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Subject: Forest For The Trees
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EVERYONE REPLY IF YOU THINK ITS BAD THAT THE MYTHYC MAP PACK 2 DIDN'T SAY: ALREADY ON ODST MAP PACK!!

  • 02.04.2010 4:32 PM PDT

As a hardcore Lockout fan from Halo 2, I was set to be disappointed at Guardian for not being a true remake. However, Guardian has become my favorite small map in Halo 3, even presiding over Blackout. I don't look at Guardian anymore as a Lockout wanna-be -- I think they really did a good job of making it like Lockout, but not Lockout. Guardian really is it's own map, and it's one of the best at that. I'm glad to know that there are great designers who work on this stuff. Amazing work guys.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the same guy worked on High-Ground and Valhalla... two more AMAZING maps (I think Valhalla might be better than Bloodgulch/Coagulation, despite the fact that BG used to one of my favorite maps ever!)

Always glad to hear interviews like this where I get to learn more about the favorite places where I play. Can the next one be on Valhalla... please!

  • 02.04.2010 4:48 PM PDT

Deviant Art Profile
Home of all my wallpapers and photography.

Co-Founder of Team Pepto
Aesthetic Artist Interviews

Aberrant Designs

Mmm....concept art.
Good stuff.

:)

  • 02.04.2010 4:50 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

The map did turn out great, but something got my attention more than the rest in that article:

"The fight is between players, not the multiplayer map". It's just something that has never occured to me and it is a really good rule of thumb to go by.

Good read.

  • 02.04.2010 4:53 PM PDT

My Best Bungie moment: finally beating all the Halo games on solo legendary.
My Worst Bungie moment: not seeing giant stuffie grunts in the Bungie store.

AWESOME I love this stuff.

One question:

As a map/mission designer, how much aesthetics/art do you have to do? Do you just basically make a fun gameplay space that is all just gray and plain, then hand it over?

  • 02.04.2010 5:05 PM PDT

Very cool.

  • 02.04.2010 5:06 PM PDT

Posted by: T1B3R7uMB0YXVI
Chief vs the scarab? I find that hard to believe to roundhouse boot the scarab's figurative emotion out of the gaming zone.

Very, very cool.


Urk, any chance of us getting a write-up on The Pit? That's my fav.

  • 02.04.2010 5:32 PM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

Like BTB? Check out bigteambattle.net!

Posted by: Viper Skills
The map did turn out great, but something got my attention more than the rest in that article:

"The fight is between players, not the multiplayer map". It's just something that has never occured to me and it is a really good rule of thumb to go by.

Good read.


Sadly they seem to forget that rule with grooves in walls and floors that screw up your grenade bounces...

But yeah, that was a great read. Even though I don't like Guardian, the concept art looks pretty sweet.

  • 02.04.2010 6:36 PM PDT

even though nobody messages me back on these things is that brand new map for reach or halo3 because it kinda looks like guardian lol
Posted by: urk
Steve Cotton gives Guardian a good old fashioned postmortem.


click for full story

  • 02.04.2010 6:51 PM PDT

Very nice look.
I like that Reach has this softer feel to the aesthetics. It's much better than Halo 3's ultra metallic feel.

  • 02.04.2010 8:30 PM PDT

No signature found. Click here to change this.

These top stories where they disect the multiplayer maps are my favorites by far. I always find it interesting to see where a certain element almost went, and the concept art is always amazing.

  • 02.04.2010 8:54 PM PDT

I am an Xbox Live Ambassador so feel free to hit me up with any questions via PM :)

Follow me Twitter: @TheBestTheyHad

WOW! Look at the concept art how can you guys at Bungie mess that up that would have been an amazing map. One thing you guys at Bungie need to work on the most is making your games look and feel Forerunner, you need to stick with the original concept art like the one in this news story.

  • 02.04.2010 9:12 PM PDT

mendicantVOTARY
Votary of the I AM

Magyar ODST 19th Shock Troops Battalion

How glorious would it be to see the Guardian Forrest SP map and "board" guardians? Ohhhhh man. *Drool*

  • 02.04.2010 9:12 PM PDT

AV=http://avatar.coolclip.ru/albums/Avatars/Avatars%2090x90/A vatars_90x90_022.gif
BG=http://avatar.coolclip.ru/albums/Avatars/Avatars%2090x90/A vatars_90x90_022.gif

I LOVE COTTON!

  • 02.04.2010 9:17 PM PDT

Good insight, quite interesting.

  • 02.04.2010 9:29 PM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

Great to see how this map progressed, really would have been cool if it looked more like the first concept art screens.

  • 02.04.2010 11:48 PM PDT

...

Bungie has for the most part stopped talking about Halo 3 in any way so what is this really? Just generic story fillers while we wait for new hotness? Or has it something to do with Reach? I'm lost.

  • 02.05.2010 1:05 AM PDT
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Hoy

I have two main complaints about Halo 3 game play across all maps, both of which stick out especially on Guardian. Nearly all the "internal" spaces seem excessively cramped. Sometimes it's pieces of architecture catching you up, other times it's just a really small room or narrow hallway. The fusion cores effected to make this seem even worse. Thinking about it now makes me realize why grenades were toned down from Halo 2 to 3. This sort of leads into my second complaint about weapons, and I'm extremely glad to see that it is being heavily addressed in Reach.

Every weapon in the game should have a specific purpose, not only this but every weapon used on a map should have a specific purpose and placement tailored to that map. I was hoping for some comments in this article about the original weapon set on guardian. For a map the size of guardian there should probably be two specifically short range weapons, one for each team. Fights for these two weapons would keep LoneWolves interesting and dual wielding should allow the other three players to keep up. Also note that neither of these two weapons should cause, "hilarity to ensue", when it sends your enemies... and your allies flying off the map.

Back to the topic at hand, the original weapon set for Guardian had, 3 maulers, 1 shotgun, and a hammer/SpiritStick + fusion coils. This to me seems like an error on the magnitude of, doubling the damage of a weapon. Thankfully it was fixed but even still the general properties of the weapons don't seem to suit the map. Dual wielding while more effective than people may know, just doesn't make the cut or outweigh the disadvantage of not being able to throw a grenade. The hammer just causes a ruckus and could have been a sword. The brute shot is placed in the position you would least want to use it, the lowest point on the map, and is also very ill suited to work with the bubble shield also in that area. All spikers should be either SMGs or Plasma Rifles. And To use the needler from it's only effective position you must make sure you have a secondary weapon that easily dispatches fusion coils.

All in all guardian has never really been a fun or rewarding experience for me. I think it could do both for me if it were built on a slightly larger scale and if the weapons were balanced better.

Final kicks/Questions to consider:
Shouldn't the power drain have replaced the need for fusion coils?
Could the small map size and CQC imbalance have been alleviated by a melee that takes 3 hit's to kill, each blow dealing 38.5-40 points of damage?

[Edited on 02.05.2010 2:37 AM PST]

  • 02.05.2010 2:27 AM PDT

Lone Wolf assassin

Bungie why dont you get community feedback on maps in production or for DLC cool map too

[Edited on 02.05.2010 3:10 AM PST]

  • 02.05.2010 3:09 AM PDT

Lone Wolf assassin

Posted by: TheBestTheyHad
WOW! Look at the concept art how can you guys at Bungie mess that up that would have been an amazing map. One thing you guys at Bungie need to work on the most is making your games look and feel Forerunner, you need to stick with the original concept art like the one in this news story.


Yep

  • 02.05.2010 3:11 AM PDT

I'm not arrogant, I'm just better than you.

I imagine because with a large fan base comes a lot of twits with silly ideas?

  • 02.05.2010 5:18 AM PDT

Get WorkPLaced!!

Awesome concept pics, Guardian remains one of my all time favorite maps for various reasons, nice to see so much thought and care went into it's creation, then again that's why I love Halo multiplayer maps.

  • 02.05.2010 5:21 AM PDT

There are those who said this day would never come. What have they to say now?

Easily one of the most diverse, and fun maps on the game.
Whats more, its easily the best map for offline play.

  • 02.05.2010 6:48 AM PDT

I'm a serious dude, so what?

Excellent article! I always wondered about how Guardian came about, and something I always suspected was that it sprang from within itself.

To see that Cotton is a jumpy player makes sense because of all the little shortcuts you can make from a simple jump or two. Yet the map was never as olympic-scale jumpy as lockout was. It's nice to have answers!

Give Me MoAR URK!

-brady-

  • 02.05.2010 7:45 AM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

Do The Pit next!

  • 02.05.2010 7:47 AM PDT

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