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  • Subject: *Mythic Difficulty* -NOW CONQUERED- for Halo: Reach (ALL SKULLS ON!!!)
Subject: *Mythic Difficulty* -NOW CONQUERED- for Halo: Reach (ALL SKULLS ON!!!)


Posted by: MATCLAN
I haven't seen the Sword Base skip, but the Forklift and gate thing has been around since Halo CE. People have always used vehicles to get through thin barriers or launch themselves to ridiculous places if speedrunning or just exploring.

Also, that last battle on Nightfall really just looks time consuming more than anything else. I have no doubts that everyone who used the skip method could have fought those battles and still come out on top. But while there's an almost race like fervour to get the first few spots on the list than people will take shortcuts. It's just human nature.


Much the same as in Halo 3 Mythic and ODST Mythic, I'm in it for the challenge, not a number. I thought it was much the same for everyone else. I mean, if that wasn't the case, why would you even bother? And if it is the case, why would you detract from the challenge?

You say that everyone who skipped that part could do it, but I would say it's harder than the mining facility with the Zealot on Tip of the Spear by a long shot and a prelude to more difficult levels. Weapons despawn every now and then, so you're going to run out of spare Plasma Pistols, among other things, quite quickly.

  • 10.16.2010 10:49 AM PDT
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The Mythic Threads (Halo 3) (ODST) (Reach)

Yeah Dark, what's up with that? Did you waste exactly everything?

Either way I'd rage if I were you. Specially since Michael_Archer just said MEGA fail to you. I would look for him and kill him.
Posted by: Michael_Archer

Posted by: jew man man
Didn't have any Needle Rifle ammo for last two Invis Elites.


The level is overflowing with needle rifles. There's a crate in the comms room, there's a crate on either side of the hologram powerup in the hangar, crates in the corner of the hangar, a crate in the room where the two elites come out when that marine says "got plenty of arms and ammo." and to top it off, there's a crate in the bridge itself.

So I would call that MEGA fail, jew man man. LOL.

  • 10.16.2010 11:04 AM PDT
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"The one who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the crowd. The one who walks alone, is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been."
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Posted by: Michael_Archer

Posted by: jew man man
Didn't have any Needle Rifle ammo for last two Invis Elites.


The level is overflowing with needle rifles. There's a crate in the comms room, there's a crate on either side of the hologram powerup in the hangar, crates in the corner of the hangar, a crate in the room where the two elites come out when that marine says "got plenty of arms and ammo." and to top it off, there's a crate in the bridge itself.

So I would call that MEGA fail, jew man man. LOL.


I picked one up in the Hanger to the left side. Didn't grab any extra ammo up till the Bridge. Used the crate in the Bridge.
Oh and btw, there's two boxes in the Bridge. One is towards the back though.

  • 10.16.2010 11:07 AM PDT
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Congrats Legendary Smile you rock the block because I'm not even going to atempt that haha.

  • 10.16.2010 11:11 AM PDT

Twenty-ninth Halo 3 Mythic Conqueror
Eleventh Halo 3: ODST Mythic Conqueror
Fifth Halo: Reach Mythic Conqueror


Posted by: Vincent K

Posted by: MATCLAN
I haven't seen the Sword Base skip, but the Forklift and gate thing has been around since Halo CE. People have always used vehicles to get through thin barriers or launch themselves to ridiculous places if speedrunning or just exploring.

Also, that last battle on Nightfall really just looks time consuming more than anything else. I have no doubts that everyone who used the skip method could have fought those battles and still come out on top. But while there's an almost race like fervour to get the first few spots on the list than people will take shortcuts. It's just human nature.


Much the same as in Halo 3 Mythic and ODST Mythic, I'm in it for the challenge, not a number. I thought it was much the same for everyone else. I mean, if that wasn't the case, why would you even bother? And if it is the case, why would you detract from the challenge?

You say that everyone who skipped that part could do it, but I would say it's harder than the mining facility with the Zealot on Tip of the Spear by a long shot and a prelude to more difficult levels. Weapons despawn every now and then, so you're going to run out of spare Plasma Pistols, among other things, quite quickly.


If the challenge is to complete the level on Mythic then I think there's nothing wrong with skipping battles. If you want to get the highest score, then you're in it for the number not the challenge. Or the challenge might be to get the highest score, I don't know.

It's definitely harder than the mining facility, which is why many people (myself included) chose to skip it. You beat it without going through the door, so props to you; you're better than us. Other people just want to beat the level in the fastest, most efficient way possible. I think it's worth it to skip those battles than for me to waste I-don't-know-how-many hours fighting them out. And yes, I'm using the word "waste"; it's a waste when there's a much easier way to get the same end result.


Posted by: jew man man

Posted by: Michael_Archer

Posted by: jew man man
Didn't have any Needle Rifle ammo for last two Invis Elites.


The level is overflowing with needle rifles. There's a crate in the comms room, there's a crate on either side of the hologram powerup in the hangar, crates in the corner of the hangar, a crate in the room where the two elites come out when that marine says "got plenty of arms and ammo." and to top it off, there's a crate in the bridge itself.

So I would call that MEGA fail, jew man man. LOL.


Oh and btw, there's two boxes in the Bridge. One is towards the back though.


So I guess you just added insult to your own injury. :D

[Edited on 10.16.2010 11:19 AM PDT]

  • 10.16.2010 11:19 AM PDT


Posted by: Michael_Archer
If the challenge is to complete the level on Mythic then I think there's nothing wrong with skipping battles. If you want to get the highest score, then you're in it for the number not the challenge. Or the challenge might be to get the highest score, I don't know.

It's definitely harder than the mining facility, which is why many people (myself included) chose to skip it. You beat it without going through the door, so props to you; you're better than us. Other people just want to beat the level in the fastest, most efficient way possible. I think it's worth it to skip those battles than for me to waste I-don't-know-how-many hours fighting them out. And yes, I'm using the word "waste"; it's a waste when there's a much easier way to get the same end result.


Again...it's not about a time or score. The challenge is finding a solution to overcome every - single - enemy I am presented with. I didn't just half-ass my way through a "No Plasma Pistol" Mythic run of Halo 3's Campaign.

When I say "solution" I mean a strategy. How to handle certain battles, be it weapons or approaches. It's not just for my gain, I'm trying to find strategies that can be repeated. You know...to play the damn game in the most difficult way possible.

Now it's not about strategies, it's about whether you can perform [insert glitch here] to bypass [insert encounter here]. It's hard for there to be room for an improved approach when the only "efficient" approaches are to not load the damn encounter/deload parts of an encounter.

Edit: Does anyone know where in the online stats you can check the par score for a mission? I'm pretty sure for the H3 and ODST campaign reports you could.

[Edited on 10.16.2010 11:51 AM PDT]

  • 10.16.2010 11:47 AM PDT

Recon

Finally I can update my progress. I just finished ONI Sword Base. Man I had some trouble with that. Doesn't bode well for the future but oh well.
3/9, TotS next.

  • 10.16.2010 1:25 PM PDT

It looks like there might just barely be enough enemies on PoA to get an Inconceivable (200 kills without dying).

  • 10.16.2010 1:36 PM PDT

Friendly until Fired upon

I'm crying because of how hard PoA will be on Mythic.

  • 10.16.2010 1:38 PM PDT


Posted by: ST54 JB
I'm crying because of how hard PoA will be on Mythic.


It's not that bad. Getting up to the landing pad is a routine for me, now.

  • 10.16.2010 1:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Vincent K

Edit: Does anyone know where in the online stats you can check the par score for a mission? I'm pretty sure for the H3 and ODST campaign reports you could.


I couldn't find it either. Why would you want to know them? I mean when you play on mythic your score is a lot bigger than the par.

  • 10.16.2010 2:11 PM PDT

Twenty-ninth Halo 3 Mythic Conqueror
Eleventh Halo 3: ODST Mythic Conqueror
Fifth Halo: Reach Mythic Conqueror


Posted by: Vincent K

Posted by: ST54 JB
I'm crying because of how hard PoA will be on Mythic.


It's not that bad. Getting up to the landing pad is a routine for me, now.


Getting to the bridge on LNOS is routine for me, but it's still a damn hard level. Make one tiny mistake, oops! You're dead. Well, to be fair, every level on Mythic is like that.


Posted by: Vincent K
Again...it's not about a time or score. The challenge is finding a solution to overcome every - single - enemy I am presented with. I didn't just half-ass my way through a "No Plasma Pistol" Mythic run of Halo 3's Campaign.

When I say "solution" I mean a strategy. How to handle certain battles, be it weapons or approaches. It's not just for my gain, I'm trying to find strategies that can be repeated. You know...to play the damn game in the most difficult way possible.

Now it's not about strategies, it's about whether you can perform [insert glitch here] to bypass [insert encounter here]. It's hard for there to be room for an improved approach when the only "efficient" approaches are to not load the damn encounter/deload parts of an encounter.

Edit: Does anyone know where in the online stats you can check the par score for a mission? I'm pretty sure for the H3 and ODST campaign reports you could.


Again, if you went through Halo 3 without a plasma pistol, (if you really need to hear it) you're better than us.

And I think you misunderstood me. When I said "fastest time possible", I didn't mean "speed run," I meant people want to find the path of least resistance. If you really want to brute-force your way through Halo: Reach with inefficient strategies and weapons (I'm sorry, I don't know what other word to use. Bypassing battles is shorter, works more consistently and you usually take less damage) then we applaud you. We also admire your patience and persistent attitude. But despite how much fun this game is, people don't want to play this game forever; even someone with a great amount of skill and intelligence will spend a long time trying to do this.

Most difficult way possible would be to not use weapons, armor abilities or grenades. When you say you did a "No plasma pistol" run, why was every other weapon exempt? I'm sure it would've been a lot harder if you didn't use the battle rifle.

So, if the increased stress and aggravation of doing the "hardest way possible" sounds fun to you, then knock yourself out. I'm sure we'd all like to see the videos.

  • 10.16.2010 2:20 PM PDT

Hello, Community!

Hopefully if you're reading this, it's because you're interesting in kicking your campaign experience up a notch by cranking up the Legendary with all skulls activated :-) Need advice? A guide? Maybe even a friendly community to cheer you on and help guide you through the process? Then give our Mythic thread a read, and Godspeed on your Mythic journey!

Best Regards,
The Tyrant

The Tyrant's take on "glitches".

If you know me, there's ONE glitch you know I don't approve of at all... Save & Quit. Why? Because it destroys the very heart of Mythic, the whole reason that it's even a real challenge at all. If it isn't from start to finish in one go, it ain't Mythic. That said...

Thus far, that's really the only glitch that makes total sense to deem "illegal". We've been using glitches since Halo 3 (trick shots anyone?) that greatly increase the player's advantage over the enemy. In real life (and I'm facepalming myself for saying that as we speak), Brutes wouldn't just stand there letting a Spartan peg them from afar with a slow-moving, brightly lit, plasma projectile. In short, it's a way we've managed to take advantage of the game's engine to make victory that much easier.

A similar arguement could be made for "The Ark" for the Chieftain glitch near the end founded by our own VK. Essentually, you've taken advantage of a game mechanic to make the final battle much easier.

The point in saying all this? Thus far, the rules of Mythic are rather clearly defined, but when we start diving into what tricks can and can't be used, we start further separating ourselves from the community as a whole. I think it's fair to say at this point that even with guides and glitches, most people are still too intimidated by Mythic to even try it without some sort of incentive. To further complicate the mode will only isolate ourselves more.

I see what you're saying, but per the rules we've had since Halo 3, de-loading a battle here and there (which is still a very rare thing to be able to accomplish in the campaign) technically isn't breaking the rules unlike Save & Quit. If it deloaded the entire mission (like Assault on the Control Room in Halo CE), it would be easier to call shenanigans, but a very small portion of the mission is diving a bit too deep into the gray area.

Much like the Misanthrope runs, we can safely say that going through the mission without using any sort of trickery definitely proves your level of skill and strategy and people who do so are definitely admired by the community, but to say that it HAS to be done that way takes away from the very essence that makes Halo... well... Halo.

/rant

  • 10.16.2010 4:39 PM PDT

Halo 3 (31st), ODST (14th) and Reach (4th) Mythic Conqueror. (Mythic is Solo, Legendary, All skulls on + scoring on and no deaths/saves).

Staff Writer and speedrun record holder at highspeedhalo.net

Ignorance is the true enemy of all things.

Rocking Bungie.net for over 8 years!


Posted by: Vincent K
Skips are fine, but I usually thinking of "skipping" as in running past/avoiding the enemies (risk is involved, is it not?). Clipping through a wall (or gate, in this case) so I don't have to play the most difficult part of the level isn't exactly what I think of as skipping.

As a speedrunner, I can say this issue has come up many times over the years. "But you're not even fighting the enemies! Why are you running past them? Thats not how you play!" etc. etc.

For standard runs, HSH's policy on the exploitation of any trick or glitch for the purpose of making a run safer/faster whatever has always been: "if its achieved entirely from within the game using an unmodified copy of the game on unmodified hardware; its fair game."

Its HSH against the game, and by extension, against the designers at Bungie. The more we can batter and beat it to a bloody pulp to extract extra seconds, the better. If we can't; well, either Bungie did a bloody good job, or are getting overly restrictive with the invisible barriers >:(

Notice that I said against the game. Not against the enemies. They are mere distractions and roadblocks along the path to the ultimate goal: reaching those end of level credits.

Of course for some, dropping from the bridge on AotCR, or clipping through the door on Silent Cartographer, or bumping into the ceiling of Keyes or PoA (halo 1), or skipping over the rooftops of Outskirts, or ghost riding in the hills around delta halo, felt a little bit too much like cheating.

For those situations, HSH created 'Full Path Halo', where massive level skips and deloads were no longer allowed.

However, there were still people that were of the opinion to effect of 'you're just running past them! You're -blam!-; you don't fight any of them!' etc etc.

But the objective of speedrunning was to get from A to B in as quickest time possible. Simply put: running past the enemies was quicker than fighting them in many cases.

Of course, with the arrival of campaign scoring in Halo 3, ODST and now Reach, there is the extra category of 'High Score' runs, which goes some way to satiate the desire for more 'kill all of them!' type runs.

With Mythic, the objective is even simpler: get from A to B. To do that, you choose the easiest way you can find, the path of least resistance. Especially when you're trying to create a guide (like tyrant) to help other people, or maybe you're not as good as some other people so you'll take any advantage over the game you can get, or maybe you have an ulterior motive (like me) to look for ways to do the levels quickly as well as just get through them. With these stances, especially when its your first time trying to do it (like Legendary, for the laymen among us) its nearly impossible to ignore these tricks/glitches that can make your goal significantly easier.

Sure, once this goal has been achieved (get from A to B), there are harder, even more insane challenges you can do it. e.g. do it in a faster time (speedrun), kill more enemies, don't use the major skips (full path), go for the highest score (High score!), complete all objectives (even more full path), do it without shooting (zero shot), do it without shooting or grenades (vidmaster: Classic), do it without killing (pacifist), do it with weapon X, vehicle Y, etc etc.

But not yet. Thats not our goal atm. Our goal is to simply get there first. If we can find ways to make that goal easier, we'll take them. And remember we can set the tougher challenge for ourself by not including it next time.

Even still, most levels still take a solid strategy, patience, and, crucially, the ability to execute the whole thing in one go.

Essentially the whole thing just was a giant dump on all the effort I had put in to my run.
Nothing is ever going to take away from your accomplishment. You've done Nightfall 'Full Path', I have not. In terms of killing enemies on nightfall: you're better, more hardcore, whatever term you want to use. In terms of doing the level quickly (i.e. not necessarily killing the enemies) I'm better (or, am currently deemed to be since I have a faster time :P)

I'd almost be for creating a secondary Reach Mythic list that has a few additions to the list of no-no's.
Sure, if you want start a 'full path mythic' completers list: I won't object. It might even be my next goal after Mythic. Your Nightfall run will already best mine several times over in 'High Score Mythic.'

HSH might even have a separate 'full path mythic' as well as 'full path' runs for the Normal and Legendary difficulties. There are a number of candidates to get 'Full Path' categories in Reach already...

Still though, there are gonna be people who say 'oh you're just being a -blam!- standing up there on top of the building shooting down at them' or 'you're just DMRing them like a wuss from WAAY far away' or 'If you were good you wouldn't need to use the allies as distractions, you'd do it all yourself' etc. etc etc.

Can't please everyone's definition of 'how the game is meant to be played.' Runs that kill everything, for example, are tedious to do, and unless they're really special; boring to watch. Gotta just pick what your target is, and do it.

--

In other news: I did the package. That makes me 6/9 :)

  • 10.16.2010 4:56 PM PDT

Indeed the "I've seen teh guide, ur just running past teh enemiez!" comments get irritating. I'm just thinking what they're going to be like after the Reach guide.

In other news, I thought of yet another alternative way of getting the Gauss Hog inside Sword Base other than grenades and vehicles as makeshift ramps...it's just not very efficient. I remembered seeing this in a clip from a Beta montage at the end for a lulzy clip, but the EMP effect from armor lock has a knockback which you can use to knock the Gauss hog over the barriers...it just isn't very easy to do.

On the note of spree medals, there is one level I can think of where the Unfrigginbelievable (kill 1000 enemies without dying) could be earned: New Alexandria. Infinite Banshees. I was wrong about Inconceivable for PoA. It's 500 enemies, and I had trouble thinking of a mere 40 more I could have killed on my nearly finished run to make it 206 kills.

Now I think I'm going to check out Tyrant's shortened version of the Package out of curiosity. I heard something mentioned about a Wraith that is ever so slightly interesting to me.

  • 10.16.2010 5:21 PM PDT
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The first person who beat the game slaso would get a price?

  • 10.16.2010 5:37 PM PDT

Member of team Master Theory.

17th Mythic Conqueror of Halo 3.
5th Mythic Conqueror of ODST.
If you would like to know more about Mythic difficulty please go to this thread. Thank you.

Please do not send me "recruitment messages" as I'm not interested in joining any groups currently.

I really need to watch Tyrant's Sword Base and Package runs to see what he does differently.
Ah well, it's too late for today so I'll get round to it tomorrow.

  • 10.16.2010 5:47 PM PDT

Hello, Community!

Hopefully if you're reading this, it's because you're interesting in kicking your campaign experience up a notch by cranking up the Legendary with all skulls activated :-) Need advice? A guide? Maybe even a friendly community to cheer you on and help guide you through the process? Then give our Mythic thread a read, and Godspeed on your Mythic journey!

Best Regards,
The Tyrant


Posted by: Vincent K
In other news, I thought of yet another alternative way of getting the Gauss Hog inside Sword Base other than grenades and vehicles as makeshift ramps...it's just not very efficient. I remembered seeing this in a clip from a Beta montage at the end for a lulzy clip, but the EMP effect from armor lock has a knockback which you can use to knock the Gauss hog over the barriers...it just isn't very easy to do.


But it IS easy just to shoot the corners off the barriers and drive right over. It's in my run if you're curious. No vehicle damage or weird manuevers necessary :-)

  • 10.16.2010 6:16 PM PDT

if ignorance is bliss then I must be the happiest person alive!
ACCF FC: 2707-7180-2126

If I gotta do it on solo, then **** No!!! I already got my 49 achievements legit.

  • 10.16.2010 6:18 PM PDT

I haven't really been making notes in hear about things I here the Elites and Brutes say, but I figure I'll just throw it out there for laughs. I have heard Brutes say one thing in English, although the pronunciation is a little weird, you can still make it out. You'll most likely hear this from a Hammer Chieftain, because Brutes only say this sometimes when they melee (or use a melee weapon): "Close quarters!"

I've heard Elites say a few things in English that make sense. "Found him!" is a good example, although they say it quickly. Sometimes when one Elite is irritated after losing track of an enemy, you might hear him says "Kick his ass" or "Whoop his ass". The sound proceeding it may be "I'm gonna".

  • 10.16.2010 6:45 PM PDT

Twenty-ninth Halo 3 Mythic Conqueror
Eleventh Halo 3: ODST Mythic Conqueror
Fifth Halo: Reach Mythic Conqueror


Posted by: Tyrant122312
The Tyrant's take on "glitches".

If you know me, there's ONE glitch you know I don't approve of at all... Save & Quit. Why? Because it destroys the very heart of Mythic, the whole reason that it's even a real challenge at all. If it isn't from start to finish in one go, it ain't Mythic.


Right. If you save and quit, it's just legendary with all skulls but Iron. You're circumventing Iron, which is the most devastating skull.

Posted by: Tyrant122312
A similar arguement could be made for "The Ark" for the Chieftain glitch near the end founded by our own VK. Essentually, you've taken advantage of a game mechanic to make the final battle much easier.


Huh. I did not know that. Thanks Vince, you made a lot of people's lives (including mine) a lot easier.

And the thing about Assault on the Control Room: I wouldn't call shenanigans on that either. It's built into the game, no external tools are being used. Do you guys remember Halo 2 multiplayer? There was one thing that arguably broke it: superbouncing. Do you want to know how many people Bungie banned for that? Zero. Even though it totally disrupted gameplay for a lot of people, Bungie never took action about it. The reason for this was because it was put in the game by Bungie. Yeah, it was inadvertent, but it was just as much of a part of the game as anything else.

My personal stance on cheating was that if you're modifying the game in anyway, it's cheating. Superbouncing was not modifying the game, therefore, it's not cheating.

Enough of that. Lets move on and be friends.

  • 10.16.2010 6:46 PM PDT

At the landing pad, but I'm half asleep...*yawns*
I may go to bed and keep my game paused. I hope my 360 can take it.

  • 10.16.2010 7:08 PM PDT

Proud member and Leader of Aberrant Designs

8th Mythic Conqueror of Reach and 7th Mythic Conqueror of ODST.

Doust thou wish to anger thine ROFLKNIEF?!?

Just conquered ONI: Sword Base. Thats leaves me with only 4 more missions. Unfortunately, they are the hardest (PoA, Package, Exodus, and LNoS).

I noticed something funny that happened a few times during my runs on Sword Base. It seems when there isnt a gunner for the Wraith and its targeting a marine/Kat, when that Ultra tries to hop in it gets splattered by the Wraith. It can happen if its targeting you, but it doesnt seem to happen as often since the Wraith doesnt move as much.

  • 10.16.2010 7:12 PM PDT

The hardest? Lol. Exodus is easy, but on there is a bit of a luck factor. It's like Reach's version of Cortana, in my opinion.

  • 10.16.2010 7:15 PM PDT

Proud member and Leader of Aberrant Designs

8th Mythic Conqueror of Reach and 7th Mythic Conqueror of ODST.

Doust thou wish to anger thine ROFLKNIEF?!?

Posted by: Vincent K
The hardest? Lol. Exodus is easy, but on there is a bit of a luck factor. It's like Reach's version of Cortana, in my opinion.


Well from all the complaining Ive heard about it, it made it sound like it was harder than any of the other missions Ive done.

[Edited on 10.16.2010 7:27 PM PDT]

  • 10.16.2010 7:21 PM PDT