Halo 3 Forum
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Subject: Don't Bury a Jester in a Tomb Fit for a King
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Warning-if you like Halo 3 a lot you might not like this thread. In fact, you might hate it. I assure you, I am not a troll. These are my opinions. Take them or leave them.

I've already begun to see it. "I'll miss the BR so much." "Reach just isn't as fun as Halo 3." "Remember all the good times?"

Halo 1 and Halo 2 lovers often suffer from serious cases of nostalgia. While I loved both, and though they were both great, each of them had multiple issues. The fabled TSK Pistol? An error, a mistake. All the Button Glitches? Same deal. Halo 1 (mostly in multiplayer) had some questionable design choices, to say the least, and Halo 2 was probably one of the glitchiest games of the century, not to mention filled to the brim with online cheating that made the ranking system somewhat of a joke or the awful weapon balancing. Both were great (especially CE, which still has a fantastic campaign and multiplayer despite its age), but both had plenty of issues.

Halo 3, IMO, deserves less praise. After 3 years of this game, I could safely say it is the greatest overhype of all time, but alas, MW2. Please, B.net, don't start whining about how much better that Reach Halo 3 is. Because it just isn't. Bungie has done a fantastic job of combating all the issues prevalent in Halo 3 for Reach, and I admit as they would that new ones are bound to pop up.

Let's look at what Halo 3 did wrong.

Campaign:
-Weapon Sandbox not interesting/well designed
-Enemies too easy/just plain boring (Brutes way too easy to kill, and the Flood got so nerfed it's not even funny)
-Mediocre plot (and Halo 1 and 2 weren't masterpieces either, but Halo 3 made them look like it)

Multiplayer:

-Lack of Hitscan. This was just a plain stupid decision. This led to incredible amount of bullet loss, leading your shots became inconsistent due to lag, and it caused a boatload of lag. Probably the single greatest issue with Halo 3.

-BR spread. If you are in favor of a precision weapon having uncontrollable spread, then I really don't know what to say. Because that makes absolutely no sense. SWAT became a mess, people won based on connection, people won match ups based on random spread. Not to mention that BR sweeping allows noobs to get headshots.

-No Carbine spawn as starting weapon. Much better weapon than the BR for competitive play.

-Map spawns. I honestly have had it up to here with Bungie telling the community it doesn't know how to spawn right or that its maps have bad spawns when I'm getting gunned down to death on Standoff by a Warthog because I'm out in the middle of the map and getting assassinated from behind at the beginning of Lone Wolves games.... 2 YEARS AFTER RELEASE.

-Guardian. How this never got fixed we will never know. One team gets a shot at Camo, OS, Sniper, Hammer, and can get Bubble Shield. The other team gets a Shotgun. Yay for balance.

-Map+Gametype/Map+Playlist Combinations. What? Slayer on High Ground? Yes, a symmetrical gametype on a one sided objective map is a great idea. High Ground and Valhalla in Team Slayer? Are you serious? 3v3 is possible on Valhalla? Come on. There's plenty more as well.

-You knew it was coming. AR starts. I've had AR starts on Valhalla. I've had AR starts on Avalanche. I've had AR starts on Standoff. It's ridiculous. And the weapon itself is just as bad. It's a -blam!- club, not a gun. And after three years, they're still here. WOW.

-DLC. This isn't Bungie's fault, but it sure does suck. If anything, I should play on DLC maps the most because I paid for them. But Microsoft's policy -blam!- over everyone. By not making any (after Heroic) map packs free and making
some playlists require the maps, I've been split up with my friends, barely have gotten to play some of my favorite maps (LONGSHORE!!!), all of which is -blam!- up. Don't worry though. Seeing how kids had no problem dishing out the money for the MW2 packs, I'm sure Microsoft will use the same DLC policy while making the map packs cost more. If they do either, I'm not purchasing DLC in Reach.

-The Weapon Sandbox. Half of the guns were derivative of each other, few were fun to use, and most were wastes of space.

-The Laser. Why bother putting it in? I'd rather they had just removed vehicles from the game, would have been the same idea, right? Because I'd rather actually be killed by someone using some kind of skill rather than pointing a insta kill, infi range, scoped invisible death beam from anywhere on the map.

-Trueskill. This, my friends, is the worst ranking system of all time. Boosters? Check. Second Accounts? Check. Easy to get to the highest rank? Check. Matches 1's in one playlist with people who have 50s in others? Check. Dependent on other people instead of you? Check. Trueskill was probably the second biggest issue with Halo 3.

-The Banhammer. Yeah, those achievement boosters, EXP boosters and people with pictures of pikachu in their fileshare are real threats to the game, it's not like Squad Battle, MLG, and Doubles are filled with cheaters, standbiers, and host booters who never get banned. Yep. That guy with the pikachu will think twice before messing with Bungie. Thank god for the Banhammer!

-The Betrayal system. After 3 years of this game I still have no idea how the hell this works. It seems completely random, like Bungie kidnapped a bi-polar clown and makes him monitor every single betrayal that occurs and then decides whether or not to give the option to boot based on his feelings.

-Community Maps in Matchmaking. I've seen so many map that make Snowbound and Isolation look like they were made by 5 years olds that it is ridiculous. Seriously. A giant wealth of community content is right there. But no. Guardian for the billionth time. Sigh.

-Maps. Orbital? Snowbound? Valhalla? Standoff? Epitaph? High Ground? Isolation? There is a theme here. I blame the bad maps on the bad core gameplay though. I think some of them would be a lot better if it was better. But honestly, why are you making so many maps (Snowbound, Epitaph) that have basically no use in the game?

-The netcode/matching/connections/host. Whatever you want to call it, there was so much lag in Halo 3 it was unbelievable. Even worse, it could continually match you up with people from Australia, New Zealand, the other -blam!- side of the world, and also refused to switch host when the game was lagging like crap. There are numerous other issues involved here as well.

-The Melee system. 10 meter super lunge and 2 hits to kill. Case closed.

-Finally, drum-roll please. The Core Gamplay. Whether it's movement speed, the feel of the weapons, equipment, spawns, whatever. Halo 3 just had bad core gameplay. It's made up of a bunch of things, like the bad sandbox, the no hitscan, the AR starts, but it's a culmination of bad design decisions and just bad ideas in general.

Overall, it's important to look back at Halo 3 fondly. You should remember the good things (that are mostly not listed because that is not the purpose of this thread). However, it's also important to understand that it had a ton of issues and that it should not be looked back upon with so much nostalgia that you actually start ignoring its issues. If you think I'm being mad and hateful, maybe I am. Maybe I need this, maybe other people do as well. Maybe I need this one last rant over all the things about this game that has pissed me off over the years so that I can later look back at the game fondly. I understand that you guys may not agree with some of my points, but I think at least most/some will ring true. Thoughts?

  • 09.04.2010 12:46 PM PDT
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Yet, you still decided to play 9,000 games of it. get outta here you troll.

  • 09.04.2010 1:53 PM PDT
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I agree with everything you just said.

  • 09.04.2010 1:56 PM PDT
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I am the hand of fate!


Posted by: Oh T3h Noez
Yet, you still decided to play 9,000 games of it. get outta here you troll.

There are certainly a lot of good aspects. Forge, Theater, among others. It's still a good game. Your logic sucks. I can't criticize something because I'm involved in it? Yeah, right. I have good memories, but overall, just look how much was wrong with it.

  • 09.04.2010 1:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mava665

Posted by: Oh T3h Noez
Yet, you still decided to play 9,000 games of it. get outta here you troll.

There are certainly a lot of good aspects. Forge, Theater, among others. It's still a good game. Your logic sucks. I can't criticize something because I'm involved in it? Yeah, right. I have good memories, but overall, just look how much was wrong with it.


No your just an idiot. You bash a game that you have spent somewhere around 43 days of game-time and expect someone with half a brain to not think your trolling? Obviously you must if you have dedicated that much time to the game. You don't spend that much time on a game you dislike. You might as well just play gary's mod. and film it if that's how you feel about forge and theater.

  • 09.04.2010 2:23 PM PDT

If your never sure if a post has sarcasm or not, my posts are cooked in pot of sarcasm, has sarcastic filling added to it, and then has lots of little sarcastic sprinkles put on top.

Good post OP. I think a good majority of us know that the game has plenty of failings but will choose to remember its better points than the negative.

Instead of remembering all those bad spawns I had and when i got my ass handed to me by a squad of generals i will choose to remember the epic moments that happened. The great comebacks for the wins, the perfections and all the great laughs that myself and my friends have had.

  • 09.04.2010 2:28 PM PDT
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I am the hand of fate!


Posted by: Vanguard242
@ OP,
I agree with EVERYTHING you just said there. Yet when I'm playing and all of this gets annoying and I complain about it to my friends, they call me an idiot and kick me from parties without even attempting to listen. It kinda sucks that alot of people are so obsessed with Halo 3 that they can't even admit that all of this is a problem. >_>

[EDIT] My main problem with the melee system, though, is that whoever has more health wins the fight, even if the other person hit a full second earlier. Because it makes a LOT of sense.

Crap, I knew I forgot something. Halo 3 is a good game, because the series has such strong core gameplay that even after Bungie trashed half of it the multiplayer was still very good. But there was so much crap wrong with it that Bungie either didn't fix for no reason, didn't explain, or wouldn't change because they felt like it that it really ruined a lot of the game. I just don't want to hear in a year how much better Halo 3 is than Reach, when it has this many issues.

  • 09.04.2010 2:35 PM PDT

Reply to each of your points:
- The hit-scan was taken out with consideration to reduce lag between players. Also it was put there to reduce the range of the BR, but keep the ability to ping snipers at long range. Although i agree with your point, it is not entirely accurate.

- BR spread: see above ^^^

- I agree, every weapon should have been made possible to spawn with.

- There will always be bad spawns... at least its better than any other game's spawn system. (at least imo)

- Guardian: one side gets a chance at OS, Camo, and Snipe. The other gets Camo, Shotty, and if you know what you're doing, its really easy to get snipe also. This is the reason why i consider MLG to be a lot better (in terms of competitiveness).

- i guess you have a point there with the game type/map combos.

- i completely 100% agree with your point on ARs

- well i bought halo 3: odst... which isn't much of a game but, i guess i got all the dlc i need. The dlc for halo was a mix of really good maps (e.g. foundry, sandbox, heretic, assembly), and some pointless ones too(e.g. ghost town).

- agreed. Another reason to like custom games, or MLG.

- the laser is actually one of my favorite things about the game. unless: both teams have a laser, like on sandtrap. then i agree with you.

- true-skill definitely had its drawbacks. But, it was THE MOST addicting ranking systems in any game I've ever played. Yes, more than COD

- i agree with the ban-hammer thing... but there aren't as many free cheaters out there than you say.

- betrayal system is stupid... but what do you expect them to do. the game cant read minds, so theres no way to know if its on purpose or not.

- there are some... but i agree with you. Although bungie maps aren't THAT bad, i still prefer: wait for it: MLG

- most maps are good. the only ones bad imo are: Epitaph, ghost town, and some ones they made (tundra etc.)

- you sure you don't have bad Internet or something? Halo 3 was the least laggy game iv ever played so far, and I'm tired of hearing people complain about it. the only other game that competes with it is MW2, and that game is almost FUBAR.

- if you take out ARs, the melee system is perfectly fine

- core gameplay is fine, MLG perfects it.

I don't play much video games anymore, but I'm just saying my opinion... just as you did and i respect that.

  • 09.04.2010 2:36 PM PDT
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I am the hand of fate!


Posted by: Oh T3h Noez

Posted by: Mava665

Posted by: Oh T3h Noez
Yet, you still decided to play 9,000 games of it. get outta here you troll.

There are certainly a lot of good aspects. Forge, Theater, among others. It's still a good game. Your logic sucks. I can't criticize something because I'm involved in it? Yeah, right. I have good memories, but overall, just look how much was wrong with it.


No your just an idiot. You bash a game that you have spent somewhere around 43 days of game-time and expect someone with half a brain to not think your trolling? Obviously you must if you have dedicated that much time to the game. You don't spend that much time on a game you dislike. You might as well just play gary's mod. and film it if that's how you feel about forge and theater.

If you keep putting words in my mouth, then you're the troll. Halo 3 had a lot of good things about it, as I've said multiple times. It's a good game. I dislike plenty of things about it, and that's what this thread is about. What did you dislike about Halo 3, what are you glad you won't have to deal with anymore? That's what this is. I admit I played Halo 3 because I spent a while being good at it, and didn't want to spend months getting good at a new game when I knew another Halo was around the corner. I only really started to understand a year/year and a half ago all the things that were wrong with the game, and by that time there were no other multiplayer games I was high on, so I decided to stick with it. A lot of my friends played it, I became a bit of a custom game rat.

I can't say goodbye to Halo 3 with a smile. It's like I've been forced to deal with the lesser of two evils in a lot of ways for awhile, and am finally able to be released. After years of getting pissed off by a lot of things, I need to vent. I need to give it one final lick, let out my remaining frustration, so that it doesn't harbor. Reach, here I come.

  • 09.04.2010 2:44 PM PDT

Agreed. Especially when it comes to campaign. I can hardly stand playing through campaign even once. The maps are straight-forward and the enemies hardly present a challenge.

In the case of multiplayer, I agree with you in regards to your point on the weapons in the game. What is the use of having three or four weapons that essentially perform the same core function? The maps in Halo 3 weren't the greatest either. Orbital comes to mind. AR starts on some maps were a pain as well.

The other factors you bring up (like the melee system) are a give and take or simply cannot be avoided (connections and host in a P2P game). Any sort of melee system will suck in a P2P game.

  • 09.04.2010 2:45 PM PDT
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I am the hand of fate!


Posted by: womblemk3
Good post OP. I think a good majority of us know that the game has plenty of failings but will choose to remember its better points than the negative.

Instead of remembering all those bad spawns I had and when i got my ass handed to me by a squad of generals i will choose to remember the epic moments that happened. The great comebacks for the wins, the perfections and all the great laughs that myself and my friends have had.

I hope that within a few months I'll be there. I have some great memories, and eventually they'll be most of what I remember. I'm trying to get all the annoyance and hatred for the things I disliked out, in thread form so others can do the same.

  • 09.04.2010 2:46 PM PDT


Posted by: Mava665
I can't say goodbye to Halo 3 with a smile. It's like I've been forced to deal with the lesser of two evils in a lot of ways for awhile, and am finally able to be released. After years of getting pissed off by a lot of things, I need to vent. I need to give it one final lick, let out my remaining frustration, so that it doesn't harbor. Reach, here I come.

Seriously? lol....If it pisses you off, DON'T PLAY THE GAME. I'm so tired of hearing people -blam!- about the game, yet they turn on and play it nearly everyday. You bring up valid points, but they are completely nullified by the fact that you continue to play the game.

  • 09.04.2010 2:48 PM PDT
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I do have a lot of fond memories of Halo's 1 and 2. Though I never played them online. (At least not until the end of H2.) If someone started exploiting a glitch or something they were usually within throwing distance. lol Halo 3 was fun, but I can remember my friend's and I getting so frustrated with it that we'd stay away from matchmaking for month's at a time. So yea I agree with your reasons why it was lacking. The Reach Beta had its issues but I didn't get upset about it because I knew they'd get fixed. In fact there were only four things I thought needed tweaking. Grenades (Taking them down from 11.), time between melees, headshot tracking, and a slight dial back for armor lock. All of those things have been done so I'm looking forward to Reach. I hope you are too.

[Edited on 09.04.2010 3:13 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2010 2:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Thats Cooper
Ok yes H3 was bad in comparison to 2 and HCE. That's a given. The only reason people will look back on it fondly is if reach is even worse.

The beta was worse than H3, that's why you see people saying h3> reach and stuff like that.

The jury is still out on the full game though so we'll see.

I liked the Beta a lot more than Halo 3. The only thing in Reach so far I honestly can't stand is Armor Lock. I think when all is said and done, Reach is a culmination of what Bungie has learned from 1, 2, and 3. Maybe the definitive Halo, but for now and probably awhile if not forever that title will stay with Halo 1.

  • 09.04.2010 2:51 PM PDT
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reach Beta > H3

  • 09.04.2010 2:52 PM PDT
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*wonders how New Clan Recruitment For Shadow Pack thread gets 55 replies*

*reads "Hi I'm Ashley. . ." *

[Question Answered]

*proceeds to read on, shakes head, and gently laughs*


Posted by: Mava665
-The Betrayal system. After 3 years of this game I still have no idea how the hell this works. It seems completely random, like Bungie kidnapped a bi-polar clown and makes him monitor every single betrayal that occurs and then decides whether or not to give the option to boot based on his feelings.

Nothing a quick search can't solve.

Posted by: JonnyOThan
You're killing teammates on purpose, so as far as I can tell you deserve to get booted. The game remembers your betrayals for longer than one game. This is probably why you got booted after just 1 betrayal.

If you never kill your teammates on purpose (even when they start it) you will very rarely get booted.

If someone is shooting you, let them kill you once or twice and you'll get the option to boot them. Problem solved.

  • 09.04.2010 2:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: The DMR

Posted by: Mava665
I can't say goodbye to Halo 3 with a smile. It's like I've been forced to deal with the lesser of two evils in a lot of ways for awhile, and am finally able to be released. After years of getting pissed off by a lot of things, I need to vent. I need to give it one final lick, let out my remaining frustration, so that it doesn't harbor. Reach, here I come.

Seriously? lol....If it pisses you off, DON'T PLAY THE GAME. I'm so tired of hearing people -blam!- about the game, yet they turn on and play it nearly everyday. You bring up valid points, but they are completely nullified by the fact that you continue to play the game.

My points aren't nullified at all. I play Halo 3 because it is in my opinion the best multiplayer experience I can have right now from a FPS. It also does have a very addictive quality to play it over a long time. I enjoy a lot of things in the game, but that doesn't mean there are parts I don't hate. A ton of people who play CoD hate things about it. Commando, etc. There are some things where you say "this is what I play. This is what I'm a fan of. Through thick and thin. This is something I get." That's what it's like for me and Halo 3.

Edit: My points aren't nullified anything. Lol. One of the worst English sentences I've ever written.

[Edited on 09.04.2010 3:03 PM PDT]

  • 09.04.2010 2:58 PM PDT
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I am Santa. You were not good for Christmas this year. You get the cake that was baked after the hookers were put in it.

I agree with mostly everything in here. Some of the stuff Bungie somewhat has already covered (although maybe a bit sketchy on) such as the Banhammer and DLC restrictions and what not, but I can honestly say that a lot of this is true.

The only thing I really disagree with is that people will say "H3 > Reach"

Of course people will search for nostalgia, but to Halo 3? Halo 3 is a disgrace compared to Halo Reach, IMO.

  • 09.04.2010 3:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Santa CIaus
I agree with mostly everything in here. Some of the stuff Bungie somewhat has already covered (although maybe a bit sketchy on) such as the Banhammer and DLC restrictions and what not, but I can honestly say that a lot of this is true.

The only thing I really disagree with is that people will say "H3 > Reach"

Of course people will search for nostalgia, but to Halo 3? Halo 3 is a disgrace compared to Halo Reach, IMO.

Exactly how I feel. What did they say about DLC restrictions? I don't blame Bungie for that, but I certainly am not a fan of it. All I've heard Bungie say is "The Legendary DLC won't be free" and "The Mythic 2 DLC may not come to Marketplace".

  • 09.04.2010 3:05 PM PDT

First in social ranked firefight campaign competitive and ODST goose splatters.
My other account is UrbanTwisticle
20,000+ total matchmade goose splatters

Check out my YouTube Channel

You brought up a couple of valid things to talk about; however most of your list dealt with matters of your own opinion not actual issues such as cheating.

Everyone has their favorite maps and weapons and everything else... sit down take a deep breath and give yourself a pat on the back.

  • 09.04.2010 4:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Flax72
I agree with everything you just said.

  • 09.04.2010 4:48 PM PDT
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Love my girl, 4/11/11.

Agreed with everything OP pointed out.

  • 09.04.2010 4:52 PM PDT

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