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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

" John-117: "What happened?"

Cortana: "I'm not sure. When Halo fired, it shook itself to pieces. Did a number on the Ark. The Portal couldn't sustain itself. We made it through just as it collapsed."

The Chief reaches the end of the hallway, which opens up into empty space. The Forward Unto Dawn is revealed to be sheared in half, floating in a cloud of its own debris, still red-hot from the sudden Slipspace slowdown.

Cortana: "Well... some of us made it."

The Dawn's remaining half continues to drift aimlessly in unknown space. "

  • 06.25.2011 12:43 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: qordii
Cortana was created on Reach as the planet fell. The age of Cortana is continually stated as 7 years but when the fuel gauge runs empty at the end of Halo 3, shes had just struck 2, if not 1 and a half years old. She is stated to be dieing because of the maddening amount of Forurunner, Covenant, Flood and Human knowledge she possesses. But for Halo 4, she is back to nip that on the backside as well.

Sources: Stated as 7 in Halo Legends and most other relevant data and post-Reach, known to be almost 2 years old.

From qordii :)

Its hard to believe that the ship floated to another celestial body (while on the furthest edges of our galaxy) in under a year. It did not have significant momentum to do so unless the Ark was orbiting a star and was already in a sytstem (which makes you wonder what a shield world was even doing there if that is the case). As such Cortana being alive at that time makes little sense.

What would be far more interesting and IMO desperate could be two alternatives:

1) Master chief awakens due to a subroutine written by Cortana which notifies him of her death, thus leading you into the shield world alone.

2) You awaken to find that Cortana is nowhere to be found and discover you have already been taken in by the shield world. You search for Cortana and discover the history of the human race (and information on the Precursors) and also find that Cortana has transferred herself to the sphere's systems to sustain herself until you were awake.

While not the most detailed or dramatic explanations these ideas would make more sense and hold the mystery and intrique that Halo, in my opinion, has lacked for some time (Halo CE did a great job, Halo 2 destroyed it and Halo 3 did an okay job with the terminals).


I was under the impression that the FoD made it completely into the Portal and the back end was cut off as they were coming out at Earth >_>

What I'm saying is that the aft end of the Dawn was still in Slipspace and then taken who knows where when the Portal collapsed in on itself and was not left at the Ark. If they were still meant to be in the same system as the Ark or near it I think Halo 3's ending would have either said so or shown so.

Meh, I'm not really a fan of those ideas, the second one sounds much better and is the better option of what you listed. The first would just be a major disappointment and I think would piss a lot of fans off. Opening the game and just having Cortana be dead would be a little too callous to the people who've been here since the beginning and have a much larger interest vested in all the characters, and it just wouldn't be a fitting death for a major character. If Cortana or Chief were even killed off I'm sure 343i would have them die in a meaningful and more emotional way than just finding them dead or finding out they died.

  • 06.25.2011 1:29 PM PDT

Dont be shy...
Im sorry for my coup changes but Im new at this.

Now I see it different.

  • 06.25.2011 2:00 PM PDT

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
So I solved the broken canon, wanna know how?
Are you a wizard?

  • 06.25.2011 10:27 PM PDT

I find that the corvette itself isn't canonical. From what weve seen of the Corvette we can say that it doesn't have shields. In TFoR it states that a ship smaller than a Frigate had shields, why wouldn't a Corvette have shields? Not only that but it's bridge is at the head of the ship like a human ship, not at the heart of the ship like all other covie ships.

  • 06.26.2011 11:42 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

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Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: immadchill
I find that the corvette itself isn't canonical. From what weve seen of the Corvette we can say that it doesn't have shields. In TFoR it states that a ship smaller than a Frigate had shields, why wouldn't a Corvette have shields? Not only that but it's bridge is at the head of the ship like a human ship, not at the heart of the ship like all other covie ships.


The way we've seen Corvettes in Reach it likely doesn't have shields because it isn't an independent ship meant for actual ship to ship combat. Its anti ship weaponry, or lack thereof, and rather relatively limited operational time suggests this. Instead it's essentially an oversized gunboat detached from the Supercarrier meant to deploy and provide firing support for its troops.

  • 06.26.2011 3:00 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: immadchill
I find that the corvette itself isn't canonical. From what weve seen of the Corvette we can say that it doesn't have shields. In TFoR it states that a ship smaller than a Frigate had shields, why wouldn't a Corvette have shields? Not only that but it's bridge is at the head of the ship like a human ship, not at the heart of the ship like all other covie ships.


The way we've seen Corvettes in Reach it likely doesn't have shields because it isn't an independent ship meant for actual ship to ship combat. Its anti ship weaponry, or lack thereof, and rather relatively limited operational time suggests this. Instead it's essentially an oversized gunboat detached from the Supercarrier meant to deploy and provide firing support for its troops.


So essentially a glorified troop transport :P

Though unlike Phantoms/Spirits it's meant to stick around and provide local fire support and the like against whatever it's deployed against. Your solution sounds rather spot on Slasher.

  • 06.26.2011 3:24 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: immadchill
I find that the corvette itself isn't canonical. From what weve seen of the Corvette we can say that it doesn't have shields. In TFoR it states that a ship smaller than a Frigate had shields, why wouldn't a Corvette have shields? Not only that but it's bridge is at the head of the ship like a human ship, not at the heart of the ship like all other covie ships.


The way we've seen Corvettes in Reach it likely doesn't have shields because it isn't an independent ship meant for actual ship to ship combat. Its anti ship weaponry, or lack thereof, and rather relatively limited operational time suggests this. Instead it's essentially an oversized gunboat detached from the Supercarrier meant to deploy and provide firing support for its troops.


very nice explanation, Thank you


EDIT: this makes a lot of sense, so when the supercarrier jumped it brought a lot of corvettes (seeing as they aren't really ships) so many, that it probably wasn't in direct contact with them at all times. So when you jammed up the Corvette and sent it back to the LNoS it wasn't really paying attention to what was going on around the corvette seeing how it was more for just limited support.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 3:37 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 3:34 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
So I solved the broken canon, wanna know how?

ONI propaganda theory?

  • 06.27.2011 3:13 PM PDT


Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
So I solved the broken canon, wanna know how?

ONI propaganda theory?


Which doesn't even hold water, it's an interesting "what if" but it is not true, and if 343i actually did decide to do that then they would be terribly lazy and that would be quite the cop out. Now the way the letter included in the Legendary edition of the game is worded gives 343i some wiggle room with how they want to organize the way the game and the book link up, but both the game and the book are equally canon, both tell part of one whole: The Battle of Reach.

  • 06.27.2011 5:07 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
but both the game and the book are equally canon, both tell part of one whole: The Battle of Reach.
That's not possible, there are too many contradictions for both stories to be considered canon.

I wouldn't mind if Halo: Reach was all ONI propaganda. Who cares if it feels like lazy writing? At least it fixes the whole thing.

  • 06.27.2011 5:45 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
So I solved the broken canon, wanna know how?

ONI propaganda theory?


Which doesn't even hold water, it's an interesting "what if" but it is not true, and if 343i actually did decide to do that then they would be terribly lazy and that would be quite the cop out. Now the way the letter included in the Legendary edition of the game is worded gives 343i some wiggle room with how they want to organize the way the game and the book link up, but both the game and the book are equally canon, both tell part of one whole: The Battle of Reach.

Never said it was true. And let's remeber who was lazy in the first place. Not 343i, but Bungie for not making Reach fit into established canon.

[Edited on 06.27.2011 5:59 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2011 5:58 PM PDT


Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
So I solved the broken canon, wanna know how?

ONI propaganda theory?


Which doesn't even hold water, it's an interesting "what if" but it is not true, and if 343i actually did decide to do that then they would be terribly lazy and that would be quite the cop out. Now the way the letter included in the Legendary edition of the game is worded gives 343i some wiggle room with how they want to organize the way the game and the book link up, but both the game and the book are equally canon, both tell part of one whole: The Battle of Reach.

Never said it was true. And let's remeber who was lazy in the first place. Not 343i, but Bungie for not making Reach fit into established canon.


Didn't mean to imply that you did :/
Meh, I really don't think I can agree with that last statement. I think you either have to take them at their word or don't. I can easily connect what wasn't explained, so I think they did a good job. And if you ask me all the biggest kinks have already been ironed out.

  • 06.27.2011 6:39 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
So I solved the broken canon, wanna know how?

ONI propaganda theory?


Which doesn't even hold water, it's an interesting "what if" but it is not true, and if 343i actually did decide to do that then they would be terribly lazy and that would be quite the cop out. Now the way the letter included in the Legendary edition of the game is worded gives 343i some wiggle room with how they want to organize the way the game and the book link up, but both the game and the book are equally canon, both tell part of one whole: The Battle of Reach.

Never said it was true. And let's remeber who was lazy in the first place. Not 343i, but Bungie for not making Reach fit into established canon.


Didn't mean to imply that you did :/
Meh, I really don't think I can agree with that last statement. I think you either have to take them at their word or don't. I can easily connect what wasn't explained, so I think they did a good job. And if you ask me all the biggest kinks have already been ironed out.

So, -blam!-iong with the canon is 'aight, but clearing things for the fans is lazy?

  • 06.28.2011 9:10 AM PDT

I feel that Reach in with previously established canon very well. Everything is explained by the game or can be explained with common sense.

  • 06.28.2011 10:05 AM PDT
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o( >.<)o -- Kirby is not amused...

The errors in The Fall of Reach, coupled with the game, are the most severe "error" to Halo canon. Every other "error" is arguable.

The stories within the novels are written in a stream of consciousness perspective - we follow the storyline from the perspective from the characters (even though the story is written in third-person). We see the events unfold at the same time the characters do.

Because of this literary style, we can't assume that we're right about these so called errors. Behind-the-scenes actions can happen without us being aware of it.

You pointed out a discrepancy about Carter and the other S-III's were older than the outlined 6 year old limit for the S-III program.

Given the fact that the S-III's in Halo: Reach have very little background information, you're not considering alternative solutions.

Cloning was possible in Halo-canon. S-III's could have been cloned at a time so they would fit the age category of the program.
The ONI is very secretive and could have done a number of things.

Here's me being brutal - timeline errors are irrelevant in the fact that two novels (I believe it's two... it might just be one) have major time-based errors. At the beginning of specific chapters, there's a "timestamp" of sorts, yet chapters following an unfolding story happen to have conflicting timestamps.

Likewise, the content of certain novels have errors themselves. That should make "errors" of game canon acceptable.

  • 06.28.2011 12:44 PM PDT

I am all our makers once held dear: [Alexandria before the Fire].

((Farewell Halo 2! You will not be forgotten! Farewell!))


Posted by: grey101
first off we do not need 20 assault rifles that all do the exact same thing same for every other weapon.


Of course not, not for the game, but you're missing the point. I'm just trying to get across that Bungie shouldn't have to explain why New Weapon B was not seen in Game A.

The Earth government (pre-UNSC) was focused on colonizing not making new weapons for wars they aren't fighting.

Ever heard the famous quote by Sun Tzu? "When in peace, prepare for war"?

People are always advancing weapons technology. There's no reason to suspect they stopped for 200 years. Even during the colonization period there were plenty of wars going on. You're telling me that not even one of the 130-odd nations that will make up the United... Nations... (according to the fiction) was involved in military research. That's a very bold claim.

Again, the point is missed here.

  • 06.28.2011 2:29 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Nothing is missed when you are trying to apply every realistic detail to a fictional universe.

  • 06.28.2011 2:47 PM PDT

happiness is a warm gun

ya, the game canon is the deciding factor! books came after the game

  • 06.28.2011 6:52 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: mb3486
ya, the game canon is the deciding factor! books came after the game


Technically, no. Books came first before the game. Let's look this way: The Fall of Reach novel was released in two weeks before the Halo: CE was ever released. So, it arises some questioning on the canon policy, I think that was bungie done sloppy job with it. But, it's just me!

  • 06.28.2011 7:20 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: mb3486
ya, the game canon is the deciding factor! books came after the game


Technically, no. Books came first before the game. Let's look this way: The Fall of Reach novel was released in two weeks before the Halo: CE was ever released. So, it arises some questioning on the canon policy, I think that was bungie done sloppy job with it. But, it's just me!


I don't understand why people stick to the semantics behind what came first between Halo CE and Fall of Reach.

Halo CE was ultimately first period.

Fall of Reach was commissioned approximately 3 months prior to release.

It was released early before launch as part of a marketing decision by Microsoft to warm people up to the concept of Halo Combat Evolved.

Think, when was the story penned and finished for Halo CE.

  • 06.28.2011 7:28 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien


Posted by: StealthSlasher2
I don't understand why people stick to the semantics behind what came first between Halo CE and Fall of Reach.

Halo CE was ultimately first period.

Fall of Reach was commissioned approximately 3 months prior to release.

It was released early before launch as part of a marketing decision by Microsoft to warm people up to the concept of Halo Combat Evolved.

Think, when was the story penned and finished for Halo CE.

Conception means little. What came first was still the book even if the story for CE was already planned out and finite. The fact is that fans received the book first, therefore making it the first piece of official canon. I'm pretty sure it goes by publication/release.

  • 06.29.2011 7:39 AM PDT

Just play the game and don't get riled up about the exact facts...

  • 06.29.2011 8:08 AM PDT