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  • Subject: The Bungie AI Formula: Durandal, Cortana...Joyeuse?
Subject: The Bungie AI Formula: Durandal, Cortana...Joyeuse?

Reeeeeeeeeeeach, mmmmkay.

Hory Crap.


Good read. Very nice work. That stuff between my ears hurts a bit.

  • 06.26.2010 8:08 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: ApocalypeX
What about the AI in ONI?
You mean Shinamtama.

I don't know much about her and I don't think that she's one of the AI's in this whole thing. But it couldn't hurt to look into it.

  • 06.26.2010 11:20 PM PDT
Subject: **NEW IP** Bungie Formula: Durandal, Cortana, Joyeuse? *REVISED 3/20*

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: ApocalypeX
What about the AI in ONI?
You mean Shinamtama.

I don't know much about her and I don't think that she's one of the AI's in this whole thing. But it couldn't hurt to look into it.
I think she was. *opens new tab for search*
It's super hard to find out much about her, but I'll look for stuff also.

[Edited on 06.27.2010 12:21 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2010 12:21 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

What if you're thinking too much into all this and it's all just coincidence?

  • 07.07.2010 1:19 AM PDT

Posted by: Gandalf: I'm new. And a wizard.

Sapphire just got even more awesome.

Posted by: mount420: You are late.
Posted by: jaythenerdkid: A wizard is never late.
Posted by: THORSGOD: Nor is he ever early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
What if you're thinking too much into all this and it's all just coincidence?


Don't be such a spoil sport! XD

I think it's a very well thought-out theory.

  • 07.07.2010 5:49 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

you're naut cookin'

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
What if you're thinking too much into all this and it's all just coincidence?


This theory is really has too much going for it to just be a coincidence.

  • 07.07.2010 5:50 AM PDT

This is well thought but no, sorry.
The three swords you are talking about are Courtain, Durandal and Sauvagine.
Durandal doesn't mean 'to endure' in french, in fact it doesn't mean anything in french because Durandal come from doorndaal or dornthal which is the german name for Roncevaux (a french name this time), the place where died Roland, the holder of durandal (his sword was probably called Durandal after his death because of the miracle that happened at Roncevaux,also charlemagne most likely spoke german so it is because of that that the sword is not called roncevaux)

Joyeuse is the name of the sword of Charlemagne it is right... but it doesn't have anything to do with durandal...

Moreover Cortana come probably from curtana which is a ceremonial sword kept by 'Edouard le confesseur' and is used as a justice symbol...
Indeed Curtana fits way more to Cortana than Courtain.

Anyway I agree that the next 'important' AI will probably be bear a name of a sword but we don't really know which one it could be, even if 'joyeuse' is fine

That's all, here is where I've got my information, it's in french ( I'm french) so...

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27objets_l%C3%A9gendaire s#.C3.89p.C3.A9es

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durandal

Oh, and I just checked out the english version: utterly wrong that's all, the french version is more reliable because it deals with French things you know...

[Edited on 07.07.2010 11:49 AM PDT]

  • 07.07.2010 10:54 AM PDT

Argh...
Forget what I said about cortana...
Indeed Cortana come from curtana, but curtana is the other name of courtain!

Well, I guess Cortana and Durandal are linked after all...

But still, the third sword is not joyeuse(for sure), it is Sauvagine ( apparently)

[Edited on 07.07.2010 2:51 PM PDT]

  • 07.07.2010 10:59 AM PDT

-K

First off, I feel like a baby amongst all these old timers.
Secondly? Goodnight that was interesting!

The connections all seem too perfect to overlook. The names and stories are so similar. And with Durandal and Cortana already in their games, It seems like this is almost positive proof of another game, Or at least another story to be told. A question I have though, Are all of the swords in the same era? Because when Cortana makes reference to the other two swords, Does it mean that they were all made at the same time, Or is it just speaking of history?

The connections and stories and possibilities of a NEW story are incredible intriguing. I would very much enjoy seeing all of this work, And all of this Myth and legend come together. Especially if it meant that the Three Artificial Intelligences were to be joined in one huge story.

Thank you so much Cortana for this information, And all the hard work you put into it. I had a great time reading it and the information was fantastic.:)

  • 07.07.2010 11:51 AM PDT

I may have misunderstood you but I have to make sure: it isn't cortana in the game that say " I am of the same steel bla bla", this sentence is supposed to be written on the real world sword curtana ( or courtain or cortana if you want ...)

When she say I am of the same steel it means she was created at the same time that the two other swords ( the three sword were created by manifican and it took him three years to do them all at the same time)

And yes they are all in the same era, during charlemagne life, but they are supposed to still exist today.

  • 07.07.2010 2:51 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

I didn't include Sauvagine because it wasn't inscribed on Curtana's blade.

The meaning of Durandal isn't a big thing here, but I'm glad you knew it.

The three swords didn't have anything to do with each other, as a matter of fact (other than Curtana's inscription). Their holders did, however.

There are two Curtana swords, according to legend. One was Ogier the Dane's sword, the other is part of the crown jewels.

Wikipedia in general is unreliable. I used it sparingly.
Posted by: Oo Clifford oO
This is well thought but no, sorry.
The three swords you are talking about are Courtain, Durandal and Sauvagine.
Durandal doesn't mean 'to endure' in french, in fact it doesn't mean anything in french because Durandal come from doorndaal or dornthal which is the german name for Roncevaux (a french name this time), the place where died Roland, the holder of durandal (his sword was probably called Durandal after his death because of the miracle that happened at Roncevaux,also charlemagne most likely spoke german so it is because of that that the sword is not called roncevaux)

Joyeuse is the name of the sword of Charlemagne it is right... but it doesn't have anything to do with durandal...

Moreover Cortana come probably from curtana which is a ceremonial sword kept by 'Edouard le confesseur' and is used as a justice symbol...
Indeed Curtana fits way more to Cortana than Courtain.

Anyway I agree that the next 'important' AI will probably be bear a name of a sword but we don't really know which one it could be, even if 'joyeuse' is fine

That's all, here is where I've got my information, it's in french ( I'm french) so...

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d%27objets_l%C3%A9gendaire s#.C3.89p.C3.A9es

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durandal

Oh, and I just checked out the english version: utterly wrong that's all, the french version is more reliable because it deals with French things you know...

According to theory, it meant that the three swords either had the same makers, were make from the same material source, etc. There were three brother blacksmiths who made swords, two of which made Curtana, Joyeuse, and Durendal.

Anyways, the quote is on the actual sword, and was not said by the game character.
Posted by: Oo Clifford oO
I may have misunderstood you but I have to make sure: it isn't cortana in the game that say " I am of the same steel bla bla", this sentence is supposed to be written on the real world sword curtana ( or courtain or cortana if you want ...)

When she say I am of the same steel it means she was created at the same time that the two other swords ( the three sword were created by manifican and it took him three years to do them all at the same time)

And yes they are all in the same era, during charlemagne life, but they are supposed to still exist today.
Nothing supports that other than the maker of the sword.

But apparently Joyeuse is intended to be the third sword, according to Curtana's inscription and the history between Charlemagne, Roland, and Ogier.

It would make a lot more sense to have Joyeuse.Posted by: Oo Clifford oO
But still, the third sword is not joyeuse(for sure), it is Sauvagine ( apparently)


[Edited on 07.08.2010 12:34 AM PDT]

  • 07.08.2010 12:28 AM PDT

~B.B.

Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi
He [me] is a tall, Nordic looking guy. He could pass as a Die Hard villain.

Games Played = Win | The WorkPLace

Wow. That makes a lot of sense I think you're on to something here.

  • 07.20.2010 6:07 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

While obviously Bungie will no longer be creating a Halo game I did think that Joyeuse and Charlemagne could allude to the next Halo game created by 343 Industries. What I'm about to propose is purely intuition after reading your thread and mulling over the points you bring up.

If we are to assume that the Heroes of the video games, and their AI counterparts, are to be roughly comparable to their "real world" counterparts, then it makes sense to me that the next Halo game would have a more explicit involvement of the Forerunner.

I say this because Charlemagne built a vast empire that controlled much of what was then considered the "civilized" world. It can be inferred then that the main character of the next game could be one of the Forerunner who was responsible for building their empire.

Joyeuse the sword that Charlemagne used to help build his empire would then have a counterpart AI in the game just as Curtana and Duradal did. So I assume it would be a Forerunner AI working with the main character.

While I think it is highly unlikely that there will be a Halo game made that will be told specifically from the point of view from the Forerunner, (the fans want to know what happened to the Chief)I think that it is very possible that Joyeuse and Charlemagne's counterpart could be the focus of the new Forerunner Trilogy of novels that is coming out.

Of course I am backed up by no facts just my intuition after reading this information.


[Edited on 07.20.2010 4:31 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2010 4:26 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: Spartan1065
Long post here
I was thinking more along the lines of a totally new IP, and nothing in the Halo universe. If anything, I would doubt that 343i knows anything about said AI formula. But it's a good thought, nonetheless.

  • 07.22.2010 10:02 AM PDT

Five years older and wiser
The fires are burning, I'm fire, never tire
Slay warriors in the forests, and on hire

The Disembodied Soul. If you think about it, its Bungie's attempt at building their own AI.

  • 07.29.2010 3:51 AM PDT

Posted by: Gandalf: I'm new. And a wizard.

Sapphire just got even more awesome.

Posted by: mount420: You are late.
Posted by: jaythenerdkid: A wizard is never late.
Posted by: THORSGOD: Nor is he ever early. He arrives precisely when he means to.


Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: Spartan1065
Long post here
I was thinking more along the lines of a totally new IP, and nothing in the Halo universe. If anything, I would doubt that 343i knows anything about said AI formula. But it's a good thought, nonetheless.


They do now, lol.

  • 09.04.2010 1:05 AM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

So, now that the swelling in my brain has gone down, let me get the straight.

Durendal = Durandal (Sword)
So Roland = MRN54 (Holder)

Curtana = Cortana (Sword)
Orien = John 117 (Holder)

Joyeuse = New AI (Sword)
Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder)

So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?

  • 09.04.2010 7:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Gandalf: I'm new. And a wizard.

Sapphire just got even more awesome.

Posted by: mount420: You are late.
Posted by: jaythenerdkid: A wizard is never late.
Posted by: THORSGOD: Nor is he ever early. He arrives precisely when he means to.


Posted by: Sector Z 157

Durendal = Durandal (Sword)
So Roland = MRN54 (Holder)

Curtana = Cortana (Sword)
Orien = John 117 (Holder)

Joyeuse = New AI (Sword)
Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder)
So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?



You got most of these the wrong way around.

Durandal = Durandel (Sword)
MRN54 = Roland (Holder)

Cortana = Curtana (Sword)
John 117 = Orien (Holder)

Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) Most likely.
Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) Most likely.

Posted by: Sector Z 157

So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?


I believe so.

I think I'm right with these, anyway.

[Edited on 09.04.2010 7:51 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2010 7:46 PM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary


Posted by: Vadam930

Posted by: Sector Z 157

Durendal = Durandal (Sword)
So Roland = MRN54 (Holder)

Curtana = Cortana (Sword)
Orien = John 117 (Holder)

Joyeuse = New AI (Sword)
Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder)
So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?



You got most of these the wrong way around.

Durandal = Durandel (Sword)
MRN54 = Roland (Holder)

Cortana = Curtana (Sword)
John 117 = Orien (Holder)

Joyeuse = New AI (Sword) Most likely.
Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder) Most likely.

Posted by: Sector Z 157

So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?


I believe so.

I think I'm right with these, anyway.
Whoops, sorry, I had it the wrong way around.

  • 09.04.2010 7:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Gandalf: I'm new. And a wizard.

Sapphire just got even more awesome.

Posted by: mount420: You are late.
Posted by: jaythenerdkid: A wizard is never late.
Posted by: THORSGOD: Nor is he ever early. He arrives precisely when he means to.

I thought you might have. No worries!

  • 09.04.2010 8:55 PM PDT
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Boomer.
Best. Ship. Ever!

I did read through the whole post but I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of what was said.

Durandal The Sword

I thought that was cool. Durandal the sword though a Pfhor skull.

Also Durandal says this in the same terminal where I got the picture:

"Durandan, Durandal, Durandana.

Charlemagne used to always call me
Durandana, the fruitcake. All the many
implements of war to him were in some way
feminine. Not that you know the story.

Tycho never got it right either, especially
the part about Roland breaking me. He
couldn't.

No one can.

I'm certain that you are curious about what
happened to me after our ship fell to the
Pfhor. How after being deactivated,
downloaded into a containment unit and
still treated like the most dangerous
artificial construct in the universe I was
able to escape? And to assume control of
the ship on which I was imprisoned and to
turn it against its masters?

The answer is simple: Tycho was a fool.

But it was convenient for me to be absent,
as Thoth might not have been so helpful had
he known I still lived- that's something
I'll have to explain later when we have
more time. Thoth is now trying to aid the
Pfhor, but they are obstinate and continue
to ignore him.

I don't think I have to tell you what to do
here."


Not sure if it helps but it does coincide with the discussion.

[Edited on 09.04.2010 10:22 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2010 10:21 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

As far as I've gathered, yes. Basically this.
Posted by: Sector Z 157
So, now that the swelling in my brain has gone down, let me get the straight.

Durendal = Durandal (Sword)
So Roland = MRN54 (Holder)

Curtana = Cortana (Sword)
Orien = John 117 (Holder)

Joyeuse = New AI (Sword)
Charlemagne = New Sword (Holder)

So, I'm getting confused understanding the story this all comes from. Are all the Swords and Holders connected to one direct story?

  • 09.05.2010 8:15 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

As I see it, the different Bungie games are their own completely independent story lines. Though they have the same theme, and in a sense are connected in a way.

My MRT thread backs this theory up.

EDIT: A note on how the swords are connected.

In Marathon, Durandal uses you, the player, as a tool to complete his mad ambitions of godhood. Though by the end of Infinity, you the player seem to be the one that escapes the universe, not Durandal. He states that after all that time, he didn't really give you much though. But at the end of things, he realizes you are in fact the only thing unaccounted for etc. (See end screen).

As it turns out, knowingly or not, Durandal was your pawn, not the other way around. He was unknowingly your weapon to help you escape the closure.

Now in Halo,the sword and holder role is much clearer. MC wields Cortana, who hacks Covenant tech, supplies Battlefield info etc.

From what little info we have, I came up with the idea (based of my MRT thread) that: The sword and holder are born into a specific time and universe. They eventually meet, the sword taking the form of perhaps several entities (We only know of a literal sword or AI at this point). The holder uses the sword to complete some epic journey (Master Chiefs does not seem to be over yet), and eventually they are separated. Seeing as how Marathon is the only game thus far to complete the cycle, the sword "dies" while the holder move on to something else... Then they are reborn and it happens all over again.

So, not only is this a formula for the next game, but perhaps how Halo will end as well. Once we have Halos ending, we may be able to figure out the next Bungie IP with a good amount of accuracy.

[Edited on 09.05.2010 8:30 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2010 8:19 PM PDT