Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-


Posted by: immadchill

It's not that I didn't get what I wanted. If you really read all of this thread you'd know I've fought tooth and nail to defend Reach, I'm just trying to make sense of it all


Yeah the way I phrased it didn't sound as good as in my head, I was generalizing both sides, they each made great points but I just feel that at this point we're not really helping each other understand anything anymore and instead the threads are being driven by trolls provoking us into action.(again doesn't apply to all of us)

I personally think the story is great, I do think Bungie derped up and didn't flush out the potential the story had. They were killed by their policies, which while it had "our?" best interest at heart, caused the trouble we see before us. Bungie has a fear of long cutscenes, Reach needed them bad. They wanted to keep the player in the action, they gave up a chance to advance the story. They wanted to focus on character development, which while Reach had some it lacked impact and drive because of the above. Hell the events that happen in Reach would've been epic had they kept some of the old levels and even characters in. They had a good idea with taking from ODST and the past games but they got suck in it...but for that I don't blame them. I'm not mad at all, they are a great company with a great fanbase, but look at what we've become. We've been growing divided time and time again at each issue and the company has to keep up, it's not one sides fault it's all of ours. Oh well, I'm happy with the game and even happier because it gave me my idea to rewrite the game with my own ideas...It's fun yah know?

[Edited on 06.23.2011 3:06 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2011 3:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

there is also the fact that Dr.Halsey in the books had no idea that colonel Ackerson was training the spartan III's but yet in halo reach she seems to know about the program and a few of the members (aka noble team).this is also a large mistake that bungie seemingly overlooked.

  • 06.23.2011 3:20 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: sgt mayhem13
there is also the fact that Dr.Halsey in the books had no idea that colonel Ackerson was training the spartan III's but yet in halo reach she seems to know about the program and a few of the members (aka noble team).this is also a large mistake that bungie seemingly overlooked.


She didn't knew who they were, she just knew that they were not her Spartans (with the exception of Jorge) This made her consider the possibility that ONI was training new Spartans without her knowledge (Black Team for example).

  • 06.23.2011 3:39 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: sgt mayhem13
there is also the fact that Dr.Halsey in the books had no idea that colonel Ackerson was training the spartan III's but yet in halo reach she seems to know about the program and a few of the members (aka noble team).this is also a large mistake that bungie seemingly overlooked.


That isn't an issue...

  • 06.23.2011 4:30 PM PDT


Posted by: sgt mayhem13
there is also the fact that Dr.Halsey in the books had no idea that colonel Ackerson was training the spartan III's but yet in halo reach she seems to know about the program and a few of the members (aka noble team).this is also a large mistake that bungie seemingly overlooked.


Read Halsey's journal.

  • 06.23.2011 4:36 PM PDT

Woah...that just happened...again !


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Xero Link

Posted by: fxnavarro
I won't usually suggest believing everything on Halopedia but I checked out the Fall of Reach page and they set up a pretty nice timeline. Everything makes sense and they've taken a pretty good guess as to what happened to the Pillar of Autumn.
Its worth a look.


Link?


godda** why are people this lazy?

don't give him a link, he can go to halopedia and type in TFoR and see it himself.


Its not that I'm "Lazy" I just want to see this timeline. I'm to understand that if we are arguing on "THIS" forum I shouldn't need to look elsewhere for facts brought to the table. They should be placed forward in the post !

  • 06.23.2011 4:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

you could simply go to halopedian, go to then FoR section and a timeline will be at the bottom of the page.

this can be done within 40 seconds.

[Edited on 06.23.2011 5:22 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2011 5:22 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
I personally think the story is great, I do think Bungie derped up and didn't flush out the potential the story had. They were killed by their policies, which while it had "our?" best interest at heart, caused the trouble we see before us. Bungie has a fear of long cutscenes, Reach needed them bad. They wanted to keep the player in the action, they gave up a chance to advance the story. They wanted to focus on character development, which while Reach had some it lacked impact and drive because of the above. Hell the events that happen in Reach would've been epic had they kept some of the old levels and even characters in. They had a good idea with taking from ODST and the past games but they got suck in it...but for that I don't blame them. I'm not mad at all, they are a great company with a great fanbase, but look at what we've become. We've been growing divided time and time again at each issue and the company has to keep up, it's not one sides fault it's all of ours. Oh well, I'm happy with the game and even happier because it gave me my idea to rewrite the game with my own ideas...It's fun yah know?


This is something I agree with. Nicely put. A cookie for you. (::)

And agreed. Rewriting and...adding on, is extremely fun. Makes me want to pick up what I started again. I'm just terribly lazy atm. XD

  • 06.23.2011 5:31 PM PDT

The Forumers built Halo to destroy all life, so the Flood would not consume our forums.


Posted by: manwith

Posted by: John Cage4
I agree. It is sad. There's no good reason they couldn't have just kept everything consistent.

And people who say "The games are canon and can overwrite the other stuff" are missing the point. Why not just have it all fit? It wouldn't have been that difficult.


Because we don't want to play a retelling story of tFoR and First Strike.


I would.

  • 06.23.2011 9:03 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan IJS

Posted by: OrderedComa
I think that actually only applies to new weapons/vehicles/tech belonging to the UNSC not the Covenant.


Either way it's cheap and just plain lazy for story, and only leaves more plot holes. If Bungie is actually on record for saying that, then I have lost faith.


Why would you think that? O_o
It'd make a whole lot of sense for Reach to have a whole mess of prototype weaponry or weapons that didn't see a wide range of use. And just because Chief did not have access to any of the vehicles/equipment in Reach does not mean that they're new weapons, that just means they weren't widely fielded or Chief did not encounter them. Like for instance the BR, that's been around since 2525 but the UNSC had trouble fielding it everywhere because of the war.

  • 06.24.2011 10:36 AM PDT

I am all our makers once held dear: [Alexandria before the Fire].

((Farewell Halo 2! You will not be forgotten! Farewell!))


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Spartan IJS

Posted by: OrderedComa
I think that actually only applies to new weapons/vehicles/tech belonging to the UNSC not the Covenant.


Either way it's cheap and just plain lazy for story, and only leaves more plot holes. If Bungie is actually on record for saying that, then I have lost faith.


Why would you think that? O_o
It'd make a whole lot of sense for Reach to have a whole mess of prototype weaponry or weapons that didn't see a wide range of use. And just because Chief did not have access to any of the vehicles/equipment in Reach does not mean that they're new weapons, that just means they weren't widely fielded or Chief did not encounter them. Like for instance the BR, that's been around since 2525 but the UNSC had trouble fielding it everywhere because of the war.


I would rather they did not worry about why most weapons and equipment are in some games but not in others. Think about how large and varied our arsenals are today IRL. As an example, let's look at just one game, let's say Halo: CE; there's obviously no way the UNSC's arsenal is limited to one type of assault, one type of pistol, one type of sniper rifle, one type of rocket launcher, one jeep, and one tank, or that that is all the Autumn has in its inventory.

Ultimately, I feel that Bungie should be free to add whatever weapons, equipment, vehicles, etc. they wish and not feel the need to explain where they came from, so long as it doesn't break the limits they have set for a certain faction established over several games and books. Also that it doesn't create holes within the overarching plot (see my earlier post here for examples of plot holes caused by tech).
Their explanations for weapons, equipment, and other tech in the past have been painful and contrived to say the least. Taking your BR example. I find that extremely hard to believe since the weapon in question isn't exactly breaking new ground in the field of technology, not even as described in the books. There's nothing really special about it, it's just a standard issue rifle similar to stuff we have today; there's nothing about the BR that we haven't already done with our own rifles (or will in the next few years).

Ever heard of Occam's Razor? I think it kind of applies here.
If Bungie really felt the need to say anything on the subject I would prefer they say, "The BR55 was always there. We, the creators simply didn't conceive of it at the time of [previous game installment]." Otherwise, they shouldn't address such things at all.
I would find that much more believable than trying to explain it as a distribution problem; it's really contrived.

  • 06.24.2011 1:41 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

first off we do not need 20 assault rifles that all do the exact same thing same for every other weapon.

The Earth government (pre-UNSC) was focused on colonizing not making new weapons for wars they aren't fighting.

  • 06.24.2011 5:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Cortana was created on Reach as the planet fell. The age of Cortana is continually stated as 7 years but when the fuel gauge runs empty at the end of Halo 3, shes had just struck 2, if not 1 and a half years old. She is stated to be dieing because of the maddening amount of Forurunner, Covenant, Flood and Human knowledge she possesses. But for Halo 4, she is back to nip that on the backside as well.

Sources: Stated as 7 in Halo Legends and most other relevant data and post-Reach, known to be almost 2 years old.

From qordii :)

  • 06.24.2011 6:11 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: qordii
Cortana was created on Reach as the planet fell. The age of Cortana is continually stated as 7 years but when the fuel gauge runs empty at the end of Halo 3, shes had just struck 2, if not 1 and a half years old. She is stated to be dieing because of the maddening amount of Forurunner, Covenant, Flood and Human knowledge she possesses. But for Halo 4, she is back to nip that on the backside as well.

Sources: Stated as 7 in Halo Legends and most other relevant data and post-Reach, known to be almost 2 years old.

From qordii :)

Its hard to believe that the ship floated to another celestial body (while on the furthest edges of our galaxy) in under a year. It did not have significant momentum to do so unless the Ark was orbiting a star and was already in a sytstem (which makes you wonder what a shield world was even doing there if that is the case). As such Cortana being alive at that time makes little sense.

What would be far more interesting and IMO desperate could be two alternatives:

1) Master chief awakens due to a subroutine written by Cortana which notifies him of her death, thus leading you into the shield world alone.

2) You awaken to find that Cortana is nowhere to be found and discover you have already been taken in by the shield world. You search for Cortana and discover the history of the human race (and information on the Precursors) and also find that Cortana has transferred herself to the sphere's systems to sustain herself until you were awake.

While not the most detailed or dramatic explanations these ideas would make more sense and hold the mystery and intrique that Halo, in my opinion, has lacked for some time (Halo CE did a great job, Halo 2 destroyed it and Halo 3 did an okay job with the terminals).

  • 06.24.2011 6:36 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: qordii
Cortana was created on Reach as the planet fell. The age of Cortana is continually stated as 7 years but when the fuel gauge runs empty at the end of Halo 3, shes had just struck 2, if not 1 and a half years old. She is stated to be dieing because of the maddening amount of Forurunner, Covenant, Flood and Human knowledge she possesses. But for Halo 4, she is back to nip that on the backside as well.

Sources: Stated as 7 in Halo Legends and most other relevant data and post-Reach, known to be almost 2 years old.

From qordii :)


um cortana was created in 2549 (yes i did just check halopedia. and she doesn't have info on the flood

  • 06.24.2011 6:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: qordii
Cortana was created on Reach as the planet fell. The age of Cortana is continually stated as 7 years but when the fuel gauge runs empty at the end of Halo 3, shes had just struck 2, if not 1 and a half years old. She is stated to be dieing because of the maddening amount of Forurunner, Covenant, Flood and Human knowledge she possesses. But for Halo 4, she is back to nip that on the backside as well.

Sources: Stated as 7 in Halo Legends and most other relevant data and post-Reach, known to be almost 2 years old.

From qordii :)

Its hard to believe that the ship floated to another celestial body (while on the furthest edges of our galaxy) in under a year. It did not have significant momentum to do so unless the Ark was orbiting a star and was already in a sytstem (which makes you wonder what a shield world was even doing there if that is the case). As such Cortana being alive at that time makes little sense.



The time gap from halo 3 to halo 4 has been roughly estimated around 5 years based of legends.

They didn't fully drift there, MB would have sent them there directly but the portal collapsed thus they had to drift.

  • 06.24.2011 6:43 PM PDT

Cortana's rampancy isn't that big of an issue.

Yes, we're explicitly told that once an AI reaches their 7th year, rampancy is likely to occur.

However, while rampancy is more likely to incur negative effects and consequences for an AI, it is not the only outcome.

The main reason why an AI dies(figuratively) is that it overthinks and consumes so much knowledge and experiences that its capacity for storage and network/pathways for its programs become so inter-webbed that it becomes a mangled construct incapable of storing and "thinking/reasoning" any further. Any attempts to do so will overburden it, hence they become rampant.

But there's a catch, an AI's lifespan is also dependent on its operating source. For instance, a smart-AI will thrive on UNSC cruiser's grid/system compared to smart-AI in a Spartan's suit, because the warship is more likely to have better storage, power, functions, programs suited for an AI that otherwise is limited if it is placed in Master Chief's suit or any less advanced system.

Thirdly, while rampancy is a scary thing, smart-AIs like Cortana is capable of meta-rampancy. If you've played Marathan, one their themes is that an AI is capable of "stabilizing" itself, that it somehow managed to fix its neural pathways.

For Halo 4, that's what I attempt to invision, a Cortana in meta-rampancy stage. And if you noticed in Legends, she magically leaves her terminal and then walks to MC's cryopod and then physically wipes the frost on the pod's window. That's probably the animator's fault, but the intention is clear with that scene, that Cortana has done something unusual.

  • 06.24.2011 8:39 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: grey101
The time gap from halo 3 to halo 4 has been roughly estimated around 5 years based of legends.

They didn't fully drift there, MB would have sent them there directly but the portal collapsed thus they had to drift.

Still, the nearest star to Sol is 4.3 light years away. If it only took them 5 years to float to another system they'd have to be going near the speed of light.

  • 06.24.2011 10:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

my gt is Godzillla....i just didnt link it properly

halo reach just kind of felt like bungie turning its back on halo, i look at ODST as the last true halo game

  • 06.24.2011 10:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: grey101
The time gap from halo 3 to halo 4 has been roughly estimated around 5 years based of legends.

They didn't fully drift there, MB would have sent them there directly but the portal collapsed thus they had to drift.

Still, the nearest star to Sol is 4.3 light years away. If it only took them 5 years to float to another system they'd have to be going near the speed of light.


unless they were pretty damn close to star with, such as already in the system but not near the planet.

  • 06.25.2011 7:16 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: grey101
unless they were pretty damn close to star with, such as already in the system but not near the planet.

True but this assumes there was a shield world in the same star system as the Ark, which makes no real sense since the Ark was essentially that and seeing as it was in a system that was so remote (possibly even entirely separate from our galaxy) it really wouldn't need a shield world like Onyx.

Then again, the Forerunner planet could very well be another Dyson Sphere.

  • 06.25.2011 9:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: grey101
unless they were pretty damn close to star with, such as already in the system but not near the planet.

True but this assumes there was a shield world in the same star system as the Ark, which makes no real sense since the Ark was essentially that and seeing as it was in a system that was so remote (possibly even entirely separate from our galaxy) it really wouldn't need a shield world like Onyx.

Then again, the Forerunner planet could very well be another Dyson Sphere.


i do not understand the logic of people thinking this is outside the galaxy like the ark (which it isn't) when Thel ended up at earth.

Chief could have been sent to any location in the galaxy but the portal was cut short. so instead of ending directly at the planet he just arrived in the system and drifted for 5 years.

which is not outside of reality whatsoever.

  • 06.25.2011 10:04 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: grey101
i do not understand the logic of people thinking this is outside the galaxy like the ark (which it isn't) when Thel ended up at earth.

1. It was safe from the blast radius of the Halo array, which means it was somewhere they could not reach. Seeing as they were meant to destroy all life in the galaxy, putting the Ark outside that would make sense.

2. You are looking down on a galaxy when you are on the Ark in Halo 3, which means you are more than likely not inside it. Especially if you can see the entirety of it on a single side of the planet.

Posted by: grey101
Chief could have been sent to any location in the galaxy but the portal was cut short. so instead of ending directly at the planet he just arrived in the system and drifted for 5 years.

which is not outside of reality whatsoever.

I'm not sure how you could travel a little bit of distance if you never entered slipspace to begin with. You don't enter the portal you don't go anywhere. The only other thing the planet could be is a remnant of the Ark's planetary core.

  • 06.25.2011 11:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: grey101
i do not understand the logic of people thinking this is outside the galaxy like the ark (which it isn't) when Thel ended up at earth.

1. It was safe from the blast radius of the Halo array, which means it was somewhere they could not reach. Seeing as they were meant to destroy all life in the galaxy, putting the Ark outside that would make sense.

2. You are looking down on a galaxy when you are on the Ark in Halo 3, which means you are more than likely not inside it. Especially if you can see the entirety of it on a single side of the planet.

Posted by: grey101
Chief could have been sent to any location in the galaxy but the portal was cut short. so instead of ending directly at the planet he just arrived in the system and drifted for 5 years.

which is not outside of reality whatsoever.

I'm not sure how you could travel a little bit of distance if you never entered slipspace to begin with. You don't enter the portal you don't go anywhere. The only other thing the planet could be is a remnant of the Ark's planetary core.


I am confused by all reason.

1. single halo does not wipe out the galaxy, the explosion at the end of halo was a destructive fire by an incomplete halo; not to mention since the ark is outside of the galaxy even if it still had it's full range it wouldn't affect the milky way.

2.I have been saying this hence confusion.


3. you did enter the portal but it collapsed while you were inside, cortana states this.

The core and the planet look nothing alike, not to mention the blue sun.

  • 06.25.2011 11:47 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien


Posted by: grey101
I am confused by all reason.

1. single halo does not wipe out the galaxy, the explosion at the end of halo was a destructive fire by an incomplete halo; not to mention since the ark is outside of the galaxy even if it still had it's full range it wouldn't affect the milky way.

2.I have been saying this hence confusion.


3. you did enter the portal but it collapsed while you were inside, cortana states this.

The core and the planet look nothing alike, not to mention the blue sun.

1. The Halo array includes all the Halo's. I'm not talking about the one that activated on the Ark, i'm talking about the fact that the best place to put the Ark is outside the Halo's range and seeing as their range is "all life in the galaxy" we can assume that means the entire galaxy and therefore the Ark would be in the most safe place: outside the galaxy.

2. What?

3. The front half of the ship entered the portal, the half of the ship Cortana and Chief were not on. This is why in the Halo 3 legendary ending (funny enough the Halo 3 legendary ending and the Halo 4 trailer have two entirely different ships) you will see the portion of the ship shown is the tail end of it, the one portion that never made it through the portal.

  • 06.25.2011 12:33 PM PDT