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This topic has moved here: Subject: Has Bungie outgrown the Bungie.net forums?
  • Subject: Has Bungie outgrown the Bungie.net forums?
Subject: Has Bungie outgrown the Bungie.net forums?
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Wow, i'm not on B.net for 2 days and i miss all the great conversations :(

Well, i read most of all the replies, and there was quite alot to quote, so instead of just blending in (yes, i did buy a new blender), i'll just throw in my opinions (regarding original post, mostly).

I used to like B.net alot, more than that actually. yes, it was indeed like a small town and i like simply like that better than big city's.
One of the reasons are the members, back in the ol' days, most members were mature (not in ages). Sure there were a few nutcases hanging around, but you will always have them.
Anyway, like i said most members were mature, the reason for this is: in those days all Bungie games pretty required some form of intelligence (not counting gnop), and Bungie simply was a small company.
With Halo and Halo 2 however, Bungie joined with the big boys. And when you're being hyped up , well you are going to attract people, and people who are attracted by hypes.... sigh.

Anyway, all these people that came to B.net are less mature (most of them), heck, halo and halo 2 don't really require intelligence, just great reflexes. i don't like Bungie.net tat much anymore, too much spam, too many flames, repeating topics, full of idiots etc, etc, etc.

But Bungie.net isn't a small town anymore, it's a big city. Some people like to live in a small town, other in the city.

So how do we operate this big city? More mods would be welcome, better guidelines for the mods(?), less forums etc etc. Well, i'm not sure if that will work. You can't turn this place into a brainless dictatorship. this is a community site, and that means community stuff is required, that means many forums, not too strict rules etc.

One thing that we ofcourse could have is the rumoured karma sytem (as long as it can't be abused), or some system that will reward all those brilliant members out there. but where do we draw the line? Will everything become elitists, not giving new members a chance? you know what i mean.

This isn't the old B.net anymore, it's something new, this indeed means new sytems to run it, but it does have to work, and it still got to have that Bungie feeling to it, and not some EA or Xbox.com feeling.

ps. at time of writing i'm a little drunk, sort of , so neglect all the Bullcrap in it.

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 1:57 PM PDT
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YOU!
Posted by: Tech0ne7
Rehabilitation. We could have a re-hab group. Mods ban someone and send them to a re-hab group in teh 7th column. There is a big staff run by like septagon regs and the person must complete the "course" or soemthing before the ban gets lifted. The policy could be, "if your here, your here, and stuck til you earn you way out." you know? so people dont say "i didnt do anything"

This could help clear the forums a bit. Those who are blacklisted have to learn about what they did and whatnot. It could be a little more work on tehmods becuase they would have to PM the staff to say what that person did.

I dunno, it thought of this back on page 2 of this sucker. It jut sounds like an intereting idea. As chris would most likely say "its cute"...
YOU!

  • 08.19.2005 2:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: KeyserNI
There are only a certain number of members I respect and they are the only one's I take seriously. If someone asks a question and I have the answer then I give it to them. If someone flames I ask why. I try to be a decent member what more can I do. Almost everyone that reads this and posts will be a decent member because they took the time to read all the way to the end but most of the wrong doers don't enter the Septagon because they receive do encouragement for there actions.


Well said and I agree with Psyched, we are going to have to pull ourselves out of this mess.

  • 08.19.2005 3:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos

Microsoft already has lots of faceless, empty, corporate web sites for its games (xbox.com, support.microsoft.com). We don't want to be that. Our goal is to be a community site that brings to the table stuff fan-run community sites can't due to the fact that this is our site and we made the game!


lol, I think your on Bill's enemy list now.

Posted by: Gnome
The Karma system would be great for the forums although i think for the best of it, only the Moderators should have the power to give them to members, and once pass a certain number of points that member should the power to give karma points. If you give them to just every member, the system will undoubtedly be abused and crumble.


I would have to agree.

Who are you really CinderSkip because you only recently made that account and i'am positive you've been a member of bungie.net for a lot longer under a differant name.

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 3:20 PM PDT
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I'm gone for a couple weeks and it gets all civilized in here. Did I smell? I believe that organization and the willingness to keep working for something great is key. While the mods and community people do their jobs, the fate of this community rests in the hands of it's residents. May this thread be an example to all others who may follow. To the poster of this thread and all who replied, you are the reason I keep logging in. Thank you.

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 3:36 PM PDT
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The members who are posting maturely in this thread show that there is still dignity left in Bungie.net, infact it shows that there are a lat of mature members left as well as dignity left, don't let the poor actions of a few members give you the impression that the forums have gone to ****. Infact I think Bungie is doing just fine. Sure there are still a few issues but they get solved with the help of mature members the moderators and Bungie employees.

  • 08.19.2005 3:45 PM PDT
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The best I can summarize is a famous quote

"Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now"

Peace brothers, mabey a spartans across america telethon?

But really, It sounds like a new group in the community could be formed for those looking to help the 7th colomn take over the world, in a way that is mature and has dignity, and random acts of silliness to keep it fresh.

Sorry this in no way helps what the poster of the thread was going for. You all just seem to have similar views and attitudes and should be unified some how. I'll shut up now.

*bows head in shame*

  • 08.19.2005 3:58 PM PDT

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شون

I just happen to enjoy these forums. They are actually like the real world in a way. You have the spammers who like to ruin everyone elses fun (which they don't really do a very good job of), and when they attack, we all get over it like it never happened. We all live in a democratic system on this site (we have polls, don't we?), and I like how this place is run.

Sure, we can sometimes have a huge arguement, but no site is perfect, right? As many other people have stated, this is more of a fun loving, community site as opposed to a boring, bland support site. In fact, this can almost be considered a fan-run site, especially seeing how most of the friendly users on here like to lend a helping hand to someone who's have trouble on his Xbox.

This site is still (basically) in its childhood, and it still needs time to grow and mature. Suggestions are put out daily on how to improve the site (Hint-Septagon-Hint), and it will never reach it's peak of efficiency. But otherwise, I do beleive that this site is still getting better, and has improved vastly since people started complaining about Halo 2.

Nobody will live to see the day when this site is "perfect", not even God himself. But of course, Bungie is striving to get this site as close to "perfect" as it can get, and I know that maybe ten years from now, this site will be much more improved over what it is now. Hopefully, that feeling of fun on Bunie.net will not diminish, but if it does, I would much rather have a great site like this than some trite support site anyday.

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 4:09 PM PDT
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I could get to work on a group like that and any mod that joins will get full control and I'll just be a normal member unless they say otherwise.

  • 08.19.2005 4:12 PM PDT
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btw what should it be called?


HERE is not the place to tell me suggestions PM me with ideas for names.

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 4:15 PM PDT
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A lot of what I am saying is just playing devil's advocate. I have played it as straight as possible because I think these are serious questions that need to be thought about.

Not to spoil the discussion at this point, but I shall reveal some of my true beliefs:

Bungie.net is an incredibly rare thing, but just among gaming sites but the web in general. Fark.com is the only other community that I have any desire to interact with regularly.

The mods do a great job. I don't believe adding more mods would make much of a difference. I do think a clear way of reporting problems would help. A button that PMs any signed in mod or some such. It would at least give folks the feeling like they did have an easy way to respond. It could also be abused. "Mod! Come talk to me!"

I don't really want Bungie.net to become a "corporate" type site. I do think that there is confusion as to what Bungie.net wants to be. It will find its way.

I do think The Flood is needed. I also think that it, Zanzibar and Optimatch sometimes feels like it has been left to the wolves. And when they do find a path, it is sometimes an inapprobriate path. And that is the time any sort of authoruty comes in. And it feels as if angry dad has arrived. I'm not sure how to fix this. The "mature" member maybe have to take more of a role.

Spam is an issue because it is annoying but it is easy to ignore. Posts that are so designed to incite can some imes be a good thing. Often they are made just to get attention. But sometimes you feel you have to respond because to just ignore it is sometimes a way of saying it is okay. (I point to the example of a poster who reapeatidly posted about being happy about the London bombings the day after they happened. A week later he returned, with the same account and started again. Both times his posts remained up for hours. I was never clear why he did not get a perma ban the first time. While I realize it doesn't stop someone from making a new account, it seems the reight message to send.) So certain posts are going to draw fire and deserve to. These are cases when the line becomes very hard for the mods to deal with.

I do worry about newer members not feeling like they are getting feedback. This comes from my experience in marketing and PR. I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps a searchable database of support issues. A very comprehensive, regularly updated FAQ. In all my time here I still have problem tracking done "How do I link my GT" when I want to put up a link as an answer.

Oh, there are probably more stuff to say but I literally have cookies in the oven and the bell rang.

  • 08.19.2005 5:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: CinderSkip
The mods do a great job. I don't believe adding more mods would make much of a difference. I do think a clear way of reporting problems would help. A button that PMs any signed in mod or some such. It would at least give folks the feeling like they did have an easy way to respond. It could also be abused. "Mod! Come talk to me!"

Sort of like Bnetmods@gmail.com?


I do think The Flood is needed. I also think that it, Zanzibar and Optimatch sometimes feels like it has been left to the wolves. And when they do find a path, it is sometimes an inapprobriate path. And that is the time any sort of authoruty comes in. And it feels as if angry dad has arrived. I'm not sure how to fix this. The "mature" member maybe have to take more of a role.
Well, its hard for members to act mature when in respons they recive "WTF, yoo just n00b!!!!elven!!!one!!" or what ever.

Often they are made just to get attention.
Ahh...the attention whores, where would we be with out them? ::)

Oh, there are probably more stuff to say but I literally have cookies in the oven and the bell rang.
Ding!

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 6:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: CinderSkip
I am suggesting that they make it a lot more "corporate." Make clearer forums. Remove the flood. Make it a customer support site and not a commmunity center. Put it a lot more controls that are not so arbitrary. Sure, keep "groups."
It is not just spam. It is also totally well meaning folks who think they are part of the community is some way but discover that they aren't. The community is way to diverse to be run by itself. Sure a town with a population of 1000 can function pretty well with just a sheriff. New York needs police helicopters.


How about a corporate portion and a fan portion? Solving both problems at once.

  • 08.19.2005 7:00 PM PDT
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Or instead of getting rid of forums add one about Bungie Support!

  • 08.19.2005 7:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: CinderSkip
Bungie.net is an incredibly rare thing, but just among gaming sites but the web in general. Fark.com is the only other community that I have any desire to interact with regularly.


Correct, I've been to GameSpot and many other sites, they are either of three things.

1. Inactive, or lack of therefore, having dead forums.

2. Full of rubbish, when I mean full of Rubbish I mean full of Rubbish... so much so they make the Flood seem like general discussion in comparison (no offence, I actually like the Flood forum). Like at GameSpot the antics in the forums are out of control. Oh and at some other sites like a particular BattleTech games site I go to, the site's so called "Spam Forum" was locked due to it being overcrowded with thousands of pointless threads.

3. Not maintained properly, as in the forums are fine, just the site is dead. The site has link problems, missing or corrupted downloads, or hasn't seen an update in months.

I'm happy to say, apart from the situation in 2 of the 3 Halo 2 forums here at Bungie.net this site suffers from none of those problems.

Posted by: CinderSkip
The mods do a great job. I don't believe adding more mods would make much of a difference. I do think a clear way of reporting problems would help. A button that PMs any signed in mod or some such. It would at least give folks the feeling like they did have an easy way to respond. It could also be abused. "Mod! Come talk to me!"


That has been done on many other websites, such as the official Pariah forums, and it works too. I remember someone who tried to spam their forums with pointless dribble, and offensive pointless dribble at that. I reported him using that inform the mods button and I submitted a reason why I reported them in the report button report system. And the next day that person was banned. I think there should be a “give reason for report” slip that goes with it to:

1. Give a good reason why they were reported.
2. Make life easier for the mods since now they have a reason to investigate the problem.

This will cut down the time it takes to deal with problems greatly, as the standard PM system is non reliable as not all the moderators are on at the same time. In other words it cuts down problem solving time.

Posted by: CinderSkip
I don't really want Bungie.net to become a "corporate" type site. I do think that there is confusion as to what Bungie.net wants to be. It will find its way.


I still don’t understand all this "corporate" type site stuff. If by what you mean like what some sites for games are as in just a little flash with a list of prices and some news posts like the official site for Dawn of War then no, not a good idea I agree, it discourages people from wanting to improve the community and also leads to other sites being made outside the influence of the developers. Maybe not in the case for Relic as they have a community site, but setting up such settings can confuse the community, and as such I thought that whole www.halo2.com.au site was a bad move but that was my opinion.

Posted by: CinderSkip
I do think The Flood is needed. I also think that it, Zanzibar and Optimatch sometimes feels like it has been left to the wolves. And when they do find a path, it is sometimes an inapprobriate path. And that is the time any sort of authoruty comes in. And it feels as if angry dad has arrived. I'm not sure how to fix this. The "mature" member maybe have to take more of a role.


I wonder about those forums, I see 3 things.
1. People trying to get attention though any means.

2. People who seek a quick solution and don’t bother to notice the difficulties in the situation. (Refiring to the cheaters problem and other things).

3. People who appear to care little about the community and more about posting pointless material because they think they are cool and all that because they can be idiots (omg what the?). Most threads I don’t even bother posting in because it’s a waste of time really.

Posted by: CinderSkip
Spam is an issue because it is annoying but it is easy to ignore. Posts that are so designed to incite can some imes be a good thing. Often they are made just to get attention. But sometimes you feel you have to respond because to just ignore it is sometimes a way of saying it is okay. (I point to the example of a poster who reapeatidly posted about being happy about the London bombings the day after they happened. A week later he returned, with the same account and started again. Both times his posts remained up for hours. I was never clear why he did not get a perma ban the first time. While I realize it doesn't stop someone from making a new account, it seems the reight message to send.) So certain posts are going to draw fire and deserve to. These are cases when the line becomes very hard for the mods to deal with.


The difference between spammers and say the person who posts “woo oh I like fudge and this is crazy unk” on the forum is the difference between a 10 year old who is bored and a 5 year old who is bored, I’ll let you discern the difference.

Posted by: CinderSkip
I do worry about newer members not feeling like they are getting feedback. This comes from my experience in marketing and PR. I'm not sure how to fix this. Perhaps a searchable database of support issues. A very comprehensive, regularly updated FAQ. In all my time here I still have problem tracking done "How do I link my GT" when I want to put up a link as an answer.


With a site this big that’s a needed thing, but the problem is, when a site gets this big its also a difficulty, I have a friend who works at GameSpot, he says the webmaster there pulls his hair out daily, (not his I meant the webmaster pulls out his own hair).

[Edited on 8/20/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 7:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: lellowranger
No, the flood stays. I'm sorry but that is a requirement. Frankly that would be an atrocity to the forums if you took away the flood. I just think we need more mods, and one or two mods taking shifts or something to each forum. We can still keep some personality what the hell do you think Frankie's for?



He's the eye candy, 'nuff said.

  • 08.19.2005 7:23 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

I came over here from the IGN and Xbox forums(stay away), having no idea what a forum is really supposed to be like, and i bad mouthed mods and people with the best of them. i didnt care, it was damn forum, and i only went there to yell at people for posting stupid things. But, then i signed up here(about 9 months after i first came here), and it was so different. The first thread i went into was by Shai Hulud here in the Septagon. Soon after i ran into Banshee Barron, Shishka, Yoozel and Stosh(the only noteworthy members here today that i remember)and being the intelligent posters they are, showed me how organized and tight knit the community was here. that was December 03(Frankie had signed up six hours before me). It was so different from the IGN forums(think all forums are Flood-type forums with game names). These forums kick ass, and sadly, the kickassery had diminished since then. The level of asskickage needs to be restored.

Sketch's karma system, as well as a couple exclusive forums and some new mods would help turn it back to the old B.net we all love. may seem elitist, but as i stated before, the only people who would balk are the ones who we wouldnt want here anyways.

I'm sure everyone who's been here as long as i have(and even longer) wont be leaving anytime soon. this place needs help getting back on its feet, and we're the ones who have to do it.

[Edited on 8/19/2005]

  • 08.19.2005 9:23 PM PDT
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Most people simply don't know how to act in a community based forum such as this. I did join in November 2003, but I never found the forums until a week before the New Hawtness was rolled out. I had never been involved in any forum until that point. It took me a mere 2 mintues to figure out how to behave, how to blend in, and who was a respected member of the community. I followed from example that others set before me. Now if anyone out there today falls into a similar predicament, they will most likely run off to Zanzibar because they probably want to talk about Halo 2 multiplayer. Unfortunately, they really don't get a taste of the real community, they simply see the members who frequent Zanzibar. Supposedly they'd stay there because that's all they came here for, Halo 2.

But obviously the regulars here are more mature, or at least, there are different ratios of dim-witted members to mature members. So while people are at some point going to tire of Zanzibar, those who retreat would fail to notice the other forums, or would not be interested. Someone or something should catch thier attention and point them in another direction. If that person then finds nothing in it to stick around Bungie.net, he should be allowed to leave.

If CinderSkip is worried about a weak community, then maybe (s)he could help direct people in the right direction, and not just him/her, but everybody. After all, a community can't grow without support, especially from the regular members.

11 hours spent driving today, I can only procure mindless drivel.

  • 08.19.2005 9:55 PM PDT
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Forgive the analogy, but we are like one of those cheerleader triangles. We all hold each other up. If someone doesn't do their part then it starts to fall. Then the ninjas in a swift movement hold it back up again, and hand it back to the ever diligent member....You know what I mean.....my head hurts

  • 08.20.2005 6:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: BLINGMAN
Forgive the analogy, but we are like one of those cheerleader triangles. We all hold each other up. If someone doesn't do their part then it starts to fall. Then the ninjas in a swift movement hold it back up again, and hand it back to the ever diligent member....You know what I mean.....my head hurts


So does mine.

Alot of the things cinder is suggesting are already here. Is it a matter of raising awareness?

And Cinder once agian I wonder who your are. I wouldn't be surpirsed if it was indeed a bungie.net employee.

[Edited on 8/20/2005]

  • 08.20.2005 6:09 AM PDT
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I just noticed cinderskip is now blacklisted. WTF? I must have missed something. Did he do something on a diferent thread. Doesn't seem like the type.

  • 08.20.2005 6:20 AM PDT