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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

Die? Haven't you heard? Spartans never die.

At this point I've decided that while I really wish Bungie would come out and say, "Look, this is what happened...", I think the best thng to do is to consider the Halo storyline in generalities with very little emphasis and dates. The only year i consider important is 2552. If you don't bother with dates, it becomes a lot easier to think about.

  • 10.13.2010 7:35 AM PDT

Fight For Honor. Fight For Glory. Fight To Win...

Didn't read all 25 pages, but I have one thing to say...
Games > Books

  • 10.13.2010 11:56 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: ODSTxQwikDraw24
Kind of off topic, but does anyone remember how in Ghosts of Onyx, some of Alpha Company's Spartan-IIIs were supposedly kids who had had their parents killed on colonies such as Harvest. Kurt even mentions that some of them had lost loved ones on planets such as Jericho VII even though Jericho VII doesn't fall until 2535.

In particular, Shane is mentioned as remembering when Harvest was attacked. If the years match up, Shane is an infant when first contact is made.

The reason I mention this is because a lot of things don't add up considering Spartan-III candidates, their ages, dates, and that sort of thing. If you ask me, Carter, Jun, and Emile's ages are just another error in a long list.


Harvest was attacked 3 times. It's possible Shane was present on the planet during the second or third attacks. Maybe he was on Harvest in 2531, when the Spartans were there?

  • 10.13.2010 12:05 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: Lord Of B96
Didn't read all 25 pages, but I have one thing to say...
Games > Books
Brought up in the Community Forum - I, and others, regard that as spam.

It helps no-one, and is at best arrogant. It does not belong in a forum set up to discuss canon.

  • 10.13.2010 12:07 PM PDT


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: Lord Of B96
Didn't read all 25 pages, but I have one thing to say...
Games > Books
Brought up in the Community Forum - I, and others, regard that as spam.

It helps no-one, and is at best arrogant. It does not belong in a forum set up to discuss canon.


I thought he summed it up nicely. Games > books.
Bungie is a video game producer, not a book factory. All those books were Microsoft's idea. If Bungie had been independent at the time there may well have never been any books, but there would still have been a story.

And every one of those books state that they are based on the game.

Perhaps future Halo game releases will be based on the books, if that's how Microsoft wants it.

  • 10.13.2010 1:49 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: Stardriver 1

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: Lord Of B96
Didn't read all 25 pages, but I have one thing to say...
Games > Books
Brought up in the Community Forum - I, and others, regard that as spam.

It helps no-one, and is at best arrogant. It does not belong in a forum set up to discuss canon.


I thought he summed it up nicely. Games > books.
Bungie is a video game producer, not a book factory. All those books were Microsoft's idea. If Bungie had been independent at the time there may well have never been any books, but there would still have been a story.

And every one of those books state that they are based on the game.

Perhaps future Halo game releases will be based on the books, if that's how Microsoft wants it.
The reason it's spam, is because saying "games > books" was his sole 'contribution' to the thread. Which thus wasn't a contribution. He's told us what we already know (grudgingly) and done it in a condescending manner.

  • 10.13.2010 1:54 PM PDT


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: Stardriver 1

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: Lord Of B96
Didn't read all 25 pages, but I have one thing to say...
Games > Books
Brought up in the Community Forum - I, and others, regard that as spam.

It helps no-one, and is at best arrogant. It does not belong in a forum set up to discuss canon.


I thought he summed it up nicely. Games > books.
Bungie is a video game producer, not a book factory. All those books were Microsoft's idea. If Bungie had been independent at the time there may well have never been any books, but there would still have been a story.

And every one of those books state that they are based on the game.

Perhaps future Halo game releases will be based on the books, if that's how Microsoft wants it.
The reason it's spam, is because saying "games > books" was his sole 'contribution' to the thread. Which thus wasn't a contribution. He's told us what we already know (grudgingly) and done it in a condescending manner.


OIC.

  • 10.13.2010 1:56 PM PDT

True. The reason I mention this is because I thought all of the civilians were evacuated in the first attack on Harvest. He mentions remembering how crowded it was in the freighter when they left Harvest. Plus, I was assuming that the Covenant made sure that no one remained on Harvest after the first attack, as they continued to glass the planet after the evacuation.

  • 10.13.2010 2:05 PM PDT

Those who dance are often seen as mad by those who don't hear the music.

Carter, Emile, and Jun were spartan IIs, not Spartan IIIs.
Thus ruling out the operation: PROMETHEUS theory, as the Spartan IIs were on active duty in other regions of the galaxy.

  • 10.13.2010 2:40 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: Agrifex
Carter, Emile, and Jun were spartan IIs, not Spartan IIIs.
Thus ruling out the operation: PROMETHEUS theory, as the Spartan IIs were on active duty in other regions of the galaxy.
Carter, the oldest of the Noble members, is 9 years too young to be an S-II. Emile and Jun are 6-8 years younger than Carter is.

Besides, we know they are S-IIIs, it has been stated many times and besides, their tags go way above 150, and have A, denoting Alpha Company.

  • 10.13.2010 2:49 PM PDT

Cryo is more than likely the reason for age discrepancy.

  • 10.13.2010 4:57 PM PDT

The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it.

I was disappointed when playing Long Night's of Solace to see a total lack of any type of space battle.i don't think the UNSC fleet was ever shown.I never saw a MAC cannon and we only see a brief glimpse of the Covenant fleet.i feel like that could have been handled much better.It's doesn't quite feel like the military hub of the UNSC is being attacked by a massive Covenant fleet.

Just feels like we are playing through some little skirmishes on Reach.

I'm no a canon nut but I know enough about the book to say the game could have been a little more epic as far as battle scenes went.

  • 10.13.2010 6:34 PM PDT

When your out of options, your trying the wrong options.

Bungie has stated that they dont follow the book cannon

  • 10.13.2010 7:06 PM PDT


Posted by: harbingerofhalo
Bungie has stated that they dont follow the book cannon


Please, if you're going to post something, actually post something worthwhile. What you didn't seem to get in their statement, is that they don't totally disregard the books, they just don't follow the exact storyline of the books, ie. instead of following blue team, we follow noble team which are spartans they created for the game. That said, there ARE discrepancies and plot holes.

  • 10.13.2010 8:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.


Carter Jun and Emile were taken out of Alpha Company after a few missions.

The Circumference was an stealth vessel and the massive attack by the covenant fleet was too quick to delete the nav computer. Yes they knew the Covenant were on Reach but it's ONI we're talking about here haha...they don't follow the rules all the time, First strike shows that. When an ONI operative returns to Earth to report on Reach's destruction, without making multiple slipspace jumps before returning.

The six year old birthdate was for Spartan II's....Spartan III's had a wider gene pool and a wider age range. Remember the UNSC were desperate for expendable super soldiers.

Considering Humans and Covenant races evolved on Earth-like planet, it's hard to think that a planet can be attacked by literally any direction, and very hard to defend it from all angles. So I believe most the MAC guns were on the other side of the planet and the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface(by surface I mean in atmosphere) to attack the MAC guns from below, their destruction is backed up by the debris you can see floating in the background of the corvette and sabe missions as well as the Firefight map Corvette if you look out of the hangar shields.

As for the Pillar of Autumn being on Reach is it to hard to believe that after they picked up the Chief, Linda, Johnson and his team, that the Autumn landed on Reach to collect the Cortana fragment. Bungie expanded the timeline for the battle so there is enough time to fit this in.

These are all reasonable explanations and when you factor them into Halo: Reach you realize that Bungie only expanded the battle time, and had the Autumn land on Reach once. Hope this helps. :)







[Edited on 10.14.2010 12:06 AM PDT]

  • 10.13.2010 8:33 PM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

The six year old birthdate was for Spartan II's....Spartan III's had a wider gene pool and a wider age range. Remember the UNSC were desperate for expendable super soldiers.

Wider age range is incorrect. They were 6 or younger. Can only be explained by cryo(You'd have found that answer if you some responses).


Considering Humans and Covenant races evolved on Earth-like planet, it's hard to think that a planet can be attacked by literally any direction. So I believe most the MAC guns were on the other side of the planet and the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below, their destruction is backed up by the debris you can see floating in the background.
Not really, grunts breathe methane, for instance.

So, the UNSC faced all their guns on the side of the planet that doesn't get attacked by an incoming fleet? They would have to know which side of Reach pointed to human controlled territory, and which didn't. Also, it's kinda silly to assume they clumped them all together.

"the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below"
What? For one, the UNSC didn't know the Supercarrier was there, how could it be coming up from the surface to destroy MAC platforms?

  • 10.13.2010 8:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

The six year old birthdate was for Spartan II's....Spartan III's had a wider gene pool and a wider age range. Remember the UNSC were desperate for expendable super soldiers.

Wider age range is incorrect. They were 6 or younger. Can only be explained by cryo(You'd have found that answer if you some responses).


Considering Humans and Covenant races evolved on Earth-like planet, it's hard to think that a planet can be attacked by literally any direction. So I believe most the MAC guns were on the other side of the planet and the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below, their destruction is backed up by the debris you can see floating in the background.
Not really, grunts breathe methane, for instance.

So, the UNSC faced all their guns on the side of the planet that doesn't get attacked by an incoming fleet? They would have to know which side of Reach pointed to human controlled territory, and which didn't. Also, it's kinda silly to assume they clumped them all together.

"the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below"
What? For one, the UNSC didn't know the Supercarrier was there, how could it be coming up from the surface to destroy MAC platforms?



Where does it say they are all six or younger...exactly it doesn't the UNSC was desperate, why would they care about age.


I wasn't talking about atmosphere, I was pointing out that they all evolved on planets and it's hard to think that any side of the planet can be attacked, and almost impossible to protect all sides. So probably the majority of the Mac guns were on the other side of the planet protecting the more heavily populated side of Reach.

Oh and the Supercarrier and the corvettes were on the surface of the planet, then when the spire was destroyed the it entered orbit, which means it came from UNDER the MAC guns, so they could have more easily been destroyed.

  • 10.13.2010 8:54 PM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

The six year old birthdate was for Spartan II's....Spartan III's had a wider gene pool and a wider age range. Remember the UNSC were desperate for expendable super soldiers.

Wider age range is incorrect. They were 6 or younger. Can only be explained by cryo(You'd have found that answer if you some responses).


Considering Humans and Covenant races evolved on Earth-like planet, it's hard to think that a planet can be attacked by literally any direction. So I believe most the MAC guns were on the other side of the planet and the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below, their destruction is backed up by the debris you can see floating in the background.
Not really, grunts breathe methane, for instance.

So, the UNSC faced all their guns on the side of the planet that doesn't get attacked by an incoming fleet? They would have to know which side of Reach pointed to human controlled territory, and which didn't. Also, it's kinda silly to assume they clumped them all together.

"the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below"
What? For one, the UNSC didn't know the Supercarrier was there, how could it be coming up from the surface to destroy MAC platforms?



Where does it say they are all six or younger...exactly it doesn't the UNSC was desperate, why would they care about age.


I wasn't talking about atmosphere, I was pointing out that they all evolved on planets and it's hard to think that any side of the planet can be attacked, and almost impossible to protect all sides. So probably the majority of the Mac guns were on the other side of the planet protecting the more heavily populated side of Reach.

Oh and the Supercarrier and the corvettes were on the surface of the planet, then when the spire was destroyed the it entered orbit, which means it came from UNDER the MAC guns, so they could have more easily been destroyed.

Go read the novels.

Methane atmosphere is quite different from our atmosphere. By your logic, any living life is similar since they all evolved on planets.

Where does it say a majority of the SMACs were over the most heavily populated side of Reach?

The Supercarrier was never on the surface. How did it get past the SMACs in the first place? We never hear of anything that says the Supercarrier destroyed any SMACs either.

  • 10.13.2010 9:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: Hysterical Joker

Posted by: KillerDie666

The six year old birthdate was for Spartan II's....Spartan III's had a wider gene pool and a wider age range. Remember the UNSC were desperate for expendable super soldiers.

Wider age range is incorrect. They were 6 or younger. Can only be explained by cryo(You'd have found that answer if you some responses).


Considering Humans and Covenant races evolved on Earth-like planet, it's hard to think that a planet can be attacked by literally any direction. So I believe most the MAC guns were on the other side of the planet and the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below, their destruction is backed up by the debris you can see floating in the background.
Not really, grunts breathe methane, for instance.

So, the UNSC faced all their guns on the side of the planet that doesn't get attacked by an incoming fleet? They would have to know which side of Reach pointed to human controlled territory, and which didn't. Also, it's kinda silly to assume they clumped them all together.

"the rest were destroyed by the Supercarrier and Corvettes since they would have came up from the surface to attack the MAC guns from below"
What? For one, the UNSC didn't know the Supercarrier was there, how could it be coming up from the surface to destroy MAC platforms?



Where does it say they are all six or younger...exactly it doesn't the UNSC was desperate, why would they care about age.


I wasn't talking about atmosphere, I was pointing out that they all evolved on planets and it's hard to think that any side of the planet can be attacked, and almost impossible to protect all sides. So probably the majority of the Mac guns were on the other side of the planet protecting the more heavily populated side of Reach.

Oh and the Supercarrier and the corvettes were on the surface of the planet, then when the spire was destroyed the it entered orbit, which means it came from UNDER the MAC guns, so they could have more easily been destroyed.

Go read the novels.

Methane atmosphere is quite different from our atmosphere. By your logic, any living life is similar since they all evolved on planets.

Where does it say a majority of the SMACs were over the most heavily populated side of Reach?

The Supercarrier was never on the surface. How did it get past the SMACs in the first place? We never hear of anything that says the Supercarrier destroyed any SMACs either.


1. I have read all the novels...if you don't have anything specific in Ghosts of Onyx to point out about age REQUIREMENTS (and you don't), then I'm right.

2. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT ATMOSPHERE....if you evolved on a PLANET you should have the same rationale as we do...

3. It's common sense to defend the most important side of the planet ie. the most heavily populated.

4. The supercarrier WAS on the surface of Reach well within the protection of the MAC guns, Play the levels Tip of the Spear and Nightfall. It was cloaked by the network of spires surrounding it, then when the spire was destroyed the Supercarrier attacked a frigate that was under it. In the next level it was in orbit along with at least one other Corvette, There is also debri floating in the distance which could have been part of the fleet or the remains of the orbital MAC rounds.

[Edited on 10.13.2010 9:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2010 9:13 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: KillerDie666



Where does it say they are all six or younger...exactly it doesn't the UNSC was desperate, why would they care about age.


Ghosts of Oynx, Page 69, First paragraph.

  • 10.13.2010 9:16 PM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

1. I have read all the novels...if you don't have anything specific in Ghosts of Onyx to point out about age REQUIREMENTS (and you don't), then I'm right.

1. I have read all the novels...if you don't have anything specific in Ghosts of Onyx to point out about age RANGES(and you don't), then I'm right.

See how well that argument works?


2. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT ATMOSPHERE....if you evolved on a PLANET you should have the same rationale as we do...

Then why did you use the word atmosphere? And who says because you evolved on a planet you think the same way as someone else?


3. It's common sense to defend the most important side of the planet ie. the most heavily populated.

Who says the most heavily populated is the most important?


4. The supercarrier WAS on the surface of Reach well within the protection of the MAC guns, Play the levels Tip of the Spear and Nightfall. It was cloaked by the network of spires surrounding it, then when the spire was destroyed the Supercarrier attacked a frigate that was under it. In the next level it was in orbit along with at least one other Corvette, There is also debri floating in the distance which could have been part of the fleet or the remains of the orbital MAC rounds.

It was never on the surface.

How did it get past the MACs in the first place?

If you could provide images of the debris, I'd be more likely to reason with your rationale.

  • 10.13.2010 9:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: KillerDie666



Where does it say they are all six or younger...exactly it doesn't the UNSC was desperate, why would they care about age.


Ghosts of Oynx, Page 69, First paragraph.


It says nothing about age reqirements...it says that the majority is 4 5 and 6. You're telling me there can't be older children?

  • 10.13.2010 9:19 PM PDT


Posted by: KillerDie666

Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: KillerDie666



Where does it say they are all six or younger...exactly it doesn't the UNSC was desperate, why would they care about age.


Ghosts of Oynx, Page 69, First paragraph.


It says nothing about age reqirements...it says that the majority is 4 5 and 6. You're telling me there can't be older children?

Yep.

Otherwise the brainwashing process wouldn't be effective.
Also, where's your proof that the minority weren't under ages 4,5, and 6 and were instead older?

  • 10.13.2010 9:20 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

It doesn't say majority. It says, specifically, "four-, five-, and six-year-old children."

  • 10.13.2010 9:20 PM PDT
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1. you have no proof so its still up fo debate....happy with that one?

2.If you evolve on a planet you don't think that you don't have to defend yourself from ALL directions...so unless you evolved in space, you should still have the same psychological block when working in space or defending your planet.

3. Protecting Human lives isn't cosidered important. Plus who's to say that the military didn't have more of a claim to that side to protect. How did the Corvettes get past? They just did they were on the surface too.

as for the debris, if you play the multiplayer level Corvette ad look out the hangar doors or if you play the Sabre level and look off into the distance, you will see it.

4. Watch the final cutscene from Tip of the Spear it is directly over the frigate that destroys the spire. inside the MAC guns protective bubble.

  • 10.13.2010 9:26 PM PDT