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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

Signatures are for squares.

ANOTHER re-issue would just be a massive kick-in-the-nuts to anyone who bought the FIRST reissue.

It needs to be done, but 343 is the one who looks like crap for it, not Bungie.

  • 09.28.2010 10:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: SirPwn4g3
If the mission of PoA happened on the 29th that makes a couple of issues, because at 0600 Halsey is with John working on his neural upgrade for Cortana.

I have a theory that is a bit half baked. If the times in the game are mission time, and not world time, it could, maybe, possibly work. Especially if Reach has a different sunrise/sunset time than Earth.
I think there is 28 hours in a day on Reach. Don't quote me on that though. It's somewhere around there.

@Caboose: I myself haven't bought the re-release of TFoR, but yes, it would be a kick in the nuts to the people who did. And of course 343 would look bad because of it. Everyone excuses Bungie because they made the series, but that can only go so far.

[Edited on 09.28.2010 11:09 AM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 11:04 AM PDT

OMG a Pwny!


Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: SirPwn4g3
If the mission of PoA happened on the 29th that makes a couple of issues, because at 0600 Halsey is with John working on his neural upgrade for Cortana.

I have a theory that is a bit half baked. If the times in the game are mission time, and not world time, it could, maybe, possibly work. Especially if Reach has a different sunrise/sunset time than Earth.
I think there is 28 hours in a day on Reach. Don't quote me on that though. It's somewhere around there.

@Caboose: I myself haven't bought the re-release of TFoR, but yes, it would be a kick in the nuts to the people who did. And of course 343 would look bad because of it. Everyone excuses Bungie because they made the series, but that can only go so far.


People who bought the re-issue are already kicked. It has the wrong years and nothing has been changed to fit the new stories. It adds a minimal amount of content.

If they would do a proper edit of the book I would buy it.

Halopedia states Reach has a 27 hour day, 28 sounded right to me, haven't found anything official yet.

[Edited on 09.28.2010 11:25 AM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 11:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: SirPwn4g3

Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: SirPwn4g3
If the mission of PoA happened on the 29th that makes a couple of issues, because at 0600 Halsey is with John working on his neural upgrade for Cortana.

I have a theory that is a bit half baked. If the times in the game are mission time, and not world time, it could, maybe, possibly work. Especially if Reach has a different sunrise/sunset time than Earth.
I think there is 28 hours in a day on Reach. Don't quote me on that though. It's somewhere around there.

@Caboose: I myself haven't bought the re-release of TFoR, but yes, it would be a kick in the nuts to the people who did. And of course 343 would look bad because of it. Everyone excuses Bungie because they made the series, but that can only go so far.


People who bought the re-issue are already kicked. It has the wrong years and nothing has been changed to fit the new stories. It adds a minimal amount of content.

If they would do a proper edit of the book I would buy it.
Yes, it's a double kick in the nuts. I would also buy it if it were a proper re-release.

  • 09.28.2010 11:22 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: privet caboose
ANOTHER re-issue would just be a massive kick-in-the-nuts to anyone who bought the FIRST reissue.

It needs to be done, but 343 is the one who looks like crap for it, not Bungie.


Amen!

  • 09.28.2010 12:12 PM PDT

OMG a Pwny!

It would be -blam!- to have people buy something again so soon after buying the same thing not long ago. That would make 343 look bad, but in this situation Bungie looks bad for breaking canon. They worked so hard to make everything else fit so neatly into the fiction, but the Pillar doesn't, and that's on them.

  • 09.28.2010 12:18 PM PDT

I ready the original post, but haven't sifted through 400 posts on here yet. How are Spartan III's explained being on Reach and how is Jorge explained as part of Noble?

  • 09.28.2010 12:22 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: The Enforcer OS
I ready the original post, but haven't sifted through 400 posts on here yet. How are Spartan III's explained being on Reach and how is Jorge explained as part of Noble?
Literally, ONI did it.

The Noble S-IIIs are pulled out of Alpha and Beta company before the ops that wiped them out (PROMETHEUS, TORPEDO).
Jorge is theorised to be one of the SPARTANS listed 'killed' by the augmentations. Putting him and Black Team in that position account for current S-II numbers.

Alternatively, he could have been on 'special loan' to NavSpecWar ONI Section 3, but Halsey would never have allowed that.

  • 09.28.2010 12:26 PM PDT

OMG a Pwny!

I'm guessing that the teams that went missing on Onyx weren't taken by the "Ghosts of Onyx", but pulled for other missions, Headhunters, Noble team, etc. S-II's were deployed all over, Grey team, Black team, Kurt, just like Halsey said about Noble 6: lots of black ink.

Also, for anyone wondering about peoples age, cryo freezing. Carter is a perfect example. He was orphaned from Biko, my theory is that as a child he was frozen until a foster home or orphanage was found, he fit the genetic markers, so he was thawed and put in the S-III program. He may chronologically be older than all the other kids, but biologically he's the same age.

  • 09.28.2010 12:30 PM PDT

Do we have any official canon references that I missed for that or is it presently spec? It sounds good,so I'd buy into it, but I've always been curious as to how Spartan Black & the Spartan II's on Spirit of Fire have been able to survive /exist given TFoR lists exactly 33 SII's the remainder of which who died on Reach (those not covered in FS & GoO)

Would Jorge qualify under SII Wash out, I can't remember the names but two were mentioned when Kurt was brought back into play. Was Jorge one of those names?

Edit: Also, Halsey & Jorge wouldn't have still had the same relationship like the other SII's had something like that gone down.

Did anyone read the section added to TFoR related to Halsey's SII protector being killed. Does anyone think that is implied to be Jun confused as a Spartan II, or supposedly a member of Red Team? It be doubtful on Halsey's end since she knew her Spartans....

[Edited on 09.28.2010 12:48 PM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 12:38 PM PDT

OMG a Pwny!

Although it's not written, I believe it was Frankie who at one point said that the number of Spartan II's is not set in stone.

  • 09.28.2010 12:47 PM PDT

That's utter garbage w/out explanation considering... 33 is a very exact number.... not About 30....

It's like they were backed into a corner and require a very serious means of explaining these SII's they're pulling out of the air.

UNSC only had means to fund 75 of the initial 150... so is there expectation that perhaps the other 75 were trained ... ie not related to the SIII's...

  • 09.28.2010 12:50 PM PDT

OMG a Pwny!

That's just a number though, easy to fix, that's not 10 chapters of a book.

And really were' only up by a few Spartans now, I think 12 (45 or so named, including washouts, so far), they haven't put hundreds of S-II's out there. Plus some of the washouts could be rehabilitated.

[Edited on 09.28.2010 12:59 PM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 12:57 PM PDT

That is true... however, the SII w/ the mangled arm mentioned in Halo Evolution was an example of a survivor, but if any others were like him it's doubtful that they were put back into service. There was the concern that they would slow the others down. :-/

  • 09.28.2010 1:04 PM PDT

He cocked his head as the symbols and numbers scrolled across the NAV console. The representations of Slipspace vectors and velocity curves twisted across the screen-tantalizingly familiar. He'd seen them somewhere before-but he could not make the connection.

Two things.

1.) If we assume both areas, books and games, are canon then we must assume Bungie and 343 are aware of these errors.

2.) Bungie and 343 are too smart to allow the entire plot of the Halo franchise fall apart due to a placement error of a ship or the lack of MAC guns.

Therefore...

Either the errors have logical explanation that have yet to be heard or new canon will explain the errors away. There are new Forerunner books scheduled to appear soon. Perhaps this, when coupled with Halo 3's legendary ending, will create a time warp explanation of the events stated.

After all didn't Marathon have some time warp story in it? I know that the crystal in First Strike had some warp factors.

  • 09.28.2010 1:46 PM PDT

I'd like to think they intend to rectify the situation... It's not common for franchises to get corrected though especially when plenty of different entities work on the same franchise.

I'd be more inclined to believe a parallel universe theory than a time warp one, but that remains to be seen. I got the impression the Forerunner novels would take place long before the Halo / Master Chief timeline started, so like an extreme prequel. If so, I'd expect more chance of having things explained in Ghosts of Onyx 2 than the Forerunner Trilogy

  • 09.28.2010 1:51 PM PDT

I just watched the Legendary Commentary from Bungie and it has me confused. In case someone doesn't know, it was 4 department heads.. not random people.

Someone asks "How does the game fit into the original books canon"
someone answers "Perfectly, It's like a giant jig-saw puzzle"

They go on to talk about how they made sure the dates were exactly right.

Were they not thinking correctly? Are we not thinking correctly? It's been awhile since I read the book, but Reach fell in a day in it.. and almost a week in the game.

I really wanna think that they are right, since then they didn't mess up the books... but it just doesn't add up.

Sorry if someone else has brought this up, but if not hopefully it will eventually provide some insight. Why would they claim that the game was designed around the book if it's got so many inconsistencies?

  • 09.28.2010 2:39 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Reach fell in 5 weeks, in Halo Reach.

This was brought up a few pages ago (don't blame you for not seeing it lol :P), and he reckoned that it was to get Marty to shut up, basically :/

It doesn't fit, it can't, and they must know it. It's basically a non sequitur.

  • 09.28.2010 3:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Bobcast is paid in MILF blind dates.

Someone may have already touched on this, but Covenant camoflague generators don't block heat, they actually create it. It just seems that Fermion or some other slipspace detection station would have noticed a giant heat signature. If this isn't the case then The Flood has been retconned.

(This is in reference to the Super-Carrier)

[Edited on 09.28.2010 4:46 PM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 4:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Thrasher Fan
Someone may have already touched on this, but Covenant camoflague generators don't block heat, they actually create it. It just seems that Fermion or some other slipspace detection station would have noticed a giant heat signature. If this isn't the case then The Flood has been retconned.

(This is in reference to the Super-Carrier)
Dang, they can't retcon The Flood, it's based of CE!

:O

  • 09.28.2010 5:13 PM PDT
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Thanks for Team Snipers Bungie.
Mythic Member, Legendary Member and back and forth. i just can't make up my mind!
Campaign - Halo C.E.>Halo 2>Halo 3
Multiplayer - Halo 2>Halo 3>Halo C.E.
Just about every thing I post is my opinion and nothing more. Be subjective. Respect other's opinions. Try to understand other's point of view.

"There's a ton of deviation outside of Bungie's canon that our fans and other writers have created. While we certainly had no interest in making a literal adaptation of "The Fall of Reach" book, we were cognizant of the event structure and the historical time line within that book, and we wanted to play nice with it as much as we possibly could."So sad. So much respect lost. Just goes to show that any company that does well will sooner or later turn in to a pure profit orientated company versus a company that has standards and doesn't sell out at any cost.

I still think this could have been avoided with just a little imagination. So I still believe this might have been done on purpose to spite 343 but that would imply that they would rather spite 343 even at the cost of spiting all of the hardcore fans that's been with them for years.

  • 09.28.2010 6:20 PM PDT

I dont see whats wrong i am sure there was a gap inbetween the pillar in space to reach back to space to pick up John, other than this it all fits, theres wars going on right now very big ones and we have no idea that there going on, so yeah small take on it.

  • 09.28.2010 6:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Alf stewert
I dont see whats wrong i am sure there was a gap inbetween the pillar in space to reach back to space to pick up John, other than this it all fits, theres wars going on right now very big ones and we have no idea that there going on, so yeah small take on it.
Think of it this way. The Halo canon is one giant puzzle, and Halo: Reach is just one piece of that puzzle. Now Bungie(during Reach's development) was the person putting that puzzle together. When they found the puzzle piece known as Halo: Reach, they couldn't find where it went, so they cut off parts of the surrounding pieces to make it(Reach) fit. It fits, but it really shouldn't. They altered the puzzle to make it fit.

Not the best analogy, but hey it kinda works. At least I think it does... :|

[Edited on 09.28.2010 6:39 PM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 6:35 PM PDT

No, this is more of an example of what happens when game developers believe that they are professional writers...

Wanna know why the book was popular...that's because Nylund was a "professional writer".

Wanna what happens when you force an author to write an entire novel based literally on the game...you get the Flood.

Wanna know what happens when game developers start writing novels...you get Contact Harvest, not bad, but terrible ending. Seriously, random sex scene.

Wanan know what happens when you have game developers claiming to follow canon closely, ooops, they meant the stupid Halo Bible in their head, that has never been written down.

This is what happens when you don't hire a lead professional writer for Halo. A true writer would not voluntarily destroy his own story...game developers, eh, they don't care.

[Edited on 09.28.2010 6:55 PM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 6:54 PM PDT
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You have a point.

Wanna what happens when you force an author to write an entire novel based literally on the game...you get the Flood.Is this meant to be an insult? I thought The Flood was pretty good.
Wanna know what happens when game developers start writing novels...you get Contact Harvest, not bad, but terrible ending. Seriously, random sex scene.I was a little surprised by this myself.
Wanan know what happens when you have game developers claiming to follow canon closely, ooops, they meant the stupid Halo Bible in their head, that has never been written down.Doesn't Frankie have the Halo Bible? I read an article somewhere about it. It has some kind of system where if a section of info is leaked, MS will know who leaked it.

[Edited on 09.28.2010 7:03 PM PDT]

  • 09.28.2010 6:58 PM PDT