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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

Signatures are for squares.

Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.

[Edited on 09.16.2010 9:03 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 9:02 PM PDT

It is very disappointing, given how enthralling and great the story is for The Fall of Reach and First Strike, not withstanding the obvious retcon issues. Even if they are re-making the novels to fix this, it will destroy a story that I very much preferred.

  • 09.16.2010 9:10 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: Hysterical Joker
It is very disappointing, given how enthralling and great the story is for The Fall of Reach and First Strike, not withstanding the obvious retcon issues. Even if they are re-making the novels to fix this, it will destroy a story that I very much preferred.


The re-write of Fall of Reach did not change ANYTHING. It merely added 40 pages of content to the back of the book(none of which fix these errors) and they changed the ships at Reach from 300, to 700+

  • 09.16.2010 9:15 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: Hysterical Joker
It is very disappointing, given how enthralling and great the story is for The Fall of Reach and First Strike, not withstanding the obvious retcon issues. Even if they are re-making the novels to fix this, it will destroy a story that I very much preferred.


The re-write of Fall of Reach did not change ANYTHING. It merely added 40 pages of content to the back of the book(none of which fix these errors) and they changed the ships at Reach from 300, to 700+

So the re-writes have already been released?

  • 09.16.2010 9:25 PM PDT

I wake up to find myself
After all these years
And where all the time has gone
Still seems so unclear

One of the Halo: Evolutions stories state that in every company of S-III, they pull some of them out right before primary deployment to be a part of "Headhunter" teams.
It's possible Kurt pulled more of them out for other things before Pegasi.

Source on site: Here. (Although, they say that they rarely get to pull S-III's right after training, in the book they say they do it pretty often. Probably due to Ackerson wanting more "special" Spartans on his own.)

Also, you do realize that the books are "optional" canon and are over-ridden by the game canon, right?

  • 09.16.2010 9:25 PM PDT

Headhunters aren't just pulled out. They have to survive two high risk operations before they even qualify, so there goes your theory.

And before you go stupid, Bungie has always stated TFoR was primary canon...But Oh wait, they don't give a ...anymore.

  • 09.16.2010 9:30 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Lord, did you really just call yourself the universe elite? I hope that was somewhat toungue in cheek. Not that if someone were to for some unforeseeable reason assemble a "universe elite" you wouldn't meet the criteria or anything (whatever the hell criteria for something as ridiculous sounding as that might be), but seriously.... Kinda makes it seem like you spent a lot of time building that pedestal to put yourself up on above the rest of the pleebs. Just sayin'.

[Edited on 09.16.2010 9:44 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 9:43 PM PDT

hi


Posted by: Ageless Durandal
Also, you do realize that the books are "optional" canon and are over-ridden by the game canon, right?


They're overwritten sure, but it should only be like that if its small things like changing a number or random fact. Not when it breaks the entire canon of halo and does something that should have changed the course of the war.

Also, OP, i completely agree with how disappointing this is.

[Edited on 09.16.2010 9:50 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 9:47 PM PDT

Mac OS X > PC Windows 7......wait, everything about a Mac > PC

Posted by: Ageless Durandal
Also, you do realize that the books are "optional" canon and are over-ridden by the game canon, right?

This is not true, it has been confirmed by Bungie before that the books were just as much canon as the games have ever been, and the reaffirmed by 343i at comic-con.

Oh and I'm not sure if this counts, but one small thing to add to your list is on top of the PoA being on Reach in Halo: Reach is that John-117 is shown in cryosleep in the bay of the ship. Not only does this not make sense for him to be in cryosleep before the ship has even left, since in tFoR he is only put in cryosleep before they make the jump to slip-space; but also because why in the world would his cryotube be in the docking bay? That doesn't even make sense just using common sense, and thats not even where we start playing as Chief in CE.

And yes I realize this was meant more to be an Easter Egg, but hey its in the game, and its not as if its in background of gameplay way off in the distance or anything. All in all I think Reach just has to be considered non-canon. There are just way to many discrepancies for it to possibly make it all work out. Entertainment wise I very much enjoyed Reach, but canon wise it was very disappointing.

  • 09.16.2010 9:49 PM PDT

01000001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100010 01100001 01110011 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101100 01101111 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110101 01110011

Not so sure on the Carter, Emile, and Jun thing. The communique between CPOMZ and 051 make insinuations that SIII are being stolen out of the main force tasked with the high-risk ops uber-covertly, both before them and picking amongst the rare survivors. They make Kat seem like a likely candidate as a high-risk OP survivor.

  • 09.16.2010 9:50 PM PDT

"You know our motto: We Deliver."

there where so many glaring canon mistakes in the game...

  • 09.16.2010 9:55 PM PDT


Posted by: Ageless Durandal
One of the Halo: Evolutions stories state that in every company of S-III, they pull some of them out right before primary deployment to be a part of "Headhunter" teams.
It's possible Kurt pulled more of them out for other things before Pegasi.

Source on site: Here. (Although, they say that they rarely get to pull S-III's right after training, in the book they say they do it pretty often. Probably due to Ackerson wanting more "special" Spartans on his own.)

Also, you do realize that the books are "optional" canon and are over-ridden by the game canon, right?

The books are canon, but as Bungie has said, the games do indeed take precedence over the books when there are contradictions. I believe that this upsets most people(myself included) because it utterly destroys any work that has been done figuring out the secrets in the novels, as well as completely destroys a story that is beloved by many.

  • 09.16.2010 10:08 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=personn el&cid=24040

check it out

got beat to it

[Edited on 09.16.2010 10:14 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 10:13 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

I think the largest discrepancy in Halo:Reach is figuring out how the events on Reach detailed in The Fall of Reach occurred during the Halo:Reach timeline. While The Fall of Reach itself is pretty much null, Nylund tried to update the information by adding events of significance from the novel and placing it here and there in Halsey's journal from the Entry of the 23rd of July to August 30th. All in all is just seemed...off as to how it managed to unfold given the context of the situation.

-John's surgery/subsequent MJOLNIR field test with Cortana on the 29th

-The briefing of Spartan II's for Operation:Red Flag on the 27th I think it was

-Given Halsey's involvement with the above mentioned events makes Halsey's appearance under Sword Base on the 30th very strange and thus an inconsistency in itself considering the base was taken on the 14th near the end of Long Night of Solace with Halsey listed as one of the many killed. So how did she operate outside of Sword Base and how did she get back right after John's exercise?

[Edited on 09.16.2010 10:16 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 10:14 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

you're naut cookin'

Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.


I think its also worth mentioning that the Journal, released with the game, specifies that pre-pubescent candidates are going to be the best option in regards to the efficiency of the augmentations.
Understandably, they are SPARTAN IIIs, but I believe that the same would hold (and did hold) for that program.
An 11 year old has at the most, 1 year worth of effective training before the augmentations must happen, which obviously is no where near enough time for a thorough indoctrination process.

EDIT: I also think its worth asking 'how did the Covenant find Reach?'. Originally it was the Iroquois, piloted by Capt. Keyes than inadvertantly lead the Covenant to the planet. But, in this new Reach game, we see the Covenant on Reach at the same time as the Iroquois just getting there. Covenant slipspace tech is good, but its not that good.

Oh and apparently small craft such as Seraphs and Banshees can exit slipspace without being crushed and destroyed now days. And Phantoms that (I'm assuming hard here) don't have any reinforcement.

ps: why'd i get a thanks? i am flattered, but unsure why.

[Edited on 09.16.2010 11:05 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 10:15 PM PDT

It's simply just very saddening at the utter disregard to prior canon. I understand that Bungie wanted to tell Noble's story because it's easier to get into than the story of the characters if TFoR, but to throw it out the window isn't fair to the diehard fans who delight in piecing together the strands between all the different canon.

  • 09.16.2010 10:19 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: kippa
Oh and apparently small craft such as Seraphs and Banshees can exit slipspace without being crushed and destroyed now days. And Phantoms that (I'm assuming hard here) don't have any reinforcement.

ps: why'd i get a thanks? i am flattered, but unsure why.
In Contact Harvest, I'm quite sure Dabab's escape pod has a slipspace drive - he references only being able to make one more 'jump' in it, as opposed to 'trip'.
It MUST have a slipspace drive, page 190 says how the "pod exited its jump smack bang in the middle of a debris field."
I used to agree that small craft couldn't have slipspace drives, but this proves otherwise. As such, while banshees and seraphs could be fitted with SS drives, we still don't know how they could survive a jump. They wouldn't be crushed, IMO kippa - slipspace-normal transitions involve the craft exiting a reduced-volume space and entering a normal volume space. This would involve massive torsion and stresses on the surfaces of the craft - it also requires a massive deceleration from several lightyears per day to velocities of a few thousand kilometres per hour. This would add directional stresses front-to-rear in addition to entire-hull stresses. The craft are more likely to be shorn in half front-to-back upon exit.

A good one to add, Caboose - Jorge's involvement in Noble Team. He's an S-II that was not present for Halsey's briefing. Using the TFOR SPARTAN casualties, there are 3 too distant, 3 KIA and one WIA. Jorge can be neither of them, as all 3 KIA and WIA are accounted for.
There is also the fact that Halsey refuses to talk to Jorge when they meet under SWORD. Can anyone theorise on that? I've places to be unfortunately :(

[Edited on 09.16.2010 11:41 PM PDT]

  • 09.16.2010 11:27 PM PDT

You can't spell 'Slaughter' without 'Laughter'.

I agree. It is sad. There's no good reason they couldn't have just kept everything consistent.

And people who say "The games are canon and can overwrite the other stuff" are missing the point. Why not just have it all fit? It wouldn't have been that difficult.

  • 09.16.2010 11:27 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

you're naut cookin'

I can't understand that escape pod having a Slipspace drive. The power required to actually juice the thing would cause the escape pod to be huge, and totally unlike an escape pod, rather just a really small Frigate. It would also have to have the hell reinforced out of it.

As for the actual stresses of leaving slipspace, I don't believe that it has anything to do with deacceleration. The ship isn't actually going any faster than it normally does, its just travelling through folded space. What could cause the stresses is simply transitioning from 11+- dimensional space to our regular 3 dimensional space, or could be the transition of leaving the electromagnetic bubble that ships wrap themselves in during a slipspace voyage.

Also, in the original post of mine I was suggesting that the Banshees, Seraphs and Phantoms didn't have slipspace drives onboard, but that they were released from Frigates/Cruisers/Whatevers in Slipspace and they transitioned once they left the electromagnetic bubble their 'home ship' was generating. Similar to Blue Team leaving Ascendent Justice/Gettysburg to convene with the Unyeilding Hierophant in their Spirit dropship.

That was reinforced a huge amount, but was basically falling apart after re-entry.
Having played the Reach campaign, I would deem that neither the Banshees nor the Seraphs would have survived (simply because they didn't looked reinforce, or large enough to sport their own slipspace drive, or electromagnetic 'bubble' generator.
The Phantoms could have survived, but I doubt the Covenant's abilities.

Cool. God I'm such a nerd to know all this stuff.

  • 09.17.2010 1:02 AM PDT

E-mail; save a stamp fire a mailman...

I just got done reading the Dr. Halsey journal and it dose give some explanation on how everything in the book is correct and everything in the game happened as well.

For example Halsey thinks that the Spartans she ran across are another group of spartan II's. She believes that it is a competing program that paralleled her results.

  • 09.17.2010 2:26 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

you're naut cookin'

Oh, also, to anyone that hasn't seen this, its very very interesting.

Courtesy of anton1792.

  • 09.17.2010 2:40 AM PDT
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1: phantoms use spotlights- even though they have so much high tech they should see everything

2: the covenant tech not being 5969490000x more powerfull due to possesing forerunner tech for thousands of years

3: that earth seems to be entirely american

4: humans speaking different languages

5: humans should have some sort of walhack type thing

6: that stealth is part of the game when there should be technologie preventing this

7: that weaponry constantly changes even though it should have been perfected by both sides centurys ago

  • 09.17.2010 3:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: John Cage4
I agree. It is sad. There's no good reason they couldn't have just kept everything consistent.

And people who say "The games are canon and can overwrite the other stuff" are missing the point. Why not just have it all fit? It wouldn't have been that difficult.


Because we don't want to play a retelling story of tFoR and First Strike.

  • 09.17.2010 4:04 AM PDT

Read the journal
That was a scouting force that invaded on July 24, oni kept it quiet, thats why everything we know is wrong.

Noble Team was pulled out off alpha company before they all died.

Again, oni kept it quiet Halsey comments on this many times, calling it strange etc.

Read the journal, it fixes a few things, I have no answer to the others.

[Edited on 09.17.2010 4:10 AM PDT]

  • 09.17.2010 4:10 AM PDT