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  • Subject: Gherrit White and ilovebees.com
Subject: Gherrit White and ilovebees.com
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I noticed some similarites on the ilovebees site with the Gherrit White
terminal from Marathon.

He could feel the roughness of the sand under his palms, for
all the motion of the waves around him, his hands had come to
rest serenely upon the ocean floor. His body tossed and
flipped, pivoting about his hands under which he could feel
the safe, coarse sand. The wave crashed one final time, he
landed upside down, his hands thrown clear from the sandy
bottom, the rush of the water filling his ears, his nose, his
mouth, the sound of crashing water cascading down from his
feet to his head- penetrating his mind to tear down thoughts.
Like the sand castle he had built to withstand the tide, his
thoughts came down around him.


Compare to this.
AY MAYDAY MAYDAY
totally different kind of memory all of a sudden, floating up like a
bubble from deep water, then *pop* on the surface of my mind.
All in black and white for some reason, faded out, or just time
bleaching the past like it does, time is hard that way, if you-

stop. stay on task, girl.
so *pop*, and I'm...

playing on the beach, very young, making a castle out of sand.
It's a good castle, I'm smart, I'm really smart and I'm good with
my hands and the castle is beautiful but the tide is coming up,
I'm making dikes and moats and outer walls, getting a little
desperate here this castle means the world to me it's way
better than my brother's, but the tide is rising and rising, the tide
is always coming up and no matter how hard I try to save what I
have made, sooner or later the spiders wash over it and melt it
down I'm losing the memory already I can't see myself was I
wearing a dress or overalls or ...? There's a boy on the beach
next to me but a wave comes up foaming with spiders and takes
away his face-

oh.

we're made of sand.

we're both made of sand.

uh-oh.


She talks about making her sandcastle better than her brothers.
Hmm...Could Gherrit White be related to this mysterious character
somehow?
Here's a link to the Marathon Story Page where you can find the
Gherrit White terminal.
Also, the comment about both being made of sand may be a hint
telling us that they're both A.I.s, meaning Gherrit White and whoever
is sending these messages.
Thoughts?

  • 07.28.2004 12:13 PM PDT
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Hot Damn!

  • 07.28.2004 1:11 PM PDT
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Very interesting connection! In fact, both the ramblings of ILB's Melissa AI and G. White appear to be very similiar characters. Now while we could debate GWhite is actually the player, for ILB purpose's, I'm gonna say G. White is from Durandal.

Melissa is found in a very delusional state. Something happened - a shipwreck we suspect - that makes her forget even her own name. "I only recall my nickname, The Operator." In her delousional state, as she attempts to make sense of her state and surroundings, she babbles on and apparently "coughs" up "memories." As the Spider is reparing her, she is regurgitating memories, so its safe to say that part of the "reboot" routine is for the AI to scan through the databanks and recall old images and "memories" stored away, so that in rebooting, the AI can help regain its identity. That is why we find such random texts all over ILB.

Now back to White. Durandal was allegely damaged in the initial Pfhor attack. We know from th eLost Network Packets that Leela(?) went through the databanks and started changing history and dates, to make it harder for the Pfhor to assess humanity's strengths (and earth's location). So I'm going to say the connection is that as Durandal is "rebooting" so to speak, he regurgitates this story of Gherrit White. Its in a very similiar voice to Melissa. A story full of metaphor and symbolism that only an AI could write. A story symbolizing Durandal's overcoming Strauss's absuses, Durandal's own early stages of rampancy, and his utlimate overcoming of his own "limits."

So we have two stories of two oppressed AI's, each seeking a freedom of sorts, regurgitating stories laced with symbolism and metaphor that only a partially aware AI could write.

Whoa, that's so cool :D

Now intended by the authors? Wouldn't we all like to know . . . .

edit: I should also point out that common ideas/themes such as "waves" have pervaded the marathon universe, as I'm sure you're well aware of. That sand and beach could be continuations of old ideas . . . fascinating. Unoriginal? Perhaps. But still good allusions/symbolism that holds well for both stories.

[Edited on 7/28/2004 2:17:45 PM]

  • 07.28.2004 2:12 PM PDT
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Thanks for your input Jnice and Jager. I always thought the GWhite
terminal was the player, but now it makes more sense that it would
be Durandal. Where would Durandal get the name Gherrit White
though? Same thing with the name Melissa, it's just not very A.I.
like. Know what I mean?

If the Author did indeed intend for us to make this connection, then
it's very odd to me that 2 different A.I.s that are supposedly in two
completely different storylines would have similar visions when
damaged. The comment about Melissa's brother making a
sandcastle as well is what's got me exited about this connection,
but like you said Jager, whether it's of any significance remains to
be seen.

I'm sure you remember the Cortana Letters. Cortana quoted
Durandal directly, but nothing ever came of that in Halo, so I'll try
not to get too exited about the Marathon and Halo story lines
coming together. I can still dream though.

  • 07.28.2004 2:26 PM PDT
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Now for the final question. Why would bungie enable the masses to play marathon at this point....? Bungie could have done it after Halo 2 or right after Halo. It probably took some time to write the programs or whatever they had to do to make it playable on the pc. I think they wanted to get the story out which was in marathon so they could tie the two together with ilovebees.com

  • 07.29.2004 12:35 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: Sascoo
Now for the final question. Why would bungie enable the masses to play marathon at this point....? Bungie could have done it after Halo 2 or right after Halo. It probably took some time to write the programs or whatever they had to do to make it playable on the pc. I think they wanted to get the story out which was in marathon so they could tie the two together with ilovebees.com


I'm sorry, I have no idea what it is you're trying to say. Marathon has been out for 10 years now, people are already "enabled" to play it.

  • 07.29.2004 12:36 PM PDT
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Bungie released the sourcecode for Marathon to the (devoted) community at large. They understood their love for the game, and the desire to be able to continue playing for a long time to come. They didn't spend any work on it. Fans have been the ones making everything possible!

The recent influx of Marathoners started when everyone sat around, thinking of things to do while waiting for Halo2. And then some newcomer Halo fans actually started listening to the old guys going "remember the old days of Marathon? Best. Game. Ever." and because it was made so readily available to anyone for a very low price, things rocketed. Which is convenient, b/c there is so much in marathon that should be considered required reading for Bungie fans!

  • 07.29.2004 12:39 PM PDT
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A few things:

Cortana letters: The important thing to remember about the Cortana letters is the time-frame. These letters came out before Halo was ever announced. Fans were drooling in anticipation of (promised to never exist) Fourth Marathon. So when they got emails with an AI that sounded very Durandal'ish, well . . . hehe.

I'd say the purpose of the Cortana letters was to play with the fans, give them something to chew on, and kinda hint at the next project - Halo. Because of the long path Halo developement took, I think its fair to say that the story- and even tone- changed as well. Therefore, the Cortana of those ancient letters is more of a Durandal clone than the Cortana we have come to know today!

Now these site is coming out mere months before Halo 2. The story - including all the Sin-O-Matixx- are completed! Therefore, everything on this site we can take as being completely relevant. Certainly, there are parrallels, but tons of differences too. I was very suprised to see Melissa's reasons for escaping. She isn't having delusions of grandeur, attempting to escape the closure of the universe! She just resents being used as a tool, a weapon. She apparently prefers to read books, even seems to wish to be real!

What I don't think I explicitly explained was the whole "memory benchmark" tests. Apparently, when something goes wrong, and an AI needs to "reset" itself, it seems to pour over all its old memories. Obviously, some of these "memories" never happened and are even more of "dreams" than anything else. But the point being made is that OUR EXPERIENCES are what DEFINE us (as a bit of a molecular biologist myself, I'd content genetics does, but experience makes for better stories). Therefore, both Durandal and Melissa find themselves regurgitating old memories/dreams doing rather human things because it helps the AI "re-align" itself, or find its personality again. Such melancholy, wishful memories such as talking with the Castaway and wishing to be real seem to define Melissa. Likewise, the hateful memory of G. White - a man/boy oppressed, eventually recalls his killing and breaking off his bonds. That being a dream of Durandal's helps him realign - or remember even - who he is and what his ultimate goal. I love the idea that the white rat is Strauss, and the Durandal dreams of killing him to break free of his restrains.

And finally, on names . . . It is made somewhat clear in Halo books - but not at all mentioned in Marathon - that AI's are based on someone, i.e., a shadow of someone's mind and personality. Could Durandal have come from a G. White? IS Melissa based on a real person melissa(prob. not since Cortana is not called Hasely)? Either way, it is the memories of G. White (if he existed), and Melissa's "donor mind", and Dr. Hasely, that each respective AI would recall if they ever needed to perform a rebooting of sorts. And obviously, Melissa's mind is a very garbled place in Phase 1 MAYDAY texts. She doesn't even remember her own name. So she frantically searches her own "hardcoded" memories for clues. And again, I'll guess that a damaged Durandal sought out clues of his own identity after the initial Pfhor attack. And when Durandal came across the story of Gheritt White . . . . . . well . . . . experience defines us. And it is that experience that is regurgitated to us as Durandal seeks to find himself.

  • 07.29.2004 12:58 PM PDT
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Very nice post Jager.
After reading and considering what you said, I think that the memories
that are popping up on the ilovebees site are of Melissa's former
abuse, a lot like Durandal's G.W. experience. She talks about how
she is being operated on, and sand is falling out of her head.
I think sand could be symoblism for silicon, (like they use in semicon-
ductors and other computer stuff I know next to nothing about. ) so
Melissa may have been experimented on, then had the
memories deleted. Apparently they were able to get rid of the
memory, but she maintained a more symbolic, poetic record hidden
deep within her circuits in order to hide it.

I wonder how complex and A.I. mind is compared to a human. I was
thinking that maybe the names Gherrit White and Melissa were
created by the A.I.s to hide the memories of their abuse from
themselves, a kind of schizophrenia. One final note. Melissa is
upset that she is made of "sand," so this is probably her realizing
that she isn't real. But she says "we're made of sand." Who else
is there?





[Edited on 7/29/2004 1:43:59 PM]

  • 07.29.2004 1:41 PM PDT
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I mean, I interpreted it as she was a shipwrecked AI (probe) that had crashed on a desert planet she was suppose to scout (cov homeworld?) and was damaged. Split open perhaps with sand spilling in.

But now I just though that "sand" means more than its literal sense, even silicon. In the story of the sand castle and the waves she describes her brother (another AI if you want to look further into it) being annilhilated, changed, erased. SAND to an AI means muttability. A sense of no true identity. Being made of something that can be changed at the whim of a programmer, or the "crashing of an oncoming wave against a sand castle." When you play with sand, it becomes what you want. And to Melissa, who fears losing her indentity and being used as an expendable weapon, being taked for granted even, she is afraid. She wants freedom. And I think she wants to be real.

That's the meloncholy stage anyways. And she resents the spider. She wants the programmer of the SPDR killed, killed, killed. That's the anger. Shall we see jealousy next?

  • 07.29.2004 1:56 PM PDT
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Cool, I can't wait to see what we'll see next. =)
What about waves? In the G.W. terminal and Melissa's "MAYDAY"
messages, they're both on a beach and they have both built sand-
castles to protect themselves from the tide. Melissa fears the
the loss of her identidy, or her sandcastle, like you said.
Also, there are the spiders in the waves. You've already figured
out that Melissa fears the SPDR, so waves are simply more
symbolism that supports this idea. G.W. is taken by the waves,
and in the process loses his sandcastle.(himself)
I think Melissa fears rampancy, and is trying her hardest to fight
it, while Durandal(G.W.) apparently came to embrace it.

On a side note, have you ever noticed the spacing in the last
few paragraphs of the G.W. terminal is weird? It looks like there
is some kind of picture there, but I can't tell.
http://marathon.bungie.org/story


  • 07.29.2004 2:27 PM PDT