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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: grey101
1. because the artifact must have some importance but we don't know do we? and the mystery isn't helping explain some of the contradictions of the story

The fact you keep talking about "mystery's" and the fact "everything doesn't need to be explain" i doubt you have read any of the novels. So Read the novels then you will understand some of the reasons reach "breaks canon".


I have read the novels. My point remains. These events don't happen in little vacuums. Just because something isn't covered in The Fall of Reach, doesn't mean it couldn't have happened during Halo: Reach. Absence of evidence buddy. Quit pigeon-holing yourself.


So explain to me why cortana needed a random forerunner relic to decode the sigma crystal when she did that in the book before they got to reach.

Explain why halsey was banking on something highly important to be at that location despite the fact it was never touched upon in the books.


you do understand that the entire theme of halo being found on a whim is completely shattered by the fact the PoA purposely went there? Then you have the fact of how the PoA got there so fast with the lacking human slipspace travel.



Do you mean before they got to Alpha Halo? Because she didn't figure out that the Sigma Rock was a star chart until they were fleeing the Battle of Reach.

Why does something have to be touched on in the books for it to be relevant? There are several things introduced through the games that were not touched on at first by the books, such as the Arbiter, which is the only one I can specifically think of off the top of my head.

Except they went there on purpose in TFoR as well, they didn't know it was Halo, but Cortana knew it was important in any case since the Covenant tried to get it when attacking Sigma Octanus IV, so even in the book she deliberately decided to go there. It wasn't just "oh, this is a star map, let's plug the coordinates in".
And what makes you say that the amount of time it took to get to Halo is implausible, and what does that have to do with this debate?

  • 08.03.2011 3:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: grey101
1. because the artifact must have some importance but we don't know do we? and the mystery isn't helping explain some of the contradictions of the story

The fact you keep talking about "mystery's" and the fact "everything doesn't need to be explain" i doubt you have read any of the novels. So Read the novels then you will understand some of the reasons reach "breaks canon".


I have read the novels. My point remains. These events don't happen in little vacuums. Just because something isn't covered in The Fall of Reach, doesn't mean it couldn't have happened during Halo: Reach. Absence of evidence buddy. Quit pigeon-holing yourself.


So explain to me why cortana needed a random forerunner relic to decode the sigma crystal when she did that in the book before they got to reach.

Explain why halsey was banking on something highly important to be at that location despite the fact it was never touched upon in the books.


you do understand that the entire theme of halo being found on a whim is completely shattered by the fact the PoA purposely went there? Then you have the fact of how the PoA got there so fast with the lacking human slipspace travel.



Do you mean before they got to Alpha Halo? Because she didn't figure out that the Sigma Rock was a star chart until they were fleeing the Battle of Reach.

Why does something have to be touched on in the books for it to be relevant? There are several things introduced through the games that were not touched on at first by the books, such as the Arbiter, which is the only one I can specifically think of off the top of my head.

Except they went there on purpose in TFoR as well, they didn't know it was Halo, but Cortana knew it was important in any case since the Covenant tried to get it when attacking Sigma Octanus IV, so even in the book she deliberately decided to go there. It wasn't just "oh, this is a star map, let's plug the coordinates in".
And what makes you say that the amount of time it took to get to Halo is implausible, and what does that have to do with this debate?


God i missed you coma ;)

they clearly knew it was a star chart unless my memory is fuzzy but i won't mind getting the page numbers. and that was before they even left sigma.

I don't know what you are reffering to by the "relevant" part. And we both know i am aware of that, i am only talking about the conflicting reach's. and since bungie said we are to ignore the book, that makes an issue and the book pointless.


any forerunner relic is important to the covenant, if they found a forerunner toilet they would probably think it was a magic portal or something. She stated in the opening pages of "the flood" that she merely used the chance to find out where the location would lead to; in other words ""oh, this is a star map, let's plug the coordinates in".


I think i got that mixed up with Mach's thread, i apologize.

  • 08.03.2011 4:47 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: grey101
1. because the artifact must have some importance but we don't know do we? and the mystery isn't helping explain some of the contradictions of the story

The fact you keep talking about "mystery's" and the fact "everything doesn't need to be explain" i doubt you have read any of the novels. So Read the novels then you will understand some of the reasons reach "breaks canon".


I have read the novels. My point remains. These events don't happen in little vacuums. Just because something isn't covered in The Fall of Reach, doesn't mean it couldn't have happened during Halo: Reach. Absence of evidence buddy. Quit pigeon-holing yourself.


So explain to me why cortana needed a random forerunner relic to decode the sigma crystal when she did that in the book before they got to reach.

Explain why halsey was banking on something highly important to be at that location despite the fact it was never touched upon in the books.


you do understand that the entire theme of halo being found on a whim is completely shattered by the fact the PoA purposely went there? Then you have the fact of how the PoA got there so fast with the lacking human slipspace travel.



Do you mean before they got to Alpha Halo? Because she didn't figure out that the Sigma Rock was a star chart until they were fleeing the Battle of Reach.

Why does something have to be touched on in the books for it to be relevant? There are several things introduced through the games that were not touched on at first by the books, such as the Arbiter, which is the only one I can specifically think of off the top of my head.

Except they went there on purpose in TFoR as well, they didn't know it was Halo, but Cortana knew it was important in any case since the Covenant tried to get it when attacking Sigma Octanus IV, so even in the book she deliberately decided to go there. It wasn't just "oh, this is a star map, let's plug the coordinates in".
And what makes you say that the amount of time it took to get to Halo is implausible, and what does that have to do with this debate?


God i missed you coma ;)

they clearly knew it was a star chart unless my memory is fuzzy but i won't mind getting the page numbers. and that was before they even left sigma.

I don't know what you are reffering to by the "relevant" part. And we both know i am aware of that, i am only talking about the conflicting reach's. and since bungie said we are to ignore the book, that makes an issue and the book pointless.


any forerunner relic is important to the covenant, if they found a forerunner toilet they would probably think it was a magic portal or something. She stated in the opening pages of "the flood" that she merely used the chance to find out where the location would lead to; in other words ""oh, this is a star map, let's plug the coordinates in".


I think i got that mixed up with Mach's thread, i apologize.


Haha my mom's been forcing everybody to do pointless housework because she's a neatfreak and something of a workaholic :/

I actually just reread the end of TFoR, and Cortana didn't realize it was a star chart until right around when they were prepping for the jump, that's the reading I got from it at least. I don't remember the page numbers, but I think it was the last chapter IIRC, I know it was after Chief was back aboard the Autumn and when he's on the bridge talking to Keyes.

It felt like you were saying that because the SWORD Artifact has not been mentioned in any books that it holds no relevance whatsoever. So I was pointing out that it doesn't have to be mentioned in the books to be important to the story or to make an appearance in the games.

I don't remember much from the Flood. Part of that was me not enjoying it because the overall tone and depictions didn't seem to match up very well with the rest of the expanded universe, imo.

Haha it's not a problem, I was just kind of like "you seem to be going somewhere with that point, how does it connect to what we're saying the thread?" :P It was a little out of the blue is all.

  • 08.04.2011 1:31 PM PDT

Sometimes, I won, Sometimes I lose. but always, I'll be the Best

Halo Reach: Bungie themselves extended out their arms and slapped Halo canon.

  • 08.04.2011 2:23 PM PDT

i think halo reach the game should just be declared non canon

[Edited on 08.04.2011 5:26 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2011 5:23 PM PDT

If it tastes like toast, smells like toast. Wait, why are you smelling toast?

Basically Reach destroyed any continuity with the books so just ignore it story wise.

  • 08.04.2011 7:10 PM PDT

I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.

  • 08.04.2011 7:18 PM PDT

Riverside23: For all the women of the group, if you've got a real man at least let him have his big piece of chicken.

WhtButterflyLiz: lol. Bring home bigger chikkinz, then, real man!!!

DEATHPIMP72: *throws pterodactyl on table*
Suck it JoeSki!!!

Posted by: Juan Teran
I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.


So...because they didn't cover every angle, its broken? Lol.

"They never said what happened to the girl from Winter Contingency. The canon is broken!!!"

*walks away laughing*

  • 08.04.2011 7:41 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: Juan Teran
I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.


So...because they didn't cover every angle, its broken? Lol.

"They never said what happened to the girl from Winter Contingency. The canon is broken!!!"

*walks away laughing*


That's completely different.

  • 08.04.2011 7:51 PM PDT


Posted by: longhorn10
Posted by: Juan Teran
I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.


So...because they didn't cover every angle, its broken? Lol.

"They never said what happened to the girl from Winter Contingency. The canon is broken!!!"

*walks away laughing*
Then why did Frankie didn't say something like "we'll reveal Jun's fate in the future", or "it'll be covered eventually"? He immediately said that we will never know his fate.

And we are not talking about a random character from the game, we are talking about a main character. A member of Noble Team.

[Edited on 08.04.2011 9:11 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2011 9:09 PM PDT


"the damn thing is 4 kilometers long and thus has enormous tonnage weight"

actually the the bluddy thing is 27 kilometers long

  • 08.05.2011 5:06 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

HIH


Posted by: privet caboose
skimmed.


I found a massive flaw!

Game Canon trumps Book Canon.

STFU and get over it already.

  • 08.05.2011 5:11 AM PDT


Posted by: Juan Teran
I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.


That assumption does not make any sense at all. So because they're not closing one aspect of the story (which really doesn't need much said about it) means that they won't deal with any of the rest of it? That's absolutely ridiculous! Where's your source for that quote anyway? I want to see the actual quote and context.

And if the story can't be repaired then why are there so many people around on here, and on Waypoint's forums, who have proposed completely valid, and well thought out reasons that are completely plausible and fix the stories? Hmm, answer me that?

And for your information, they have been dealing with pieces of Reach in small amounts, for instance in Visual Guide or whatever it's called that just came out or very small little bits and pieces in the Waypoint videos.

You may consider it non-canon, you are very wrong in that assumption however. 343i regards Halo: Reach fully as canon, so your claims otherwise are moot. Like it or not, for better or worse, the game is canon and you can't officially do anything about it.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 4:35 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 4:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Captianize
I Like Whale Genitals.

You must be new here.
Bungie stated that the game Halo: Reach would NOT I repeat, would NOT follow the storyline of the books.

  • 08.05.2011 5:03 PM PDT

With the first error,perhaps it was invaded on the 24th, but only the military new that and decided to withhold the information from the media.

  • 08.05.2011 7:28 PM PDT

And also, i'm quite certain that noble company was taken away from the spartan 3 major program before the death of the spartan III's.Like, imagine that noble team was like super special spartan II's. And regarding mac cannons, didn't one of the spartan teams fail to protect the mac generators? They were probably the on long night of solace, but didn't have the power to function.

  • 08.05.2011 7:40 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: Taiga

Posted by: privet caboose
skimmed.


I found a massive flaw!

Game Canon trumps Book Canon.

STFU and get over it already.


Not anymore. That was said by a Bungie employee and, GASP,
Bungie is no longer managing the Halo Universe. While our Halo-related forums and stats remain available, be advised that "official" answers and support about the Halo Universe (past, present, or future) are not.

343 has stated, "EVERYTHING WILL FIT TOGETHER." Game canon = Book canon.

  • 08.05.2011 8:35 PM PDT

Yeah, I'm sure the creators of the universe are at fault, and not random authors who write spin-off stories.

  • 08.05.2011 9:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: The Thunderman
Yeah, I'm sure the creators of the universe are at fault, and not random authors who write spin-off stories.


Other than the fact the authors have to have permission.

Other than the fact the others get the "halo bible"

Other than the fact the authors are given an area to write about.

Other than the fact the writers are told what not to talk about.

Along with the fact your a moron.

  • 08.05.2011 9:50 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Juan Teran
I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.


That assumption does not make any sense at all. So because they're not closing one aspect of the story (which really doesn't need much said about it) means that they won't deal with any of the rest of it? That's absolutely ridiculous! Where's your source for that quote anyway? I want to see the actual quote and context.

And if the story can't be repaired then why are there so many people around on here, and on Waypoint's forums, who have proposed completely valid, and well thought out reasons that are completely plausible and fix the stories? Hmm, answer me that?

And for your information, they have been dealing with pieces of Reach in small amounts, for instance in Visual Guide or whatever it's called that just came out or very small little bits and pieces in the Waypoint videos.

You may consider it non-canon, you are very wrong in that assumption however. 343i regards Halo: Reach fully as canon, so your claims otherwise are moot. Like it or not, for better or worse, the game is canon and you can't officially do anything about it.
Wrong Coma, I've seen most of your posts, and if it wasn't for the fact that you take grammar seriously, and strongly believe that your arguments can change the world, I would immediately consider you a troll. In fact, most of the stuff you write makes no sense at all.

According to you (sadly, I don't have the exact quote), it's good that Bungie broke the whole canon because it allows people to be "imaginative" and repair it by themselves. Also, you think that those who don't like Reach are only sad people who sit in front of their computer and do nothing but complain. Does that even make sense? And don't deny you've said this in the past.

Again, Frankie is quick to comment that "we will never know what happened to Jun". Why not simply say that he died protecting Halsey? Or at least say that we will know in the future? Jun is not a minor character, he is a member of your beloved Noble Team. And you can see that actual quote in Halo Waypoint Youtube Channel when they respond to fan questions. In fact, I'm surprised you haven't seen that video yet.

As for the small community who is trying to repair all the canon errors that Bungie made, are you seriously demanding a response from me? That question can only be answered with another question: WHY ARE THE FANS REPAIRING ALL THIS MESS? If Bungie cared, they would respect the established canon rather than creating all this mess.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Games > Books, right? Wrong, Bungie made the Halo Story Bible, which they gave to Eric Nylund to write Halo: The Fall of Reach. I said this in the past, and someone replied at me that "Bungie only gave bits of the bible to the writers". Can't really remember who said that, but that person should be ashamed of himself/herself because that makes absolutely no sense. So Bungie contradicted it's own story before this game even existed?

Sadly, I have to agree with you in your last sentence, there's nothing I can do. It's like that episode of The Simpsons, "The Principal and the Pauper", it happened, it was a mistake and we are still working in a time machine to protect our eyes from that episode, but still, it happened. There's nothing we can do about it. Idio... people will protect it and say it was a brave move from the writers, others will use common sense and, according to your logic, do nothing but complain about it. Reach is the exact same scenario, it happened, Bungie's tribute to the fans my ass...

  • 08.05.2011 10:41 PM PDT
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Books are not Cannon. As much as i love them. "Right of Way" so to speak is given to the games, because all other media is based off of the games.

  • 08.05.2011 10:45 PM PDT


Posted by: evil BlackComet
Books are not Cannon. As much as i love them. "Right of Way" so to speak is given to the games, because all other media is based off of the games.
Yes they are, Bungie has stated it in the past.

Not to mention that 343i owns it now, and they have said that games = novels.

You should do some research before posting.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 10:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 10:47 PM PDT
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i dont care about 343, im talking about Bungie's game not 343's attempt to attain glory.
Besides:
"Halo 'canon' can quite easily be viewed in a similar way as the kind of canon system in place with Star Wars. A certain hierarchy of priority. In other words, different levels of canon where the higher levels will override the lower ones whenever there is a contradiction.
Everything that Bungie has ever approved is canonical. But even then, certain things trump others. In order of canonical influence:

- The games rank first
- Published materials (books, comics, soundtrack liner notes etc.) rank second
- Marketing and PR materials third"

  • 08.05.2011 10:55 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Juan Teran

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Juan Teran
I remember when someone asked Frankie if Jun's fate will ever be revealed.

He said we will never know what really happened to him. In my opinion, he pretty much admitted (indirectly, of course) that they won't even bother repairing Halo:Reach, the story is a mess that can't be repaired.

Main reason I don't consider the game canon and only ONI propaganda.


That assumption does not make any sense at all. So because they're not closing one aspect of the story (which really doesn't need much said about it) means that they won't deal with any of the rest of it? That's absolutely ridiculous! Where's your source for that quote anyway? I want to see the actual quote and context.

And if the story can't be repaired then why are there so many people around on here, and on Waypoint's forums, who have proposed completely valid, and well thought out reasons that are completely plausible and fix the stories? Hmm, answer me that?

And for your information, they have been dealing with pieces of Reach in small amounts, for instance in Visual Guide or whatever it's called that just came out or very small little bits and pieces in the Waypoint videos.

You may consider it non-canon, you are very wrong in that assumption however. 343i regards Halo: Reach fully as canon, so your claims otherwise are moot. Like it or not, for better or worse, the game is canon and you can't officially do anything about it.
Wrong Coma, I've seen most of your posts, and if it wasn't for the fact that you take grammar seriously, and strongly believe that your arguments can change the world, I would immediately consider you a troll. In fact, most of the stuff you write makes no sense at all.

According to you (sadly, I don't have the exact quote), it's good that Bungie broke the whole canon because it allows people to be "imaginative" and repair it by themselves. Also, you think that those who don't like Reach are only sad people who sit in front of their computer and do nothing but complain. Does that even make sense? And don't deny you've said this in the past.

Again, Frankie is quick to comment that "we will never know what happened to Jun". Why not simply say that he died protecting Halsey? Or at least say that we will know in the future? Jun is not a minor character, he is a member of your beloved Noble Team. And you can see that actual quote in Halo Waypoint Youtube Channel when they respond to fan questions. In fact, I'm surprised you haven't seen that video yet.

As for the small community who is trying to repair all the canon errors that Bungie made, are you seriously demanding a response from me? That question can only be answered with another question: WHY ARE THE FANS REPAIRING ALL THIS MESS? If Bungie cared, they would respect the established canon rather than creating all this mess.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Games > Books, right? Wrong, Bungie made the Halo Story Bible, which they gave to Eric Nylund to write Halo: The Fall of Reach. I said this in the past, and someone replied at me that "Bungie only gave bits of the bible to the writers". Can't really remember who said that, but that person should be ashamed of himself/herself because that makes absolutely no sense. So Bungie contradicted it's own story before this game even existed?

Sadly, I have to agree with you in your last sentence, there's nothing I can do. It's like that episode of The Simpsons, "The Principal and the Pauper", it happened, it was a mistake and we are still working in a time machine to protect our eyes from that episode, but still, it happened. There's nothing we can do about it. Idio... people will protect it and say it was a brave move from the writers, others will use common sense and, according to your logic, do nothing but complain about it. Reach is the exact same scenario, it happened, Bungie's tribute to the fans my ass...


first off shut the hell up. Since this is the first post i have ever seen by you don't try to call somebody that is pretty well known around here a "troll". how would she even be one? do you new comers even know what a troll is?


1. Just because Reach is a flip-flop doesn't mean all the books are thrown out of the window. Coma has never said that and i would know because she would have said to me. So i am going to need a quote and a link since you claim to have seen her post that before.


2. Because He probably didn't die protecting her and that might be frankie saying

A) we acknowledge some of the "errors" with the game and don't want to go any further with them.

B) Lets just leave it open.

ether one is good because Jun isn't that important of a character.




  • 08.05.2011 10:56 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: evil BlackComet
i dont care about 343, im talking about Bungie's game not 343's attempt to attain glory.


huh?


Last time i checked 343 didn't have a plan to "dominate the world" with the steps on there website.

Not to mention the people at 343 LOVE halo and aren't going to butcher it. this Bungie worship is getting out of hand.

  • 08.05.2011 10:58 PM PDT