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Posted by: MrGreenWithAGun
Posted by: OldLegoexpert
Posted by: Godly_Perfection
Thank you Ardly... I actually haven't truly discovered any true theory behind the differences of designing a asymmetric vs a symmetric map. When I do come up with one you can count on me turning it into a lesson bro.
What are symmetric and asymmetric maps??? I've been wondering for ages and it's been killing me!
Symmetrical map layout are those that do not give one team an advantage over the other and have some type of objective associated with the game type. You do not want one team to initially spawn half the distance to the objective or fixed goal than the other team, or they would have an advantage.
But symmetry in the context of the game type property is neither a map nor game type, but a property of game types. It has nothing to do with map layout, but it does influence map layout heavily. It has nothing to do with FFA v Team, although FFA is always asymmetrical. It is not spawning, but it influences where you set initial spawn points and should lead to neutral respawn points exclusively for some types of games.
If you have any question about which game types are symmetrical, tag an object as symmetrical and try out every game type. It will be present only in those that are symmetrical and absent in those that are asymmetrical. You will find that all FFA games (not game types) are asymmetrical. This is because you cannot form a symmetrical game play between numerous individuals, even with objectives (e.g.- odd ball). And some team games are symmetrical, while others are asymmetrical.
Note that headhunter has a bug in it where the property is reversed for FFA v team. I believe I know why it was overlooked, and while it is insignificant in almost every case, it is definitely wrong.
Someone said that slayer was always symmetrical. (I copied his post, but I don't know who it was and I am trying to find the original post now.) This claim is wrong in both theory and practice. All slayer games, regardless of team or FFA, are asymmetrical. This is because there is no objective or fixed goal that one must maintain equal distance for team respawn. You could respawn anywhere on the map, which can give you an advantage that an opponent had prior.
In this regard, one must keep in mind that maps for slayer should use neutral respawns (to support slayer team), particularly if they have asymmetrical layout.
Very, very close, but you were wrong about Slayer. The other guy was wrong too, but just because he lumped FFA in with Team (as it sounds).
Utilizing the correct formulae for placing respawn modifiers, such as Respawn Zones, Anti Respawn Zones, and Weak Respawn Zones, one can make a game of Team Slayer as Symmetrical as they want.
The key is to place Respawn Zones, set to the team's colors, to define their spawning territory. Then, once that has been done, grid the map off (pretend that the zones you just placed don't exist, or simply ignore them) using Weak and Anti Respawn Zones to influence where you would like your players to spawn more or less often. Note: as always, it is a good idea to make sure the entire map is gridded off using these, as one will influence the Zones adjacent to it whether it has spawns inside of it or not. Remember to keep the Anti and Weak's set to Neutral.
This would make it so that players will only spawn in certain areas, depending on the team they are on, which could be used to create a perfectly symmetrical game experience, with no base switching (or spawn camping if done right).
On top of this, the map would have to be made in a way that allows for symmetrical game play. Coag and *shivers* Hemorrhage are essentially Symmetric, but are not perfectly so, and TRULY Symmetric Games are playable on them, as they offer that near-perfect Symmetric layout.
As you said, Symmetric Games, by definition, rely on the Game Type, which would mean that each team would simply have to have the same objective goals as the other (i.e. both teams are assaulting AND defending at the same time or both teams are trying to gather flags or both teams are attempting to collects skulls, not when one team is assaulting and the other is defending, or one team tries to take territories FROM the other team).
A TRULY Symmetric Game would require both a Symmetric Game Type AND a Symmetric Map. This would make Multiflag CTF on Coag TRULY Symmetrical, while Multiflag CTF on Headlong could never be more than Symmetrical.
This could also further extrapolate to games with more than two teams, wherein the map would require multiple rotational symmetries or a radially symmetric layout to be TRULY Symmetric as well as a Game Type that had all teams having the same objectives at once (i.e. all 3 teams are assaulting and defending, not 2 teams assaulting and one team defending, if that is even possible, which I haven't checked). Of course, a Non-Symmetric Map (or at least one that doesn't have enough symmetry for the number of teams) can still have Symmetric Games with all teams having the same objectives.
To clarify, I am defining a Symmetric Map as one that has a Symmetric Layout as well as a Symmetric set of OBJECTIVES. This means that they are in the same respective locations FOR ALL TEAMS.
So yeah. That's what I can think of for now. As always, for more explanation of how to set up spawning, check the OP for a link to the Forge Handbook and Click on the Spawning Guide link on the left, or just click here.
[Edited on 10.27.2010 1:49 AM PDT]