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  • Subject: Covenant Hierarchy...
Subject: Covenant Hierarchy...
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he..he..he..I like this avatar
better.

[Edited on 7/13/2004 4:01:56 PM]

  • 07.13.2004 1:15 PM PDT
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well if tartus can, most likely other brutes can too

  • 07.13.2004 3:20 PM PDT
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if all u guys alrdy forgotten, the second book the mc gose hand to hand with an elite with a similar out come as he did with the brute, they both were much stronger then the mc and took alot of shots before the died. i dont feel like qouteing it now but when i find the book i will.

  • 07.13.2004 3:25 PM PDT
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but the elites have energy shields(and i dont think brutes do)and dosnt that protect them more?and if they both took alot of shots,dosnt that make the brutes stronger(more resistant)?think about it.elites arent much a threat if they dont have an energy shield.No ofense to the elites,THEY ROCK!!!!!

[Edited on 7/13/2004 3:56:02 PM]

  • 07.13.2004 3:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: HighProphet
well if tartus can, most likely other brutes can too

Maybe some...but obviously Tartarus was one of the strongest Brutes if he was able to be alone with the High Prophet. Also, I think even hand to hand and no sheild elite vs. Brute would be a pretty even match, brutes are quite a bit stronger, but elites aren't wussies, and I think a couple punches in the right place by an elite while he is dodging the brute would do the job.

[Edited on 7/13/2004 4:44:05 PM]

  • 07.13.2004 4:43 PM PDT

▀▄▀▄▀Project Lead of the OFFICIAL MBT Halo Trilogy Guide▄▀▄▀▄
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀MJOLNIR BATTLE TACTICS▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀

█ █ █ █ODST TACTICAL COMMAND
█ █ █ █ODST LEGENDS (CLAN)
█ █ █ █The Group of the Future....

Posted by: Scipio
I know this was in a previous thread I have made, but I think it's relevant to this thread's discussion.
Here are my ideas on why the Covenant are attacking humans and what the Prophets aren't telling the elites.

In light of Frankie's article about the covenant and the posts afterwards, I have been struck with an idea.
Prophet ceremony and purpose is not generally known to the Covenant population, most of whom simply trust in their wisdom to further the goals and territory of the Covenant.

So the nature of Prophets is more or less unknown to the other Covenant castes. I believe it also said in one of the books that the Prophets live on a world where the Forerunner had lived before they abandoned it for unknown reasons. Now here is where I make a few assumptions. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that humans are or are at least related to the Forerunner. The Prophets obviously know a lot about the forerunner and are in control of the Covenant because of their understanding of and the mysticism of the long-departed Forerunner. Now, the Covenant run into a human ship and blow it up, why? The Covenant have been studying humanity (and vice versa) for a little while before contact was made according to FS. If the Prophets realized that humans are or atleast are the only/closest relatives of the Forerunner, then they'd a pretty good reason for eliminating them.

First of all, if all Covenant castes knew that the humans, with their inferior technology and mannerisms were direct decendants or were forerunners, then their faith in these 'godlike' beings would be shaken to the breaking point. The millenia of semi-worship of Forerunner and pursuit of their level of greatness would seem to be completely wasted if they all ended up as some lowly imperial race with sub-par technology. Plus, if the humans are Forerunner and are the result of some kind of self-induced apocalypse, then trying to attain their level of greatness through the Prophets guidance would be folly because it would only lead to their own destruction. The Prophets are ultimately dependent upon the other races to keep themselved defended, and without those races loyalty, they are vulnerable to the same kind of extinction they pose to humans.

Now, the Prophets realize this before any of the other Covenant (or they assassinate anyone else who knew the truth. Remember in Halo:The Flood when Zammamme goes through all the security checks because of recent assassinations?) and the concequences of the rest of the Covenant knowing the truth. They decide to protect their position as the head of the Covenant and maintain the enigmatic nature of their Forerunner idols by destroying any and all evidence that they may be these newfound humans. That would explain why they go to such great lengths to destroy every single human and their buidings on every single planet they inhabit while maintaining their phoney motive of pursuing forerunner relics and killing the infidels who have set up camp on top of them.

Frankie's Covenant info hints that there will be Civil War among the Covenant races (the evidence is so great it screams at us). The elites aren't keen on the idea of protecting and listening to the Prophets in the first place because they'd much rather just kill than wait for a purpose, so how loyal would they be when they realized that Prophet dogma and religion was all a lie? Read the quotes taken from the books said by the Monitor on Wesker's FAQ on Game FAQ's. (www.gamefaqs.com)

K thats a lot but ill explain it all. The first thing I want to address is the fact that the Monitor is insane. It is mentioned in the books that Human smart AI's only have a lifespan of about 7 years. Even though Forerunner technology is far superior, it makes sense that after 100,000 and some odd years that it would develop some quirks. Quote 1 indicate that something on Halo is descended from the Forerunners. Though it doesnt necessarily mean the Humans, it narrows it down. Also, in the book the MC comes upon a fallen soldier in the library who the Monitor refers to as the previous Reclaimer. Though not impossible to have occured, it makes sense that the Monitor would seek out Forerunners or their decendants to carry out containment procedures, which the Monitor is clearly bent on carrying out to the letter. Quote 2 must to the Truth and Reconciliation, and the Pillar of Autumn is in no shape to fly. It is, however, a Covenant ship, and the Monitor erroneously refers to it as belonging to the MC. This makes sense because the Monitor would naturally assume that a Forerunner would arrive on a Forerunner designed ship and since the Covenant designs are base upon Forerunner technology the Monitor simply assumed it was the MC's.Quote 3 is just one of many that shows the Monitor assuming the MC knows whats up, as it would be logical to assume that the MC knew his own (Forerunner) history. Quote 4 refers to the Covies. Though not specifically named, the behavior described matched that of the Covenant, who had searched the ring-world extensively for "relics" and also makes sense because in the level 343 Guilty Spark Keyes' patrol encounters dead Covenant left and right, evidence that the Flood had been realeased prior to the Human patrol's arrival. Combined with quote 1 it narrows down potential Forerunner species to just the Humans, as reference the Covenant as "the others" clearly shows that the Monitor has no prior knowledge of their existence. Quotes 5-7 all point to the fact that the MC should know whats going on and allude to the fact that he should know his own history. Also, it references the fact that the ethics of Halo had been discussed prior to its original firing, and that the MC should be clued in on the fact that it had been determined that it was the only correct course of action. Lastly, quote 8 refers to Human history and the way the Monitor discusses it it doesnt sould like it is talking about some other species' history but rather the records of what had transpired within his own civilization during his time in isolation.

Two more things that support a Human-Forerunner link. One is that fact that the Monitor and the MC can talk freely. All language translation on the planet requires some sort of link between the two languages and some ancient languages remain untranslated because they evoloved independently of our language system. Therefore the ability for the Monitor to understand English suggests that there is some common link somewhere in our past. Lastly, yes, lastly, in the books there are occasional references to the MC and other Spartans feeling as if they is somehow familiar with Forerunner and Covenant interfaces. There are also references of how Forerunner coordinate systems are based upon natural geometry or something to that effect. This suggests that Humans naturally understand Forerunner interfaces because theyre based upon patterns recognized by genes or something. This also alludes to a common link in evolution.


I made a post on The OFFICIAL Halo 2 Speculation Thread in New Mombasa that had a theory that was almost identical to Scipio's when I hadn't even read his post, It was during an argument about whether or not the Humans were related to the Forerunner. Here is more or less of my post: Posted By: Vasheeth
Dude, how can you be so oblivious to the remarks made by the monitor? He practicaly straight out tells you that you are the forerunner, or at least the offspring, through all the things he says about you. I mean, yeah, he might mistake the mijolnir armor for a low-tech forerunner suit, but what about the marine he finds and refers to as the other Reclaimer? Where he can actually see human features? And also refers to you as the reclaimer? He also is actually able to CLASSIFY the Mjolnir as Class 2 Battle Armor, and as you can see how the Spartans in Halo 2 get Mark 6 armor, you can see how there are going to be higher classifications of Mjolnir armor. I know some of you are going to reply and ask then why is Mark 5 refered to as Class 2? I'll save you the trouble and explain it now. In the future(our, humanity's future) we're going to think that it was stupid that we didn't start at Mark 1. So, we're going to start a whole new classification of armor, Class 1 as the standard issue Marine armor. Then Class 2 as the start of the energy shields in our armor. Class 3 getting new upgrades and so on. You see how we are able to improve upon every Covie technology that we get ahold of and have the time to improve it, that's because WE made it. We are able to use the technology as it was used by the forerunner. Take the Mjolnir for example, the shields are more high tech than the elite's, as they have faster regenerating time. (Yes, I have actually timed the regeneration of each species's shields and found that the Mjolnir is faster.) Yes, I also know that we used improved versions of the jackle's shield for the Mjolnir armor, but I believe that the Jackle arm shield and the Elite body shield are using the same design, as if either one had a better type of shield technology, they would adapt it to the other shield, as the Covie are very good at adapting technology. How come the regular marines are able to pick up and use the Covenant weapons? That's because that the forerunners are us, just in the future. You ask why we're not as advanced as forerunner right now? I'll tell you. Because of the last time Halo was fired. We had to start the evolutionary chain all over again. And why I'm convinced the Covenant aren't forerunner at all?
1. Because that the forerunner would have to be innovative to come up with all the stuff they did. The covenant are imitative.
2. The Monitor refers to them as "the other species." He doesn't recognize them at all.

I don't think that the Covenant have nearly that much argument.
NOTE: I even cut off some of Scipio's quote.

  • 07.13.2004 7:08 PM PDT
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I belive that bungie will not say that the humans are forerunner, because Bungie has always made great stories(Myth and Marathon) and the humans suddenly regaining their ancient knowgledge and wisdom just does'nt seem that cool of an idea.

What if the purpose of the war was for the Covenant to subject the human race and bring us into the fold. Just imangine a Marine with high-tech elite power armor. The Prophets being the arrogant bastards that they are and the humans being the back-stapping bastards we are, would assiananate the Prophets and gain dominion over the Covenant because were power hungry and they are not

  • 07.15.2004 9:40 AM PDT
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hmmmmm...good point. what if the covenant are only trying to get us involved in the whole thing with the forunner and the halos.
about the other halos where do you think that they are. i think there is one some where close to earth. not necessarily out in the same solar system but closer than the one in halo1.

  • 07.15.2004 4:29 PM PDT
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Now about the covenant system. The new race is probably a bull kind of animal that is mearly an aminal that the elites can control. I think that they will be on all fours(or sixes or eights or however many legs it has), with thick armor and mabey a Shade on its back. Just think if one of these things went rampant and started flinging its captors(probably elites) 20 feet in the air then slamed down strait to hell. Sweet!

I hope that the covies' fragile political system holds together long enough for us to get our act together and kick their @$$. Covenant fighting covenant would not be fun like covies fighting flood because when you have plama weapons it is like impossible to kill a flood without them getting back up 50 million times. Elites fighting grunts or jakles would be way too easy for them, and elites fighting elites would be dumb because whoever was a higher rank or had a plasma sword would usually win. But it'd be intresting to see how bungie will incorporate the fact that the covennant political system is held together by paper mache. What if after we strike some serious blow to the covenant(more toward the end of the game)the differant races start to break apart. Nothing like an entire species fighting another, but more like they all split up into differant ehhh.....clans you could call them. Simple medival type kindoms of sorts each one lead by ether a powerful brute, or a gold elite. The prophets I think would be kept as a priest to them.

But as usual this is all just speculation so i could be, and probably am totaly wrong.

  • 07.17.2004 11:55 AM PDT
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The Forerunners have sort of lurked in the shadows of the Halo universe for some time. There has never been much information given out on them in the books, and we only recieve bits and pieces of information from Halo and it's novels. What I have heard of though is that these Prophets and Engineers who are very weak physically, but unusually strong mentally had lived once peacefully on their home world. But in the early years of their species the Forerunners were observing them and then came down onto their homeworld and left technology which was very unknown to them. The Prophet race became very interested into the technology and artifacts the Forerunners had left them, and it came almost to the point where they would kill each other just to get to the information first. Realizing that they were too weak to fight their own battles, they basically abducted other races (i.e. Elites, Jackals, Grunts, Hunters, Brutes, etc.), taught them of the Forerunner and what they thought was their plan or destiny with what they found.

As you can tell the other Covenant races compared to the Prophets and Engineers are quite unintelligent so it was probably easy for them to be persuaded. Now the Prophet leaders had an army of billions and billions of soldiers fighting for them, and each race had a specific purpose in their caste system. The Prophets were the leaders (politically and religiously); the Engineers were basically well, the head engineers who could build almost anything; the Elites and Brutes were the closest race to the Prophets since they were much more intelligent tactically than the others, and much stronger; the Hunters seem to be next since they take no orders from the weaker races such as Grunts and Jackals. Below the Hunters in the caste system are the Jackals who are almost like the stealthy race with amazing hearing, sight and a smaller frame which makes it harder to see them; and at the very bottom of the caste system are the Grunts who are weak by themselves but extremely deadly en masse.

It now seemed to the Prophets that they had all they needed to fight off any race that would come in conflict with them trying to find and observe more Forerunner technology. As Earth and humans began to grow as a society, the humans began to explore other planets and more of space. As you can tell when the Covenant saw these humans who the believe were lesser beings, beginning to make their homes on planets which the Covenant thought were rich with Forerunner technology they became angry. The Prophets saw this threat to their religion and cultures and began to attack so they would be able to wipe out the race so there would never be an interfeirance with them again.

[color=yellow](Speculation)[/color]One thing I found interesting though is maybe the Prophets found something in the humans and their technology that they didn't want to believe. They found that we had some Forerunner techology and were using it. Could it be that maybe the Prophets think that this race could be lets say the "bastard-child" of the Forerunners. But then why would they want to destroy something they are working so hard to find? Maybe they think thought that if the humans didn't realize what the truth of the Forerunners was they could stumble upon something so powerful and great that we could do something with that object that could destroy them or their beliefs. If the other Covenant races found out that all the Prophets had told them was a lie, than then there would be a massive rebellion since all the pain and suffering they had gone through was a for a case and religion that didn't even exist.

If you look into First Strike when Dr. Halsey and some Spartans found that mysterious artifact undergound in Reach the Covenant gathered a massive force to try to retrieve it from them. Could it be that the Covenant though that the humans could be a threat to this object and could destroy it? The thing was though when the thousands of Covenant had Dr.Halsey and the Spartans at a deadly gun point range when the had the artifact the would fire at them because they knew once stray shot could destroy it. But isn't it a coincidence that the Covenant were right after all. The Marine named, Lochhart destroyed the artificat (and himself) after they had gotten off Reach because his feelings for a lady pilot killed by the Covenant were strong enough to make him destroy it. If the Covenant had gotten ahold of it though the humans chances of winning the war would be hopeless. Was it a good thing that the artifact was destroyed, or was it the wrong thing to do because one mans feelings got in the way of his judgemeant?

What bothers me though is that no matter how many times we look into these clues it seems like it always leads to a dead end. We need more information to be able to have a way to clarify just a bit of this information so we wouldn't always have to speculate on "dead-end" facts. Hopefully when Halo 2 and possibly another book come out we can get some of these things cleared up for once.

  • 07.17.2004 1:07 PM PDT