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  • Subject: Covenant Hierarchy...
Subject: Covenant Hierarchy...
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i've seen a lot conclusions that the new races will cause a civil war because of the disrupt changes in the caste system, this however isnt rigth because these new races may look new because of their first appereance in the game but they exist for far more time (grammar??). so that conclusion isnt correct

im interested in the position the new races will have in the caste, and what will their effect and efforts be on and for the Covenant. like the engineers and the 'unknown' who knows they might be a new kind of Flood or Humans

  • 05.10.2004 5:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Interesting..... very interesting...

The Prophets' roles in the Caste System seems to be a little bit less of what I expected. I thought that they'd probably just be using the lower races... not actually needing them. But since its now specified that they are weak, they seem to require the assistance provided by the Elites and other warrior races.

And I never would have guessed that Engineers were religious... I just thought they were only interested in science and mechanics... this makes them even more interesting than I had thought. And the fact that they rarely react to anything that is not Prophetic or Forerunner provides another interesting speculation: They (well, one) seemed to be very interested in the Chief's armor (even though Cortana actually told the engineer to fix it, I still got the impression that the Engineer was immensely enjoying the opportunity)... Maybe its just because its new to them....... but it might also be another clue to a relationship between Humans and Forerunners (even though I still don't believe there is one). Very interesting....

Here's a scary thought: Hunters are known for tactical brilliance <shudders>. Just imagine what they will be capable of if Bungie gets rid of the "one-hit kill" weakness..... Or maybe the AI will be so good that it'll be damn hard to hit the orange if they know you're there, anyway...

And that new Jackal render.......... ew..... just ew. I mean it looks good, but man, those things are freaking freaky.

I also love how Bungie specified this "mutual need" aspect between the Covenant races.

Any one else think that the Covenant's religion is like a Buddhist-Hindu splice (but a bit more fanatic)?

Good stuff. Very good, indeed. I've been waiting patiently for this information for a long time.... Thank you, Bungie!
bla bla bla

  • 05.10.2004 5:59 AM PDT
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remember in First Strike when the Engineers repair Mjolnir armor? Do you think they will act as health packs throughout the game? Also they seem pretty neutral to the whole war going on around them. Maybe we can steal a couple engineers for humanity's sake.

  • 05.10.2004 6:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Eotyrannus
Exactly; just because Elites are cunning strategists and warriors doesn't mean they have any degree of intellect, and certainly not that required to run the Covie Empire or defeat overwhelming numbers of marines.


I'm not so sure about this, i think the elites are very, very clever, but we just do not know what they are clever at, because we have no real knowledge about what they learn at school, if they have schools that is. They are also probably very knowledgeable in the teaching(s) of the covenant religion(s). So in conclusion i do not think human knowledge, and covenant knowledge would be comparable...exept in science..... I'm not sure, very confusing!!

And if anyone of the races were to rebel, i think almost for definate it would be the hunters, because, as many of you have said, they have an extreme dislike for the other covies'. Isnt there a jackal that is killed by a hunter in 'Fall of Reach', near to the begining, when hunters are first discovered.

I'm am also not sure about where the brutes come into the caste system..could someone explain, because i just see them as the elites backup! Which i'm sure is wrong!!

  • 05.10.2004 10:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: ggivnish
remember in First Strike when the Engineers repair Mjolnir armor? Do you think they will act as health packs throughout the game? Also they seem pretty neutral to the whole war going on around them. Maybe we can steal a couple engineers for humanity's sake.


I think the engineers are total pacifists throughout the game, they could heal you armour if it takes real time damage in the game, if bits start to fall off.

[Edited on 5/10/2004 10:05:28 AM]

  • 05.10.2004 10:04 AM PDT
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the enginers dont care about anyting other than fixing things, in the book first strike a marine killed an enginer that fixed mc armor because it knew its secrets so if it were to fix it the covies would get even better armor. mc armor is better than elites and if elites got better armor were all dead in halo 2. in legendary i fired a rocket a 2 red elites and they lived! it took 2 rockets to kill them so it would be very hard to kill them. leting them get our technology would be bad if one escaped and told the covies. the covinant steal other races races, they steal a planet and make its worthy races into their armys. they steal thecnology* thats why there so powerful!

  • 05.10.2004 11:59 AM PDT
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ya know how some Elites can survive a rocket? Mjolnir can't handle that. Doesn't that mean the Elites have better armor than the Chief? If so, shouldn't we be stealing Elite armor? Mjolnir would be a downgrade for the Elites, right?

  • 05.10.2004 12:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: ggivnish
ya know how some Elites can survive a rocket? Mjolnir can't handle that. Doesn't that mean the Elites have better armor than the Chief? If so, shouldn't we be stealing Elite armor? Mjolnir would be a downgrade for the Elites, right?


nonononono...in the halo "reality," mjonlir is the best the covies or humans have (except maybe the hunter's shields). legendary mode is just an extreme hardcore difficulty to challenge players--its not representing reality (or..um...halo's reality. you know what i mean.)

  • 05.10.2004 12:18 PM PDT
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I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but do none have u got anything better 2 do with ure lives than to discuss the covenant hierarchy. I love halo as much as the next person but that doesn't incline me to spend hours talking about it on an internet forum. I am aware I've contradicted my own argument by posting this comment onto the forum, but I am at least being of some use by doing so. I am sure that most of you enjoy doing such things, just as I am sure that many of you have unnopened star wars figures in your loft. It would be nice if however if you could think of something better to do with your time like learn French or how to tie your shoe laces while bungie jumping offf the top of your house (halo really holds that little importance, despite being one of the best games ever made). Of course if you do feel that the covenant hierarchy is really that important, then apply for a job as a script writer, and stop wasting your time talking to people who don't ever leave the house apart from to feed themselves and to visit sci-fi conventions to get autographs off Mark Hammal and Leonard Nemoy. I hope this has inspired you to do something worthwhile with your life, and yes i'm aware that it probably hasn't, but at least it was a valiant effort.

  • 05.10.2004 12:41 PM PDT
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The Spartan's shuit is more advanced than the Elite Battle armor, it also comes with a full body Jackal shield. Remember now, that the Spartan Mjonlir armor is only a MK5, MK6 in HALO 2. In the HALO Novel, The Flood, the Monitor (343 GS, annoying P.O.S.) told Master Chief that the armor he's wearing is only a MK 2 armor in comparison to their technology.

I want MC to get that MK 30 (I forget the number) armor. Chief would be UBER, but just imagine how many enemies he will have to face. He becomes the one man army that can conquer worlds. Also the amount of Information Cortana brings back to Earth, it would greatly help out in the Defense of Eath, but as "we" remember... "The defense grid is maxed out"... I guess there are over 1K Covvie ships out there... Also, I wonder how many S.MACs Earth has set up for the defense and the amount of ships to protect the guns?

FOR THOSE WHO DIDN'T READ THE 3 NOVELS, READ THEM or face the SPOILER below.

(at the end of the 3rd book) on their voyage back to Earth, telling of the Covvie invasion, bringing back new (warp) engines, a handful of covvie engineers, and a lot of covvie and forerunner, data, the humans should win.... that is if they can manufacture the technology and have it ready for the invasion.

but as we all know it... 343 GS and the flood will return.... but where and when in HALO 2?

GOLD ELITES RULE (have overshield, jump high, move faster than MC)
HUNTERS..... they are ok.... (weakspot..and can be pelted with plasma to their death....have impenetrable arm shield, Fuel...Rod...Cannon...)

  • 05.10.2004 12:47 PM PDT
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This has not changed my role in life hamster. Halo is my cause for being. I know my purpose in life. To watch idiots post things in these forums

[Edited on 5/10/2004 12:50:52 PM]

  • 05.10.2004 12:48 PM PDT
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I post at work. Is anyone else making a living while writing about the Covenant Hierarchy? Are any of you haters making a living while you hate? No, you're ruining the post, be gone!

  • 05.10.2004 12:53 PM PDT
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The covenant are like muslims on a super Jihad?

  • 05.10.2004 12:56 PM PDT
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This is what I think of the....
COVENANT HEIRCHY

-PHROPHET
-BRUTE
-ELITE (Gold, Black, Red, Silver(Cloaked), Blue)
-HUNTER
-JACKAL (gold, blue) [Helmet or no Helmet]
-GRUNT (black, red, yellow) [Helmet or no Helmet], ENGINEER
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But, this is sort of how my team ranks itself... All by skill, kills, games won/lost (ranking position at the POST GAME CARNAGE REPORT)

1-Gold Elite (Best of the team, overall skills are very good)
2-Black Elite (2nd best of the team, overall skills are good)
2-Hunter (granted to the best tank user)
3-Red Elite (granted to the best assaulter)
3-Cloaked (Silver) Elite (granted to player that is usually not seen and kills)

Anything below this is whatever... they need to work on thier skills and play more HALO
And beat Legendary SOLO.

4-Blue Elite
5-Gold Jackal (w/ helmet)
5-Gold Jackal (w/o helmet)
6-Blue Jackal (w/ helmet)
6-Blue Jackal (w/o helmet)
7-Black Grunt (w/ helmet)
7-Black Grunt (w/o helmet)
8-Red Grunt (w/ helmet)
8-Red Grunt (w/o helmet)

9-Yellow Grunt {THE lowest of the low, the n00bs or ones who havent played at all that got drafted for CANNON FODDER.}

[Edited on 5/10/2004 1:05:52 PM]

  • 05.10.2004 1:02 PM PDT
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The Hierarchy says that the Elites and Brutes don't get along, and we will see this in Halo 2. Civil war, maybe not, but they might occasionally fight each other when there's not marines or spartans around. From the description of the Brute battle in First Strike, John seemed overpowered by the Brute. In fact, he seemed to barely make it out alive.

I would say that the Brutes are more powerful than the Elites, however the Elites have more of a military mind. Which makes them more important in the caste system.

  • 05.10.2004 1:40 PM PDT
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good thought about the secret character. in Halo, it was the Flood and the sentinels who were the other "races" but they fought everybody. What if, in Halo II, we meat up with some aliens who actually side with us!

  • 05.10.2004 1:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mickey1972
bla bla bla


That's not how you respond to any post, especially the post that started the thread. Like Shai Hulud said, if you have something to contribute to the topic, then do so in a mature manner.

Posted by: hamster
I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but do none have u got anything better 2 do with ure lives than to discuss the covenant hierarchy. I love halo as much as the next person but that doesn't incline me to spend hours talking about it on an internet forum. I am aware I've contradicted my own argument by posting this comment onto the forum, but I am at least being of some use by doing so. I am sure that most of you enjoy doing such things, just as I am sure that many of you have unnopened star wars figures in your loft. It would be nice if however if you could think of something better to do with your time like learn French or how to tie your shoe laces while bungie jumping offf the top of your house (halo really holds that little importance, despite being one of the best games ever made). Of course if you do feel that the covenant hierarchy is really that important, then apply for a job as a script writer, and stop wasting your time talking to people who don't ever leave the house apart from to feed themselves and to visit sci-fi conventions to get autographs off Mark Hammal and Leonard Nemoy. I hope this has inspired you to do something worthwhile with your life, and yes i'm aware that it probably hasn't, but at least it was a valiant effort.


What are you, some kinda soccer mom hippie? We're on Bungie.net, sounds very similiar to the people who made Halo. You said that you're surprised we spend hours talking about it in an internet forum. Hmm, funny. I seem to remember the purpose of a forum being about discussing things. I especially enjoyed your little part about Mark Hammal and Leonard Nemoy. By this, are you implying that all those who spend time discussing something on an internet forum and sharing their own ideas are science geeks or however your perspective goes on the matter? Just because we enjoy a good game that has a good plot you throw it out of perspective. Had Halo been a game about vikings, you would complain about us going to reenactment fields or something other. You know, you were right however when you said that you contradicted yourself by posting here. Well, let me tell you something, if you don't like what someone else is doing, then you can just suck it. Pardon my "French" (which I have already learned). I'm fairly sure of myself when I say that there are millions of people out there that dislike something you do.

One last thing, I noticed that you asked a lot of questions during that post, but the damndest thing; I didn't notice a question mark throughout your whole post. Could this be because you didn't really ask any questions? I also like your ending where you expect us to "see the light" and end something we like doing because it isn't worthwhile according to your standards. How pathetic. Get a life.

Back to the show:

Posted by: ApoX
im interested in the position the new races will have in the caste, and what will their effect and efforts be on and for the Covenant. like the engineers and the 'unknown' who knows they might be a new kind of Flood or Humans.


As am I, however I do think that Jason or Joe will have to come up with a good reason for this new specie (unless it is of course the Engineer or the Forerunner as some have theorized) not appearing prior to Halo 2 (and I'm talking about the story, not the fact that they were thought up of now).

I would also have to agree with the post made by ggvinish. Completely.

  • 05.10.2004 2:10 PM PDT
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i just finished FS and it appears to me that the engineers dont want to have anything to do with anyone. they just do their jobs. now at the end, the High Prophet said assemble the ships which makes me cringe at the fact that they have more ships to cream us with. but now we have alot of new information of the covenant including language translations, slipspace drives, and all sorts of different crap thatll certainly help us win.

now as for the spartans that survived? does any1 think that theyll fight in Halo 2?
and what about kelly and Dr. Halsey?

  • 05.10.2004 2:15 PM PDT
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Way to go OrangeDragon.

--

What if the Brutes weren't part of the Covenant at all? And were hired as a mercenary force to guard the prophets. I know this may sound pretty damn lame, but I figured it was a neat idea.

This could also lead to reason why the Elites and Brutes resent eachother. The Prophets hire the Brutes for protection from their own society, and the Elites feel insulted and feel like they're being replaced.

Again, just a neat idea that I had. Even if it doesn't make sense to some of you.

  • 05.10.2004 3:03 PM PDT
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I think the Elites just aren't very social with outside races period. I doubt they'd get along with the brutes very well (or most any other Covenant races, for that matter) in most any situation.

[Edited on 5/10/2004 3:13:43 PM]

  • 05.10.2004 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Justesp
I think the Elites just aren't very social with outside races period. I doubt they'd get along with the brutes very well (or most any other Covenant races, for that matter) in most any situation.


Interesting theory. But I think the Hunters are even more reclusive. Jackals, and Grunts seem to have it out for eachother. Elites and Brutes pair off also. Hunters dislike them all. So it makes me wonder how the hell is the covenant held together?

  • 05.10.2004 3:17 PM PDT
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maybe brutes get armor later... how bout' that??

  • 05.10.2004 3:46 PM PDT
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Thanks by the way zAMMSTEIN... I did it while eating a Pay Day, so yeah =P

It seems to me that at one point in time, all of the covenant were very resentful to each other. Like I hypothesized earlier, I believe that the different species of the covenant were much like tribes, with their own differences and issues. This could help explain a lot of things - one of them being the distaste that some of the races feel for each other. What I find interesting, strange, but interesting nonetheless, is that Hunters - although intolerant of most of the covenant - tend to associate with Elites for their war-like mentality. It's not because of power - if this was the case, it would be the Brutes. It's not skill - that would be Jackals. I believe that if any of the covenant were to be the most ethically preferenced for war, it would be Hunters first, then Elites second.

  • 05.10.2004 3:47 PM PDT
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Uh dude, I think you got the races mixed up its the agile and powerful elites that are known for being extremely perceptive and formulating brillant combat tactics their like the Col. or Captains on the battle front. Hunters are like our anti-infantry armor something like a jeep since hunters normally travel in pairs (I'm assuming that its normal for Hunters to birth twins) brothers and since they are brothers it works to the tactical advantage since they don't want their brother to die so they'll fight like their life depends on it.

Here's what I understand of their caste system from the books:

Prophets:
I almighty gods among the covenent none are shown more respect and fear than these intelligent and heartless rulers that accept nothing less than 110% and should you fail the Brutes are something like the KGB and will remove you from your sleeping quarters and you'll never wake up to see tomorrow. (General)

Brutes:
Contrary to the prophets names the brutes are known as enlightened ones or prophets for the prophets (lol). They are fierce, brutal, and extremely powerful, though lacking in intelligence. (Admiral)

Elites:
Commanders on the battle field that make good assasins and deadly tacticans among the covenent. (Captain)

Hunters:
Not the sharpest tools in the shed not that its required with Hunters as seen several times in Halo even 5 or 6 marines equiped with SSM's are no match for these deadly tanks. (Seargent/armor)

Engineers:
Not really any class in battle their passive and refuse to fight though their ability to focus makes them perfect for field engineers since they can focus dispite the fact that bullets may be wizzing over their heads.

Jackels:
Extremely weak best equipped in packs of 5 or 6 their weak and frail bodies are compensated for by an energy shield. (Liutenent)

Grunts:
The lowest rank and most common caste among the covenent. Given their massive population several thousand grunts can be sent to fight a hopeless battle against well equipt marines only to die a meaningless death when the entire goal was to use the grunts to wear down the enemies munitions and then attack with heavier weaponry. (Private)


My whole idea on what happened was there were originally only a few covenent like the Hunters Elites and Brutes and as the covenent went from galaxy to galaxy they collected some weaker alien breeds that they allowed to live only by becoming the lowest cast on the covenents religous system (like the grunts for example).

  • 05.10.2004 4:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: zAMMSTEIN

Interesting theory. But I think the Hunters are even more reclusive. Jackals, and Grunts seem to have it out for eachother. Elites and Brutes pair off also. Hunters dislike them all. So it makes me wonder how the hell is the covenant held together?


Well, I believe they said the initial alliance was between the Elites and Prophets. They also mentioned they went around conquering, and in some places, assimilating other races. Perhaps, many of the races were forced into the group
initially and then adopted the overall Covenant mindset and religious beliefs that we know them to have. So, maybe they had all initially fought eachother before forming one large alliance? That might account for much of the hostilities between them. It also explain the mentality of the hunters, perhaps they were given a "Join or die" offer? If not, perhaps they simply don't get along, and are just in this for some greater purpose, or to achieve something they all want. Maybe the Elites offered prophets military power, and the prophets offered technology. The grunts got offered land, and the jackals were promised positions of power as well? Who knows. I honestly believe that there isn't some great and amazing reason for all the distrust and roughness between the races. It's perfectly possible they all just don't get along, it happens often enough in life, right?

[Edited on 5/10/2004 4:05:40 PM]

  • 05.10.2004 4:02 PM PDT