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  • Subject: Another Bungie.net Feedback Opportunity...
Subject: Another Bungie.net Feedback Opportunity...
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Posted by: Parasite

lol yes its brilliant....

neways i believe easing in new users will be a lot better because when i was new l had no idea what i was doing and eventually didnt return for a while.


I'm still not convinced that I know what I'm doing. Everytime I vist the Septagon, I learn new ways to combat spammers.

  • 08.07.2004 4:32 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Awesome idea....

If I had anything more to say than those two words about it, I would... I'm sorry, but I don't have anything more to say.

  • 08.07.2004 5:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: SketchFactor

What do you guys think? I've been kicking this around over here for a while, and I think it would be helpful.. in addition to some of the other secret tools that Achronos has been cooking up.


I like the current system. Granted, the spammers are annoying, but like Achronos eloquently stated yesterday in a thread by our beloved friend d88, the more the spammers post, the more information you guys at Bungie can get on them, and the easier it is that you can hurt them when Halo 2 comes out. If you can tell who they are even though those who are blacklisteed change their names, you should be able to catch whatever account they decide to use when they finally do link their gamertag.

  • 08.07.2004 5:25 PM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
Forum Rules.
FAQ.
I'm certifiable.

I like the idea of "graduated licensing" on the forums, so long as (as Sketch aptly pointed out) it doesn't alienate the newer fans coming in.

However, the idea of not allowing newer fans to create new threads for, say, a week is a good one. A big issue right now on the higher-traffic topics is repetitive threads; "forcing" new players to participate only in existing threads may build a habit of looking at what's already been posted before going off to post it yet again.

Of course, this'd be easier still if the forums were searchable... (nag, nag, nag)

Definitely there should be an automated routine looking at posting rate; say, more than one post per minute over a 10-minute period, or ten posts in less than a minute, and you get a 24-hour lockout and automated warning. Something like that shouldn't penalise genuine posters, but would hurt the spammers where it counts. In fact, genuine users probably wouldn't even notice it running... I don't know how it'd be possible to crank out 11 posts in 10 minutes if you were actually reading in between.

-- Steve will continue to cudgel his brain for more ideas.

  • 08.07.2004 6:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: SketchFactor
We could actually have several levels of interaction, that people will "earn" as they use the site and obey the rules. The better user you are, the more abilities you have.


I like the sound of that. =)

  • 08.07.2004 9:01 PM PDT

bah

Any solution that involves severely limiting new people is bad. Any solution that involves a time period is bad since resourceful troll will simply create new accounts days or weeks in advance. Don't think they're smart enough to do that? Think Obbi is too stupid to do that? He addmittedly belongs to a group that spams other forums for fun. The only solution that will work is one not based on time, but on post counts. I know everyone is thinking "Post counts suck!" But in this case they do not. Under my system, the only reason to get a high post count would be to be able to post more stuff. So it's pointless to go for the high count. Of course, the counts would still be hidden, but the system would limit people with under 500 posts to say 50 a day. That way, if a troll wants to do a massive spam he could do 50 at the most under that one profile, and to do more, they would have to invest 10 days of time making 500 posts, and if they were crappy posts, we'd already know aobut their idiocy and Bungie could just make the 50 post limit permanent.

I'm not worried at all about the stupid people who make a few stupid posts a day. No automated system is going to stop them, only moderation. And time is not a factor at all for trolls unless they actually have to be doing something during that time, like make posts.

  • 08.08.2004 12:00 AM PDT

[color=white]I can't agree with GameJunkieJim's idea of using permanent ISPs for members, unless, like RvB, you allow pre-existing members' accounts to remain open, as the guys at RvB told me they did when they changed to that idea (I tried to join with my Hotmail account long after they started taking new members with only permanent ISPs). I'd love to be able to interact on their forums, but I am more than content to spend my time here, and I'd hate to lose that option under a rule change.

ReconNumber54's ideas intrigue me, and sound feasible and logical. I'm sorry they can't (or wouldn't) work under post-Halo 2 visitor numbers, as Achronos pointed out. It is nice to hear a little detail about the way things work behind the curtain, though.

Changing the way things are done might create a great deal of confusion for new members.
If the more reactionary and vehement among the current and active post-makers make a point of telling the new members (who perhaps won't have the privelege of posting immediately, based on whatever new rules are implemented) how much "better" things "were," making the new folks simply not interested in delving further, it would be a shame. Not that this would definitely happen, but it seems a possibility.

I'm for a change if it will help new members learn the rules clearly and succinctly, and if it doesn't punish standing members who don't deserve to be punished.[/color]

  • 08.08.2004 12:42 AM PDT

=)

MSXL: The Last Honest Chapter

Posted by: stosh
Backups? I highly doubt a spammer would be that resourceful. Plus I'm sure they will implement some kind of system that would curb . Anyway, I believe if we do restrict something we should retrict two things:

1) The new users ability to create topics for an X amount of time. Maybe just a day or two. Most jerks spam by making a ton of dumb topics. Not by replying to some other guys topic. Spammers desire attention.

2) The amount of topics you can reply to within that couple day probationary period. (like you said above)

Also it would be cool if the system could automatically temporary ban someone for creating too many topics/posts with a certain amount of time.


Hey stosh, I really like your last idea. An "auto-ban" (no not a Europian highway) would be an awesome feature for this forum! I would definitly have the banning of someone send and automated message to all the mods via PM or something. That way they can immediatly take a look at the problem.

Speaking of the mods, it would be cool if they were given the ability to ban someone, without having to go through you guys first. I totally understand where you and Frankie are coming from, but sometimes problems can be squelched if the mods are allowed to "nip something in the bud" so to speak. By the time they get a hold of you or Frankie to have you guys ban someone, the problem could have already escalated! I know you guys already trust the mods. Hell, I know most of 'em pretty well - well enough to know they won't go and ban someone for a stupid reason!

Finally, I think that when new users see that these rules are being strictly enforced, they will think twice before spamming. The Halo Babies forum used to have a really big problem with spamming. I banned someone, and the mods and I deleted a TON of posts, sent out a bunch of warning messages, and re-instated the forum rules. We haven't had a problem since. Now I know this forum is a much larger magnitude, but the concept remains the same; people will learn by example! Ban someone, make it known, and people will learn. (Hopefully)

  • 08.08.2004 1:19 AM PDT

bah

I think adding a common mailbox for mods would be a great idea. That way, there's only one place to send your link and if a mod comes on, they'll see it. Autoban messages could go there to alert them of a spammer. I don't like the idea of the system kicking someone. Systems are stupid and can mistake trolls for innocent people.

  • 08.08.2004 2:32 AM PDT

Under my system, the only reason to get a high post count would be to be able to post more stuff. So it's pointless to go for the high count.
Why is it pointless? The only effect of this would be to get more inane, although entirely valid, posts, which would piss everyone off even more.

  • 08.08.2004 3:13 AM PDT

[color=white]Response to goweb's last post:
Which would mean spammers who got many posts on (through whatever methods they might have/use under the new rules) would get the benefits of having many posts (then being able to post even more under that idea).

The people who actually take time to think and then write intelligent additions to threads, or begin what might become intellgent threads, get (inserts witty Halo reference) "Shafted."[/color]

[Edited on 8/8/2004 3:21:08 AM]

  • 08.08.2004 3:20 AM PDT

I don't agree with the post-count-related idea of The Rip Saw.

I have an ideas to help with flooding:

Flood limit. It would be annoying but fairly worthwhile. It means that you can only make one post within a certain amount of time. Maybe good members could have it lifted?

[Edited on 8/8/2004 8:35:42 AM]

  • 08.08.2004 8:31 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

One other possibility we're looking at is a kind of "karma" system. Basically, a new user would be limited to a crappy title, a limited set of avatars, and maybe some limitations on how much he can post.

To gain karma, various things can be done. A linked gamertag, time passing without being blacklisted, 7th column participation, etc. Lots of things could modify your "karma" either way. We could also put a button on post that people could click if they think the post is an especially good post. We would not put any negative feedback buttons or stuff like that, because that can be abused easily and some people wear negative feedback like a badge of honor.

Anyway, as these actions are recorded, your "karma" increases, granting rewards to the user. Things like granting the user special titles in the public forums, a expanded set of avatars only available to high karma users, and anything else we think of.

You might be wondering how this would help spamming. Well, one of the problems we have right now is that your identity is not very valuable. You can simply create a new passport and get a new login, and you don't really lose much: a similar name will tell everybody who you are. But what if you create a new login and you lost more than just a name? How about a title, your avatars, your reputation? All the neat little awards we could come up with, gone.

That, combined with a more effective admin system that the mods will be getting shortly, might do the trick. Anyway, that's my idea - any comments?

  • 08.08.2004 12:59 PM PDT

Only if it has a better name that I can't think of right now.

  • 08.08.2004 1:25 PM PDT
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Possible improvements:

1) Include a repuation system. Next to each post will be a little icon. If you click it I mini-window will open where you can give the person a message, and select rather you liked the post or not. If you didn't like it, then rep is subtracted from the person, if you did like it then rep is added.

The way the amount your rep is worth depends on how many repuation points you have. For every 100 points your rep is worth one more point. Negative reps are worth half the points of positive reps. Under a person's avatar is a meter showing how much rep they have.
- Reputation is an easy way to let someone know what you think of his or her post anonymously. If you wish to be known you can sign it with your name.
- Your reputation is neutral (meaning if you - or + rep a person it doesn't affect their point total) until a certain post count is reached, say 500 posts. This discourages people from making multiple accounts just to rep themselves.
- Your rep can go in the negative rangers, and should be indicated on your rep bar.

I post on many forums, and this system always seems to work well. Being able to give a poster sometimes anonymous feedback is a nice system. Plus, it's a good way for newbies to tell who good people to ask questions to are because their rep-bar indicates they are very well liked.

2) Flood control. Yes, people hate it, but it's one of the best systems out right now against spammers. I suggest limiting people to one post every five minutes.
Plusses:
- Seriously restricts spammers.
- Gives people more time to put in more effort in their posts, improving their quality overall. I post at a secular forum that limits you to three posts a day - and the post quality is amazing.

Negatives:
- The people who go for the "1st post!" nonsense. When I used to post on the SWG forums I used to curse every time a developer would post RIGHT after I did, so I missed the first.

3) IP checking system. It helps find and eliminate alternate handles. Sure, there are ways around this, but does your average spammer really possess the ability to figure out how?
Plusses: Obvious.

Negatives: None.

Edit: Missed Achronos's post.

[Edited on 8/8/2004 1:42:44 PM]

  • 08.08.2004 1:41 PM PDT

-S

I would suggest that perhaps the way the mods interact with a user should have an effect on their karma as well. For example, getting a thread deleted should have a negative effect on karma. Getting a sticky, on the other hand, should result in positive karma.

As Achronos pointed out, some would carry low karma like a trophy. So, I think that perhaps there should be a cut off in karma loss before the user recieves a temporary ban, or have their daily post count reduced to a single post, or something along the lines of shutting the problem user up for a while.

  • 08.08.2004 1:44 PM PDT
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An AWESOME edition would be the ability to upload a custom avatar after a certain amount of reputation.

The ability to unlock a customizable title would also be nifty.

As a suggestion, I think that the moderator's names should be a different color. Say, moderators green, admins red?

  • 08.08.2004 1:46 PM PDT
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(see? If there was flood control this wouldn't be happening)

Another idea I have is if a person can upload a picture of themselves after they reach a certain post count (your post count should remain unknown).
This works very well at www.christianforums.com, a very popular place for christian/non/christian interaction. As far as I'm aware, there have been no problems with the picture system they have set up (which is also limited by post count).

Say, after 500 posts, you can upload a 400x400 picture of yourself, which can be accessed through your profile.

  • 08.08.2004 1:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: impurity
That's pretty good Obbi. Kind of what I was thinking. Except with more thought behind it. I don't do that thinking thing to well.


It'd be an interesting campaign slogan. Perhaps if a person was running for the position of Dictator.

"Obbi thinks for the people!"

  • 08.08.2004 1:54 PM PDT
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Aha, another idea.

What about in the profile section we have a location drop-down menu featuring all the countries in the world. Which ever country you select, that country's flag appears somewhere near your posts so people know where you're posting from - which is practical considering of the importance of the LAN aspect of Bungie games.

There is one thing I'd seriously suggest NOT adding: Smilies.

Smilies are, by far, the best tool a spammer has - especially animated smilies.

I know, I'm a spammer.

Edit: Actually, [ img][ /img] tags are the worst tool a spammer has.

[Edited on 8/8/2004 2:04:24 PM]

  • 08.08.2004 2:02 PM PDT
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mrsmiley, I agree totally that the mods should have the ability to ban. I've been a mod before, and sometimes my most cherished tool was the ability to ban. I know that if they can ban it'll improve their moderation abilities ten fold. Though, after talking with a few unnamed mods (not sure if this person(s) was supposed to say anything), they believe (or know) that they will soon get the ability to ban. I'm not sure if this means a perma/IP-ban, or set temporary bans on handles.

And along with the ability to ban, I think they should be able to check IPs.

Another idea: A "report-post" button. If a poster sees something offensive, he can click "report post", write a small write-up on why it's offesnive, then submit it to the mods' shared PM box. All mods will have access to it, and other mods can check off a report when they take care of it so the same report doesn't get taken care of twice.

[Edited on 8/8/2004 2:17:03 PM]

  • 08.08.2004 2:13 PM PDT