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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: ULTAMATE POWER
Actually the books in the series have nothing to do with the Halo video game franchise.

*sigh*
*Rubs eyes wearily and leaves the thread*
*agrees with Spartan*

They're called extended Universe material for a reason, Ultamate. They expand the universe, of which the games and books are theoretically an equal part.

  • 11.09.2010 1:33 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: ULTAMATE POWER
Actually the books in the series have nothing to do with the Halo video game franchise.

*sigh*
*Rubs eyes wearily and leaves the thread*
*agrees with Spartan*

They're called extended Universe material for a reason, Ultamate. They expand the universe, of which the games and books are theoretically an equal part.


*Shuts door behind the last person*

Some people are really thickheaded, we like our huge Sci-Fi Universe, and when things don't add up, we try and work out ways for them to fit, or failing that, ask the makers. So far, we haven't done the latter.

I don't want to give up on this thread, but I might, because of stupid people.

The people who post after this, think. If you're just here to say the books aren't canon, or Games > all media, then don't say anything, you're not adding to the discussion, nor is it on topic, so by all rights, we should all report you.

At the moment the only thing left to solve is the Super Carrier thing.

  • 11.09.2010 2:40 PM PDT


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
However, I am now positive that it was an SMAC shot - Kat says (in the elevator towards the end of SWORD base) "where's our orbital support? There must be four platforms nearby that could take this out in one shot."

It also speaks volumes about the fact that no SMAC platforms were capable of engaging the Supercarrier, since 4 ODPs can apparently target the same point on the ground with overlapping fields of fire.


If you think about it, this quote is actually perfect evidence why it is NOT an SMAC round which is fired at the ship. Kat says "Wheres our orbital support, there must be four platforms available to take this out." Where indeed. They either could not fire for some reason, or would not fire due to it being suicide for UNSC ground forces due to the colossal energy levels involved with the SMAC ordnance. It would basically be like glassing Reach themselvs. This would also be a plausible explanation as to why they didnt SMAC the supercarrier on the spot after it de cloaked, perhaps a decision was taken that they didnt want to vapourise noble team, and irradiate thousands of miles of savannah with a gamma ray burst, no matter how much they needed the carrier dead.

However a frigate or cruiser MAC could get the job of destroying the corvette done without the collateral damage. Its all about proportionate force here. Im also liking the theory that the power/speed of a ship MAC can be dialed down to a few km/sec if need be, from the max of 30km/sec, which would explain the apparent slowness of the MAC round as shown. Perhaps the calculations were done and that measured amount of energy was all that was needed to hole the ship, it being only a corvette with its shields already down. Also weve established that its silly to think corvettes dont have shielding, and that shilds were probably down to deploy air support, or due to UNSC AA.

I do not think they would want to fire a ship MAC at the full 30km/sec into the atmosphere anywhere near friendly ground forces. The sonic boom alone from such an event would atleast have caused serious structural damage to sword base, aswell as mulching the internal organs of nearby infantry. However a 300 ton slug @ single digits km/sec wouldnt present that much collateral danger to friendly forces imo, it would still cause one hell of a sonic boom and perhaps blow everyone eardrums out though.

This is also corroborated when the Grafton moves in to MAC the spire, for which it had to seek special authorisation, and Jorge states "MAC rounds in atmosphere? Hold on to your teeth people!", obviously this means firing a MAC through air is a bad idea in general and only to be used if really needed. I believe the Grafton dialed down its MAC shot to only what was needed to demolish the spire, too.

  • 11.10.2010 10:32 AM PDT
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Just putting it out there, but in Halo: Fall of Reach, Cortana and Chief encounter each other. Yet in Halo CE, when Cortana gets inside Chiefs head, she says "Interesting, your matrix is just like the the ships" or something to that effect. Wouldn't she already know this from there previous encounter? I'm probably talking a load of crap, but I'm just curious!

  • 11.10.2010 10:39 AM PDT


Posted by: Beller
Just putting it out there, but in Halo: Fall of Reach, Cortana and Chief encounter each other. Yet in Halo CE, when Cortana gets inside Chiefs head, she says "Interesting, your matrix is just like the the ships" or something to that effect. Wouldn't she already know this from there previous encounter? I'm probably talking a load of crap, but I'm just curious!


Yeah, she did meet Chief before CE, but I don't think she'd ever been in control of a ship before, so she realizes how similar they are once she is re-inserted into Chief's helmet after he comes out of Cryo in the opening.

  • 11.10.2010 7:12 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Beller
Just putting it out there, but in Halo: Fall of Reach, Cortana and Chief encounter each other. Yet in Halo CE, when Cortana gets inside Chiefs head, she says "Interesting, your matrix is just like the the ships" or something to that effect. Wouldn't she already know this from there previous encounter? I'm probably talking a load of crap, but I'm just curious!


Yeah, she did meet Chief before CE, but I don't think she'd ever been in control of a ship before, so she realizes how similar they are once she is re-inserted into Chief's helmet after he comes out of Cryo in the opening.

I always assumed it was just Cortana joking with John. One of the first things he asks Halsey when He is given Cortana is weather or not she can control the armor, and given that she had just controlled the ship, it seemed likely she was just giving him a ribbing.

  • 11.13.2010 10:25 AM PDT

That works too, I had always kinda thought it she was kinda joking around with him a bit.

Actually if you think about it TFoR didn't match Halo:CE when the book first came out, in the game it makes it seem like Cortana is only the Autumn's AI, whereas in the book she's supposed to help the Spartans on their mission to capture a Prophet.

  • 11.13.2010 12:21 PM PDT

One Love,
One Tru7h,
One Destiny.


Writer for TheGameFanatics.com

Posted by: OrderedComa
That works too, I had always kinda thought it she was kinda joking around with him a bit.

Actually if you think about it TFoR didn't match Halo:CE when the book first came out, in the game it makes it seem like Cortana is only the Autumn's AI, whereas in the book she's supposed to help the Spartans on their mission to capture a Prophet.


This is true, Coma. Cortana was actually supposed to be a temporary AI for the Pillar of Autumn but when the events at Reach started to happen, she was made the ships permanent AI.

You are also correct about her prior mission. She was supposed to lead a team of SPARTAN-II's to commender a Covenant Carrier and capture it's Prophet.

A lot of people get it confused with them going to High Charity, when the UNSC didn't know of High Charity's existance yet(?).

[Edited on 11.13.2010 12:58 PM PST]

  • 11.13.2010 12:57 PM PDT

I think the game' story line has priority over the books...Meaning that Bungie can do whatever they want with it even if it involves being diferent than the books that were written by other people who were not related to bungie. (At least I think the authers whern't related to bungie)

and then again I may not know what the -blam!- I'm talking about. I also like a good story though and get a little irritated when things don't add up.

[Edited on 11.13.2010 1:25 PM PST]

  • 11.13.2010 1:23 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: prochief ftw
I think the game' story line has priority over the books...Meaning that Bungie can do whatever they want with it even if it involves being diferent than the books that were written by other people who were not related to bungie. (At least I think the authers whern't related to bungie)

and then again I may not know what the -blam!- I'm talking about. I also like a good story though and get a little irritated when things don't add up.


So the Halo books are there to confuse you only? And makes us understand that they don't care which story follow? just pay to play the game and pay to read books totally unrelated to the story?

If that's the deal, then (which apparently is) I'm very disappointed with Bungie.

  • 11.13.2010 7:06 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

It's sad that so many of these could have been fixed with simple, subtle corrections.

Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.
Why didn't Bungie just put Winter Contingency on the morning of August 29th? This game could have easily had the time span of 36 hours, and given time zone changes on the planet, the super carriers arrival in Tip of the Spear could coincide to TFoR.

Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach
Again, simply changing Carter, Emile and Jun's tags to not be in Alpha company would've prevented this problem.

Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1
Date change would have prevented this error.

Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.
Simply changing their birth dates would have prevented this.

Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach
It has been estimated that the Super Carrier is roughly 27km long. Bungie could have (No, should have) shown the Super Carrier dominating several MACs as well as other ships, thus giving Noble Team the idea to planet the "bomb" on the ship, saving countless lives.

Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach
Alright this one is a pretty big failure, maybe they could've put the ship in low-orbit? This is the only one that could not have been easily fixed.

[Edited on 11.13.2010 7:13 PM PST]

  • 11.13.2010 7:09 PM PDT


Posted by: King Nis085
Posted by: OrderedComa
That works too, I had always kinda thought it she was kinda joking around with him a bit.

Actually if you think about it TFoR didn't match Halo:CE when the book first came out, in the game it makes it seem like Cortana is only the Autumn's AI, whereas in the book she's supposed to help the Spartans on their mission to capture a Prophet.


This is true, Coma. Cortana was actually supposed to be a temporary AI for the Pillar of Autumn but when the events at Reach started to happen, she was made the ships permanent AI.

You are also correct about her prior mission. She was supposed to lead a team of SPARTAN-II's to commender a Covenant Carrier and capture it's Prophet.

A lot of people get it confused with them going to High Charity, when the UNSC didn't know of High Charity's existance yet(?).


Didn't they just not have time to activate the other AI?
I thought the Autumn's AI was supposed to be Wellesley (I think that was his name), of course, that's just speculation.

  • 11.13.2010 11:49 PM PDT


Posted by: prochief ftw
I think the game' story line has priority over the books...Meaning that Bungie can do whatever they want with it even if it involves being diferent than the books that were written by other people who were not related to bungie. (At least I think the authers whern't related to bungie)

and then again I may not know what the -blam!- I'm talking about. I also like a good story though and get a little irritated when things don't add up.

All of the books were written in co-operation with Bungie.

Eric Nylund was given the Halo Story Bible when he wrote TFoR, First Strike, and GoO. Contact Harvest was written by Joseph Staten, a writer at Bungie.

The Flood was written by William C. Dietz, and while I do not know if he was given the Story Bible (although I assume he was), he definitely consulted Bungie while writing it, and at that point Bungie still had the rights to Halo.

The Cole Protocol was also written with Bungie's consent, and I assume that Tobias S. Buckell was also given the Story Bible, or, at the very least, consulted with Bungie during the production of the book.

Evolutions was written by a bunch of people at 343I, with Frank O'Conner (a former Bungie employee, and Halo lore-master) being involved in the production of it, and even wrote one of the stories in the book.

It has been Bungie's stance for years that the books are, in fact, canon. And while they did also say that in face of minor discrepancies, the games were the defacto winners, these sort of discrepancies were things like "did Jackals board the PoA?" not "Reach fell over the course of a month, not in one day as every other piece of media has said"

If Bungie is going to simply say that the version of TFoR we all paid for, and the updated copy many of us paid for ( which was released just before Halo: Reach) are non-cannon, then they will need to rewrite the entire book series. That is something that will not make us happy. That is something that will make us very upset.

[Edited on 11.14.2010 12:09 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2010 12:08 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: King Nis085
Posted by: OrderedComa
That works too, I had always kinda thought it she was kinda joking around with him a bit.

Actually if you think about it TFoR didn't match Halo:CE when the book first came out, in the game it makes it seem like Cortana is only the Autumn's AI, whereas in the book she's supposed to help the Spartans on their mission to capture a Prophet.


This is true, Coma. Cortana was actually supposed to be a temporary AI for the Pillar of Autumn but when the events at Reach started to happen, she was made the ships permanent AI.

You are also correct about her prior mission. She was supposed to lead a team of SPARTAN-II's to commender a Covenant Carrier and capture it's Prophet.

A lot of people get it confused with them going to High Charity, when the UNSC didn't know of High Charity's existance yet(?).


Didn't they just not have time to activate the other AI?
I thought the Autumn's AI was supposed to be Wellesley (I think that was his name), of course, that's just speculation.
Wellsley[sic] is nowhere near powerful enough to control a ship, he is actually tasked with operating high-powered imaging gear issued to ODST field commanders.

Cortana was supervising PoA's shakedown, and when in slipspace, Keyes was going to give Cortana back to the SPARTANS and install the ship's main AI. Possibly.
However, Lt Hikowa does actually describe the second AI as a "backup AI for point defence." But obviously, it would have been capable of commanding the ship after Cortana had been removed to take on the Covenant ship that the SPARTANS would commandeer.

  • 11.14.2010 4:37 AM PDT

Leader of the Deadly Viper Squad


Posted by: manwith

Posted by: John Cage4
I agree. It is sad. There's no good reason they couldn't have just kept everything consistent.

And people who say "The games are canon and can overwrite the other stuff" are missing the point. Why not just have it all fit? It wouldn't have been that difficult.


Because we don't want to play a retelling story of tFoR and First Strike.

No, the point John Cage4 was making is that you can have your new game and new story with Noble Team, and that it can be entirely new, however, it shouldn't make redundant previous events from other sources.

I indeed agree with the statement "why not just have it all fit?"

  • 11.14.2010 5:58 AM PDT


Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: prochief ftw
I think the game' story line has priority over the books...Meaning that Bungie can do whatever they want with it even if it involves being diferent than the books that were written by other people who were not related to bungie. (At least I think the authers whern't related to bungie)

and then again I may not know what the -blam!- I'm talking about. I also like a good story though and get a little irritated when things don't add up.

All of the books were written in co-operation with Bungie.

Eric Nylund was given the Halo Story Bible when he wrote TFoR, First Strike, and GoO. Contact Harvest was written by Joseph Staten, a writer at Bungie.

The Flood was written by William C. Dietz, and while I do not know if he was given the Story Bible (although I assume he was), he definitely consulted Bungie while writing it, and at that point Bungie still had the rights to Halo.

The Cole Protocol was also written with Bungie's consent, and I assume that Tobias S. Buckell was also given the Story Bible, or, at the very least, consulted with Bungie during the production of the book.

Evolutions was written by a bunch of people at 343I, with Frank O'Conner (a former Bungie employee, and Halo lore-master) being involved in the production of it, and even wrote one of the stories in the book.

It has been Bungie's stance for years that the books are, in fact, canon. And while they did also say that in face of minor discrepancies, the games were the defacto winners, these sort of discrepancies were things like "did Jackals board the PoA?" not "Reach fell over the course of a month, not in one day as every other piece of media has said"

If Bungie is going to simply say that the version of TFoR we all paid for, and the updated copy many of us paid for ( which was released just before Halo: Reach) are non-cannon, then they will need to rewrite the entire book series. That is something that will not make us happy. That is something that will make us very upset.


None of the authors get the whole Halo Bible, they only get whatever portions are relevant to what period they want to write about.

If everyone would actually think about the supposed inconsistencies that have arisen with Reach, then we wouldn't be having these discussions. You can easily connect the game and the book together, the canon is not destroyed, and the TFoR is not rendered non-canon by the game, you simply just have to use the information available, and the new information in Halsey's Journal, to bridge the two.

  • 11.14.2010 9:56 AM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: OrderedComa
If everyone would actually think about the supposed inconsistencies that have arisen with Reach, then we wouldn't be having these discussions. You can easily connect the game and the book together, the canon is not destroyed, and the TFoR is not rendered non-canon by the game, you simply just have to use the information available, and the new information in Halsey's Journal, to bridge the two.


Uh, explain the supposedly invisible Super Carrier that slipped past the most heavily fortified human planet (other than Earth)'s defenses, scanners, and how did people not see the damned thing? And don't say it was an ONI coverup, why would ONI want to cover up something that dangerous? Would they not want to neutralise it as fast as possible? And fix the fact that EVERY piece of media has said Reach fell in a day, and the UNSC got trashed in orbit.

Oh, and the information in Halsey's Journal does sweet FA to explain that, and yes game canon is slightly more important than book canon, but why bother to include Halsey? She's only in the books, so people who don't care about canon won't know about her, and why include a fragment of Cortana? Why not just have some data chip that you have to take? Why bother with the whole POA is on the ground, when IT DIDN'T NEED TO BE? Why not just deliver Cortana to a Pelican? There was no point to much of Reach's story, it just looked pretty.

Also, what was the point of stopping the Zealot on Tip of The Spear, I didn't, and it didn't say mission failed. Maybe leaving it alive unlocks a different ending? Hmmmm

  • 11.14.2010 10:54 AM PDT


Posted by: Orphius_Rex
Posted by: OrderedComa
If everyone would actually think about the supposed inconsistencies that have arisen with Reach, then we wouldn't be having these discussions. You can easily connect the game and the book together, the canon is not destroyed, and the TFoR is not rendered non-canon by the game, you simply just have to use the information available, and the new information in Halsey's Journal, to bridge the two.


Uh, explain the supposedly invisible Super Carrier that slipped past the most heavily fortified human planet (other than Earth)'s defenses, scanners, and how did people not see the damned thing? And don't say it was an ONI coverup, why would ONI want to cover up something that dangerous? Would they not want to neutralise it as fast as possible? And fix the fact that EVERY piece of media has said Reach fell in a day, and the UNSC got trashed in orbit.

Oh, and the information in Halsey's Journal does sweet FA to explain that, and yes game canon is slightly more important than book canon, but why bother to include Halsey? She's only in the books, so people who don't care about canon won't know about her, and why include a fragment of Cortana? Why not just have some data chip that you have to take? Why bother with the whole POA is on the ground, when IT DIDN'T NEED TO BE? Why not just deliver Cortana to a Pelican? There was no point to much of Reach's story, it just looked pretty.

Also, what was the point of stopping the Zealot on Tip of The Spear, I didn't, and it didn't say mission failed. Maybe leaving it alive unlocks a different ending? Hmmmm


The scanners actually cannot ID a Covenant ship in Slipspace, all they can do is identify an object moving through it, that's why the ships at Sigma Octanus and the fleet that went to Reach were at first mistaken for an asteroid/planetoid. So slipping past the sensors would be relatively easy.

There are UNSC ships moving around the skies/atmosphere all the time on Reach, so it's not surprising, to me anyway, that civilians didn't take any particular notice of the Super Carrier. As for it getting past orbital defenses I didn't see any SMACs in the area, and the place the Super Carrier came into atmosphere in was rather sparsely populated, so I'm not sure if there even would be that many SMACs or ships there anyway. And ONI probably did do some covering up, I doubt they would cover it up amongst the military, but covering it up from the media and civilians would make perfect sense, you don't want mass hysteria breaking out over a single Carrier that could be easily taken out.

What media? I haven't seen any that says it falls in a day, in a way FS contradicts Reach falling in a day because the UNSC is still holding out when Chief gets back to Reach.

Bungie obviously wanted to include all of that, I can't say why they wanted to, because I'm not on the writing team. I'd assume they landed because Keyes didn't know how long it'd take to get the fragment to the Autumn, and waiting around in the midst of a space battle for a Pelican does not seem very smart to me.

The Zealot in TotS was in charge of the Covies in that mining facility thingy, and you were already there, so Kat had you take him out.

  • 11.14.2010 12:00 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: OrderedComa


What media? I haven't seen any that says it falls in a day, in a way FS contradicts Reach falling in a day because the UNSC is still holding out when Chief gets back to Reach.


Fall of Reach, First Strike, Ghosts of Oynx, Evolutions, those all say that Reach fell in a day.

And yeah, there were soldiers still holding out 2 weeks after the planet "fell," but that's because they were holed up in caves or underground.

  • 11.14.2010 12:13 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

Posted by: OrderedComa
The scanners actually cannot ID a Covenant ship in Slipspace, all they can do is identify an object moving through it, that's why the ships at Sigma Octanus and the fleet that went to Reach were at first mistaken for an asteroid/planetoid. So slipping past the sensors would be relatively easy.
They actually can, but only for individual ships. When multiple ships transition in formation, their 'radar' silhouettes blur over one another, making it resemble a planetoid rather than several ships. A Supercarrier has an identical (if significantly larger) profile to that of the Assault Carrier, and would be rapidly identified (though confused as to its ridiculous size) and destroyed as soon as it transitioned back.

There are UNSC ships moving around the skies/atmosphere all the time on Reach, so it's not surprising, to me anyway, that civilians didn't take any particular notice of the Super Carrier. As for it getting past orbital defenses I didn't see any SMACs in the area, and the place the Super Carrier came into atmosphere in was rather sparsely populated, so I'm not sure if there even would be that many SMACs or ships there anyway. And ONI probably did do some covering up, I doubt they would cover it up amongst the military, but covering it up from the media and civilians would make perfect sense, you don't want mass hysteria breaking out over a single Carrier that could be easily taken out.Can you see a space station or satellite from the ground, without a telescope?
Granted, they aren't between 500 and 3000m long but still.
Even if that were true, 3km UNSC ships do not look anything like 27km Covenant ships. All human civilians would know it was Covenant, and clearly hostile.

What media? I haven't seen any that says it falls in a day, in a way FS contradicts Reach falling in a day because the UNSC is still holding out when Chief gets back to Reach.You have clearly not read the Fall of Reach, which says it falls in less than 2 hours.

Bungie obviously wanted to include all of that, I can't say why they wanted to, because I'm not on the writing team. I'd assume they landed because Keyes didn't know how long it'd take to get the fragment to the Autumn, and waiting around in the midst of a space battle for a Pelican does not seem very smart to me.That course of action puts thousands more people directly in the line of fire, precisely where they cannot fight back effectively or evade it. It also puts the few survivors of the SPARTANs in jeopardy, and the entire human race (as luck would have it).

The Zealot in TotS was in charge of the Covies in that mining facility thingy, and you were already there, so Kat had you take him out.Apparently, the Halopedia crowd reckon that Zealot was one of the group that attacked you in Winter Contingency, and maybe (my own speculation now) held the data stolen from Visegrad. Making him a priority target or opportunity.

  • 11.14.2010 12:21 PM PDT

How do you brake quotes into little manageable chunks like that?

I actually just finished reading it Thursday, and I didn't ever see anything in there that said it fell in 2 hours, the space battle was still going on when the Autumn left. I haven't read any of the other books yet, I'm working on the Flood currently.

Is it in one of the other books? I don't recall seeing that they can identify single Covenant ships anywhere in TFoR.

How would space with about a gajillion Covie ships be safer than on the ground in a ship breaking yard in the middle of nowhere, and where it'd be easy to hide?

That's an interesting theory, the TotS Zealot is the only other one in the game other than the guys on Winter Contingency if I remember correctly.

  • 11.14.2010 1:31 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
How do you brake quotes into little manageable chunks like that?

I actually just finished reading it Thursday, and I didn't ever see anything in there that said it fell in 2 hours, the space battle was still going on when the Autumn left. I haven't read any of the other books yet, I'm working on the Flood currently.

Is it in one of the other books? I don't recall seeing that they can identify single Covenant ships anywhere in TFoR.

How would space with about a gajillion Covie ships be safer than on the ground in a ship breaking yard in the middle of nowhere, and where it'd be easy to hide?

That's an interesting theory, the TotS Zealot is the only other one in the game other than the guys on Winter Contingency if I remember correctly.

In TFoR, Keyes gets an hourly update from Lovell, and looks at the mass, then overlays a model of a Covenant ship (Frigate, if I remember right) and finds that it matches perfectly.

Obviously, anyone in the UNSC with half brain would be able to do something similar. But the only reason Keyes needed to play "match the ship profile with the shape" was because there were multiple Covenant ships close together, and they were being identified as a single mass.

So, yes, the UNSC can detect masses in slip-space, including their shapes.

[Edited on 11.14.2010 3:40 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2010 3:39 PM PDT



Posted by: Fatal Factor


If you think about it, this quote is actually perfect evidence why it is NOT an SMAC round which is fired at the ship. Kat says "Wheres our orbital support, there must be four platforms available to take this out." Where indeed. They either could not fire for some reason, or would not fire due to it being suicide for UNSC ground forces due to the colossal energy levels involved with the SMAC ordnance. It would basically be like glassing Reach themselvs. This would also be a plausible explanation as to why they didnt SMAC the supercarrier on the spot after it de cloaked, perhaps a decision was taken that they didnt want to vapourise noble team, and irradiate thousands of miles of savannah with a gamma ray burst, no matter how much they needed the carrier dead.




IMO, it makes sense to be an orbital platform.
In terms of Kat saying "Wheres our orbital support, there must be four platforms available to take this out."
isn't that because the ship is right over Sword Base? so blasting it would destroy Sword Base and everyone in it too? because isn't the whole point of the mission to clear the skies? 6, Emile and Jorge, taking out banshees + phantoms with the rockets.. once you do that, the long swords are free to come out, drive the ship away, once its in the middle of no where, boom.
haven't played campaign in a while, don't hate if i've made a mistake, i'm only human...

  • 11.14.2010 8:20 PM PDT
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"Men, we led those dumb bugs out to the middle of nowhere to keep 'em from gettin' their filthy claws on Earth. But we stumbled onto somethin' they're so hot for, that they're scramblin' over each other to get it. Well, I don't care if it's God's own anti-son-of-a-b*tch machine, or a giant hula hoop, we're not gonna let 'em have it! What we will let 'em have, is a belly full of lead, and a pool of their own blood to drown in!"

The games don't follow the stories.

  • 11.14.2010 8:26 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: Moonwolf
The games don't follow the stories.

Derp, that's not what we're discussing, we're discussing the inconsistencies between all of the books and Halo: Reach.

Posted by: Lord ICONOCLAST


Posted by: Fatal Factor


If you think about it, this quote is actually perfect evidence why it is NOT an SMAC round which is fired at the ship. Kat says "Wheres our orbital support, there must be four platforms available to take this out." Where indeed. They either could not fire for some reason, or would not fire due to it being suicide for UNSC ground forces due to the colossal energy levels involved with the SMAC ordnance. It would basically be like glassing Reach themselvs. This would also be a plausible explanation as to why they didnt SMAC the supercarrier on the spot after it de cloaked, perhaps a decision was taken that they didnt want to vapourise noble team, and irradiate thousands of miles of savannah with a gamma ray burst, no matter how much they needed the carrier dead.




IMO, it makes sense to be an orbital platform.
In terms of Kat saying "Wheres our orbital support, there must be four platforms available to take this out."
isn't that because the ship is right over Sword Base? so blasting it would destroy Sword Base and everyone in it too? because isn't the whole point of the mission to clear the skies? 6, Emile and Jorge, taking out banshees + phantoms with the rockets.. once you do that, the long swords are free to come out, drive the ship away, once its in the middle of no where, boom.
haven't played campaign in a while, don't hate if i've made a mistake, i'm only human...


I'm going to go and replay this misson tonight, and have a look at that Corvette getting shot. People in this thread have theorised that the shields on the Corvette were down due to it needing to deploy Banshees and Phantoms etc, so it could have been taken out by something like the Grafton from Tip of The Spear.

  • 11.15.2010 1:41 AM PDT