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This topic has moved here: Subject: Forge Lessons w/ PDF ***UPDATED*** Lesson 32 (10/26/10)
  • Subject: Forge Lessons w/ PDF ***UPDATED*** Lesson 32 (10/26/10)
Subject: Forge Lessons w/ PDF ***UPDATED*** Lesson 32 (10/26/10)

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Just wanted to say these lessons are really helpful when I'm forging a map. I haven't read all of them, but the parts I always remember are Spawning, 1st impressions, and making weapons eye-catching.

The last thing you want is to have players frustrated when they play your map. Things have to be obvious so they can find it with little effort. If they have to ask you how to get to it, your map needs work.

With spawning, I always ask myself if I want to spawn here at any time during a match. I'm still getting in the habit of good spawn placement, but for the most part my maps don't have spawns that frustrate players. I strive to make them safe and obvious to players.

For weapons, I want you to find it on your first play through. On my Downtown map, it was a challenge to make the Sniper placement feel natural and obvious while making it realistic and balanced. For the final versions, I ended up placing it immediately in front of the player as they exit the Elevator, but I did it in a way so you don't have to out-snipe the other sniper as soon as you got it.

I also try to make the weapon set even for players. Some weapons are good as neutral ones, but IMO a Sniper Rifle shouldn't be unless it's a map like Rat's Nest. Then again, I'm more of a symmetric builder, so don't expect me to make crazy 1-sided maps anytime soon.

Thanks for your contribution, OP.


Thanks for the testimony Goat. It is much appreciated. And as far as your Downtown map goes, I actually enjoyed it. While I do think that there are a lot of areas on your map that don't get used, I think overall it played very well.



Posted by: Spectrum Sam
Godly_Perfection,

These forge lessons are fantastic. They clearly prove that there is much, much more to making maps than simple putting that next to this.

How many lessons do you intend to provide?
You deserve a custom member title like 'Forge Master' or 'Map God' as a reward for volunteering to make these forge lessons.

So thank you very much for these lessons!


I'm not sure exactly how many I am going to be doing, but right now I have enough for 50 total. So I'll be going on for quite a while.

  • 10.30.2010 9:44 PM PDT

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Posted by: Godly_Perfection
Thanks for the testimony Goat. It is much appreciated. And as far as your Downtown map goes, I actually enjoyed it. While I do think that there are a lot of areas on your map that don't get used, I think overall it played very well.


Hopefully the redesigns I've made for version 7.2 make better usage of the space.

  • 10.30.2010 9:48 PM PDT

Check out my Forge Handbook blog at http://forge-life.blogspot.com for everything you could possibly need to know about the technical aspect of using Forge 2.0.

The Guide is nearly complete, but there is always room for new submissions, so remember to check back.

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Just wanted to say these lessons are really helpful when I'm forging a map. I haven't read all of them, but the parts I always remember are Spawning, 1st impressions, and making weapons eye-catching.

The last thing you want is to have players frustrated when they play your map. Things have to be obvious so they can find it with little effort. If they have to ask you how to get to it, your map needs work.

With spawning, I always ask myself if I want to spawn here at any time during a match. I'm still getting in the habit of good spawn placement, but for the most part my maps don't have spawns that frustrate players. I strive to make them safe and obvious to players.

For weapons, I want you to find it on your first play through. On my Downtown map, it was a challenge to make the Sniper placement feel natural and obvious while making it realistic and balanced. For the final versions, I ended up placing it immediately in front of the player as they exit the Elevator, but I did it in a way so you don't have to out-snipe the other sniper as soon as you got it.

I also try to make the weapon set even for players. Some weapons are good as neutral ones, but IMO a Sniper Rifle shouldn't be unless it's a map like Rat's Nest. Then again, I'm more of a symmetric builder, so don't expect me to make crazy 1-sided maps anytime soon.

Thanks for your contribution, OP.



I would definitely suggest something "Underground" in terms of paths, ones that travel both down to the bottom of that tunnel entrance looking thing and across the center and in to the buildings. Also, making the inside of the buildings feel larger would really make the gameplay shoot through the roof in those areas, too cramped, grenades become noob tools. Take note that I said "become," not "are."

  • 10.30.2010 9:48 PM PDT

Join Halo Haven for all things related to Halo 4


Tell her that If you jingle my bells, Ill promise you a white Christmas - Call Me Venom
The world can't end next month. My yogurt expires in 2013 - Princess Cadence
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Posted by: The Ardly374
I would definitely suggest something "Underground" in terms of paths, ones that travel both down to the bottom of that tunnel entrance looking thing and across the center and in to the buildings. Also, making the inside of the buildings feel larger would really make the gameplay shoot through the roof in those areas, too cramped, grenades become noob tools. Take note that I said "become," not "are."


The problem with that is the buildings are upside down XXL platforms. As far as geometry goes, I can't really increase the interior sizes.

I'll consider the tunnel though. That's a great idea! I'll just have to free up some budget >.>

  • 10.30.2010 9:50 PM PDT

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

The underground tunnel idea is definitely an interesting one. I spent most of my time on the side of the map with the flags though so I have very little idea of what is going on on the other half of the map. The game was a blast though. And I am looking forward to checking out your redesign Goat. I'm glad the lessons are helping bro.

  • 10.31.2010 11:41 AM PDT
Subject: Forge Lessons w/ PDF ***UPDATED*** Lesson 33/34/35 (10/30/10)


Posted by: MrGreenWithAGun
As I mentioned before, Slayer in all forms are asymmetrical.


Team Slayer is Symmetrical.

Symmetrical = All teams have an even Objective. (Killing eachother, capping flags, etc)
Asymmetrical = Teams have different Objectives. (One Flag, One Bomb, Infection.)

SLAYER, meaning FFA SLAYER, is Asymmetrical. Really the only exception.

[Edited on 10.31.2010 3:18 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2010 3:17 PM PDT

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

I think they mean that the game is recognizing slayer as an Asymmetric gametype. If anything, it may be a bug because Slayer has always been symmetric since everyone has the same goal. And slayer was definitely symmetric in Halo 3 based on the symmetry option.

  • 10.31.2010 4:48 PM PDT


Posted by: BlindFireSniper

Posted by: MrGreenWithAGun
As I mentioned before, Slayer in all forms are asymmetrical.


Team Slayer is Symmetrical.

Symmetrical = All teams have an even Objective. (Killing eachother, capping flags, etc)
Asymmetrical = Teams have different Objectives. (One Flag, One Bomb, Infection.)

SLAYER, meaning FFA SLAYER, is Asymmetrical. Really the only exception.


The game engine will not spawn symmetrical tagged objects for Slayer, but will spawn asymmetrical tagged objects - thus it is recognized by the game engine as asymmetrical - all flavors, both team and FFA.


[Edited on 10.31.2010 9:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2010 9:04 PM PDT


Posted by: Godly_Perfection
I think they mean that the game is recognizing slayer as an Asymmetric gametype. If anything, it may be a bug because Slayer has always been symmetric since everyone has the same goal. And slayer was definitely symmetric in Halo 3 based on the symmetry option.




I know that HeadHunter has a bug in it regarding the symmetry property - that is a given. The team play reports asymmetrical, while the FFA reports symmetrical. The game for team play plays like a flag game, except that the goal is moving. Even if the team HeadHunter should be asymmetrical, there is no way that FFA HeadHunter should be symmetrical.


You might be right about Slayer having a bug in the symmetry property, but I doubt it. Team Slayer was treated by Bungie as an asymmetrical game even back in Halo 3. Do you remember playing it on High Ground? That was one of the most dramatically asymmetrical map layouts I had ever seen.



  • 10.31.2010 9:14 PM PDT

Check out my Forge Handbook blog at http://forge-life.blogspot.com for everything you could possibly need to know about the technical aspect of using Forge 2.0.

The Guide is nearly complete, but there is always room for new submissions, so remember to check back.

I do hope that the repetition stops soon...Slayer most likely IS bugged, based on information from the past games, but it doesn't matter because that is simply how it is right now.

  • 11.01.2010 7:32 AM PDT

_.Kiz._

Saved.

cool story bro. If you dont learn how to create awesome maps from this, then SUX2BU.

[Edited on 11.01.2010 12:54 PM PDT]

  • 11.01.2010 12:54 PM PDT

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Any chance we'll see the lastest three in b.net threads?

I like the format better that way :)

  • 11.01.2010 1:29 PM PDT
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Hmm i think so

tHX BRO for posting all that

[Edited on 11.01.2010 1:32 PM PDT]

  • 11.01.2010 1:32 PM PDT

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Any chance we'll see the lastest three in b.net threads?

I like the format better that way :)


They are already posted bro... I transfer them as soon as I post them. You will always find the BNet versions of the threads in the OP. Here are the three latest ones in BNet thread format, just like you asked. ;)

Lesson 33: Continuity
Lesson 34: Peer Review
Lesson 35: Failure

[Edited on 11.01.2010 1:37 PM PDT]

  • 11.01.2010 1:37 PM PDT

Check out The Ardly374's Forge Handbook in the OP. It really has a lot of technical stuff about forge. Godly_Perfection and The Ardly374 have really made an effort to give something to the forge communtity. If you're interested in how to make your maps play well and be fun, use Godly's forge lessons. If you're interested in how to make your maps work the way you wanted them to, check out Ardly's blog. Congrats to both of you!

  • 11.01.2010 4:35 PM PDT

Join Halo Haven for all things related to Halo 4


Tell her that If you jingle my bells, Ill promise you a white Christmas - Call Me Venom
The world can't end next month. My yogurt expires in 2013 - Princess Cadence
If Apple invented a car, would it have windows? - Xxembers

Godly, could you do a lesson on popular Forge techniques (if you haven't already)? I'm sure it's online somewhere already, but many people could still benefit from it here.

For instance, using the corner to light up objects and using Platform XXLs to make buildings are just a few popular ones. Then of course, there are the ladders with Shield Doors, empty Teleporter frame decorations, etc.

Just little tricks of the trade to make a map look pleasing. The light-up corner really helped illuminate the Rocket Launcher for version 10 of Downtown. Holding crouch while moving pieces also helped smooth it out (although the map will go off coordinates after a safe; stupid).

[Edited on 11.02.2010 11:13 AM PDT]

  • 11.02.2010 11:13 AM PDT
Subject: Forge Lessons ***UPDATED*** Lesson 30 (10/18/10)


Posted by: Godly_Perfection
So I had this interesting idea for setting up a challenge over at my blog that utilizes these lessons. I was thinking about setting up a map and fully forging it myself. And then use it as a template for a challenge. What people would do is take the map and they would have to finish it up. The catch is that you will not be allowed to use any objects under the structure category. So you can only use scenery, spawning, objectives, weapons, vehicles, and gadgets. I would give you a gametype to build for... say one flag CTF. As a designer you would have to take the map and decide where teams spawn, setup your spawn perspectives properly, use incentives, eye catching, and all of the other forge lessons to perfect the maps gameplay. Then I would get a group of people who have not seen the map before play on all of the maps or the top X and vote for the best playing one.

What do you guys think of this?


What happened to this challenge? Was it forgotten in the sea of comments?

  • 11.02.2010 6:16 PM PDT

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Godly, could you do a lesson on popular Forge techniques (if you haven't already)? I'm sure it's online somewhere already, but many people could still benefit from it here.

For instance, using the corner to light up objects and using Platform XXLs to make buildings are just a few popular ones. Then of course, there are the ladders with Shield Doors, empty Teleporter frame decorations, etc.

Just little tricks of the trade to make a map look pleasing. The light-up corner really helped illuminate the Rocket Launcher for version 10 of Downtown. Holding crouch while moving pieces also helped smooth it out (although the map will go off coordinates after a safe; stupid).


You know Goat, I've gotten a lot of requests for that. I think I may actually end up doing it and calling it Forge Tips and Tricks. I'll use the tricks section for things like the light and the fine tuning. The tips section I will use for a translated forge lessons section that takes a bunch of little tips like don't face spawns towards a wall and make the majority of your map to where you don't have to jump too much.


Posted by: OldLegoexpert

Posted by: Godly_Perfection
So I had this interesting idea for setting up a challenge over at my blog that utilizes these lessons. I was thinking about setting up a map and fully forging it myself. And then use it as a template for a challenge. What people would do is take the map and they would have to finish it up. The catch is that you will not be allowed to use any objects under the structure category. So you can only use scenery, spawning, objectives, weapons, vehicles, and gadgets. I would give you a gametype to build for... say one flag CTF. As a designer you would have to take the map and decide where teams spawn, setup your spawn perspectives properly, use incentives, eye catching, and all of the other forge lessons to perfect the maps gameplay. Then I would get a group of people who have not seen the map before play on all of the maps or the top X and vote for the best playing one.

What do you guys think of this?


What happened to this challenge? Was it forgotten in the sea of comments?


I already told you Lego. It will not happen for a while since I'm a busy person and a map has to be built specifically for the contest. It was just an idea. If it happens, you will hear about it.

  • 11.03.2010 11:41 AM PDT

I just realized this. The forge monitor's "eye" is the Marathon game symbol. This is the forge monitor. Look at the resemblance! I realized this when looking closely at Godly's bungie avatar. Share this to those who have not yet realized. BTW, Marathon is an old game that Bungie made.

  • 11.03.2010 5:18 PM PDT

This is like the Forge Bible: Halo Reach Edition. Thanks very much for putting so much time into this for the sake of others, now I will definitely be reading your lessons as I create a map. Thank You <3

  • 11.03.2010 6:14 PM PDT
Subject: Are you waiting to make maps in Forge 2.0? This will help you wait...

Robot Academy ] | United World Gaming | The Arch

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RA is a Halo Discussion and Off-Topic group that holds gamedays, contests, and group map projects

Thanks GP! I actually will now be able to make my first competitive map using your Forge Lessons :D

  • 11.03.2010 6:19 PM PDT
Subject: Forge Lessons w/ PDF ***UPDATED*** Lesson 33/34/35 (10/30/10)

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

For those interested I wrote up a comparison of Carney's Map Design 101 and my Forge Lessons. It gives a good summary of the lessons thus far and allows you to see level design from both perspectives at once.

BNet Version

Original Version @ ReachingPerfection.com

[Edited on 11.04.2010 3:42 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2010 3:41 PM PDT

Happy Birthday to me, Happy Birthday to me XD

Anyway, thanks for these. If I get into forge, I'll read all of them :D

  • 11.05.2010 10:19 AM PDT

Check out my personal game/level design blog at:
http://www.reachingperfection.com

Want to get better at forging maps? Check out my
Forge Lessons.

Looking for a quality map to play with your friends? Then check out: Affinity and Think Twice.

Posted by: Zhao Yun
Happy Birthday to me, Happy Birthday to me XD

Anyway, thanks for these. If I get into forge, I'll read all of them :D


Well happy birthday to you good sir. I hope you enjoy it. Also if you do get into forge, I wish you the best of luck good sir.

  • 11.05.2010 10:39 AM PDT

-Nikki

You have helped me understand something that, before I found this thread, was completely and utterly lost about. Thank you for being great. =)

  • 11.05.2010 3:44 PM PDT