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This topic has moved here: Subject: Was the pistol meant to be so good?
  • Subject: Was the pistol meant to be so good?
Subject: Was the pistol meant to be so good?
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There are certain things about Halo 1 that make me question whether the pistol was meant to be the dominating weapon it turned out to be. These questions became more urgent when you notice the balancing issues with Halo 2.

First of all, it's a pistol. Realistically, a pistol should not be able to take down a person with an assault rifle or a rocket launcher so easily. This question, before Halo 2 came out, was answered by the fact that it's a sci-fi game, and it should not be "realistic".

Second, there's Hang 'Em High. This is an extremely intricate, detailed level with catwalks and tombstones, ect, ect. But much of the map goes to waste in a game with the pistol, because you cannot hope to go out on a catwalk and survive for long. The game usually degenerates into long distance shootouts as players try to spawn-kill other players and huck 'nades. Was this really how it was meant to be?

Third, there's Halo 2. While I personally still have fun with the game and play it regularly, I'm sure there are many people here who think it is an imbalanced piece of crap and that Bungie are "noobs" (such a stupid word) that destroyed something beautiful. Halo 2 dispels the idea that Bungie is the master of FPSs that can do no wrong (I personally think that title goes to Id Software).

So, my point: many people love Halo 1 simply for the pistol, and feel that it makes the game. But is it possible that the pistol is a mistake that just happened to turn out to be alot of fun, such as the sword-flying glitch in Halo 2?

  • 09.12.2005 10:31 PM PDT
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*Entry Removed*

[Edited on 9/14/2005]

  • 09.13.2005 6:23 AM PDT
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And yet they can't make an Assault rifle that can shoot straight? Or a sniper that can hold more than four bullets? There are all kinds of holes in the logic of the weapons, including the fact that since it's 2552, they should be able to come up with some better types of weapons. But that is neither here nor there. But this debate is as old as Halo itself, and not one I'm interested in at all. What I'm focusing on here is not the story, but rather the gameplay mechanics.

  • 09.13.2005 10:58 AM PDT
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dc73i, do you realise that the pistol on Halo II is considerably weak.

  • 09.13.2005 10:59 AM PDT
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They weren't trying to make it so that it was the best weapon, they were trying to make every weapon considerably equal. I mean, if you didn't have weapon balanced, what would you have? Halo 2?

  • 09.13.2005 11:58 AM PDT
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But how it turned out is that the pistol undoubtedly IS the best weapon. Sure, a PR or Shottie can take down a Pistolero in the right situation, but they are few and far between, and most of the time the Pistolero will win. Is that what Bungie intended? Or was it a balancing problem that just happened to work out in their favor?

  • 09.13.2005 12:41 PM PDT
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Bungie intended for the best player to win in all circumstances, no matter what weapon the other person had. If you were skilled, you would win. That is the purpose of the pistol.

In Halo 2, Bungie had to make the game for noobs and 12 year olds, so they got rid of the pistol. You say that the pistol is not realistic, yet there is dual wielding in Halo 2?.

Show me a person who can shoot an SMG and pistol, with pinpoint accuracy, 20 feet away and I will say that DW in Halo 2 is realistic.

The pistol was to balance the game.

DW inbalances the game for noobs.

  • 09.13.2005 1:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: lSZl Hiro
They weren't trying to make it so that it was the best weapon, they were trying to make every weapon considerably equal. I mean, if you didn't have weapon balanced, what would you have? Halo 2?


Neither Halo is an "every weapon balanced" game the way that say UCII is. Bungie has stated that they designed Halo 2, and probably Halo 1 as well with rock paper scissors and a power weapon theme.

This is the exact opposite of weapon balance. Note that the default gametypes give you a weenie weapon start.

If it wasn't for the pistol and slayer pro I wouldn't bother with Halo 1 at all.

  • 09.13.2005 2:24 PM PDT
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"Show me a person who can shoot an SMG and pistol, with pinpoint accuracy, 20 feet away and I will say that DW in Halo 2 is realistic."

Master Cheif is a cyborg with an altered body to make him more accurate, powerful and fast.

  • 09.13.2005 4:25 PM PDT
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Yes, ofcourse I realise that Halo 2's pistol is considerably weak. It's especially useless after the Auto-update.

But, hey, that's the way it is; We'll just have to deal with it.

Oh, and yeah, I find it rather horrible that a bionically enhanced super-solider can't hold an smg still with a single hand.



[Edited on 9/14/2005]

  • 09.14.2005 10:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Patawan
And yet they can't make an Assault rifle that can shoot straight? Or a sniper that can hold more than four bullets? There are all kinds of holes in the logic of the weapons, including the fact that since it's 2552, they should be able to come up with some better types of weapons. But that is neither here nor there. But this debate is as old as Halo itself, and not one I'm interested in at all. What I'm focusing on here is not the story, but rather the gameplay mechanics.


Yeah, you're absolutely right.

  • 09.14.2005 10:51 AM PDT
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Pistol is only good, when good people use it.

  • 09.14.2005 4:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: lSZl Hiro
They weren't trying to make it so that it was the best weapon, they were trying to make every weapon considerably equal. I mean, if you didn't have weapon balanced, what would you have? Halo 2?


Halo 2 is BALANCED.

It was because of the Halo 1 pistol that hunters could not live up to their full potential; one shot in the back, and 131 rounds left over. Wow, those Halo 1 hunters are reeeaaal threats...

Halo 2 is balanced. No weapons are too strong, nor are they too weak.
The sword's lunge is there because, without it, the energy sword would be the equivalent of an empty brute shot. The lunge is there to add to the sword's uniqueness. You can dodge the lunge, too, you know. Better yet--just STAY at long range from whoever has the sword and kill him with the BR or carbine.

Bringing me to the BR. This is also balanced. It is basically a remake of the Halo 1 pistol. The only differences: it shoots faster, has less ammo, and has weaker shots. And so what if it has auto-aim? The plasma rifle had auto-aim in Halo 1. Besides, in halo 2, the target is always moving, thus increasing the difficulty of scoring head shots.

The carbine is also balanced; it's basically the covie equal to the BR. The good: It shoots fast, has a scope, ammo is slightly abundant. The cons: Low ammo, 6 head shots to kill, hard to pull off head shots. These factors balance the carbine.

The magnum. It was not meant to be the new Halo 1 pistol; it is meant to be a sidearm or a finish-off weapon. It shoots fast, has a VERY fast melee, and can be DW-ed. On the other hand, it takes two clips to kill and is terrible at long range.

Shotgun? Only difference: range and ammo capacity were shortened. This made it more balanced.

The two plasma rifles. They easily take down energy shields, but have low accuracy.
The differences between them: The BPR deals more damage, less accuracy, less ammo, overheats faster.

Plasma pistol. People complain about its "weakness" all the time. In halo 1, it was incredibly strong, when really, players were supposed to use it for its charge ability. So, in Halo 2, it focuses MORE on the shield charge rather than deadly twitch fire. Anything wrong with that? Not really. It just grasps the PP's goal more clearly.

SMG is not a weak weapon. I have killed many enemies with it, even sword-wielders. WITHOUT Dw-ing them. Simply throw a grenade behind an enemy and finish with the SMG. Or, shoot 'n' charge at them, then melee to finish. It is not a weak weapon.

Rocket Launcher is no unbalanced weapon either. Sure, it locks onto turrets and vehicles, but so what? A) It has two less rounds than the first game and B) the banshee can barrel-roll out of the way.

Needlers. weak? I think not. Come behind the enemy, shoot a strand of needles, and then melee attack if they don't explode first. Or, if you like to kill quick, then dual-wield them.


That's all I need to show that Halo 2 IS BALANCED.

  • 09.14.2005 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: JakeDaGreat
In Halo 2, Bungie had to make the game for noobs and 12 year olds, so they got rid of the pistol. You say that the pistol is not realistic, yet there is dual wielding in Halo 2?.

Show me a person who can shoot an SMG and pistol, with pinpoint accuracy, 20 feet away and I will say that DW in Halo 2 is realistic.

The pistol was to balance the game.

DW inbalances the game for noobs.


How is dual-wielding unrealistic? You simp,y hold two small-arms, that is all.
Dual-wielding does not unbalance the game. Here are all the disadvantages to DW-ing:

1--When you pick up the same weapon as the first, the ammo you have is DIVIDED among the two guns; you do not get 180 more rounds for the SMG.

2--Accuracy is dramatically decreased.
3--Grenades acnnot be used.
4--If you melee, youd rop the 2nd weapon.

Noobified? I think not.
The pistol did not balance anything. You call 3 shots to the head balance? You can hold 132 rounds. Is that balance? It kills the oh-so-deadly hunters with a single shot. Is that balance? No.

  • 09.14.2005 5:08 PM PDT
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Maybe you're missing the point, in reality there are many handguns that can wipe out the engine block of a heavy vehicle, haven't you heard of Dirty Harry?

The best lies are 80% truth, just like a realistic sci-fi game. If you can't handle using the pistol in HaloCE then use the plasma pistol and switch to the AR, two quick trigger taps will wipe out a covenant. OR try a nade and the needler, it's just as effective for distance.
Until the autoupdate i ran around halo2 with dual magnums constantly, it worked really well if you were a sneaky player.

What makes halo for me is those hallways.. it's shiny! ":)

  • 09.14.2005 5:46 PM PDT
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Perhaps you're right. But then again, it could always be balanced by putting up the life to 400% or something. Though, it does make it harder to kill, you asked for it. 3 shots to the head doesn't work anymore.

  • 09.14.2005 6:17 PM PDT
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It very may well have been a wonderfull mistake. Personaly, if I have a rocket, it isn't very often someone with a pistol beats me. I never even pick up the pistol in Chill Out. I love using the AR in the tight spaces. Just a quick spray and melee lays them out cold.

But, I think the pistol DID create balance. In your example of Hang Em High, imagine if you spawned in with todays SMG's and the other team had battle rifles up high. You wouldn't stand a chance. At least with the old pistol, everyone had an equal chance right when they spawned in. It came down to how well you could aim, and how well you could dodge. With H2's battle rifle, it still takes an amount of skill to aim, but the skill of dodging is pretty much gone because of the beefed up auto-aim. Just look at the snipers from the two games. In Halo CE I'd run out in the open in Gultch to draw fire to find the other teams position. I could stand out there under fire and dance around till I ran the sniper out of ammo. You just can't do that in H2. They should put "leading the target" back into Halo 3. Well, that and respawning power weapons. That was a big mistake. When you have one sniper on a map and the only person that knows when it'll respawn is the person that's holding it, you've got a problem.

  • 09.15.2005 5:40 AM PDT
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"Show me a person who can shoot an SMG and pistol, with pinpoint accuracy, 20 feet away and I will say that DW in Halo 2 is realistic.

The pistol was to balance the game.

DW inbalances the game for noobs."- Jakedagreat


I definately agree with you but dual weilding is not so impossible. What is impossible is that he can fire a rocket in mid-air and not get blown back at least 10 feet
show me a person who can do that and I will say halo 2 is realistic

[Edited on 9/15/2005]

  • 09.15.2005 11:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: MRodzilla
"Show me a person who can shoot an SMG and pistol, with pinpoint accuracy, 20 feet away and I will say that DW in Halo 2 is realistic.

The pistol was to balance the game.

DW inbalances the game for noobs."- Jakedagreat


I definately agree with you but dual weilding is not so impossible. What is impossible is that he can fire a rocket in mid-air and not get blown back at least 10 feet
show me a person who can do that and I will say halo 2 is realistic

It's sci-fi. It's not based on reality.

  • 09.15.2005 3:29 PM PDT
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Exactly. I'm not talking about story, but gameplay mechanics, as I already said. And please stop trying to debate whether Halo 2 is unbalanced, because it is obviously IS. That's not the purpose of the thread.

  • 09.15.2005 4:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Patawan
Exactly. I'm not talking about story, but gameplay mechanics, as I already said. And please stop trying to debate whether Halo 2 is unbalanced, because it is obviously IS. That's not the purpose of the thread.


To YOU it is unbalanced. Quit saying "it IS". You're just trying to get people to agree with you.

You get opinion confused with fact. To YOU it is unbalanced. What, beaten by too many DW-ers? Killed by snipers? Lunged at? Dude, none of the weapons are unbalanced. It's just as easy to kill whoever is using them as it is for them to kill a guy with an SMG. No lie. Try it sometime.

  • 09.16.2005 1:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: JakeDaGreat
Bungie intended for the best player to win in all circumstances, no matter what weapon the other person had. If you were skilled, you would win. That is the purpose of the pistol.

In Halo 2, Bungie had to make the game for noobs and 12 year olds, so they got rid of the pistol. You say that the pistol is not realistic, yet there is dual wielding in Halo 2?.

Show me a person who can shoot an SMG and pistol, with pinpoint accuracy, 20 feet away and I will say that DW in Halo 2 is realistic.

The pistol was to balance the game.

DW inbalances the game for noobs.


another loser that constantly is owned by duel-wiedling.... and no, it wasnt put in for noobs, if it wasnt put in, people would complain more about it not put in, then when its alrdy in. and besides, if it wasnt put in, why cant the MC hold two pistols?

  • 09.16.2005 2:31 PM PDT
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to people that hate Halo 2: you saw the various E3 videos before Halo 2 came out. You saw Joe Staten play on Zanzibar against the elite, demonstrating for the crowd about how dual-wielding works. YOU SAW HIM DUAL-WIELD. You SAW him kill the elite with the needler and SMG DW-ed. Why are you all complaining now that you can use it? It was in the trailer! You were looking forward to it! It's just as balanced as it was in the vids! I think you Halo 2 haters are looking for faults and failing. Most of the stuff in-game was in the trailers as well. You KNEW about the lunge. It was in the PREVIEW VIDS. You SAW how far you could lunge.

You SAW the BR being used. My point is, many people are arguing that Halo 2 is unbalanced, when really, IT WAS ALL IN THE VIDS! You knew about it!

  • 09.16.2005 5:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: Vitamin Zawaz
to people that hate Halo 2: you saw the various E3 videos before Halo 2 came out. You saw Joe Staten play on Zanzibar against the elite, demonstrating for the crowd about how dual-wielding works. YOU SAW HIM DUAL-WIELD. You SAW him kill the elite with the needler and SMG DW-ed. Why are you all complaining now that you can use it? It was in the trailer! You were looking forward to it! It's just as balanced as it was in the vids! I think you Halo 2 haters are looking for faults and failing. Most of the stuff in-game was in the trailers as well. You KNEW about the lunge. It was in the PREVIEW VIDS. You SAW how far you could lunge.

You SAW the BR being used. My point is, many people are arguing that Halo 2 is unbalanced, when really, IT WAS ALL IN THE VIDS! You knew about it!


To me DW wasn't that big of an issue. What was an issue was spawing IN with nothing but an SMG. I think the new PRO playlist will solve a lot of the unbalance issues. It's much easier to snipe in H2. Starting with a half ass decent weapon will be an improvement. The problem is they wanted everyone to use their new toy (duel wielding) so they forced us to play it a certain way. Yes, forced.

Custom games aren't a viable option most of the time. I play a lot at night, and not many people on my friends list are on at 3 in the morning. Must of the people on my FL were put on there from games that I played at 3 in the morning. They just happened to be up that late, but it was a fluke. If they had a server list where people could just play what they wanted when they wanted, you wouldn't be hearing 95% of these complaints.

  • 09.16.2005 8:25 PM PDT