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Subject: So you say the BR is over powered?

I know there are subjects on this, but i wanted to follow the crowd...

So obviously alot of people say the BR is overpowered because you can get a 4 shot with it and kill someone, they want the Halo: CE pistol back. I liked that pistol but there is something they seem to be forgetting.

-Halo:CE Pistol was MUCH stronger then the current BR.

-The Pistol was toned down in Halo 2 when they added in the BR to replace it's role, it was still strong, but not as strong as the CE pistol.

-After this they then toned the BR down again, and added in a bigger spread, making it harder to get a 4 shot. Yet every BR hater still says they can 4shot easily.

Now, that's just some history behind the current BR, and how people basicly want the overpowered design of H alo 1 instead of a good current design. But, here are some "reasons" people use to try and validate the point of the BR being over powered.

-It is good at all ranges, you can kill someone from across map and right in your face easily.

-You can 4shot so easy, whoever gets the first shot wins.

-ZOMG MLG FANBOYZ USE IT!

1. By this logic, the sniper, rockets, carbine, and greandes are over powered. All can be used at any range well, some better then others. You ofcoarse know how to use the weapon to be able to use it at certain ranges, IE long range sniping and no scoping, cross map carbining, throw grenades at a certain curve, and long range BRing.

2. Most MLG pros don't get consistant 4shots, it is possible but its hard, you have to have good aim to get that final head shot, hence why the head is such a small area, it makes it harder to get a 4 shot. Most people get 5-7shots.

3.Even if there was no MLG, the BR would still be a favorite of alot of players. Like it or not its a good weapon, it gives a fair chance for a player to kill someone at a long range, which is a weapon we need when trying to take down a sniper.

With that said, it's time to burst BR Haters bubbles.

The carbine is actually better then the BR believe it or not. It can kill someone faster and since it only shoots 1 shot at a time, it does not waste bullets like the BR does.

How come no one ever talks about this? Because most players perfer UNSC weapons to covenant weapons, they never notice how the Carbine is better cause they don't use it. If your gonna call the BR over powered, then the carbine automatically has to be over powered.

Too many want a pistol that works like a rifle, they are willing to trade a rifle that works like a rifle for it. (If you quote that part I'll love you forever.)

Basicly what i'm saying is the BR fills it's role, it does what it should do, MOST people don't like it cause they aren't good with it, got beat by someone who was, or just suck at aiming. If you call the BR over powered, you calling a couple of weapons over powered.

Disclaimer- I don't care what your service record says. it's not a valid excuse against you being bad with a BR. This is just to show how people want an Overpowered weapon, because they think a weapon that is weaker then it is over powered. Post your thoughts, your disagreements, whatever. Just don't try to act high and mighty.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 6:48 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 6:47 AM PDT

_______
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Posted by: TS AGRawr2
I know there are subjects on this, but i wanted to follow the crowd...

So obviously alot of people say the BR is overpowered because you can get a 4 shot with it and kill someone, they want the Halo: CE pistol back. I liked that pistol but there is something they seem to be forgetting.

-Halo:CE Pistol was MUCH stronger then the current BR.

-The Pistol was toned down in Halo 2 when they added in the BR to replace it's role, it was still strong, but not as strong as the CE pistol.

-After this they then toned the BR down again, and added in a bigger spread, making it harder to get a 4 shot. Yet every BR hater still says they can 4shot easily.

Now, that's just some history behind the current BR, and how people basicly want the overpowered design of H alo 1 instead of a good current design. But, here are some "reasons" people use to try and validate the point of the BR being over powered.

-It is good at all ranges, you can kill someone from across map and right in your face easily.

-You can 4shot so easy, whoever gets the first shot wins.

-ZOMG MLG FANBOYZ USE IT!

1. By this logic, the sniper, rockets, carbine, and greandes are over powered. All can be used at any range well, some better then others. You ofcoarse know how to use the weapon to be able to use it at certain ranges, IE long range sniping and no scoping, cross map carbining, throw grenades at a certain curve, and long range BRing.

2. Most MLG pros don't get consistant 4shots, it is possible but its hard, you have to have good aim to get that final head shot, hence why the head is such a small area, it makes it harder to get a 4 shot. Most people get 5-7shots.

3.Even if there was no MLG, the BR would still be a favorite of alot of players. Like it or not its a good weapon, it gives a fair chance for a player to kill someone at a long range, which is a weapon we need when trying to take down a sniper.

With that said, it's time to burst BR Haters bubbles.

The carbine is actually better then the BR believe it or not. It can kill someone faster and since it only shoots 1 shot at a time, it does not waste bullets like the BR does.

How come no one ever talks about this? Because most players perfer UNSC weapons to covenant weapons, they never notice how the Carbine is better cause they don't use it. If your gonna call the BR over powered, then the carbine automatically has to be over powered.

Too many want a pistol that works like a rifle, they are willing to trade a rifle that works like a rifle for it. (If you quote that part I'll love you forever.)

Basicly what i'm saying is the BR fills it's role, it does what it should do, MOST people don't like it cause they aren't good with it, got beat by someone who was, or just suck at aiming. If you call the BR over powered, you calling a couple of weapons over powered.

Disclaimer- I don't care what your service record says. it's not a valid excuse against you being bad with a BR. This is just to show how people want an Overpowered weapon, because they think a weapon that is weaker then it is over powered. Post your thoughts, your disagreements, whatever. Just don't try to act high and mighty.


k.

  • 11.20.2009 6:55 AM PDT
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perfectly worded, now lets hope the br haters can understand this

  • 11.20.2009 6:57 AM PDT

Posted by: sixten swe
the BR isn't over powered...


That's what I said...

  • 11.20.2009 7:28 AM PDT

You have to be pretty skilled with a battle rifle and it would still be very rare to get a 4 hit kill with the BR.

  • 11.20.2009 7:37 AM PDT

Tag 'm and Bag 'm

The problem with the BR is that, it can be used at close range, medium range and long range without having any problem.

- Without the lucky no-scope it beats the sniper at long range, because the rifle will take the sniper out of it's zoom.
- When I say close range I mean weapons like the AR,PR,SMG. Not the point blank range weapons like the shotgun,mauler,energy sword.
- The Carbine is only good if you have a fast finger trigger, and you are at medium to close range. The Carbine bullets have a large spread when firing quickly, so it's less affective at long range as the BR. Also the BR spread affects only 2/3 of the bullets, 1 goes dead center and the other spread, these still do damage, they're not wasted.
- The CE Magnum was strong indeed, but it fired more slowly then the BR and took more shots to kill(I think it was 5-6 minimum). Because of it's fire rate, it was more easally counterd in close range combat.

I don't hate the BR, I use it often, but I think it can be balanced more.

  • 11.20.2009 7:41 AM PDT

Posted by: Sgt Bash X77
The problem with the BR is that, it can be used at close range, medium range and long range without having any problem.

- Without the lucky no-scope it beats the sniper at long range, because the rifle will take the sniper out of it's zoom.
- When I say close range I mean weapons like the AR,PR,SMG. Not the point blank range weapons like the shotgun,mauler,energy sword.
- The Carbine is only good if you have a fast finger trigger, and you are at medium to close range. The Carbine bullets have a large spread when firing quickly, so it's less affective at long range as the BR. Also the BR spread affects only 2/3 of the bullets, 1 goes dead center and the other spread, these still do damage, they're not wasted.
- The CE Magnum was strong indeed, but it fired more slowly then the BR and took more shots to kill(I think it was 5-6 minimum). Because of it's fire rate, it was more easally counterd in close range combat.

I don't hate the BR, I use it often, but I think it can be balanced more.


I thought it was 3-5 shots with the pistol to get a kill across map? Either way still way too strong for a pistol.

If 2 of the 3 bullets miss the head they still do damage? I personally have never seen that to be true unless it hit the hit box, but it still can miss entirely.

The AR and PR can beat the BR close range if you know how to use them. The AR is like what, 6 bullets and a beat down for a kill? shooting takes all of 1-2 seconds, beat down takes 1-2. If you know how to do this then you can easily take out a BR close range, its all about knowing how to use the weapon.

The thing about the BR is that its easy to use it decently, sure.

But its hard to use good. Like when being shot by a BR and your using a sniper, you need to know how to use the sniper to get the kill, like ducking under cover, popping up and quickly taking the shot.

Also weather or not a player has a fast trigger finger does not matter. Its the face that it can kill faster then a BR, and even tho it has a large spread, it still hits most of the time in my book. Use the same tactic as the BR, most shots in the body, the kill shot in the head.

  • 11.20.2009 7:50 AM PDT

Posted by: TS AGRawr2
Posted by: Sgt Bash X77
The problem with the BR is that, it can be used at close range, medium range and long range without having any problem.

- Without the lucky no-scope it beats the sniper at long range, because the rifle will take the sniper out of it's zoom.
- When I say close range I mean weapons like the AR,PR,SMG. Not the point blank range weapons like the shotgun,mauler,energy sword.
- The Carbine is only good if you have a fast finger trigger, and you are at medium to close range. The Carbine bullets have a large spread when firing quickly, so it's less affective at long range as the BR. Also the BR spread affects only 2/3 of the bullets, 1 goes dead center and the other spread, these still do damage, they're not wasted.
- The CE Magnum was strong indeed, but it fired more slowly then the BR and took more shots to kill(I think it was 5-6 minimum). Because of it's fire rate, it was more easally counterd in close range combat.

I don't hate the BR, I use it often, but I think it can be balanced more.


I thought it was 3-5 shots with the pistol to get a kill across map? Either way still way too strong for a pistol.

If 2 of the 3 bullets miss the head they still do damage? I personally have never seen that to be true unless it hit the hit box, but it still can miss entirely.

The AR and PR can beat the BR close range if you know how to use them. The AR is like what, 6 bullets and a beat down for a kill? shooting takes all of 1-2 seconds, beat down takes 1-2. If you know how to do this then you can easily take out a BR close range, its all about knowing how to use the weapon.

The thing about the BR is that its easy to use it decently, sure.

But its hard to use good. Like when being shot by a BR and your using a sniper, you need to know how to use the sniper to get the kill, like ducking under cover, popping up and quickly taking the shot.

Also weather or not a player has a fast trigger finger does not matter. Its the face that it can kill faster then a BR, and even tho it has a large spread, it still hits most of the time in my book. Use the same tactic as the BR, most shots in the body, the kill shot in the head.


I still find killing people difficult with the BR on occasions. I believe it does take skill. i remember i noted my first 4 shot some time ago. I was so happy because i had never done that before.
Congrats you haz wun INT3RN3TZ!!11

  • 11.20.2009 7:53 AM PDT
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Proud frenchie, elite fan, anthro artist not hellbent on yiff convention/pics/whatever, mature and intelligent forum guy, 4chaner, halo 2 lover and halo 3 hater.

I like how highlighted the fact the HCE pistol was a lot stronger than the BR, yet everybody want it back because the (weaker) weapon replacing it is "ovarpowrd".

that's something that has always fascinated me.
"omfg dis wapon is so op!!!!!!!!!! plz put a stronger weapon instead thx"...

  • 11.20.2009 7:55 AM PDT

Tag 'm and Bag 'm

Posted by: TS AGRawr2
I thought it was 3-5 shots with the pistol to get a kill across map? Either way still way too strong for a pistol.

If 2 of the 3 bullets miss the head they still do damage? I personally have never seen that to be true unless it hit the hit box, but it still can miss entirely.

The AR and PR can beat the BR close range if you know how to use them. The AR is like what, 6 bullets and a beat down for a kill? shooting takes all of 1-2 seconds, beat down takes 1-2. If you know how to do this then you can easily take out a BR close range, its all about knowing how to use the weapon.

The thing about the BR is that its easy to use it decently, sure.

But its hard to use good. Like when being shot by a BR and your using a sniper, you need to know how to use the sniper to get the kill, like ducking under cover, popping up and quickly taking the shot.

Also weather or not a player has a fast trigger finger does not matter. Its the face that it can kill faster then a BR, and even tho it has a large spread, it still hits most of the time in my book. Use the same tactic as the BR, most shots in the body, the kill shot in the head.


-Most people who fire the BR are not aiming for the head, just below the head on the chest(3shots) and the shields are down and then only 1 headshot is required.
-The people with a BR will not come in melee range often when they do they lose, indeed.
-Play Swat or MLG and take a carbine, mostly the BR will win.

  • 11.20.2009 7:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Sgt Bash X77
-Most people who fire the BR are not aiming for the head, just below the head on the chest(3shots) and the shields are down and then only 1 headshot is required.
-The people with a BR will not come in melee range often when they do they lose, indeed.
-Play Swat or MLG and take a carbine, mostly the BR will win.


Lol actually I do play swat and MLG every now and then with the carbine. In swat I do prety good with a carbine. And I play as a spartan which makes it even better. And in MLG when i use it, i tend to get kills aswell, i just perfer the BR cause its what I like, so i use it more, plus its easier to use the one you spawn with in swat because chances of death are alot higher, most people don't wanna get a weapon to juse die with it and spawn without it in a small period of time.

And your statement about 3body shots and 1 head shot is right. Still even with the carbine, get mainly body shots then finish with the head, the spread wouldn't effect that outcome much other then the final shot, which you could pause a second and fire which would pretty much elimnate any huge spread.

the AR and PR are used for close range. The AR sucks at anything but close range in my book, accuracy is horrible, by the time I shoot the full clip I could run up and kill the guy unless he knows to run back, which is easy to fix, just go around a corner and hit him when he chases, like oh so many players do.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 8:03 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 8:02 AM PDT
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-Most people who fire the BR are not aiming for the head, just below the head on the chest(3shots) and the shields are down and then only 1 headshot is required.
-The people with a BR will not come in melee range often when they do they lose, indeed.

your complaining because someone knows how to use a weapon? If you have an AR and are fighting someone with a BR, why not try and improve your strafe, or try jumping? Doing things like that makes it more difficult to get hit. Of course if you run in a straight line, even a guy with a magnum can take you out. The AR can win if the used properly

-Play Swat or MLG and take a carbine, mostly the BR will win.

In SWAT the BR is better because it is a burst shot, and you can swipe across the head, but in MLG the BR is equivalent to the carbine. The only reason the BR is used more is because people are used to how it shoots and feels.

  • 11.20.2009 8:09 AM PDT
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Don't send me group invites unless i know you. pl0x.

Posted by: Sgt Bash X77
The problem with the BR is that, it can be used at close range, medium range and long range without having any problem.

- Without the lucky no-scope it beats the sniper at long range, because the rifle will take the sniper out of it's zoom.
- When I say close range I mean weapons like the AR,PR,SMG. Not the point blank range weapons like the shotgun,mauler,energy sword.
- The Carbine is only good if you have a fast finger trigger, and you are at medium to close range. The Carbine bullets have a large spread when firing quickly, so it's less affective at long range as the BR. Also the BR spread affects only 2/3 of the bullets, 1 goes dead center and the other spread, these still do damage, they're not wasted.
- The CE Magnum was strong indeed, but it fired more slowly then the BR and took more shots to kill(I think it was 5-6 minimum). Because of it's fire rate, it was more easally counterd in close range combat.

I don't hate the BR, I use it often, but I think it can be balanced more.


Here, I'll take apart your post:

-The Sniper isn't meant to be used in close range. It's called a Sniper Rifle for a reason. It has a small reticule for a reason. Using this logic, it's easy to say that the AR is overpowered because it takes the Sniper out of its scope and consistently kills the Sniper user.

-Oh, the BR can kill in the range where the SMG, AR and PR are used, but I guarantee that on average, AR, SMG and PR users will kill a BR user at this range more times than people on these forums will claim.

-The Carbine and BR are about the same. The Carbine is better at cleaning up kills, rather than taking shields down, hence the single shot, a magazine that can kill a max of 2 players, and its trigger spamming characteristic as a semi-automatic weapon.

-The CE Magnum could kill in 3 shots. However, consistently getting a 3 shot was difficult, so you would see 4,5 and 6 shots much more often. It could be countered in CE because all of the other weapons absolutely dominated in their respective ranges. An AR + melee kill was much faster in CE than in Halo 3, the Shotgun could actually kill at a respectable distance, et cetera.

Personally, if people are having so many problems with the BR, then make the other weapons more powerful. There's more ways to nerf a weapon than nerfing said weapon itself.

  • 11.20.2009 9:22 AM PDT

I do want a BR, it's just that I don't like how it is now.

To me, the power isn't the problem. The problem is that there is too much ammo in each clip, and it's just too common on a map.

I consider the BR (And the Crbine) as a Sub-Power Weapon, meaning that it's too strong and versatile to be a mainstream weapon, but not strong enough to be a power weapon.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 9:38 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 9:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: Plasma3150
I do want a BR, it's just that I don't like how it is now.

To me, the power isn't the problem. The problem is that there is too much ammo in each clip, and it's just too common.


We can treat each burst from the BR as an individual shot, since 3 bullets are shot at the same time. Math comes into play here:

3/36 = 1/12

Assuming all 3 bullets in a single burst hit the target, a BR's clip is equivalent to 12. It's not that large.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 9:48 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 9:38 AM PDT

Posted by: Mythic 22 T
Posted by: Plasma3150
I do want a BR, it's just that I don't like how it is now.

To me, the power isn't the problem. The problem is that there is too much ammo in each clip, and it's just too common.


Let's say that the BR shot single bullets instead of bursts. Math comes into play here:

3/36 = 1/12

Assuming all 3 bullets in a single burst hit the target, a BR's clip is equivalent to 12. It's not that large.

That is enough to take out a whole team. Now there is, like, 8-10 on a map.

  • 11.20.2009 9:40 AM PDT
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Don't send me group invites unless i know you. pl0x.

Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Mythic 22 T
Posted by: Plasma3150
I do want a BR, it's just that I don't like how it is now.

To me, the power isn't the problem. The problem is that there is too much ammo in each clip, and it's just too common.


Let's say that the BR shot single bullets instead of bursts. Math comes into play here:

3/36 = 1/12

Assuming all 3 bullets in a single burst hit the target, a BR's clip is equivalent to 12. It's not that large.

That is enough to take out a whole team. Now there is, like, 8-10 on a map.


What are you talking about? I'm arguing clip size, not how many people a BR can kill.

A BR kills with minimum (remember, this isn't guaranteed to happen all of the time) 4 bursts. Using the ratios established previously, you can still kill a max of 3 people per clip.

4 bursts = 12 bullets of the 36 bullets in the whole clip. 36/12 gives you 3 kills with the BR.

You can only kill more than 3 people with the BR in a single clip if an enemy has less than full shields. The average team game has 4 players/5 players per team. If they all have full shields, how can you make the claim that a single BR can kill a whole team?

Most combat in Halo takes place in mid-range. That's why you'll see about 1-6 BRs on the small-to mid sized maps in Halo 3 (on average, there are exceptions such as Isolation and Construct) and 10+ BRs on larger maps.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 10:41 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 9:57 AM PDT

I would just like to say that the reason I do not like many weapons in Halo 3 (as well as Halo 2) is because they are ineffective for taking down more than one target. Pretty much every non power weapon besides the BR has trouble taking out more than one enemy in a row without reloading. I dislike how I have to duck into cover to reload my weapon when there is 1 or 2 more targets in front of me to fight. Bungie needs to bump up the kills per clip in general to match weapons like the BR and Sniper rifle.

  • 11.20.2009 9:58 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: TS AGRawr2


For the record, I've never thought of it as overpowered.

But good thread.

  • 11.20.2009 10:03 AM PDT

The BR has already had its makeover in Reach. If what ive heard is correct *cough leak*, it's now got 1 shot burst instead of 3. As it was FIRST implemented back before Halo 2 came out. Who knows why Bungie switched.... I welcome the change actually.

  • 11.20.2009 10:31 AM PDT

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Posted by: AquaBlader
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Posted by: Bricypoo Nobody quotes me and puts me in their signatures It makes me sad ... :(
My third montage!

You pretty much hit on every misconception of BR. The players that dislike the BR constantly claim that it's "to easy to use" because it's a four shot kill weapon. Which is not only ridiculous but flat out wrong. Yes it is possible to four shot with the BR however this only occurs more often with the MLG settings. In the default settings every single bullet needs to hit.

When you factor things in like player movement, the BR spread, individual hand/eye cooridination, network latency and so on. On default settings a true four shot is rare if not out right improbable.

This thread has an even better explination why true four shots on default settings RARELY happens.

  • 11.20.2009 11:41 AM PDT

I'm not entirely saying that the br is overpowered but to be honest I'm just kind of tired of it. It just seems over used and i just want reach to be a fresh game not just a graphics upgrade.

  • 11.20.2009 12:44 PM PDT

HAY BEY BEH HAY BEY BEH HAY
GURLS SEY GURLS SEY

There's other ways to keep the series fresh without having to remove the Battle Rifle. Something as simple as reducing the influence of auto-aim or even having the option to remove it all together would certainly make ignorant people think twice about criticizing its power. The only real changes I want to the BR is to eliminate the awful burst fire, which would also eliminate the spread. Either that, or make it give you the option to single shot it or go full auto at the cost of having horrible accuracy.

The real problem isn't the Battle Rifle at all. It's the fact that you start with it. To be honest, the Assault Rifle should be your starting weapon, but it should work like a God damn assault rifle! That being said, give it some range, the current accuracy at full auto, increase the accuracy for when you burst it and lower the max amount of ammo you can carry and you'll have a decent starting weapon. Basically, a BR without a scope, but the same amount of power of the current AR, but only effective at Mid to Close range instead of Mid, Close, and Long range like the BR. That way, you'll still have some sort of desire to acquire a BR, but you'll at least have something decent to start with.

  • 11.20.2009 1:29 PM PDT

Halo 3 Midnight Party MEMBER

if you ported the ce pistol into halo 3 it would -blam!- the br no questions... if you are wanting the pistol back and the br is overpowered then your going to be very upset when it happens.

  • 11.20.2009 1:42 PM PDT

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