Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: "Let Halo be Halo" I disagree. Let Halo be Great.
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Subject: "Let Halo be Halo" I disagree. Let Halo be Great.

"Silently, Reflection turns our world to stone" Hey I'm 15, if you wanna play just add me!

I've seen countless threads suggesting Halo: Reach be improved upon by adding aspects assosciated with different games. (Most prominantly being any number of the admittedly awesome COD series features, but that specifically is not what this is about.) I have seen Sprinting suggested, Customizable classes, Stealth features, Iron sights, and many, many others from all types of different games. I am not here to discount or promote any of these individual features, but to ask the community to keep an open mind towards them. All too often I see threads that offer the idea of HR including features that are utilized by other games being discounted by this- "Let Halo be Halo, it doesn't need to copy other games to be amazing, etc. etc." I could not disagree more.

In 2001 Halo CE popularized the now common Health regeneration system. It became extremely characteristic of Halo- even in articles today you sometimes see the regenerative health system reffered to as the "Halo system." However, despite this feature being so characteristic of Halo, other game developers went ahead and used it anyway- many times, to huge sucess. You see, if developers had been afraid of stealing a feature that "rightly belonged" to the Halo franchise, gaming itself would be much different. A little game called COD would never have seen even close the sucess it has, and most likely would have either died out, or still be based in the WW II era.I could list many other examples, but I don't think I need to. Just pick your feature and follow the same logic, you'll get the same result- that is, worse games. My point is- "stealing" features that work in other games is simply part of gaming evolution. If every game made from today on decided not to use features that proved succesful and fun in other games, we'd be playing the damn-near same stuff in 20 years. You need to keep an open mind. So what if sprinting is what COD does? Who says it can't be used to make Halo better? And so what if Halo traditionally doesn't have class based multiplayer. If (and only if) it proved more fun, does anyone really care that it's "not traditional Halo?" Though these might not be agreed upon examples, one thing we should all agree upon is that a more fun game is a better game. And if making it more fun means using the sucess of the competition (other games) to your advantage- everyone wins. The devs make a better game, we play a better game, and gaming itself continues to evolve. So keep an open mind, and consider the possibility that yes, Halo Reach (or ANY game for that matter) could, and probably will be a better game for using features, formulas, and ideas that deviate from it's more traditional ones. Thanks for reading!

  • 11.20.2009 2:31 PM PDT
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I didn't order this wall of text

  • 11.20.2009 2:33 PM PDT

Group invites will be treated very poorly because the Care Package is empty.

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Halo is already great.

We can still stick with the 'Let Halo be Halo' thing now.

  • 11.20.2009 2:34 PM PDT

Bam.

Posted by: Jeremiah
Face your fear, then consume it to give yourself strength.

I agree with you. Many people state that implementing an idea used in another game is considered "stealing" the idea, which is dumb. No one "owns" an idea, though if you take too many it would change gameplay too much.

Basically, it's fine to take 1 or 2 ideas from another game.

  • 11.20.2009 2:34 PM PDT

So you think if Bungie put COD elements in the game it will be better than every other Halo game.

  • 11.20.2009 2:35 PM PDT

"No Survivors"

I think Bungie is more than happy to get suggestions from fans. how else do they know what we want, its us with the money they want. seems a fair deal.

  • 11.20.2009 2:36 PM PDT
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  • 11.20.2009 2:36 PM PDT

"Silently, Reflection turns our world to stone" Hey I'm 15, if you wanna play just add me!

Posted by: AgLion
Halo is already great.

We can still stick with the 'Let Halo be Halo' thing now.


It's undeniable Halo is great, even one of the best there is. But don't you want it to be better? Perhaps Halo: Reach is one new "borrowed" feature away from being the revolution that was Halo: CE. (After all, I don't think CE's regenerative health was the first example of it- just a really well done borrowed idea.) If you ask Halo to not even consider other succesful ideas, your quite literally asking them to limit their potential.

  • 11.20.2009 2:38 PM PDT

HAY BEY BEH HAY BEY BEH HAY
GURLS SEY GURLS SEY

I think that Halo could take a few ideas from COD (such as sprinting and the whole aiming mechanic) however, I disagree on classes, even if it made the game better. Simply because it doesn't make it fair. At least with Halo, every starts with the exact same weapon so that way everyone (equipment wise, not skill wise) is equal at the start.

You do make a lot of good points in what you said and I rather enjoyed reading that huge wall of text.

  • 11.20.2009 2:39 PM PDT

"Silently, Reflection turns our world to stone" Hey I'm 15, if you wanna play just add me!

Posted by: Gagambino19
So you think if Bungie put COD elements in the game it will be better than every other Halo game.


No. I think if Bungie integrates elements of ANY game for the better, it will be better than every other Halo game. Who's to say that (and please note, just a random example) some added stealth mechanics wouldn't make HR a much better experience?

  • 11.20.2009 2:42 PM PDT

Posted by: D3vilz Ang3l
If you ask Halo to not even consider other succesful ideas, your quite literally asking them to limit their potential.

No, we are asking them to innovate and come up with ideas that few even dreamed to think about.

Demanding that Bungie copy other game's mechanics simply on the basis that "Game X is good, Game X had Mechanic Y, so Halo with Mechanic Y will also be good." is literally asking them to limit their potential.

  • 11.20.2009 2:44 PM PDT

Teal Deer

Sprinting works in CoD, Because you barely have any health, and are way more open, however, in Halo, we have shields which take quite some time for the more common starting weapons to take down, as we can assume that it will be difficult to 4-shot someone while they are sprinting, so, it would really be sort of OP in its own way.

  • 11.20.2009 2:48 PM PDT

let me make this clear YOUR GEUSS IS AS GOOD AS MINE.basically you might think my guess its dump but i might think yours is dump but your chance of getting it right is the same as anybody else unless you know what happens

-tomf7

I like your whole idea of "let's not screw over Halo with CoD" type gameplay but if Bungie changes that then they probably won't sell as many copies (and Microsoft will have retard spree).Good day.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 2:48 PM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 2:48 PM PDT

HAY BEY BEH HAY BEY BEH HAY
GURLS SEY GURLS SEY

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: D3vilz Ang3l
If you ask Halo to not even consider other succesful ideas, your quite literally asking them to limit their potential.

No, we are asking them to innovate and come up with ideas that few even dreamed to think about.

Demanding that Bungie copy other game's mechanics simply on the basis that "Game X is good, Game X had Mechanic Y, so Halo with Mechanic Y will also be good." is literally asking them to limit their potential.


Being innovative and implementing entirely new ideas can be a very risky thing because it can make or break a game. Whereas, if you're implementing something from another game that you know works in said game (COD's Sprint for example) then you at least have something to go off of and you know it works.

Also, a good portion of the things you see in FPS's are borrowed from other games (maybe not exactly.) You can't expect every FPS to have something as original as a Gravity Gun.

[Edited on 11.20.2009 2:51 PM PST]

  • 11.20.2009 2:50 PM PDT
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Btw - polls on bungie.net mean absolutely nothing, so please don't use them to try and prove some kind of point.

~Achronos

Not only will i agree I'll do you one better. Halo did not come up with the health shield system. Many games before halo used this feature. Have you ever heard of this little game called Goldeneye. The system in that was health and Body Armor. No it didn't regenerate, but that's, how like you said, gaming evolves. Bungie took a system that they recognized as working well and incorporated it into their came because it does just that, works well. AFter halo CE it seemed they stopped evolving the genre and left the game in a holding pattern becuased it worked. I personally have played all three so much that im just sick of it, its not fun anymore. Im in no way saying its bad, it just needs an overhaul to evolve beyond what it is because we all know it has bottomless potential.

  • 11.20.2009 2:54 PM PDT

"Silently, Reflection turns our world to stone" Hey I'm 15, if you wanna play just add me!

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: D3vilz Ang3l
If you ask Halo to not even consider other succesful ideas, your quite literally asking them to limit their potential.

No, we are asking them to innovate and come up with ideas that few even dreamed to think about.

Demanding that Bungie copy other game's mechanics simply on the basis that "Game X is good, Game X had Mechanic Y, so Halo with Mechanic Y will also be good." is literally asking them to limit their potential.


To be completely honest- I agree. I would rather have HR implement something new and exciting, groundbreaking even, then to simply slap on game mechanic Y because it worked for Game X. However, that's not what I'm saying, and this really isn't even directed towards Bungie, but towards the community. What I'm suggesting is this: don't lift your chin towards Mechanic Y completely- keep an open mind. Though that feature may not be suited for Halo simply because it works for others, it is self-limiting to not even consider it's possibility.

To clarify, let me say this. Maby sprinting doesn't work for Halo. You could make a reasonable arguement for that as others have before, I'm sure. But what I want people to do is to not discount sprinting simply because it's not Halo, but to keep their mind open, consider it, and then, based on logical arguement (i.e. you have lots of health) make their point against or for it. Not to respond to said idea with the steel-wall that is "Let Halo be Halo." The world would be a much different place if people- creators- of all sorts failed to even acknowledge other ideas.

  • 11.20.2009 2:59 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Ugh, time has taught you pieces.

  • 11.20.2009 3:00 PM PDT

"Silently, Reflection turns our world to stone" Hey I'm 15, if you wanna play just add me!

Posted by: bungieisbroken
Not only will i agree I'll do you one better. Halo did not come up with the health shield system. Many games before halo used this feature. Have you ever heard of this little game called Goldeneye. The system in that was health and Body Armor. No it didn't regenerate, but that's, how like you said, gaming evolves. Bungie took a system that they recognized as working well and incorporated it into their came because it does just that, works well. AFter halo CE it seemed they stopped evolving the genre and left the game in a holding pattern becuased it worked. I personally have played all three so much that im just sick of it, its not fun anymore. Im in no way saying its bad, it just needs an overhaul to evolve beyond what it is because we all know it has bottomless potential.


Haha, my man. I couldn't agree more, and a very good point you make.

  • 11.20.2009 3:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Scobra Rlz d00d
Being innovative and implementing entirely new ideas can be a very risky thing because it can make or break a game. Whereas, if you're implementing something from another game that you know works in said game (COD's Sprint for example) then you at least have something to go off of and you know it works.

Which is why properly designed videogames have an extensive prototyping phase where you decide the major mechanics for the game and make sure they will work. Bungie wouldn't bother announcing that they were developing Reach if they didn't know that it was going to work 100%.

  • 11.20.2009 3:02 PM PDT

HAY BEY BEH HAY BEY BEH HAY
GURLS SEY GURLS SEY

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Scobra Rlz d00d
Being innovative and implementing entirely new ideas can be a very risky thing because it can make or break a game. Whereas, if you're implementing something from another game that you know works in said game (COD's Sprint for example) then you at least have something to go off of and you know it works.

Which is why properly designed videogames have an extensive prototyping phase where you decide the major mechanics for the game and make sure they will work. Bungie wouldn't bother announcing that they were developing Reach if they didn't know that it was going to work 100%.


You make a good point, but sometimes things might slip by. Martyrdom in Call of Duty 4, for example. I'm not saying that new things shouldn't be added, I'm just saying that sometimes if they make it into the final game and aren't well received by the masses then it could have an adverse effect on the whole experience. I didn't play Call of Duty 4 online for a long period of time because I got so sick of everyone using Martyrdom. I quit Halo 2 after a certain period because of the whole Noob Combo craze (then later started playing again after a majority of the weapon sets in MM were changed to Human Only.) I'm all for innovation, but only if it's guaranteed to work.

  • 11.20.2009 3:10 PM PDT

Halo is great. Bungie is great.

If we let Halo be Halo then it will be awesome. If you don't agree then you must not like Halo.

  • 11.20.2009 3:18 PM PDT

Finally someone who understands that just cause they take said feature from said game doesn't make it not halo anymore! And half the people here are going crazy cause you mentioned a "forbidden" game on the forum

COD so what if they take a feature from COD its the way the software industry works...

If I say Microsoft sucks then Im sure I will get a swarm of flaming trolls telling me off, whether trying to prove me wrong or saying I suck...

Guess what.... Microsoft sucks... there I said it. I only use Microsoft software so I can play games like this since the company never think to port it to other platforms... and I don't mean consoles I mean like a linux port or something.

Also for those of you that say that it needs an original idea or its stealing guess what... almost all of the stuff in Windows 95 up to 7 was done by another company first... so don't say its stealing since well lets see... GUI's aka Windows Mac/Unix did it first... before when it was all Command Line Unix/Mac were the ones who did GUI then Microsoft decides to do it.... Nintendo and Sony make consoles... Microsoft realizes OMG we need a console... if you look at anything Microsoft is always the last to get into the fray of anything...

They didn't make Xbox till PS2/Gamecube came out.... Gadgets in vista.... copy of Mac Widgets which have been out for years... Zune copy of the Ipod... although I prefer Zune its still based generally off Ipod...

Face it if companies didn't take other proven ideas from other companies nothing would ever change... so if Bungie adds sprinting doesn't mean it won't sell... maybe if they take a few CoD features... sure Bungie might lose a few A-Holes who think that everything must be 100% original but maybe some CoD fans will switch to Reach? So if they did include sprinting... its not going to ruin the game!

D3vilz Ang3l I agree with you 110%!!!!!

  • 11.20.2009 3:26 PM PDT
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Btw - polls on bungie.net mean absolutely nothing, so please don't use them to try and prove some kind of point.

~Achronos

Posted by: Scobra Rlz d00d
Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Scobra Rlz d00d
Being innovative and implementing entirely new ideas can be a very risky thing because it can make or break a game. Whereas, if you're implementing something from another game that you know works in said game (COD's Sprint for example) then you at least have something to go off of and you know it works.

Which is why properly designed videogames have an extensive prototyping phase where you decide the major mechanics for the game and make sure they will work. Bungie wouldn't bother announcing that they were developing Reach if they didn't know that it was going to work 100%.


You make a good point, but sometimes things might slip by. Martyrdom in Call of Duty 4, for example. I'm not saying that new things shouldn't be added, I'm just saying that sometimes if they make it into the final game and aren't well received by the masses then it could have an adverse effect on the whole experience. I didn't play Call of Duty 4 online for a long period of time because I got so sick of everyone using Martyrdom. I quit Halo 2 after a certain period because of the whole Noob Combo craze (then later started playing again after a majority of the weapon sets in MM were changed to Human Only.) I'm all for innovation, but only if it's guaranteed to work.



The idea of Martyrdom came from halo ce. In CE it was always good strategy to throw a nade at your feet before you die becasue you'll probably get the guy. In halo 2 they made it so nades wouldn't go if when you died, or it may have been lag, whatever it was, it didn't work, nor was nearly affective as it was in CE. It works somewhat in 3 but the guy never guys when he's standing on my nade. When I played CoD 4 I just assumed they incorporated it in as a perk in which you just drop a live nade. I really hated it in CoD4 and feel the new adjustment to it makes it much better.

  • 11.20.2009 3:35 PM PDT
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Contribute to 10,000,000,000 covie kills!

Also, a good portion of the things you see in FPS's are borrowed from other games (maybe not exactly.) You can't expect every FPS to have something as original as a Gravity Gun.

To support the whole 'Borrowing' thing, that wasn't innovative as you might think.

Half-Life 2 was the first popular game to have a Gravity Gun, but it wasn't the first. Even Halo: CE had one that was cut from release. The model is still on the HaloPC disc and can be extracted via modding.

However, i'm not actually here to support this.

I don't want Halo to have different features such as iron sights or killstreaks because it's not Halo. Not because it's in a different game.

There's a huge risk in adding a core gameplay mechanic into a game when the series has already had 4 FPS games each with almost the same gameplay mechanics. How do you think the CoD fans would react if someone suggested driveable vehicles in MP, or an announcer who calls out killstreaks and bombdrops, or removing the iron sights and making fireing from the hip accurate?

They would go crazy. Because it's not CoD. Most of the features people are asking for arn't Halo and would break the flow.

Prone? To fast paced, and accuracy bonuses would be messed up.
Iron Sights? Again, Halo is to fast paced and it wouldn't be worth it.
Killstreaks? Pointlessly annoying.

I do love MW2 BTW, i'm not a CoD hater, I just think you should leave CoD to CoD, and Halo to Halo.

  • 11.20.2009 3:36 PM PDT

Posted by: gaurdianAQ
Guess what.... Microsoft sucks... there I said it. I only use Microsoft software so I can play games like this since the company never think to port it to other platforms... and I don't mean consoles I mean like a linux port or something.

It's not wrong for them to not want to share the wealth with their competitors.

Also for those of you that say that it needs an original idea or its stealing guess what... almost all of the stuff in Windows 95 up to 7 was done by another company first... so don't say its stealing since well lets see... GUI's aka Windows Mac/Unix did it first... before when it was all Command Line Unix/Mac were the ones who did GUI then Microsoft decides to do it.... Nintendo and Sony make consoles... Microsoft realizes OMG we need a console... if you look at anything Microsoft is always the last to get into the fray of anything...

There is a world of difference between emulating to surpass the competition and copying a mechanic from some other game just because it is "cool". Halo doesn't need to emulate Call of Duty to surpass it. Therefore they don't need to copy Call of Duty's game mechanics, if that makes any sense.


Face it if companies didn't take other proven ideas from other companies nothing would ever change...

Wrong. If companies were never brave enough to create new proven ideas, then nothing would ever change.

Really, assuming that copying ideas from other good games leads to a better game, where does it stop? Perhaps I'm driving a warthog and I have a gunner in the back and a guy in the side seat with a BR and a AR. I have a bruteshot, which might be useful to stop another warthog, but to use it I'd have to jump out of the vehicle. Perhaps we can press a button an do a massive seat swap like in Mario Kart Double Dash. It worked well in that game, so following your reasoning theres no reason to keep it out.

And why are you talking about Microsoft Software and attempting to compare that to a game made by Bungie?

  • 11.20.2009 3:46 PM PDT

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