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Subject: Hopefully in Reach you will have learnt..

that maps should be designed for gameplay, not visual aspects.

Okay, so Orbital looks nice. But in terms of gameplay, many (including myself) would say it is awful, because it's a bunch of tight corridors with bad spawns and no opportunities for flanking.

Okay, so Heretic is a covenant ship. But in terms of gameplay, that doesn't mean it needs plasma starts, especially considering there are just 2 BRs and a Carbine on the map, so AR starts will inevitably lead to much close range combat and much suicide sticking.

Okay, so a wall looks nicer on Guardian if you stick it out a bit and make it a bit jaggedy on the sides. But if I'm trying to walk past it and get stuck on this edge, I don't care about whether or not the wall looks nice. I just want to run around the wall.

Thoughts?

  • 09.01.2010 3:18 AM PDT

fear me, for i am pro sauce

orbital is pretty easy, grenade and BR.

i think heretic is awful.

guardian is freakin awsome.

  • 09.01.2010 3:26 AM PDT

Hey.

I agree that gameplay exceeds graphics & map esthetics by far. Orbital is a great example of giving people eye candy without any depth to a map; just because something's asymmetrical doesn't have to mean unbalanced.

  • 09.01.2010 3:28 AM PDT

RIP Logan ~B.B.

I think Orbital is a pretty fun map for truly one-sided objective games. Trying to use it as a Team Slayer, or Multi-Flag map was not a good idea.

  • 09.01.2010 7:19 AM PDT

I think my Anti-Orbital thread from a year or so ago is the golden standard in Anti-Orbital threads.

I'll see if I can find it.

  • 09.01.2010 7:24 AM PDT

The golden standard for anti-Orbital threads.

  • 09.01.2010 7:28 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

ODST Expeditionary Force I The WorkPLace I Mythics
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Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.


Posted by: III Kirby III
The golden standard for anti-Orbital threads.


o hai thar kerby

  • 09.01.2010 7:30 AM PDT

Posted by: chubbz
o hai thar kerby


Have you come to stone me?

On the topic of Orbital, Mythic II map weightings should have been adressed by Shishka a long time ago for ranked playlists.

Also, competent people should playtest maps with different game variants before incorporating them into Matchmaking. That should be a forgone conclusion.

Reach has great potential with the improved Forge System. An effective system of checks & balances with regards to play-testing and map submission are needed so that the MM experience isn't saturated with horribly designed & ill conceived maps.

In my opinion.

  • 09.01.2010 7:36 AM PDT


Ooh, I love those people, the ones who decide to throw everything and the kitchen sink at you, as if an M16 does anything to a T-90. Oh, MLG player with noobtube instead? Congrats! You blew off one of my ablative plates!

Gun, meet Bad Guy.
Bad Guy, this is Gun.

could high ground be considered bad?


the spawns on that map are terrible

i can`t count how many times some guy has spawned behind me on that map

  • 09.01.2010 7:40 AM PDT

Posted by: DarkAero Trooper
could high ground be considered bad?


Yes.

  • 09.01.2010 7:46 AM PDT
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Eh they should try and get a good mixture of both

See: Vahalla, Standoff, Citadel, Last Resort.

  • 09.01.2010 7:50 AM PDT

I rule the midnight air, the destroyer, die by my hand, I am Creeping Death.

Okay, if anything is for visual appeal, its the MW2 maps...

now:

Orbital isnt all that bad, not really created for visual, because I dont think it looks all that nice... but it is great for one sided objectives and maybe a lil team slayer

heretic is awesome... nice symmetrical map for SWAT or team slayer... or oddball

guardian is freaking awesome!

almost all maps are planned out and nice...

  • 09.01.2010 7:54 AM PDT

Ignore this post

[Edited on 09.01.2010 8:22 AM PDT]

  • 09.01.2010 8:15 AM PDT

Why not stop by my File Share while you're here?

~Long Live Halo 2
Only regret is I didn't play more of it.

If you haven't noticed by now, I'm sort of a jerk.

Heretic sucks (In Halo 2, the Plasmas weren't as overpowered as they are in Halo 3). It's only fun in Snipers and Swat when there's no grenades.

Orbital is just downright bad, no excuses.

Guardian is fun.

  • 09.01.2010 8:21 AM PDT


Posted by: st3althsniper22
Heretic sucks (In Halo 2, the Plasmas weren't as overpowered as they are in Halo 3). It's only fun in Snipers and Swat when there's no grenades.

Orbital is just downright bad, no excuses.

Guardian is fun.


Guardian is unbalanced.

  • 09.01.2010 8:22 AM PDT

Why not stop by my File Share while you're here?

~Long Live Halo 2
Only regret is I didn't play more of it.

If you haven't noticed by now, I'm sort of a jerk.

True, but it is fun (especially if you start out on the Elbow).
Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: st3althsniper22
Heretic sucks (In Halo 2, the Plasmas weren't as overpowered as they are in Halo 3). It's only fun in Snipers and Swat when there's no grenades.

Orbital is just downright bad, no excuses.

Guardian is fun.


Guardian is unbalanced.

  • 09.01.2010 8:23 AM PDT


Posted by: st3althsniper22
True, but it is fun (especially if you start out on the Elbow).
Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: st3althsniper22
Heretic sucks (In Halo 2, the Plasmas weren't as overpowered as they are in Halo 3). It's only fun in Snipers and Swat when there's no grenades.

Orbital is just downright bad, no excuses.

Guardian is fun.


Guardian is unbalanced.


Isn't that the whole point? 'Guardian is fun if you spawn on the good side'

  • 09.01.2010 8:25 AM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns (Hunler116)
Shut the hell up, Halo is my world

Well judging the looks of the Reach maps, it looks like a lot of the same. Forge world maps are going to be the best maps in MM, lol.

  • 09.01.2010 8:28 AM PDT

Why not stop by my File Share while you're here?

~Long Live Halo 2
Only regret is I didn't play more of it.

If you haven't noticed by now, I'm sort of a jerk.

After a few minutes, it kinda evens out though. Although the different spawn areas being so close to each other get annoying.
Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: st3althsniper22
True, but it is fun (especially if you start out on the Elbow).
Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: st3althsniper22
Heretic sucks (In Halo 2, the Plasmas weren't as overpowered as they are in Halo 3). It's only fun in Snipers and Swat when there's no grenades.

Orbital is just downright bad, no excuses.

Guardian is fun.


Guardian is unbalanced.


Isn't that the whole point? 'Guardian is fun if you spawn on the good side'

  • 09.01.2010 8:28 AM PDT


Posted by: X El BaZzA X
that maps should be designed for gameplay, not visual aspects.

Okay, so Orbital looks nice. But in terms of gameplay, many (including myself) would say it is awful, because it's a bunch of tight corridors with bad spawns and no opportunities for flanking.

Okay, so Heretic is a covenant ship. But in terms of gameplay, that doesn't mean it needs plasma starts, especially considering there are just 2 BRs and a Carbine on the map, so AR starts will inevitably lead to much close range combat and much suicide sticking.

Okay, so a wall looks nicer on Guardian if you stick it out a bit and make it a bit jaggedy on the sides. But if I'm trying to walk past it and get stuck on this edge, I don't care about whether or not the wall looks nice. I just want to run around the wall.

Thoughts?


I think Halo 3's maps were designed for gameplay more than visuals. Halo 3 doesn't even run 1080 all that well...

Orbital is a great one sided map. Granted, it is implemented into Matchmaking poorly what with Team Slayer and multiflag objectives being in there, along with it appearing in Mythic Brawl, but its one sided gametypes are usually great.

Heretic starts people off with Plasma grenades because if that didn't happen the Halo 2 fanboys would have gone to Bungie's offices and gone postal. Midship spawned people with plasma grenades in Halo 2, so it happened again in Halo 3. Yes, a lot of sticking goes on, but you can avoid that by using your AR, or Magnum, at a range.

I can say any small areas one gets caught on are annoying, but I think they fixed that up for Reach for sure. They mentioned improved physics at one point and how your feet and grenades wouldn't get caught on stupidly small objects.

I think you are right in that maps shouldn't be designed for visuals and should be designed for gameplay, but I think the examples you listed are more wrong than right. Orbital is as is for one sided objectives (it just has more than just that played on it), Heretic was designed as it was to be a Midship clone, and Guardian only has a couple irritations in its foresty parts. Overall the maps are fine.

  • 09.01.2010 8:30 AM PDT
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I like Orbital alot, It reminds me of Unreal Tournament.

  • 09.01.2010 8:50 AM PDT

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