Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: Check your fire TK retaliators.
  • Subject: Check your fire TK retaliators.
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Check your fire TK retaliators.
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This may already be posted elsewhere, but I haven’t seen anything beyond basic guidelines that defines a tker, so I thought this might need to be said.

We all know them. The retard who stands in the way of a needed exit or teleporter. They kill the flag bearer in CTF, and then run back to the other team. Or they just jump around our bases like kamikaze bunny rabbits, throwing grenades at hogs and firing their weapons at the first person they see. They’re tker’s. They’re a part of life. Team Killing is as old as PC gaming itself. But something new in the Halo PC multiplayer game is giving tker’s an added edge.

When you started playing Halo PC multiplayer, your first experience with a tk is probably not something you want to boast about. More than likely, you retaliated against the offending player several times, and then got kicked for TKing yourself. And if it was their first time team killing then the tker was probably close behind you.

But tkers are growing more and more savvy as autoban throws them. As they mature, their wanton team destruction is reaching greater heights. There are several team killers that need to be addressed that I haven’t seen spoken of in depth in the Bungie rules or the forums. These advanced tkers are the ones you need to watch out for, because they’ll really ruin your game (if they don’t get you banned).

The first is the Quitter. I’m sure everyone playing Halo knows this trick; we’ve all seen it by now. Tkers type in the specific IP address of the game they wish to crash and connect using the direct IP function of Gamespy or another server program. They then enter said game, kill three people, and quit. The minimum number of team kills before an autoban takes effect is four (I think). So by quitting and then rebooting to the same game they effectively confuse the game into thinking they are a new player. One with a fresh slate of Team Kills at his disposal.

There’s not much you can do against a quitter unless you’re an administrator for the private server or Bungie. I’ve gone so far as to offer my assistance to the opposing team when they have a tker. Eight red snipers spawn killing a blue tker would make them think twice and quit quickly. Unfortunately, this kind of teamwork on Halo servers is rare. Best thing you can do is find a new server.

Another type of tker I wanted to address is the Kamikaze. This is the biggest threat to the seasoned player. A Kamikaze will shoot you down to half your shields (a bad place for you to be in the middle of an offensive) and stop. The natural reaction is “You stupid –blam-” and you punch him, shoot back, or nade him. You do this to relieve the frustration of having a team killer but you also know better than to finish him off. RESIST THIS URGE. The kamikaze will gladly take the damage you inflict, throw a grenade into a nearby corner, and kill himself. Why? Because of another exploitable bug in the Halo game code. When you hit him, and he then kills himself, YOU get betrayal status instead of his actual suicide. I’ve been kicked twice by Kamikazes on servers.

A spin off of the Kamikaze is the Body Shield. They will actually run around the map looking for a firefight just to get in your line of fire. The hope of these tkers is that you will kill them accidentally while trying to defend yourself from the opposing team. In the wrong hands, it’s very effective. Avoid using flamethrowers when you suspect one of these.

With autobalance disabled (or if the teams are already uneven like three on four, seven against eight, etc.) in some games, a Jumper tk can switch between teams at will. When on the team of his choice, he acts in a civil manner. But if his team begins to (or is about to) lose, this jerk will actually switch sides to take on the opposition from the inside.

It’s like spying. A red tker has numerous advantages over the normal blue opponent when it comes to combat aside from the fact that you aren't expecting your allies to shoot at you: green triangles tell Jumpers exactly where you are so they don’t have to search (as much), the flag bearer or oddball holder has a blue diamond over his head giving a Jumper easy access to his prey. His respawn point is right at your base now, effectively dropping your “enemy” smack down behind your defense line and giving him a chance to take powerful weapons away from you without your fighting back. If all else fails, there’s the team chat window and he can listen in on the chatter, give false information, and otherwise ruin the sportsmanly conduct of the game.

The pitiable part about Jumpers is that they really do think other players WANT this kind of help. The truth of the matter is that the game loses ALL appeal with a Jumper (or any tk for that matter). They take the skill out the game, for both sides, and the fun follows quickly.

Which leads us to the Passive tker. This person almost never shoots his teammates, but he can make life a living hell for them nonetheless. He’ll get the oddball and sit in a ghost or hog, preventing your team from gaining time. He’ll grab the flag and refuse to score. When he does attack his actions are to the opposing sides benefit. Killing the flag bearer or oddball holder and returning it the opposing team. Taking heavy weapons and your last vehicle to the other side’s base, letting them kill him and gaining the benefit of said equipment. The Passive may not always be “passive" either. They may initiate a firefight with you in the hopes of luring you from your camping position, or start shooting you along with the opposing team as a means to further break you health or concentration. Fighting one opponent with a shotgun is easy. Fighting an opponent with a shotgun when he has a tk for support? That’s hard.

It’s often hard to spot a Passive tker as opposed to a new player who just doesn’t know better yet. It’s also equally hard to stop them as there are no protocols in the autoban system, and no effective monitor to prevent their acting out through passive resistance against the team. An administrator can ban them if he sees first hand how their actions are affecting the team and believes that these actions are intentional. Even then, I’m sure it’s a hard call.

Most of the older, seasoned players have encountered these tkers in some way or another. But for the new player these people and the inherent frustration they bring to an otherwise good game, create a dangerous combination.

The end goal of these people is not to get banned. It is to get YOU banned players. Check your fire when dealing with a tker. In the end, retaliation is exactly what they want you to do. I’m sure there is nothing more satisfying to these deviants than to be tked themselves and then see you inexplicably quit (be auto banned) immediately following.

Remember though; it’s hard to spot a TK. They know (or figure out) how to hide. They TK you, appologize. But before you jump down the offender’s throat, there’s something I want to make sure everyone knows:

I’ve been accused of Team Killing. Someone jumps from his camping position right into the blast of my grenade and dies (it happens.). But I win the fight, so took our teams new warthog back to base…and parked it right where he respawns (which burns because I was going back to base to get a gunner). I apologized for both betrayals but the next time I saw him, he has his finger on the trigger of a rocket launcher and me in his sights. In my case, the person spent the better part of the next game trying to kill me as much as the opposition.

This post was designed to give people an aide in figuring out what’s going on, not to point fingers. If I say it once, I mean it forever: check your fire when dealing with a tker and make sure he is a tker before you start flaming him over chat text or cutting him down because he has the flag.

Remember folks, this road doesn’t only go one way.

In open text I like to type “New001. You are red. Stop shooting red.”

This is typically responded to with a “sry” or an “opps”

If its not responded to, wait a while and watch the player. If his actions modify, he probably got the message and may be too embarrassed to respond.

If, however, the next time you see this player he’s attacking you to cut down your shields…start looking for new servers or learn to live with him (most better players can leave the base relatively unscathed because the typical TK is just….a really bad shot.)

Thank you for your attention and please respond if you have another tk type you think new players (or old) should be on the lookout for.

“ – “ Minus Sign


[Edited on 8/3/2005]

  • 07.27.2005 7:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I got this information the hard way: playing on servers with tkers in them. Watch the chat dialogue and you can usually tell if there’s a tker on the opposing team (or yours if you’re away from the base). With experience, you’ll be able to tell quickly that a tker is among you (and not just an inexperienced player who needs help and guidance instead of heckling). Most will flaunt their tking ways in the chat text; some never respond to any text prompt.

As for direct IP hopping, it’s the only feasible explanation I can come up with for how Quitters jump off and on so quickly. If you know of another way they may be manipulating the server, please add it to the post.

Play fair and good gaming

“-“ Minus Sign

  • 07.27.2005 9:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

You want some footage, check my sig for the montage.

I do know of a faster way to quit and join back, but it takes some advanced knowledge about servers and the debugging console. if you know how to use console, you can use the connect command to join a server from the title screen. the command format is:

connect <ip address:port> <password>

while you are in the server you want to quit and join back to, hold F1 or whatever key you use to look at the score, and write down the server IP address. If you needed a password to enter the server, write that down too.

let's say that i'm in the server BUNGIE-CTF-1, which has the IP address 207.68.189.90:2302, and there is no password that is needed to join the server. the command i would type into console at the title screen is:

connect 207.68.189.90:2302 ""

since there is no password set, you type "" after the ip address. you can type the command when you are in the server, and press enter and have it ready. when you leave the server, all you have to do is open the console, and press the up arrow key. the last command that you typed into the console comes up, and you just need to press enter to execute that command. basically, i can type that command, press enter, leave, open console, press up arrow, and press enter to come back. I find this faster than having to go through the menu to get to the direct ip screen.

if you know how to use console, and need a reminder of how to use the command, type:

help connect

to see how to use the command.

[Edited on 7/27/2005]

  • 07.27.2005 10:01 PM PDT

Don't drink to excess– You might shoot at tax-collectors... and miss

Computer: Power Mac G5 CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (2.2) Number Of CPUs: 2 CPU Speed: 1.8 GHz L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB Memory: 1.25 GB Bus Speed: 900 MHz

ATi Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition
Display Type: LCD Resolution: 1680 x 1050 Depth: 32-bit Color

From reading this and other posts you'd think TKing was rampant. Either I've been lucky or I've been oblivious to it.

Once in a while, I've encountered someone who TKs to get a favorite weapon. As long as they use it on the enemy, I let it go, otherwise the other team gets an advantage while you fight your own team mate.

Other times people TK when they get bored, but they usually leave soon after and it stops.

The other night I was on a server with rotating maps, and when a new game started we didn't have green triangles like we did before. A new player joined my team. He saw me and started trying to shoot and melee me, (it was a sniper game), I kept jumping and sidestepping. It was pretty obvious he didn't realize what team he was on. I was ammused.

The worst I've encountered was in a Team Race with FF off. One player would toss a 'nade under a hog if you got in the drivers seat to dump you out so he could drive, rather than get in the gunner position. He was an ok driver, but not great. He even did it when the enemy was around and caused a bunch of us to get killed, himself included.

  • 07.28.2005 7:50 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This is a good post; thanks Minus Sign.

Some hosts think that turning the friendly fire off or to shields only can help with getting rid of team killing. But thats not true. If anything its worse. It sucks getting repeatedly stuck with a plasma grenade or frag grenaded. And because your invincible to team killing you just can't see with all the explosions around you so an enemy can easily kill you, or you get blown off a cliff, towards the enemy base, or in one rare time for me, on top of SideWinder.

Also if friendly fire is set to 'Shields Only' the TKers just sit back with a sniper rifle and shoot you whenever you're near an enemy or about to grab the flag. That way the enemy can kill you easily with a few shots to finish up your health.

And it happens a lot on races also. I play races a lot because I'm absolutely a pro driver, but, like someone already said, whenever you get in a Warthog some dumbass TKer grenades you.

But its also funny to hear the Tkers complaints when they have a five minute penalty when the die. I think only a ten second penalty for every betrayal is crap. Thats why some custom maps on CE are really great, because the designer made the team killing penalty one minute for every betrayal.

[Edited on 7/28/2005]

  • 07.28.2005 10:26 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

the way i do it is i give everyone two warnings they tk twice and their gone as clan leader i have to make sure i get good players and as anyone else i love to play so i dont put up with it ever...i only have one exception i somehow missed it and i caught some else making him pay for it then i ask them why (not so nicely i have the vocab of a sailor) they explain it to me and if everyone confirms this i only ban the original offender good post man you helped me make my servers much more fun this should be stickied or added with the original

[Edited on 7/28/2005]

  • 07.28.2005 2:12 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Another way to spot a tker is by their callsign. I’d post some, but the ones that stick out would be –BLAM-ed by the ninjas. Derogatory comments, bad language, and racist or profane -blam!- remarks for a callsign can often (not always, but often) be a sign of a tker. If you check the statistics during the game (F1) and see someone with one of these names, no kills or assists, and a LOT of deaths, chances are you have a tker. Then again, you may just have a new player with lousy ping and little sense of decency. The only foolproof way to spot a tker is if they flaunt their actions maliciously.

I also want to say that these players, as for the rest of the world when it comes to lifetime members of the Brotherhood of Jerks, only account for a small percentage of the overall population. Most people are just playing Halo PC to relieve stress and have fun. So are these people. It is the MANNER in which they relieve stress that can make a match unbearable. It was not my intention on posting this thread to have Halo players start pointing fingers at one another. On the contrary, I’m hoping that by creating an open dialogue we can curtail some of the overzealous mislabeling of people as tkers and improve the learning curve so people can more easily tell what’s going on. When you know, you’ll "know". But just in case…

DISCLAMER!!! Don’t run around Halo servers getting shot by a teammate and then cry out “BLAM001’s a Tker! Minus Sign said so! KILL!!!!”

…We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum post.

To SimonJester, the actions you describe are not what I would classify as TeamKilling, per se. They’re just rude, selfish and unsportsmanlike (or in the case of your sniper friend sans green triangles, simple ignorance that probably left him red faced when he realized what he was doing. Everyone makes mistakes. That’s why when God created pencils he gave them rubber butts.). If these are the only TeamKillings you have encountered I applaud your choice of servers. I know these types of players as well, and call them Score Hogs. They’ll kill you in CTF if you have the flag just so they can steal it and gain the point for themselves, horde heavy weapons and ammo and then camp away from the fight to preserve their trophies instead of joining the offensive or actively guarding the base (not to be confused with the active camper that knows what he’s doing. If he’s camping the ghosts that keep trying to drive into the Sidewinder base, I say let him have it! But if he betrays you for that rocket launcher then charges the opposite team to use those rounds for nothing more than four easy spawn kills…he’s just trying to boost his average in the After Action Carnage Report, not win the game.). While they fight for the good of the team (most of the time) their actions are not often condoned by other players.

In short, they hurt moral.

Most of these people settle down quickly and play fair after they’ve gotten that initial “fix”. For some it’s s an honest question of tactics: going it solo versus working with the team. And that’s a murky subject. If he does it once, I’m liable to throw a few choice words his direction and continue enjoying the game. If that’s ALL he does…fight alone, die alone. It’s hard to support someone who won’t support me.

I like your approach grimreaper. That is the effect a level headed (ACTIVE!) admin with his finger on the ban button can have on a game. As for getting things sticky on the computer, I stopped drinking soda around it a while back.

And I don't expect the ninjas to sticky this thread. I'll keep it up until I can't find it anymore but I'm a bit of a lazy bum so you might want to tell your clan members and friends about it now before its gone if you want them to get the benifit. *blushes* thanks for the feedback though.

Until I think of something else

Play fair and good gaming

“-“ Minus Sign


[Edited on 8/3/2005]

  • 07.29.2005 4:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT


Wow dude today, CTF Blood Gulch. 2-2. We have the flag, we could win. But somone kills the flag carrier and goes to the other team. They end up scoring in a couple minutes. We lose.


WTF??

  • 07.29.2005 5:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Thanks for that Alec36, and I’ll be editing the original post to include my response.

It sounds like you had a team Jumper. With autobalance disabled in some games, a Jumper tk can switch between teams at will (or if the teams are already uneven like three on four). When on the team of his choice, he acts in a civil manner. But if his team begins to (or is about to) lose, this jerk will actually switch sides to take on the opposition from the inside.

It’s like spying. A red tker has numerous advantages over the normal blue opponent when it comes to combat: green triangles tell Jumpers exactly where you are so they don’t have to search (as much); the flag bearer or oddball holder has a blue diamond over his head (I’m assuming this is correct in your case Alec36) giving a Jumper easy access to his prey. His respawn point is right at your base now, effectively dropping your “enemy” smack down behind your defense line, giving him a chance to take powerful weapons away from you without you fighting back. If all else fails, there’s the team chat window and he can listen in on the chatter, give false information, and otherwise ruin the sportsmanly conduct of the game.

The game loses ALL appeal with a Jumper (or any tk for that matter). He takes the skill out the game, for both sides, and the fun follows quickly.

I hope this helped Alec36

Play fair and good gaming

"-" Minus Sign

[Edited on 7/30/2005]

  • 07.30.2005 12:34 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Yeah that happens all the time. Not as bad as that though, but everytime one team is losing, a bunch of players switch to the winning team. Just the other day I was playing CTF and my team was down 3-1 than all the player except me and 'BoB1o1' switched to red team. Bob and I ended up holding off on top of blue base against 9 players for about 4 minutes with a rocket warthog. It was kind of fun though, because, even though we lost, we both got like 40 kills and only 15 deaths. :)

  • 07.30.2005 9:28 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT


Yup, i get mad when i start to lose, but i just either try harder, or leave the server.

  • 07.30.2005 10:17 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I only have time to play Halo once or twice a week for a coupe hours. I spend enough time having to leave because of lag or game options that aren't to my liking but Jumpers have made playing the game a crap shoot between fun or an intensely annoying waste of time. I even ran into that new001 guy on Sidewinder the other day...it really is hard to resist going after them though, but these people are really having fun pissing everyone off, so it will never stop...there are alot of frustrated -blam!-s who turn to Halo for self justification and the control they lack in reality. Rediculous!

  • 07.30.2005 2:08 PM PDT

Don't drink to excess– You might shoot at tax-collectors... and miss

Computer: Power Mac G5 CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (2.2) Number Of CPUs: 2 CPU Speed: 1.8 GHz L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB Memory: 1.25 GB Bus Speed: 900 MHz

ATi Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition
Display Type: LCD Resolution: 1680 x 1050 Depth: 32-bit Color

Minus Sign-

You are right about my choice of servers. I generally pick servers that don't put up with bad language or obscene player names, (SOC, COG, CIA), even though I'm not a Christian and I am not offended by bad language, no matter how salty. They monitor and kick/ban for bad conduct, and that makes the game better.

I also play on other servers. I like BG with no more than 8-10 players. Bigger maps are ok with more. If I join and see a bunch of people fighting their team mates, I leave. Also, if it has so many vehicles that it looks like a used car lot, it probably will not be a well run game, bad behavior is likely to follow.

  • 08.02.2005 10:12 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Minus Sign, you are most wise in your knowledge of TKer's. The kind I encounter most are the kind that make it seem as if it was an accident. They kill this way until everyone is on to them, then they turn into the kind that kill everyone on their team and leave. TKers aren't that common, but we you do find one, it sucks for everyone.

  • 08.02.2005 11:14 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Minus Sign -

That was guide material - I'd add some formatting for eye-appeal and PM a mod about getting it listed in the guides sticky. Good job - the forum needs contributing members like you.

  • 08.02.2005 11:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

thanks alot for the comment. i really apreciate it

  • 08.02.2005 7:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

To SimonJester:

Thanks for these servers names. I play a lot on SOC myself, but my ping isn’t very good on CIA and COG.

To DarkRyderOmega:

Thank you and I will be modifying the original post to include a portion of this response:

This is why it’s hard to spot a TK. They know (or figure out) how to hide. They TK you, apologize, and TK you again (and again...and again...and well you know the drill). But before you jump down the offender’s throat, there’s something I want to make sure everyone knows:

I’ve been accused of Team Killing. Recently.

Someone jumped from his camping position right into the blast of my grenade and dies (it happens.). But I win the fight, so took our teams new warthog back to base…and parked it right where he respawns (which burns because I was going back to base to get a gunner). I apologized for both betrayals but the next time I saw him, he has his finger on the trigger of a rocket launcher and me in his sights. In my case, the person spent the better part of the next game trying to kill me as much as the opposition (I had 60 ping so I wasn’t going anywhere). I continued to play and blue continued to lose, and lose players. When autobalance allowed I switched sides to avoid my misguided teammate. I was both happy and dismayed to see the player I had “TKed” call me a Jumper (1. He read my post! Goody! 2. He took away all the wrong lessons from it). On a private server though, those back to back betrayals probably would have been the end of it (me).

This post was designed to give people an aide in figuring out what’s going on, not to point fingers. If I say it once, I mean it forever: check your fire when dealing with a tker and make sure he is a tker before you start flaming him over chat text or cutting him down because he has the flag.

Remember folks, this road doesn’t only go one way.

In open text I like to type “New001. You are red. Stop shooting red.”

This is typically responded to with a “sry” or an “opps”

If its not responded to, wait a while and watch the player. If his actions modify, he probably got the message and may be too embarrassed to respond.

If, however, the next time you see this player he’s attacking you to cut down your shields…start looking for new servers or learn to live with him (most better players can leave the base relatively unscathed because the typical TK is just….a really bad shot.)

On a side note. It has been suggested and seconded that this thread be placed into the stickys. While I’m doubtful of the outcome (as I said, Bungie already has an official definition of what defines the tker, but I thought elaboration on the subject would help) I have contacted a moderator on msg service and asked them to consider the matter and place this into the guides thread.

Until next time

Play fair and good gaming

“-“ Minus Sign


[Edited on 8/3/2005]

  • 08.03.2005 6:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

i think bungie should worry about their servers (BUNGIE-CTF, BUNGIE-TEAMS). That's all i ask, just fix the tking problem on those servers, and i'm happy.

  • 08.03.2005 11:36 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

what if i said i am willing to be an admin on those servers, for free?

  • 08.03.2005 2:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Just played a CTF game on Sidewinder about 20 minutes ago. I was blue, and we just got the flag and were heading back to base. I was gunning, the flag carrier was the driver, and our little TKer (we didn't know until what happens next) was in the passenger side. We pulled up to base, the flag carrier got out to score, but wait! The TKer killed him and stole the flag! Without much time to think, I gunned him down (technically a TK on my part, but theives piss me off, videogame or not), and gave the flag back to the original flag carrier, who rightfully scored. The TKer got mad at my avengence and TKed me several times. The host banned him...I was happy. Do you guys think that I did the "right" thing?

  • 08.03.2005 6:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Mr MA5B: It is my understanding that admins are promoted only from Bungie or Microsoft employees. I doubt you’ll have any luck in getting anyone to accept you as an admin, even pro bono.

To DarkRyderOmega: I wasn’t there. Maybe the driver was a Score Hog and attempted to tk the passenger while in the enemy base, and so was retaliated against. Maybe the passenger was just a jerk and deserved to be banned. The admin of your server certainly seemed to think so.

I don’t endorse TeamKilling in any form. Maybe I’m old fashioned, but the old question “Do two wrongs make a right” comes to mind.

The question you should ask yourself isn’t did you do the wrong thing but, Do you think YOU did the RIGHT thing. Perspective is the key to validation, and both work better when they come from inside yourself.

'-' Minus Sign

  • 08.09.2005 10:22 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2