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Subject: "Ragdoll"
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I absolutely LOVE halo, don't get me wrong, but here is an observation that I never stop making. Whenever you kill someone with an explosion, be it Elite, Grunt, Marine or Jackal (and even the Chief himself) they go flying through the air, spinning their arms around in circles and kicking their legs. Now, i'm sure that when people are sent flying through the air, and they are alive to experience it, they fling their arms and legs wildly to stablize themselves, try to land on their feet, or whatever. But when an elite dies from a Sticky grenade to the head, is he fully concious and has complete control over his body? I certainly wouldn't.
And what about the pile of dead grunts that have been laying their dead for 20 min? should they re-animate and swing their arms and legs when their corpses are caught in the blast and sent flying?
I wouldn't even notice this if not for the "ragdoll" effects that set in after the bodies of more articulated models have been laying still for a few seconds. While not the best ragdoll physics I've seen, they still would be better than the current flying "animation" that they used.
I'm really curious as to why they didn't fully support the ragdoll physics, especially after they themselves said "The original game engine had some cool features too, like way-before-their-time and occasionally hilarious ragdoll effects for falling Marines."
If they had these ragdoll effects up and running back in '98, why leave them out of the finished product? Anyone who's played Max Payne 2, Painkiller, or UT2003 knows what a HUGE addition ragdoll physics are to the overall gameplay experience. The feeling of realism is enhanced ten-fold when you shoot an enemy in the chest with a shotgun and he goes flying back and falls over a table with exactly how he should, instead of falling TOWARD you, like elites and other chiefs sometimes do.
I wouldn't even be writing this if I thought Ragdoll was to be included in Halo 2. But, if you examine the screens, especially those in the new Game Informer, you can see that every airborne Master Chief is flailing wildly in the same exact pose as in the original. And every dying MC is doing so with an animation, instead of with physics pulling him to the ground.
That's all. Let me know if anyone else has noticed the windmill effect.
P.S. check out the Jackals doing their same old "running for cover with my hands up covering my head" even though they are running towards the chief.

  • 04.28.2004 4:36 PM PDT
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Yep, it's true. I want ragdoll deaths in Halo too, but unfortunately it doesn't look like it's going to make it into Halo 2. Maybe it's a technical issue with the Xbox?

  • 04.28.2004 4:39 PM PDT

-S

What makes you say that, Grunt? There's been nothing at all to suggest that Ragdoll will or won't be in Halo 2.

  • 04.28.2004 4:45 PM PDT
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It take a lot of CPU cycle to calculate ragdoll physic...Xbox only has 733.....

  • 04.28.2004 4:45 PM PDT
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Maybe it's a technical issue with the Xbox?


-> Unreal Championship

  • 04.28.2004 4:47 PM PDT
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*sigh* ragdoll physics was what kept me so enthralled with Metroid Prime (blasting space pirates backwards onto the edge of a catwalk and watching them slowly slip off of it and fall down in a crumpled heap below is the best). Which makes me think, if Metroid on a GCN can do it, why not Xbox? Good question, says I.
This post also reminded me on something funny along those lines. On AotCR after I brought the marines to the extraction point and went into the room with the sleeping grunts and guarding elites, I knocked out one sleeping grunt in a little nook in the center room and he flailed his arms and legs about as he was knocked back. Here's the funny part, he got stuck in the corner so he kept on flailing around like he was perpetually falling while staying in the same place. I eventually grenaded him out, but it was pretty funny.

  • 04.28.2004 4:58 PM PDT
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Nothing at all? i know that there's nothing to suggest that it WILL be included, but what about EVERY screenshot of a MC in the classic windmill anim.? those don't suggest to you that thatis what will happen when a dead body goes flyin'? why am i even talking about this... i've got homework...

  • 04.28.2004 5:31 PM PDT
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HMM NOT SURE GUYS. I THOUGHT I READ SOMEWHERE IN OXM THAT THE ARE REALLY GOING ALL OUT IN THAT. BUT I AM WORKING LATE AND MIGHT HAVE HALLUCINATED

  • 04.28.2004 5:56 PM PDT
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i DUnoo personally ragdoll effects may look a lil wierd in halo 2 it just isnt halo btu i am sure bugnie could pull it off, i mean dont get me arong i love to see those bodies flop around.

  • 04.28.2004 5:59 PM PDT
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I personally LIKE the pre-programmed death animations, and the flailing throught he air. it's more dynamic than just...falling...but nontheless a bit more comical than real .

Max Payne 2 is a perfect example: the ragdoll physice employed with the havoc (?) engine were REALLY COOL, but i find a liking to the Halo animations a bit...better.

Ragdoll crap would certainly make for an infinite amount of possibilities, though. Fun for the whole family.


We'll just have to wait and see.

  • 04.28.2004 6:06 PM PDT
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Why are you guys saying its a technical issue with the xbox that they might not put it in. If you recall, they were used in Max Pain 2 on the Xbox, so the system can defiinitely do it. Now I'm not saying they will or won't be in, I personally don't care to much. If they use ragdoll effects, great, if not, that's ok to. If they do use just death animations I would like to see them include a lot more variety in them. I personally bet bungie will make it look good however they do it.

  • 04.28.2004 6:32 PM PDT
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Was there really ragdoll physics in Metroid Prime? I played through the game and didn't notice them I guess. Good game, but it doesn't beat Halo in my opinion, and I've been a Nintendo fan since I was little.

  • 04.28.2004 9:00 PM PDT
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I*love*the*flailing*of*the*arms*don't*dis*it
It gives the game personality, or... I just like it cause I'm weird.

  • 04.28.2004 9:08 PM PDT
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Yea, there were ragdoll animations in Prime, but only for the Zebesians. That was a great game, single player as good as Halo. Halo still wins though because of multiplayer.

I'd like to see ragdoll physics in Halo 2, but not only for explosion deaths - I'd love to see that Flood's arms fling forward and its legs get swept up when I unload some buckshot in its chest.

  • 04.29.2004 4:48 AM PDT
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the xbox "can" do ragdoll physics, however the amount of CPU power to devoted to calculating ragdoll death is substantial: and with all the power already being used in Halo 2 (and with the improved polycount and bumpmapping overlays, thats a lot of power: and the xbox does only have a 733mhz CPU, lets remember) i think its extremely unlikely we will see full ragdoll physics such as that seen in MP2, UTChampionship, or the myriad of PC titles that use it.

  • 04.29.2004 1:04 PM PDT
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I seem to remember a thread about this a few weeks ago, people decided that Halo 2 shouldn't have ragdoll because it looked floppy and boneless, instead they decided Halo 2 should have death animations similar to Halo but slightly modified to look better. With the new game engine who knows what will happen, maybe ragdoll, maybe modified Halo deaths.

  • 04.29.2004 1:21 PM PDT
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the game engine is still limited by the platform. there will not be full ragdoll deaths, trust me: more likely semi-ragdoll limp bodies with animations: ideally it should be many different and varied animations followed by full ragdoll, but the xbox does not have the power required to pull it off.

  • 04.29.2004 1:24 PM PDT
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i all up for the ragdoll affect but in some areas it doesnt work. I beleive that maybe the game would be better if some affects were real like for example when you threw a grenade on a body it would blow too pieces as it would in real life and bits splattered everywhere. Also the same reaction with bullets and and plasma weapons. The plasma weapons should also have the same affects they have in the book. They don't work in the same way.

  • 04.29.2004 1:26 PM PDT
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again, limited by the engine on hit decals and such for bullets (remind me of the effect plasma wepaons have in the novels?) but good old half-life style corpse giblet-ising with grenades is eminently possible: its just whether or not Bungie decide to include it.

  • 04.29.2004 1:31 PM PDT
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The novels say that the plasma weapons have a much larger burning affect on the humans there effect is actaully a lot greater than the game makes it seem. The plasma weapons are also meant to fflare up a bit more than they do.

  • 04.29.2004 1:42 PM PDT
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location specific hit decals or burning anims are again going to be pretty CPU/GPU intensive, thus not soemthing we will see.

  • 04.29.2004 1:45 PM PDT
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i dont c y burning anims should be so hard to add into the game.

  • 04.29.2004 1:52 PM PDT
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anims as in an elite stumbling round on fire= easy
location specific, small scale burning*= harder, but easily possible: see below



*i mean that if you hit an elite in the head, then his head burns: if on the arm, the arm burns: but with this happening to EVERY character that is shot with EVERY round that is fired, you have a lot of anims going on... it would be less CPU intensive with 2D sprites for the fire, but that would look lame... all in all, its just not worth the hassle on a console.

  • 04.29.2004 1:57 PM PDT
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yeah i spose but you c the burning affect doesnt work on sheilds instead it brings down the shields rather than burning them. It only burns on cells so if the enemies had sheilds wouldnt it decreaase the number of anims going on at once? making it possible and less 'lame'

  • 04.29.2004 2:00 PM PDT

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