Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Hot PC+Remove the cover=more restarts
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This was originally posted as a response, but I think everybody might want/need to know.

So...

oblivian323 wrote in respose to Mr. MA5B:
"u could always google it. Other than that u could put in more fans, my dad custom built my pc, its got about 4 fans but even that dosnt do the trick keep it in and area by a window so it sucks the air out. U could also try removing the front cover that should keep it cool."


Removing the covers on a PC is a very short term fix. While it has the immediate effect of reducing heat, it forces the fans on your case and motherboard to work harder by circulating more air than they were designed to. It has the same effect as opening a window in an air-conditioned room might. The initial breeze feels good but soon the heat from outside overtakes the cold air the AC is creating, effectively rendering the AC useless and burning out the components faster than it otherwise would have.

In this case you're forcing the fans to move more air than they are designed to, making them useless at best, or break down completely at worst. Also, the air outside your box is dirtier than the air in your PC. With easier access to components dust will accumulate faster, making the fans less effective and burning them out faster too. Avoid taking the cover off your PC to cool it. In the end, even if they don’t get dusty (which WILL happen) the parts will grow hotter than when the cover was on (unless you're playing in an air filtered refrigerator...hmm)

If your heatsink just can't cut it for some reason try switching to a Peltier effect heatsink or a "coolant" type (another Google; give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to Google, he'll buy online groceries for himself tomorrow and download recipes to boot).

DON'T TRY TO INSTALL THESE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

Air cooled heatsinks are easy; Peltier effect and coolant based heatsinks are the heatsinks that run in laptops and that's a whole other ballgame. But they're also in a whole other league when it comes to cooling your PC efficiently (the air filtered refrigerator league...HMM!); they'll keep it nice and chilly when your BLAMing covenant, running a movie on your second monitor, and defraging your archive hard drive (at the same time).

There is a program called Hot CPU tester (Google Google Google) that might help. It’s designed to detect problems with hardware and (I think) CPU heat is one of the things it tests. It’s not an active program, like ZA or Bandwidth Monitor, but it should at least tell you what parts are running too much (and getting too hot) or not working efficiently (and getting WAY too hot). A freeware trial version can be found at the 7byte website.

There are also a few programs that allow you to manually control the speed of your exhaust and intake (if you have them) fans as well, but I don’t use them for the same reason I keep my box closed (afraid forcing them to work faster than normal would wear the fans and heatsink out sooner). Buy more fans if circulation is your problem; they’re cheap.

Another option is to go to a computer parts website and buy a larger case (or build one if you’re daring ;)). Even an air conditioned room has some ventilation, and your parts and fans will not work as well if they have been crammed into a one foot square cube. Mod cases are designed to hold just about any mother board, hard drive, and power supply so you shouldn't have a problem swapping the guts from one rig to a new one. Add to that, they look cool! Suggestion: make sure you buy steel, not aluminum. They run quieter.

How old is your PC? If it’s been a while, crack the box open (ONLY IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING!) and spray some canned air onto the components. The parts might be getting hot because dust has accumulated on the fans and heatsink after years of use.

Hoped this helped

Play Fair and Good Gaming

“-“ Minus Sign


[Edited on 7/31/2005]

  • 07.31.2005 12:23 PM PDT
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Yes about this. I checked with my father and hes says your full of no offense on my part but ( fecal material) . This is only true if your pc is about hot enough to the point that the metal case burns your finger. That is the pointat which the fans must work harder. yes they do work harder than normal but not to the point of toatal frierization. Next if u have 3-4+ heat sinks it wont do crud to em.
Just makin this clear i hope u dont take offense to what i typed.
Thank You
Oblivian

  • 07.31.2005 4:47 PM PDT
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i set my graphics card so that it's only overclocked when the direct3d renderer is being used, so it automatically starts when i play halo.

  • 07.31.2005 5:43 PM PDT
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ok, what if it's colder in your room than in your computer? is it a bad idea THEN?

  • 07.31.2005 6:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Iamwhie
ok, what if it's colder in your room than in your computer? is it a bad idea THEN?


your computer will almost always be hotter than the room, that's why computers need COOLING.

  • 07.31.2005 11:55 PM PDT
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Okay, I’ve got a lot to say, so I’ll be kicking a big response to this one. My intention in writing this post was to clear up the (all too common) misconception that removing the cover on your case would not harm your PC. Obviously, from these initial responses, I failed. So I will try to kill two birds with one really big rock of a post; respond and reaffirm…a little more sternly this time. Folks, we need to stop doing this; it’s costing us money.

In response to oblivian323 (and all the other headshakers out there):

I take no offense, but I’d like to rebut. The original wording of this article gave no specific time frame for when a computer processor and its components would begin to fail (I didn’t think it needed one; I mean we’re talking about messing with the life of your computer here. That’s an expensive instrument!).

As I said in the original post, removing the cover is a TEMPORARY SOLUTION to a heat problem. Yeah. It’ll fix it…for a while.

But some people may believe that because their computer hasn’t burned out yet that this information…just doesn’t apply to them. To rebut: You computer will not fry today. It will not fry tomorrow. It will not fry next week or (hopefully) next year, but years down the road. Two. The designed/designated lifespan of most computer processors at the moment is five years; a person with his case open will burn it out in two IF the heatsinks don’t fail first in the middle of the night and let your computer processor melt itself like a grilled cheese sandwich while you’re sleeping.

This information came (almost verbatim but not close enough to have to put quotations into this post or risk copyright infringement) to me via an article in the August 2005 issue of Popular Mechanics (page 72 “When Bad Things Happen to Good Projects”) by Ben Hewitt who asked Stephen Miller, the ThinkCentre product manager at Lenovo.

Those are the guys who make IBM computers.

While his two year estimate may have been conservative, I’m pretty sure Mr. Miller trumps your father on PC knowledge. Regardless if he does or not, PM has yet to print a retraction on the hazards of leaving a PC case open and I won’t until they do. (And, well, I also asked MY DAD about this before that issue was released. To be fair, he’s not a computer geek. He’s an electrical engineer with over twenty years of experience in the field and his own internet consulting company. He told me if I ever removed the cover to cool my PC while it was running again, he’d beat me with sticks.)

Your father may just be mixing some of his information up. You see, computer processors (that’s the little chip you [or your parents] blow a couple hundred dollars for) DO get hot enough to burn your finger. If you’re reading this, your computer processor is probably that hot right now. In fact, they can get a lot hotter. Intel and AMD have spent a lot of money designing processors that DON’T MELT the silicon and rare metals they are comprised of (I think the limit processors can stand is around 60 degrees Celsius, but that’s from memory. Someone please post if you know the exact number.). When you consider the heat generated by the latest high speed Pentium and hyperthreading processors or the poor system protection of the older P4 and AMD chipsets it’s a minor miracle heatsinks can do what they do.

That’s why you have a heatsink in the first place. It isn’t to keep your computer from restarting when your PC gets too hot. That restart is a program designed into newer processors and motherboard BIOS to safeguard them from heat when they do (and they do) get too hot. Heatsinks keep the massive heat generated from this tiny chip below the melting point so it doesn’t become a 3 to 500 dollar paper weight (I have one of those if you need further evidence; lets just say I learned this information the hard way. My NEW PC is also a home built [I did it, not my dad] with hyperthreading, a massive heatsink, and one (uno) exhaust fan.

The cover is on at all times when I’m not fiddling with it and ADA only restarts due to heat when I’m running both my processors into the red (which rarely happens; I don’t skimp on PC components.).

If you’re running an older computer with the cover off, you probably don’t have to worry about restarts due to heat. You have to worry about your next upgrade when it dies.

For those of you still shaking your head, saying “no. Not my PC. My room is colder. More air is better,” you’ve forgotten about (or didn’t read) the second major hazard to an open case.

Dust.

As for dust buildup, I know your father didn’t intend to rebuke that. If he did…well, lets just assume he knows better until you say otherwise; then I’ll quote several of the (probably half a million) weblinks for hepa filter advertisers that have scientifically proven more dust exists in the air in your house than there is in the air outside. But I’m getting off track.

More air equals more dust equals more dust particles clogging your fans, heatsink, and any other moving parts.

Dust will accumulate faster. The fans will end up working overtime to compensate for the friction this “gooy sludge fur” creates. Those fans will fail…and fry. The processor will begin to overheat. Then it will fry. Not today. Not tomorrow. But sooner than they would have had the cover been left on.

If he meant that Peltier effect or coolant type heatsinks are less efficient…Google Google Google. The reason these heatsinks run into the thousands of dollars is not because of their novelty. They’re itty bitty little heat eating monsters that blow air coolant type heatsinks out of the water when it comes to efficiency and cooling ability (The Peltier effect “creates” cold using negative electrons…I’d run out of characters if I explained it here. But its freaky stuff *cough*Google*cough*. Peltier makes the surface of the module that touches the processor actually become colder than the ambient temperature of the area it’s situated in instead of just dispersing the processors heat over a wider area than the surface of the chip [what air coolant and liquid coolant heatsinks do.] If you find that hard to believe, Google for science project, Peltier air conditioner. That’s right; a couple of teenagers recently built an air conditioner that can cool a car interior using this technology. As for coolant types: liquid. This isn’t a bunch of metal fins and a fan guys. We’re talking about a miniaturized car radiator for your processor.).

These heatsinks are designed to work without airflow, designed to work in places you can’t even squeeze your little finger into, much less get a breeze. And they are very good at what they do. Well, when installed properly. Like I said, Peltier and coolant type heatsinks are more difficult to install than the air dispersion types so many PC CPUs come with and use. If not installed correctly then, yes, a Peltier or coolant type would not only be less efficient, it might damage your processor. The technology just hasn’t reached the plug and play mentality most PC components have…yet.

So…if circulation IS the problem, go ahead and buy a new fan now instead of having to buy two new fans and a heatsink later. If your processor is already overheating regularly, consider upgrading to a cheap Peltier or coolant heatsink or replacing the existing one (or turning off overclocking; more on the way). The processor will avoid paper weight status longer, and you’ll avoid a hefty check to Intel or AMD.

Question the second: Overclocking and heat.

Overclocking, by definition, is the forcing of computer components to run faster than their designed (default) specs. Nowadays it’s getting hard to find computer components that don’t have overclocking functions or drivers that allow older parts to use this ability. Overclocking components gives you more bang for the buck but at the expense of greater heat and instability. (um…if you’re PC is restarting often and you’re overclocking your video card a lot, instability might be the problem and not heat…hmmm. Try turning off overclocking for a while; the part may just be stretched beyond its limits. Further overclocking might damage the part. Either way, if you turn off overclocking, and your computer works without unexpected restarts, you know it’s probably a part problem or an instability problem…)

Is overclocking bad for the parts? Not really; they were designed to handle periods of overclocking, right? Is it bad for these parts if they are always overclocking? Yes, as far as heat. I’m not qualified to speak about overclocking (I haven’t found out “the hard way” yet) but pushing computer components is a little like sprinting in a marathon. You can’t win without running faster than your opposition, but if you run too fast too much, too often, you fall on your face with nothing left to get you to the finish line. The same goes for your PC. Constantly run overclocking and the parts will sputter, stumble, and give out sooner. Even with four fans in the box, everything might just be running so hot that no amount of heat dispersion can help.

Overclocking capable video cards have become so hot that many of them have their own heatsink preinstalled on them (mine does). There is a case mod that can be done to help assist air dispersion flow. This involves cutting out a new blow hole into your PC case (Commonly, a blow hole is an additional exhaust fan slot added to a case to increase the case's cooling capabilities over specs). Putting the blow hole and fan right next to the videocard would assist in dispersing heat. Google for DIY instructions on case mods or, if you plan to buy a new case soon, purchase one that has multiple fan slots where you want them to be. *cough*KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING*cough*

[Edited on 8/1/2005]

  • 08.01.2005 7:47 AM PDT
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I did a Google last night Mr. MA5B, but no luck with finding an active temperature monitoring program yet. I’ll add one to this post and yours as soon as I find a freeware.

To respond to Mr. B: Good response; this is information that can help people with heat issues. I recommend you post it on the main thread; maybe edit it into a guide if there isn’t one. You are right. When you’re computer overheats, it’s usually a first sign of another problem. But the (at least initial) purpose of this thread was not to address fixing those problems, I’m not qualified to give such information and there are guides on PC repair out there already. The purpose of this thread was to keep people from COMPOUNDING another problem onto the existing one. You forgot to add a little something in there though when working on the heatsink and applying thermal grease: DO NOT TRY THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU’RE DOING. Rocket science this ain't, but neither is rebuilding a carburetor. If you don't know how to work on cars, you take them to a mechanic. If you don't have advanced knowledge on know how to work on computers, DON'T STICK YOU HAND INTO THE REALLY EXPENSIVE BOX.

Thanks and until when,

Play Fair and Good Gaming

“-“ Minus Sign


[Edited on 8/1/2005]

  • 08.01.2005 7:47 AM PDT
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Yes i know all that. And what i said about the case getting so hot to burn your finger was an IF answer. i never said that my computer got that hot. Oh and your dad beating u is a little harsh. I refered this to my dad once again( who has been a computer geek for about 15 years) and he reapeats that taking off your computer front cover will help get rid off heat, BUT it will NOT hurt the proccesor or heat sinks in any way unless u keep it off while running it in extreme humididty and heat. Which concludes people dont use your computers in 90+ degree weather, get your rear ends outside and to the beach or somethin. And d0nt over work your pc either this also causes problems.

  • 08.01.2005 8:20 AM PDT
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IMy Pc is only a year old, and some of my internal parts are about 3 months old.

  • 08.01.2005 9:01 AM PDT
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Nice to see this upon returning - good job guys, and keep it up - this is the kind of stuff that enriches the forums.

P.S. - Rumor has it that Bungie is currently in Development of H3 - and honestly, if I were them, I'd wait to do H2PC myself - the last time they gave the port to someone else, it was a miserable failure.

[Edited on 8/1/2005]

  • 08.01.2005 9:42 AM PDT
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oblivian323 buddy,you are wrong to tell the guy he`s full of it since he made since and your dad don`t seem to enlightend when it comes to PC imo..don`t get pissed dude i`m not lunging out at you or your dad,the guy has a valid point.

Do not remove the front or side pannels of your PC since inside there is an airflow that is somewhat efficient even if you have a cheap-o-crap case like mine and a crap cooler like mine...i swear i`m gona dissown my dad if he don`t get me that XPS soon.
My CPU is an old crap P4 @ 1.7 and it goes up to 56 degrees C or over and belive me that ain`t healthy. As the other dude said,always get a heatsink that is for higher power CPU`s.

But since thermaltake make kickass stuff you can get a tzunami dream case for 80$ and a big-water cooling system for 70$....cool,silent and affordable.

  • 08.01.2005 10:21 AM PDT
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Btw,aM inspire,how do you think ID would hack porting Halo 2 ?

  • 08.01.2005 10:22 AM PDT
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I"m not pissed( dont know y u would think that) I was quoting my dad for what he said since hes been involved with computers for about 15 years. I've already said this so u obviusly didnt read the entire page. I understand that a 55+ degree C computer is not healthy. I am just trying to point out that removing the front cover isnt as harmful as Minus Sighn says it is. I meen sure dust can get in it.
My pc is kinda protected from dust from where it is. Thats all i wrote on this topic for.
So i hope i didnt confuse anyone.
Oblivian

Can we get on to a new topic to argue about


[Edited on 8/1/2005]

  • 08.01.2005 12:12 PM PDT
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Yo people,

Yeah, Mr B is right, if your computer is over heating then you need to update the software, from the down graded software to the latest technology. Some software may not be updated compared to other software.

Spartan 012.

[Edited on 8/1/2005]

  • 08.01.2005 12:45 PM PDT
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Just so you know , it wasn't gearbox's fault for the netcode, it was microsoft's.

The fans in your system are put in specific places to create a flow of air AWAY from the components. If you take the cover off, it alters the shape of the system so the fans aren't creating that cool flow anymore.

  • 08.01.2005 3:08 PM PDT
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@Chewy:My point exaclty,messing with the pannels scrwes up the air flow thus decresing the efficiency and wasting energy.

@Oblivian: Dude i said don`t get pissed that i kinda dissed your dad...sorry if thats how it sounded.

@Chewy again: ''Just so you know , it wasn't gearbox's fault for the netcode, it was microsoft's.",watch that mouth mister or you mite just get abducted :P

  • 08.01.2005 4:03 PM PDT
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U said nothin offensive so dont worry, and im not pissed.

  • 08.01.2005 4:34 PM PDT
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Well, there was a big huge post that had the official statement form gearbox about that if you want to read it, its over at the h2ce forums burried somewhere.

  • 08.01.2005 5:01 PM PDT
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my computer doesnt overheat its fine yey im cool i also have 2.60ghz im cooler ok nvm im acting stupid i think from my no experience with computers that you should take off the sides and fan it i think other people said that already though so i have an idea someone try turning over there computer that might work otherwize i dont know shiiiat bout comps and another thing anyone know any good video cards i have like the worst one i have a intel extreme graphics oh yeah tm uh 845gv card and with halo i cant see the colors of his suit cant see blood or most bullets so please help msg me with an answer i dont check forums a lot bye
~lofiesman~
i kick yo ass in halo w00t w00t

  • 08.01.2005 7:49 PM PDT
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Ever heard of a period? I'm not even going to read that.

  • 08.01.2005 9:18 PM PDT
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1. Yeah, that seems too long even for a rant...it's too hard to distinguish thoughts.

2. If you have to take off part of the case to get your system to an acceptable temperature, you have a problem. There is no denying it. Even with one intake/one exhaust fan and the standard heatsink + fan, you should be fine at stock voltages.

3. Someone asked this before, I forget who...I believe 70C is the absolute limit. It's not recommended that a processor run much above 50C, not at all above 60C. I think either 65 or 70 is listed by AMD as unhealthy and outside of the acceptable temperature.

At 70C most systems shut down as a failsafe.

  • 08.02.2005 12:08 AM PDT

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