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Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin Reach! (The Re-skin thread)

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.


Hey B.net. How you doing?

I noticed that, similar to my own, there are a BAJILLION threads up about everyone's similarly awesome ideas about what would be awesome to drive/shoot with/stand on.

However, I notice that 60% of these threads are other forum-goers simply complaining that it would ruin balance. So, here I am, making a thread to try and explain why I think it doesn't HAVE to ruin balance 75% of the time.

I'll use two examples that are probably re-occurring (Because I like them or otherwise) that can show you what I mean.

Motorcycle - Yeah, pretty basic right? but you could slip just bit more personality into a screenshot and not to mention feel generally awesome.

The problem is, how do you incorporate this without risking harming the existing balance? Easy! You insert it as a Re-skin.

Take a Mongoose, Re-skin it to look like a Motorcycle and BAM. It'll drive/sound/die like one, but you still got your motorcycle and the game's balance can't be harmed because of it.


Next:

Katana/Sword of any type - Saw this coming right? Right.

At least a pocketful of the community would welcome more things to stab with, however simply adding a NEW melee weapon is both pretty unnecessary and could easily give balance a toss.

So you just re-skin an Energy Sword. It will Behave/Sound/Kill exactly like an energy sword. No balance harmed and you get that shiny silver Katana to camp the bubble shield with.



There you have it. When I see a weapon/vehicle/anything idea thread, I got out of my way to consider whether or not this item could simply be added as a re-skin of something ALREADY there for us to use. You can't harm balance if it only LOOKS different, or rather, it could only ever harm balance as much as we convince ourselves the base weapon does.


Edit: You guys pointed out that I failed to be entirely clear and I apologize. When you read this, please realize I also believe all of these objects, like the existing 7-wood, should only be available as a purely optional object in Forge mode. I in no way desire anyone to think these need to be in matchmaking. I just wanted to be clear that it was possible to take the chance of an idea being 'Unbalanced' out by seeing if it is possible to simply add it as a different version of what exists. Thanks.


Note: Before you tell me that this wouldn't work, I point out that this type of thing already exists in Halo 3's forge mode. The 7-wood golf club is a Re-skinned gravity hammer. So it does/can work.





[Edited on 11.20.2009 11:45 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 10:32 AM PDT
Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin game balance!

I believe the 'Gauss hog' needs to have an equivalent. One shot kill on ground infantry...What covanent vehicle can do that?

  • 11.20.2009 10:34 AM PDT

yay you posted it lol. and yeah, agree

  • 11.20.2009 10:36 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: spreadin cheaks
I believe the 'Gauss hog' needs to have an equivalent. One shot kill on ground infantry...What covanent vehicle can do that?


The Wraith. Nyuck nyuck nyuck.

I suppose you are absolutely right. But this isn't necessarily the aim of my thread.

I want to promote a little open mindedness on this forum. People are too quick to assume every neat idea means they expect it to be in Matchmaking as a new, independent weapon.

I believe, instead of arguing about a weapon that will almost assuredly never exist, we should focus as posters on suggesting BETTER ways to insert ideas we see into the game without any harm to the balance of the game.

How about you? Do you have something you have always wanted in a custom game? You know, just for the heck of it. For fun when you goof off.

For me? I want a BIG PINK Foam Finger. Instead of wanting it as its own weapon, I just want them to Re-skin the Energy Sword to be a Foam Finger.

  • 11.20.2009 10:38 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: ubercow92
yay you posted it lol. and yeah, agree


Yeah man, I hadn't made a thread about it. Even though I probably should have.

We'll see if we can get something going. I really think this entire forum could benefit from thinking like this a little more often.

Sure, you get people who make up terrible ideas with horrible balancing in mind, but people should just ignore and not post if they hate the thread.

When you see something that could have promise though? I think it should be approached politely. Try and discuss it out and make the idea something that works.

Too many people who fancy themselves intelligent also make themselves come off as WAY too serious sometimes.

  • 11.20.2009 10:41 AM PDT

Posted by: Phynixblack
Posted by: spreadin cheaks
I believe the 'Gauss hog' needs to have an equivalent. One shot kill on ground infantry...What covanent vehicle can do that?


The Wraith. Nyuck nyuck nyuck.

I suppose you are absolutely right. But this isn't necessarily the aim of my thread.

I want to promote a little open mindedness on this forum. People are too quick to assume every neat idea means they expect it to be in Matchmaking as a new, independent weapon.

I believe, instead of arguing about a weapon that will almost assuredly never exist, we should focus as posters on suggesting BETTER ways to insert ideas we see into the game without any harm to the balance of the game.

How about you? Do you have something you have always wanted in a custom game? You know, just for the heck of it. For fun when you goof off.

For me? I want a BIG PINK Foam Finger. Instead of wanting it as its own weapon, I just want them to Re-skin the Energy Sword to be a Foam Finger.


Yeah the Halo 2 spectre can make a return as the equivalent to the UNCs 'Gauss hog vehicle type. Hows that for open mindedness douche?

  • 11.20.2009 10:44 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: spreadin cheaks
Yeah the Halo 2 spectre can make a return as the equivalent to the UNCs 'Gauss hog vehicle type. Hows that for open mindedness douche?


Douche? Have I said anything to make fun of you? I most definitely wasn't flaming.

lol, I think you have the wrong idea. Did you read my whole OP?

  • 11.20.2009 10:46 AM PDT

im thinking an AR that looks like a supersoaker

  • 11.20.2009 10:49 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: ubercow92
im thinking an AR that looks like a supersoaker


Lol, that would be neat. Maybe make the shots blue in color.

  • 11.20.2009 10:49 AM PDT

Plekpedia - The most epic site in the history of ever.

Um... WOW.


That would work for a few things, but for every new weapon and vehicle? That'd be terrible.

  • 11.20.2009 10:51 AM PDT

Posted by: Phynixblack
Posted by: spreadin cheaks
Yeah the Halo 2 spectre can make a return as the equivalent to the UNCs 'Gauss hog vehicle type. Hows that for open mindedness douche?


Douche? Have I said anything to make fun of you? I most definitely wasn't flaming.

lol, I think you have the wrong idea. Did you read my whole OP?



The whole simple minded thing wasn't necessary was it?

  • 11.20.2009 10:51 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: spreadin cheaks
Posted by: Phynixblack
Posted by: spreadin cheaks
Yeah the Halo 2 spectre can make a return as the equivalent to the UNCs 'Gauss hog vehicle type. Hows that for open mindedness douche?


Douche? Have I said anything to make fun of you? I most definitely wasn't flaming.

lol, I think you have the wrong idea. Did you read my whole OP?



The whole simple minded thing wasn't necessary was it?


OH WOW. I'm sorry man, I didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I was just trying to make a general statement.

I was only trying to explain mah thread a little better. Didn't mean to insult you.

  • 11.20.2009 10:53 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: Pokezilla Linked
Um... WOW.


That would work for a few things, but for every new weapon and vehicle? That'd be terrible.


I think you misunderstand a little.

I don't mean they ALL need it. I mean that about 75% of the time, anything you could want in the game can probably be used as a simple Re-skin instead of requiring it to have an independant weapon/vehicle.

Katana = Energy Sword
Motorcycle = Mongoose

Or Golf Cart = Mongoose.

See? Funny, out there things can usually be BEST included as reskins. I would like to bring this fact to the attention of as many people as I can so that it generates less flaming in future idea threads and more actual...well...Ideas.

do I think they all need it? Naw. But it is easier to be a beneficial part of a thread if you are doing nothing but explaining why an idea is terrible for gameplay or doesn't fit the canon. I've seen many threads that start looking like this:

"It'd be awesome to have a [Insert idea] in Reach!"

With that said, that idea isn't demanding an independent weapon. It isn't an attack on the canon. It is an idea that is only partly finish in some respects.

Most people tend to react with "No." and "That's stupid" or a lengthy explanation of balance and Canon. It never fails. But it doesn't need to be that way.

  • 11.20.2009 10:59 AM PDT

(1)the only way to escape death is death itself.
(2) pwn the world bungie
(3) never give in to BS, your always going good in your own way.

yeah, i don't think bungie should make re-skins for new vehicles. Bungie should try to as much as they can new so we the gamers and probably their biggest fans can get a all new experience, instead of re-skins

  • 11.20.2009 11:02 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: ColeKiller
yeah, i don't think bungie should make re-skins for new vehicles. Bungie should try to as much as they can new so we the gamers and probably their biggest fans can get a all new experience, instead of re-skins


Aye, I agree whole-heartedly.

However, in some cases (Golf cart ect...) the items just CAN'T fit into the Halo world independently.

This is the sort of thing I wanna talk about. Like the Katana for instance.

I participated in a thread were the OP literally said "It would just be cool to finally be able to use a Katana in the game instead of only being able to wear it."

He got flamed for four pages about daring to risk Canon because "How would a steel sword cut an Elite?"

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that way about something that doesn't HAVE to follow canon. It could just as easily exist in the same way the Golf Club does. There for the people who want to be random.

This isn't a "Bungie, stop what you are doing and do this thread". Just a "Don't you all think it would be nicer to approach from this angle instead of carrying flamethrowers into every thread."

  • 11.20.2009 11:09 AM PDT

Sent the map 11/27. Hope it all goes well.

I don't think your re-skin idea won't work.

A motorcycle is skinny compared to an atv. What if I try and drive through a door I think could make it in? It would kinda make me want to hate it because the game is telling me that it's wider than what I see. You just slowed me down; I no longer want to use it because I could end up being caught in other places. Give me the mongoose, or an actual motorbike.

Re-skins is one thing, but making one vehicle look like something completely different and still have the same hitbox would make that idea less appealing to gamers. Just add in a different vehicle.

  • 11.20.2009 11:13 AM PDT
Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin Reach! (The Re-skin thread)

FYI
To skin something as far as 3d goes, is to create a new texture.

IE The vehicles on avalanche have different "skins" but are the exact same model.

What the OP talking about is not skinning, but a whole new model.

Now, adding more models(and skins too), puts more strain on the 360's system resources. Avalance got away with this because it replaced the previous textures completely.

However, a sword match, for example, with 15 different swords and the animation to go with them, will inherently use more memory.

I've seen Halo 3 and how it pushes system resources to hard. On a HDTV things in the distance aren't even fully drawn. Very noticable on snowbound, for example, with the purple covenant weapon crates. They can be drawn by a bunch of dots until you are close enough.

I'm all for variety, but not at the cost of system performance.

Also, simply replacing the Mongoose model with a motorcycle would be lame. Why? Because of the physics involved. A motorcycle that doesn't tilt when going around corners and such would look ridiculous. You would have to add an entry in the physics portion and change animations too, for the character and the vehicle.

Again, I'm all for variety, but I would prefer quality over quantity.

  • 11.20.2009 11:16 AM PDT

There's a difference from unbalancing something and something stupid.

  • 11.20.2009 11:18 AM PDT
Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin game balance!

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: PainRelief1
I don't think your re-skin idea won't work.

A motorcycle is skinny compared to an atv. What if I try and drive through a door I think could make it in? It would kinda make me want to hate it because the game is telling me that it's wider than what I see. You just slowed me down; I no longer want to use it because I could end up being caught in other places. Give me the mongoose, or an actual motorbike.

Re-skins is one thing, but making one vehicle look like something completely different and still have the same hitbox would make that idea less appealing to gamers. Just add in a different vehicle.


A golf club is tiny compared to the gravity hammer.

I understand were you are coming from, but I don't think that it would matter too much.

Would it be far fetched? Yeah. But it doesn't have to be perfect to be pretty cool. Halo is good at proving that.

  • 11.20.2009 11:26 AM PDT
Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin Reach! (The Re-skin thread)

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: All of humanity
There's a difference from unbalancing something and something stupid.


Yes. Quite.

There is also a difference between you and I. That difference being, at least I try when I troll. You just type whatever rubbish comes to mind.

Read and try to understand or don't post.

  • 11.20.2009 11:28 AM PDT

Posted by: Phynixblack

I'm not trolling, your motorcycle idea would be horrible. A motorcycle should not drive like an ATV. There is a mod for Halo CE which includes a motorcycle, I've tried driving and it's just terrible. The sword idea is just pointless.

  • 11.20.2009 11:35 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: AEon Xao
FYI
To skin something as far as 3d goes, is to create a new texture.

IE The vehicles on avalanche have different "skins" but are the exact same model.

What the OP talking about is not skinning, but a whole new model.

Now, adding more models(and skins too), puts more strain on the 360's system resources. Avalance got away with this because it replaced the previous textures completely.

However, a sword match, for example, with 15 different swords and the animation to go with them, will inherently use more memory.

I've seen Halo 3 and how it pushes system resources to hard. On a HDTV things in the distance aren't even fully drawn. Very noticable on snowbound, for example, with the purple covenant weapon crates. They can be drawn by a bunch of dots until you are close enough.

I'm all for variety, but not at the cost of system performance.

Also, simply replacing the Mongoose model with a motorcycle would be lame. Why? Because of the physics involved. A motorcycle that doesn't tilt when going around corners and such would look ridiculous. You would have to add an entry in the physics portion and change animations too, for the character and the vehicle.

Again, I'm all for variety, but I would prefer quality over quantity.


I used the motorcycle as an example because it was simply something someone got flamed for once before. Sure it would look ridiculous, but I figure at least trying to suggest ways it could work is much better then a thread full of people arguing about ridiculously unrelated things like the Canon involved. If somebody suggests something outrageous it is because they desire just that, something outrageous.

I wouldn't parade around with my little pipe dream about getting a Slice'N'Dice with a Pink foam finger if I spent all my time comparing every cool thing that came to mind to what exists.


Also, thank you for correcting me. I was within the understanding that the 7-wood item was simply a Re-skin of the gravity hammer.

Also, I don't think the quality of the game would suffer at all. These things would be in Forge, you would have to add them. They would be totally non-existent in Campaign and Matchmaking and wouldn't have to exist in Customs unless you deigned to use them.

Similar to the Firebomb grenades and the Sentinel Beam, it would be up to the players to risk a little lag.

  • 11.20.2009 11:35 AM PDT
Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin game balance!

Sent the map 11/27. Hope it all goes well.

Golf Club- Available only in forge, such as the Hornet with Rockets.

You want something added into the multiplayer, and from the info you told us, you want it in matchmaking.

It would matter. I'm stuck in front of a door that the motorbike looks like it can, and I see a guy running up to me with a shotgun when he should be lodged between the wheel and axle. It will be the most awesome looking piece of crap I've ever rode on.

Again, add a completely different vehicle. Don't reskin the mongoose to look like something its not. It's an ATV, not a motorcycle.

On top of that, why make a clone? Unless its a nerfed version of a more powerful vehicle, it shouldn't exist. I want quality, not quantity.


Posted by: Phynixblack

A golf club is tiny compared to the gravity hammer.

I understand were you are coming from, but I don't think that it would matter too much.

Would it be far fetched? Yeah. But it doesn't have to be perfect to be pretty cool. Halo is good at proving that.

  • 11.20.2009 11:35 AM PDT
Subject: Weapons/Vehicle ideas that CAN'T ruin Reach! (The Re-skin thread)

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: All of humanity
Posted by: Phynixblack

I'm not trolling, your motorcycle idea would be horrible. A motorcycle should not drive like an ATV. There is a mod for Halo CE which includes a motorcycle, I've tried driving and it's just terrible. The sword idea is just pointless.


I posted about the Motorcycle in the post above this one. I used it because I've seen it before. Honestly, I would prefer a Golf Cart to the Motorbike.

The Sword thing is pointless? Well I suppose that is entirely up to each person.

How about the 7-wood? IT doesn't do anything all that amazing really, it just exists for a little random. Player who want it can use it, those who could care less never have to bother with it. Same concept with the sword suggestion. It is there in case somebody wants to vary things a bit.

I also figure things like this would add some extra bits to the Screenshot and Machinima areas of the community, which can't hurt.

Also, I think I've seen the Custom Edition Bike. I've never gotten to use it though.

  • 11.20.2009 11:39 AM PDT

There is nothing wrong with Halo:Reach. We all just have our gripes about everything we don't like. Not liking something doesn't make it broken.

Posted by: PainRelief1
Golf Club- Available only in forge, such as the Hornet with Rockets.

You want something added into the multiplayer, and from the info you told us, you want it in matchmaking.

It would matter. I'm stuck in front of a door that the motorbike looks like it can, and I see a guy running up to me with a shotgun when he should be lodged between the wheel and axle. It will be the most awesome looking piece of crap I've ever rode on.

Again, add a completely different vehicle. Don't reskin the mongoose to look like something its not. It's an ATV, not a motorcycle.

On top of that, why make a clone? Unless its a nerfed version of a more powerful vehicle, it shouldn't exist. I want quality, not quantity.


Posted by: Phynixblack

A golf club is tiny compared to the gravity hammer.

I understand were you are coming from, but I don't think that it would matter too much.

Would it be far fetched? Yeah. But it doesn't have to be perfect to be pretty cool. Halo is good at proving that.


Really? I must have typoed. I'll check.

I only mean for my idea to extend into Forge.

Edit: No, I never state I think they should be in MM. I just made sure to address that the usual disagreements with idea threads for silly thing is almost always 'It hurts balance' or 'It isn't Canon'.

Sorry if I seem to be saying otherwise. I rarely make threads, so my OP is probably terrible.




[Edited on 11.20.2009 11:42 AM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 11:40 AM PDT

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