for. These trade offs are just the natural decisions that go along with making a great game.

  • 11.18.2009 5:40 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Business minded, it makes more sense to appeal to every type of gamer, doesnt it?

My second quote deals with this. There are things that can appeal to all gamers, but there are also things that you have to make trade offs for. These trade offs are just the natural decisions that go along with making a great game.


Not at all. Halo CE gave both types of players what they wanted. Halo 2 and Halo 3 were completely one-dimensonal

  • 11.18.2009 5:48 PM PDT

Posted by: thewhorocker15
Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: thewhorocker15
Business minded, it makes more sense to appeal to every type of gamer, doesnt it?

My second quote deals with this. There are things that can appeal to all gamers, but there are also things that you have to make trade offs for. These trade offs are just the natural decisions that go along with making a great game.


Not at all. Halo CE gave both types of players what they wanted. Halo 2 and Halo 3 were completely one-dimensonal

Please note that Halo CE didn't have online multiplayer.

  • 11.18.2009 5:51 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

So? It's the gameplay that matters, not extra features

  • 11.18.2009 5:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: thewhorocker15
So? It's the gameplay that matters, not extra features

Well that is your opinion but I believe that Forge, Customs, and Theater were great bridges to please both crowds. And these were hardly extra features, as these are what separates Halo from the rest of the FPS games.

  • 11.18.2009 6:04 PM PDT

No holds bar killing!

Some of you say that Halo CE had no multiplayer, but I have played Halo Combat Evolved and Custom Edition's (the 2 CEs) multiplayer.







[Edited on 11.18.2009 6:06 PM PST]

  • 11.18.2009 6:05 PM PDT

Halo 1>Halo 2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Halo 3

Want to hear a funny joke? Marijuana prohibition.

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: thewhorocker15
So? It's the gameplay that matters, not extra features

Well that is your opinion but I believe that Forge, Customs, and Theater were great bridges to please both crowds. And these were hardly extra features, as these are what separates Halo from the rest of the FPS games.


Absolutely. Extra features like forge, online playability and theater are nice little treats for everyone. But at the end of the day, will those really make weapons consistent? Will they make player control physics good? Will they make the melee system behave any better?

  • 11.18.2009 6:47 PM PDT

Posted by: pes velox jjaro
Some of you say that Halo CE had no multiplayer, but I have played Halo Combat Evolved and Custom Edition's (the 2 CEs) multiplayer.


Halo: CE did have multiplayer, but not online multiplayer.

  • 11.18.2009 7:52 PM PDT