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  • Subject: New IP: Bungie AI Formula: Durandal, Cortana...Joyeuse?
Subject: New IP: Bungie AI Formula: Durandal, Cortana...Joyeuse?
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"The facepalm required to respond to this would be so gargantuan that I fear it would destroy me." -Urk

Wow, nice theory! I finally took the time to read your great post and I totally agree with the 3 sword connections to 3 different stories(AI and Holder/Player).

After reading all this awesome compiled info.
I think the new IP theory relating to Joyeuse and Charlmagne is a good idea.
But I'm leaning on the third story about Charlemagne and Joyeuse to be related to the Forerunner and Medicant Bias.

Here's why I think that:

1. Charlemagne / Forerunner(s)

The first connection I make is to Charlemagne. Cortana 5 quoted that he was basically the one to unite Europe and pave the way for further dynasties. That he started what is now the French and German monarchies.

The Forerunner create a prosperous and united galaxy. They had a huge defeat at the hands of the Flood, just like Charlemagne did in the Battle of Roncesvalles. But eventually found a way to seed life again and clear the way for new civilizations. The Humans(French) and the Covenant(German).

2. Medicant Bias / Joyeuse

Medicant Bias has attributes of Joyeuse, I noticed the most obvious one being that he was lost in battle(captured/allied with the Gravemind) and then returned to its owner (Offensive Bias went to retrieve him). Just like Joyeuse was apparently lost and then found by an unnamed Knight and brought it back to Charlemagne.

I also read in the thread that Joyeuse has many colors. Medicant Bias went through rampancy as was discussed and is now in a Meta-state. He contained all those colors(emotions), for redemption.

Joyeuse is said to be in either of two conditions: Buried or locked up. Medicant Bias is in pieces, buried and locked up in different places(different theories about where Joyeuse actually is) i.e the Forerunner Dreadnought from Halo 2/3.

3. Forerunner Trilogy by Greg Bear

Why did 343 Industries decide to get a trilogy made about the Forerunners? Perhaps it was to bring the third piece into the cycle and tell the full story about the Forerunner (Charlemagne) and Medicant Bias/AI (Joyeuse).

THEN,maybe, the joining of three swords will commence. Perhaps by Bungie's new IP or from 343 and friend's collaborations.

Since 343/Microsoft does own the HALO IP, it doesn't necessarily mean that Bungie is stepping away from the 3 Swords theory. They just might be creating something to bring the swords together once and for all.

Side Note(this is just wild guessing):
Why did 343 chose the name 343? I was thinking maybe it represents the Trilogy anthem. Three Trilogies(Marathon, Halo, Forerunner) creating one big Fourth monster. Frankie did say we'd find out what the name really means someday.












[Edited on 02.02.2010 9:44 PM PST]

  • 02.02.2010 9:38 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Thank you, Crucio!

1. I'm thinking that the story of Joyeuse may be meant to be told in two different games. Mentioned before, Charlemagne and Joyeuse embody several Halo characters already; just as we get some of those situations in Marathon.

I totally agree with the idea of the Forerunners and Charlemagne. But I'm thinking that it was intended that Joyeuse gets its own game.

2. Ok, basically what I said in #1. Defiantly a good parallel to show; and I forgot about Offensive Bias being the knight that retrieved Joyeuse.

3. My point is mainly that each sword gets a trilogy. Even if Halo isn't their IP, they can make a new one for Joyeuse. Implying Cortana and Durandal's presence can be done in a new universe. Forerunner probably won't be Bungie's third trilogy. Halo and Forerunner are in the same universe, so I don't think it would really be Joyeuse's trilogy.

Besides, it's possible 343 doesn't even know about the trilogy formula... if it's an actual formula.

  • 02.03.2010 5:54 PM PDT
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"The facepalm required to respond to this would be so gargantuan that I fear it would destroy me." -Urk

Yeah, I Agree, Bungie is not gonna be making anymore Halo Universe games, for now.
So its totally plausible that their next game trilogy will delve into Joyeuse and Charlemagne.

My guess is that the new IP they're working on now, is a standalone game. But who knows?
I'm really looking forward to see what Bungie is going to create next. Only time will tell.

  • 02.03.2010 6:05 PM PDT

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Seems good ol' Mr Hamish Sinclair has been onto this for a while:

Just reading the responses to the Cortana message and I was struck by something. Both the inscription on the sword and the story of who created it say that it was one of a set of three--either with Joyeuse and Durindana or Durandal and Sauvagine...

Tycho and Leela?

Or perhaps two new AIs?



Something else interesting I found on the same page, as usual, I'll bold/underline important bits:

Matt Soell (Director of Customer Support at Bungie) made a fleeting appearance on IRC yesterday. Ever the evasive one, when confronted with demands for the long promised Marathon 2 updater he quickly changed the subject to Bungie's new games in development. But we were having none of it and continued to chant in mantra fashion the list of bugs in Marathon 2. However Matt persisted through the din and said:

You guys have an extra surprise coming down the road.[/quote]

As the room fell silent Matt went on to described how Bungie were working on three new games. No... Oni wasn't one of these... these are home grown Bungie Chicago games... full of Eastern promise. Three new games from three development teams. Matt went on to say:

The second will probably cause great joy among some segments of the populace.

Mythers? Matt replied:

No, not Mythers.

In true Cortana fashion... Matt left us with this little riddle.

#1 is memories, #2 is wishes, #3 is dreams.

Make of this what you will. And no this is not a joke.


Apr 18, 1999


Many thanks to all the people who have written concerning Matt Soell's comments regarding Bungie East's three games in development. Matt left us with the following riddle:

#1 is memories, #2 is wishes, #3 is dreams.

Lots of speculation about what these could be. While I won't list them all here Mike Miazgowicz <VacThok@aol.com> did provide three interesting possibilities:

Memories: Pathways into Darkness or Minotaur? These games are certainly old enough to bring back some good old memories....

Wishes: Marathon 4? You could count me as part of one of those "segments."

Dreams: Didn't Cortana talk about "having the strangest dreams lately?"


Yes. Cortana's 2nd message said:

I've had the strangest dreams lately - raging seas, howling beasts, a Demon folded in black clouds. I believe I know what it guards, and I will have it, to the chagrin of the faith-blinded zealots that challenge me. Don't waste your pity on them; I don't think they would like you much anyway.


I personally felt that they had it all wrong, mostly to do with a lack of resources to base assumptions on. But I can go to my own conclusion about this.

Since this is all related to content that comes after Marathon 2, I think it's safe to say that they had definitely planned 3 games at this point:

1. Memories
2. Wishes
3. Dreams

1. Durandal
2. Joyeuse
3. Cortana

1. Marathon: Infinity
2. New IP
3. Halo

^That's my thoughts on the matter. I don't particularly think that the ordering matters simply because it probably wasn't entirely known which game would incorporate which AI.

I'll show you my reasoning for this thought process, by the by:

1. Durandal

- "Memories" meaning "You get to play more Marathon, something familiar to the memory"
- Durandal has a lot of anecdotes that he likes to share, mostly related to the legends of Roland and Chalemagne.
-"Oddly this is familiar to you, as if it was from an old dream, but you can't exactly remember..."

3. Cortana (yes, I missed 2...hold)

-"Dreams" most likely referring to the dream she has in the Cortana Letters, mentioning "The Demon, "faith-blinded zealots".
-Does Cortana ever mention dreaming or having visions as an AI (either in the games or the novels)?
-"Dreams" may be related to Cortana having knowledge of the Forerunner past; of which it can be argued that this differs from memories because Cortana didn't actually personally experience this history.
-"Wake me, when you need me". Maybe the reference is more to do with Cortana enduring the Chief's cryo-sleep. (sidenote: geez, how lonely would that be?)

2. Joyeuse - New IP

"Wishes"

Truthfully I have absolutely no reason to believe that Joyeuse suits the wishes category other than my own personal elimination of choices. Seems like it *could* fit anyway. Especially for an AI. It's something we haven't seen yet in an AI *properly* being the cause of rampancy, but perhaps Joyeuse will wish to become human and resents the fact she* cannot. Would be an interesting contrast to the name as well considering the AI would become a depressed "Joyful" AI.

*she - I've been referring to Joyeuse as a female because of Charlemagne's mindset that "All the many implements of war to him were [female] in some way"


Interesting development? I thinks so.

P.S. Some really weird formatting went on there, but it's about 2:30 am, so forgive me :)

[Edited on 02.03.2010 6:29 PM PST]

  • 02.03.2010 6:27 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: SonicJohn
-snip-
John shoots, he scores!
Sarsion says:
actually, i'm wondering now if 2. is Durandal
"The second will probably cause great joy among some segments of the populace."
OH WAIT
NO
"great joy"
ooh..

I'm thinking that was his way of dropping the hint. At the time, they didn't have Cortana to confirm this.
I'm convinced this is it.

I'm thinking Joyeuse, here. But if this is it, then what does that leave us with? Are we to just sit and guess until the new IP is announced?

I'm thinking the story would pertain mainly to Joyeuse, and maybe Curtana and Durendal are left out?

  • 02.03.2010 6:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: cortana 5
But if this is it, then what does that leave us with? Are we to just sit and guess until the new IP is announced?
Seems most likely to me. But hey, at least we totally beat them to the punch this time, without any sort of recent ARG or anything!

Go us!

  • 02.03.2010 7:15 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: cortana 5
But if this is it, then what does that leave us with? Are we to just sit and guess until the new IP is announced?
Seems most likely to me. But hey, at least we totally beat them to the punch this time, without any sort of recent ARG or anything!

Go us!
*High Five*

I feel so accomplished. ^_^

  • 02.03.2010 7:16 PM PDT
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"The facepalm required to respond to this would be so gargantuan that I fear it would destroy me." -Urk

Lol..

I agree, this makes a lot of sense. Well done Cortana 5, SonicJohn and everyone else. I love when things come together like this.
I think there's going to be a lot of Bungie epicness coming our way that will use these characters as Basis.. if not, well its a good idea nonetheless! :D

  • 02.04.2010 1:48 PM PDT
Subject: The Bungie AI Formula: Durandal, Curtana...Joyeuse?

Average Joe

UCLA - Aerospace Engineering

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

  • 02.04.2010 7:33 PM PDT
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Wall o' text

  • 02.04.2010 9:51 PM PDT
Subject: IP Forumla FOUND? Bungie AI Formula: Durandal, Cortana... Joyeuse?

DIUTYAUSDPOI

340083 Coagulated Derelict

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Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: cortana 5
But if this is it, then what does that leave us with? Are we to just sit and guess until the new IP is announced?
Seems most likely to me. But hey, at least we totally beat them to the punch this time, without any sort of recent ARG or anything!

Go us!
*High Five*

I feel so accomplished. ^_^
Be proud. This is quite an achievement. =)


*hugs self*

  • 02.05.2010 9:00 AM PDT

Nice theory. I considered the same thing when I learned of the Poem. And that Cortana's name was based on a sword. I never went into this much depth on it though. Its good to see people cruising along the same thoughts!

I also really like the Memories, Wishes, and Dreams thing. Very nice work! It really pulls it into perspective.

This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!

  • 02.05.2010 11:42 AM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: TheHollowDeity
This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!
Since Marathon, apparently. That or Durandal was the only AI in mind at the time, and they decided to go with it before they started Halo.

  • 02.05.2010 12:29 PM PDT

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Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: TheHollowDeity
This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!
Since Marathon, apparently. That or Durandal was the only AI in mind at the time, and they decided to go with it before they started Halo.
Well either they've had this in mind from the start, or we just gave them the idea that would win over so many people.

  • 02.06.2010 2:58 PM PDT
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"Do not be afraid. I am peace; I am salvation."

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: TheHollowDeity
This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!
Since Marathon, apparently. That or Durandal was the only AI in mind at the time, and they decided to go with it before they started Halo.
Well either they've had this in mind from the start, or we just gave them the idea that would win over so many people.


"Oh, man, we are so lucky that our games fit together like that... We look like freakin' geniuses now!"

  • 02.06.2010 3:30 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: TheHollowDeity
This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!
Since Marathon, apparently. That or Durandal was the only AI in mind at the time, and they decided to go with it before they started Halo.
Well either they've had this in mind from the start, or we just gave them the idea that would win over so many people.
*Raises up wine glass*

Brilliant!

Anyways, I'm sure they had this in mind for a while. :3

  • 02.06.2010 4:08 PM PDT

DIUTYAUSDPOI

340083 Coagulated Derelict

"Zombies.Gentlemen at times like these our capacity to retaliate must be and has to be massive,to deter all forms of aggression."-JFK

Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: TheHollowDeity
This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!
Since Marathon, apparently. That or Durandal was the only AI in mind at the time, and they decided to go with it before they started Halo.
Well either they've had this in mind from the start, or we just gave them the idea that would win over so many people.
*Raises up wine glass*

Brilliant!

Anyways, I'm sure they had this in mind for a while. :3


Or did they?

  • 02.06.2010 4:20 PM PDT

',:|

Posted by: Mikey Starr 340
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: TheHollowDeity
This also makes me wonder. How long has Bungie been working on this?!?!?!
Since Marathon, apparently. That or Durandal was the only AI in mind at the time, and they decided to go with it before they started Halo.
Well either they've had this in mind from the start, or we just gave them the idea that would win over so many people.
*Raises up wine glass*

Brilliant!

Anyways, I'm sure they had this in mind for a while. :3


Or did they?
Its a question I've been thinking about for a long time.

How on earth did they get such an awesome story together?
With all the parallels, and the ARGs, and the-

You know what I mean.
I don't think any other game software company has such threads running through all their games.


So...
The theory seems to be branching to their new IP, huh?
If we(yall) actually do manage to predict the general storyline of a future game...
That would be rather epic.

  • 02.07.2010 12:47 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: xLAS3RP01NT3Rx
Its a question I've been thinking about for a long time.

How on earth did they get such an awesome story together?
With all the parallels, and the ARGs, and the-

You know what I mean.
I don't think any other game software company has such threads running through all their games.


So...
The theory seems to be branching to their new IP, huh?
If we(yall) actually do manage to predict the general storyline of a future game...
That would be rather epic.
Weren't they (Jason and Alex) college students around the time of Bungie's founding? Those classes can get to be rather inspiring. I'm thinking that we just had some big time history buffs. :3

  • 02.07.2010 4:35 PM PDT

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urk needs to start dropping some cryptic bombs on our asses.

Something really vague but suggestive like...

Posted by: urk
Great theory, guys!

And I'd be all

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: urk
Great theory, guys!

Oh crap. He said "theory", instead of "theorem!" Now I don't know whether this is a case of semantics and that we are right, or whether he's teasing us whilst stating that we're wrong!

  • 02.07.2010 4:56 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

Posted by: SonicJohn
urk needs to start dropping some cryptic bombs on our asses.

Something really vague but suggestive like...

Posted by: urk
Great theory, guys!

And I'd be all

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: urk
Great theory, guys!

Oh crap. He said "theory", instead of "theorem!" Now I don't know whether this is a case of semantics and that we are right, or whether he's teasing us whilst stating that we're wrong!
Haha! You would, John. Too bad we didn't come up with this before last PAX, then you could have pried him for info at the sushi place. :3

  • 02.07.2010 5:12 PM PDT

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Posted by: cortana 5
Haha! You would, John. Too bad we didn't come up with this before last PAX, then you could have pried him for info at the sushi place. :3
The sushi place?

Me and urk were out drinking together one night! I could've wrangled the info from him then!

  • 02.07.2010 5:37 PM PDT
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"Do not be afraid. I am peace; I am salvation."

Posted by: SonicJohn
Posted by: urk
Great theory, guys!

Oh crap. He said "theory", instead of "theorem!" Now I don't know whether this is a case of semantics and that we are right, or whether he's teasing us whilst stating that we're wrong!


Heh. That is so Sonic.
:D

In all seriousness, you must have pried something from urk during a drinking session... Something embarrassing, perhaps?

I propose that we invite every Bungie employee to a crazy, booze-filled party at a location with a large number of hidden audio recording devices.

  • 02.07.2010 6:23 PM PDT