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Subject: Crazy Theory (Forerunner and Humans)
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I posted this somewhere else, but decided to share it here too since I have the time.

Time Travel Theory

The Forerunner created the Halo's. No doubt about that. Also it is known that the Halo destruction sequence was used once before wiping out all life that can be a host for the Flood. This happened many many years ago. The Forerunner are no longer around. Their installations are empty, and their nowhere to be found, or are they?

It has already been mentioned that Forerunner could be ancestors of the Humans. Yada-yada, but heres my wacky theory, It's hard to explain, but stay with me. What if the Forerunner are the Humans? What if it's us Human's who set off Halo in the first place? We also built Halo. Think about it like this. Einstin said that Time and Space is connected. What if us humans accidentally (or maybe not?) messed around with time at one point in our history/future? We wanted to meddle around with Earth's past, so we built Halo and wanted to study the Flood for a better outcome in mandkinds future. Then the human race could return to their modern time, or maybe a past time and change the course of human history. Possibly Human's don't win the war with the Covanent, and we know this, so we go through time to try and change it.

Possibly right before the entire human race is wiped out by the Covanent, a large group of humans (including our hero Master Cheif) travel back in time some how on a planet like Reach where everything is stable for life, you know, a calm planet. Once there, they build Halo for us humans later on. In other words, Master Cheif helps build Halo so his future self can later use it to win the war 100,000+ years later. This would explain why 343 Guilty Spark refers to him as "Reclaimer". Master Cheif has returned to "Reclaim" his instalation. Once Halo was completed, it became their home (Master Cheif's and whoever else traveled through time), and the humans from the future implemented real time weather simulations for two reasons. 1). To be more suitable to live in. And 2). To feel more like Earth.

If this theory is true, then The Flood will somehow come in handy later on. Unless of course while traveling back in time a Flood was able to sneak in through the warp and hide. That would explain how they got there in the first place. The AI construct, 343GS, was created to help manage the Flood and to guide the future MC upon his arrival. The Flood were kept because they scare off Covanent, and maybe for some other reason we'll find out later. Also, over the years, human influence on the early Covanent (Covanent 100,000 years before the 26th century war we're fighting now) could have also tipped the table into our favor in the distant future. It's also interesting to ponder this though; Before MC changes the fate of mandkind, what were the Covanent like? If they basically copied every form of technology from the Forerunner (MC and the other humans from the future), then what were they like in a time when no Forrunner exsisted? Quite possibly (yes, here comes another wacky theory) we grabbed ourselves a victory at the cost of screwing up a good allience. In other words, maybe the Covanent in this other (alternate) reality were teamed up with the Humans to fight the Flood. So, maybe it wasn't just humans, and Master Cheif who went into the past, but also the Covanent. This would explain why the technology on Halo is similar to all Covanent technology, but looks and feels like something made by a Human. Weather for instance is very Human-like, and structures made of what looks like metal while the Covanent usually never use metal, but rather some purple material you see everywhere from on their Tanks to their major ships.

When 343GS says "Our Lost Times" it makes perfect sense with this theory. I mean, Master Cheif HAS been away for hundreds of thousands of years.

Now, to help my theory work, I gathered some transcripts from the HBO site that 343 Guilty Spark says.

"(pauses) More or less. Technically, this installation's pulse has a maximum effective radius of twenty-five thousand light years. But, once the others follow suit, this galaxy will be quite devoid of life, or at least any life with sufficient biomass to sustain the flood. (pause) But you already knew that. I mean, how couldn't you?" <------

Interesting how 343GS was so sure Master Cheif knew something he never told him. A.I. constructs (except Cortana) do not try and trick someone into doing something unless thats in their programing. By leaving out a detail in ANYTHING an A.I. is too human, thus hard to control (AKA - Bad A.I.). 343GS honestly thought MC knew about this. He didn't mention anything about wipping out the galaxy of life during any of the Library or Guilty Spark levels.

My point? - AI does not just assume, especially something on a scale such as galactic destruction. That'd be like 343GS taking you to the Grand Canyon and assuming you know he's going to push you off the edge. It's just not very... "A.I.-ish"

To further this, lets get some more quotes from the transcript.

"We have followed outbreak containment procedure to the letter. You were with me each step of the way, as we managed this crisis."

I don't know about you, but walking around a "Library" and opening up tons of doors doesn't sound like a managment of any crisis if you ask me, and each step only consisted of opening door after door after door. Possibly 343 is talking about another time?

"Why would you hesitate to do what you have already done?"

This line is key and speaks for itself. Master Cheif was here before a long time ago and used Halo to combat another enemy (Flood?).

"Last time, you asked me, if it was my choice, would I do it? Having considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed."

100,000+ years is alot of time to ponder a question indeed. This quote from 343GS proves that he is not confusing MC for a Forerunner, but that Master Cheif IS a Forerunner and that 343GS was with him every step of the way when he first had to hit the switch. This is all coming from the same level, it practically spits it in our faces and most of use have over-looked it (including me, until now).

"If you are unwilling to help, I will simply find another. Still, I must have the index. Give your construct to me, or I will be forced to take her from you."

Assuming Master Cheif is God of the ring, he probrably knew there was a chance that his future self wouldn't activate Halo (which would result in the annihilation of mankind), so he made sure 343GS would have a personality similar to his (get the job done, ask questions later) in order to save mankind.

"Oh how I will enjoy every moment of its categorization!" - Somebody please help me on this one, but this seems to mean more than it does...

Heres some things that 343GS has to say in the last level...

"The Flood continue to multiply, Reclaimer! -
Why do you continue to ignore your task? -
Are you perhaps ill? - Guilty Spark remembers the Master Cheif who built him(raised him?), but he has no idea that the Master Cheif he knew has been long dead. That would explain THIS comment.
Why do you continue to resist us, Reclaimer?"

Simply put, Master Cheif has been here before with 343GS. They are far too familiar with each other.

  • 08.05.2004 6:14 AM PDT
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Another thing you should notice if you play the game again. In the level labled "343 Guilty Spark", there is a part in the level right before you enter the underground installation where Covanent are being shot at with an assault rifle and their running away. They begin to run away *exactly* the same way they do when you have the upper hand on them. At first I assumed it was Marines, but I have *never* seen Covanent run from Marines in my whole time of playing Halo, let alone run from one marine with an assualt rifle. Then I figured it was Flood, but theres two problems with this. 1). The Flood don't learn how to use weapons until on your way back up to the surface. 2). The Flood would have came out and kept on chasing the Covanent. Remember, the Flood does not retreat. That level is very odd, so let me continue.

At the very beginning of this level as you walk forward, you'll hear and see an explosion above you on a cliff. Some Covanent come flying off the cliff. Wasn't friendly fire, because the explosion is from a Frag Grenade. The Flood does not know how to use those until much later in the games timeline, but even if they did, this next part of the level rules it out entirely...

As you head from the jungle down to the underground area (in the place where you meet thE Marines on the way back up), you have to take an Elevator down. Heres the weird part. The Elevator is on it's way back up as you go ride it. Somebody used the Elevator. The key word being USED. The Flood would not retreat from the Covanent after shooting them into retreat and then use the Elevator to go down back where it came from even if it was that smart simply because it's not the way the Flood does battle. We already know that no single Marine could pull the task off of making the Covanet retreat. Only another Spartan could do that, but Master Cheif is the only Spartan around. So what the hell was it that used a frag grenade, then a Marine assualt rifle to tear up and scare off the Covanent while hasting down the elevator to the area where the Flood are? My theory would imply that it is another Master Cheif. Not just another, but THE Master Cheif going back in time to change something. I don't know what he changed, but meh, it had to be for some reason.

  • 08.05.2004 6:30 AM PDT
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Interesting...

Thought provoking parts about humans going back and forth through history...

Personally I think time travel will have something do with the whole story... (read the books this will make sense, crystals)

Not really sure about MC going back in time and that stuff... I mean halo is BIG you cant just build that thing in a life time, and all the other technology on there...? couldn't happend within MC's life time...

  • 08.05.2004 6:42 AM PDT
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I think the Flood are the Forerunners, and the Halo's were built to stop the Forerunner, which is why they are said to be extinct or gone, they are really the flood.

Just a theory

  • 08.05.2004 6:45 AM PDT
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it wasnt just one assault rifle, if you look on your radar at the time it happens, you will see multiple yellow blips, but about the two Spartan theory...it might be (if anyone has read FS) Dr. Halsey and Kelly on their secret mission

oh and MC couldnt have built Halo, he was drafted into Dr. Halsey's Program when he was six years old.

[Edited on 8/5/2004 6:49:09 AM]

  • 08.05.2004 6:45 AM PDT
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He's saying he went back in time and built halo before he was even born.

About the categorization of all our lost time. I think that's just A.I. talk for, I will enjoy reading this story or something like that.

Also, GS calls a fallen Marine the Reclaimer as well, I think the term Reclaimer is given to the current lifeform chosen by GS to activate halo.

  • 08.05.2004 6:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: ggivnish
I think the Flood are the Forerunners, and the Halo's were built to stop the Forerunner, which is why they are said to be extinct or gone, they are really the flood.

Just a theory


Right... so the flood built the halo's the things that destroyed them once before... ?

Ok then.......

  • 08.05.2004 6:51 AM PDT
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nice theories, but i hate the time travel reference in the book, it just didn't feel good with Halo's story, it's reaching too far, I just want a normal war between the humans and covenent, with some backstabbing and secret stuff going on (Ackerson and his ONI crap and the crap that's going on with the Prophets) and that's about it. I don't need all this time travel stuff and having 2 MC's and all that, if it happens, it'll totally ruin it for me.

[Edited on 8/5/2004 6:56:12 AM]

  • 08.05.2004 6:55 AM PDT
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It does match up the facts. Ohhh what Q's Halo 2 will anser!

  • 08.05.2004 6:56 AM PDT
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i know, it will be awesome, i cant wait

  • 08.05.2004 6:59 AM PDT
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I agree. It would be impossible to build such a thing in one life time. Who's to know how many lifetimes it took? When you take into consideration the ability to control a certain point in time, it is in fact possible to build some of it, then leave some hint behind to tell your future self to continue building it. Then repeat until it's finished.

I still think that's not the case though. My idea is that on this planet similar to Earth grew a small but respectable group of humans still with knowledge of their modern technology (Forerunner) regardless of living 100,000+ years in the past continually built Halo. Unfortunately the Flood was becoming to hard to contain, and eventually *pop*, the Flood got off Halo and threatened mankinds ENTIRE future (traveling back in time to save mankind is no fun if your the reason mankind is never able to form). Now, lets assume Master Chief is dead by the time the Flood escape and the whole future of mankind going down the toilet. Nobody is on Halo to use it, but rather everyone is getting infected by the Flood. Out of desperation, they fire up time travel one last time and go back to when Master Cheif is still alive. They grab Master Cheif and let him take care of the job to wipe out all life long after the Flood spread over the galaxy. Reason for this is because MC can't be infested by the Flood, so he's the only one who can fight through the Flood and activate Halo.

  • 08.05.2004 6:59 AM PDT

that leve called 343 gs when you hear the gun fire there nobody holding the guns they are just floating in the air and shoting at the covenant its a glitch so you can see it

  • 08.05.2004 7:02 AM PDT
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These theories are NOT crazy, they are extremely smart thoughts about how the Halo's are build. thoughts are worth gold and even more.

but, these things seem to be revealed on halo 2 or a prequel halo 3... keep on thinking.

  • 08.05.2004 7:08 AM PDT
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the assault rifle fire is just floating riflesand the grenades are placements i think they are the marines and keys just fighting their was around because u were to cach up on them and stop them right.

  • 08.05.2004 7:09 AM PDT
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Because YOUR NOT SUPOSED TO SEE IT. This theary fits in nice and cozy with the MC's "Familary" with the Holo panals.

  • 08.05.2004 7:11 AM PDT
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The Bungie team has said that time travel is for hack writers with no imagination at all, so unless they did a 180 then we can probably rule out time travel.

So, to reiterate a bit: The Forerunenrs are probably human ancestors, responsible for the pyramids, worshipped in their prime at the height of their power. In the distant future the humans uncovered some Forerunner ruins where they were able to make HUGE technological advances, and suits of combat armor so advanced that they had to create super-humans in order to use them at all. That's right, the Mjolnir armor the chief wears is either based off of an older Forerunner design or is actual Forerunner armor.

This fits in with Guilty Spark thinking that MC was the reclaimer and was there in the past (when in reality it was another Forerunner trooper wearing the armor) and also why Guilty Spark was confused as to why MC was wearing an older model armor and not a more advanced suit of armor in the series.

This also fits in with why the armor is called Mjolnir and the warriors made to wear them Spartans. Spartans were basically super-warriors, bred for battle. Mjolnir is from Norse mythology, it was the hammer of Thor, the god of thunder. Think of it: They had the weapon of the gods now (the Forerunners armor) and all they needed were humans strong enough to wield them (the Spartan series). How else could the humans have advanced armor so much more highly advanced than the covies and they can't even figure out how to recharge covie weapons?

They reverse-engineered the tech or just used the mothballed suits they found, and if they did that then it would explain why the covies are so ticked at the humans: either they are angry because the humans raided religious holy grounds of the forerunners, or they are afraid that the forerunners are returning (ie the humans, their descendants) and want to make sure their reign over the universe is not taken away from them.

So why don't they just want to glass the earth? Because there is something there in the ancient pyramids, or under them, some relic or item of power that they do not want or destroyed, or maybe they are hoping that something isn't woken up, We'll have to wait to Nov 9 to find out.

  • 08.05.2004 7:13 AM PDT
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Oh, and as far as why MC is so familiar with the tech on Halo, the tech there is almost identical to the tech on the Covie ships. The panels are identical, and I am sure that part of his training was in how to operate basic Covie items, from weapons to vehicles, so he must have a basic understanding of their language. It would also mean that the Covies probably also reverse-engineered some of the Forerunner tech in the past which is why the tech and panels are just about identical.

I can't wait to find out the cause for the Covies genocide of mankind, it can't be as black and white as what most think it is, there has to be more to it. I'm still just waiting to find out that the Covies are really the good guys and the whole war was started out of someone being in the wrong place at the wrong time!

  • 08.05.2004 7:19 AM PDT
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I really enjoy the posibilty of time travel when it comes to halo - considering that merely by slipspace travel, time travel is of consiquence, but also the time and space bending properties of the crystal artifact found on reach.


BUT

There is one problem with your theory; as follows.

In order for the humans to create the Halo installations, they would have needed to have survived the impending armogeadon of halo 2, lived for a couple of thousand year's so as to be able to create the Halo installations technological brilliance as we see it in the game and then be able to master time travel and leave 'clues' for our past selves to solve in an oddly placed time-loop of events the UNSC/humans could have solved by annihilating the covenant species when they were mere single-celled organisms.

But there in lies another problem.

Surely, if we travelled to and fro in time, then there are forerunner/s left, but not as we humans are in the game. They would literally be like gods. They know all the secrets, all the riddles..............but they are nowhere to be found....why have they not helped us out before??

OF course they may be trapped in slip-space, never able to get out and are watching us, like a reality tv show, never able to help.

I read the part about the fact that there could be another spartan/s on Halo with you during the game halo, but once again.............why not just go back to the very beginning of the covenant alliance, let alone their covenant specie's emergence of conciousness (as to catch them with no more brain-power than that of a rodent) and stamp the bastards out for good, before they even contemplate attack or killing us poor humans.?

  • 08.05.2004 7:21 AM PDT
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Also mention in the book is how the controls of the covenant and the controls of Halo seem familiar to the Spartans (not just the MC) Fred knew how to drive the Wraith because pressing the right buttons seemed familiar. MC was familiar with the controls of extending the light bridge and the symbols of the crystals.

This suggest prior knowledge or de ja vue of things that have happened before. What if it was not just the MC that went back in time but other spartans as well.

  • 08.05.2004 7:22 AM PDT
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No, no no. Keyes was gone for 12 hours since the beginning of that level (Cortana says so if I remember correctly). The Marines down in the bottom of the level are from a long time ago as well. This is obvious because when MC loads the video footage of Jenkins there is no Covanent in sight, but when you arrive there are Covanent there. As for the floating gun glitch thing...I'm guessing you some how managed to get that close to the action during that part? Using a code of some kind maybe? Well, I'm not surprised really. Bungie would not want you to see who it is shooting. If my theory is somehow correct, then that would justify making it impossible to see him/it during the first game.

  • 08.05.2004 7:22 AM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

theres also the other proper weird glitch in 343GS with the weird "WHUMPH!" noise and the glimpse of something dematerialising. it looks like a weird sparkly thing that suddenly disappears.

  • 08.05.2004 7:26 AM PDT
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Why don't we all just stop makeing "Theorys" and wait for Halo 2??

  • 08.05.2004 7:28 AM PDT
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NaughtyCalibur have you given any thought to the Covenant AI and how the source code seemed familiar to Cortana??

  • 08.05.2004 7:29 AM PDT
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Covenant tech is based on Forerunner tech. So, if the humans are forerunner decendants that would explain a similarity in AI code and even the intuitive way the Spartans are able to use Covenant technology.

  • 08.05.2004 7:33 AM PDT

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