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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: cameo_cream
Sigh, i am disappointed that Bungie didn't go with cannon, to me it seems like they didn't care about Reach at all. They made just because they had to and didn't care about what happened to the game. (Which is why we haven't seen a patch yet for the -blam!- multiplayer).

:(


So they didn't care about Halo 2 or 3 either? Bungie didn't release a title update for those games until 5-6 months after release, and both of those games had issues that needed to be fixed. Wait until February-March, then start your correlation based whining.

  • 11.30.2010 12:47 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: cameo_cream
Sigh, i am disappointed that Bungie didn't go with cannon, to me it seems like they didn't care about Reach at all. They made just because they had to and didn't care about what happened to the game. (Which is why we haven't seen a patch yet for the -blam!- multiplayer).

:(


So they didn't care about Halo 2 or 3 either? Bungie didn't release a title update for those games until 5-6 months after release, and both of those games had issues that needed to be fixed. Wait until February-March, then start your correlation based whining.


Didn't Halo 3 get it's first Title Update (Melee fix) before Heroic released? Heroic released 77 days after Halo 3 released, the same way Noble released 77 days after Reach's release. Still no word on the first TU from Bungie.

I don't know when the first huge Halo 2 TU happened. =/

  • 11.30.2010 5:34 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: cameo_cream
Sigh, i am disappointed that Bungie didn't go with cannon, to me it seems like they didn't care about Reach at all. They made just because they had to and didn't care about what happened to the game. (Which is why we haven't seen a patch yet for the -blam!- multiplayer).

:(


So they didn't care about Halo 2 or 3 either? Bungie didn't release a title update for those games until 5-6 months after release, and both of those games had issues that needed to be fixed. Wait until February-March, then start your correlation based whining.


Didn't Halo 3 get it's first Title Update (Melee fix) before Heroic released? Heroic released 77 days after Halo 3 released, the same way Noble released 77 days after Reach's release. Still no word on the first TU from Bungie.

I don't know when the first huge Halo 2 TU happened. =/


The huge title update that fixed melee, weapon damage, and all that in Halo 2 came out around Aprilish right around the time the first map pack came out.

As for Halo 3 I don't believe so. I know they fixed the minor physics glitches such as meleeing a body across the entire map early on yeah, but I'm pretty sure (though please anyone that knows 100% with a source do correct me) that the actual system where melees went to whoever had the most shields plus mutual melees came out during the huge title update in February. I'll search old weekly updates in the meantime.

Edit: Yep. They didn't actually fix the melee system itself until February. So that is where my expectations are for them to actual adjust things affecting gameplay such as armor lock frosting. Until then I find statements that people making saying "Bungie doesn't fix their game like Halo 2 and 3" and of the like to hold no weight because they didn't fix those games at this point since launch of those games respectively.

Edit 2: Auto Update Featuring actual gameplay changes is released April 18th. So yeah. I wouldn't really hold my breath for Bungie to fix anything gameplay related until February-Aprilish for Reach.

On another note, I find it hilarious how big an issue quitting was in both Halo 2 and 3 looking through all these weekly updates from the past and seeing how many people wish Bungie did something about it. Now they did and people are complaining that they want it out, and that they should quit freely...You really just can't satisfy this community.

In any case I think going back to canon discussion would be the way to go from here.

[Edited on 11.30.2010 10:46 AM PST]

  • 11.30.2010 10:17 AM PDT

"One shot, one kill"

You knoe your stuff very well, but perhaps it was little errors that bungie acdenitly put in.Reachs ending was perfect in my way. =P

  • 12.01.2010 6:11 PM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!


Posted by: privet caboose
Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.


EPIC FAIL... Read halopedia it explains all of these "Errors"

www.halo.wikia.com

August 30th was when the full scale battle actually happened against the covenant and the humans, not tiny ops on the ground...

Carter, jun, emile were pulled out by there superiors before it happened...

Carter went through the same amount of training as every other spartan he just got the augmentaion when he was 16

the MAC guns were not within range of this area and were still charging, they started shooting just after the capital ship died when all the ships came.

the others are to long to explain... my source is www.halo.wikia.com i have read almost every page on that site

  • 12.02.2010 5:26 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: SteroidKloud

Posted by: privet caboose
Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.


EPIC FAIL... Read halopedia it explains all of these "Errors"

www.halo.wikia.com

August 30th was when the full scale battle actually happened against the covenant and the humans, not tiny ops on the ground...

Carter, jun, emile were pulled out by there superiors before it happened...

Carter went through the same amount of training as every other spartan he just got the augmentaion when he was 16

the MAC guns were not within range of this area and were still charging, they started shooting just after the capital ship died when all the ships came.

the others are to long to explain... my source is www.halo.wikia.com i have read almost every page on that site


Halopedia is never a good source to quote on unless they source, and even then Halopedia has a habit of sourcing irrelevant information to substantiate their "facts". So if you're going to cite anything, you have to come directly from the source because everything you've just posted alone is just assumption that Halopedia users put up with no actual facts within the current available canon to support them..

[Edited on 12.02.2010 10:15 AM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 10:13 AM PDT

That is all

Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?


Reach FELL on August the 30th yes, but that was merely the date when Reach was officially declared by the UNSC to be under Covenant control. Considering that Reach was humanity's strongest fortress world it would be ludicrous to assume that it could fall on the very day it was first invaded.

Some members of the S-III companies were re-assigned immediately after training, for example Noble 6. As for Carter, Jun etc, in a company of 300 known Spartans it's perfectly logical to assume that a few survived, and considering the entirely covert nature of S-III operations it's also logical to assume that any few survivors would be kept hidden if at all possible, in order to minimize the risk of their discovery by the Covenant or Insurrectionists. It's always handy to have a hidden weapon.

The third point isn't really an inconsistency, just an example of lax behaviour on the part of characters in the storyline.

The S-IIIs were also specifically designed to have less rigid prerequisites than the S-IIs for training, such as age and genetics. While 11 may be a fairly extreme age compared to say, 4, at Ghosts of Onyx specifically references S-IIIs continuing their training AFTER they received their augmentations, there is no reason to assume that Carter didn't simply receive his before the other Alpha Company members.
Since "Birth of A Spartan" shows Carter undergoing the Augmentation in decidedly different circumstances to the rest of the Spartans, alone in a large operating theatre, as opposed to one of many, in a much larger room divided temporarily into separate smaller theatres, we can assume that he was perhaps a 'trial run' of the Spartan III augmentation process, to determine if the less rigid protocols were indeed valid.

The Orbital Macs are completely irrelevent to Long Night of Solace, the point of the mission was to deliver a slipspace bomb covertly to the Covenant Supercarrier. Personally I find it hard to believe that what can only be described as a "huge space gun" could deliver a delicate bomb, covertly or otherwise, to a shielded alien capital ship, which would of course be 'parked', for want of a better word, outside the firing range of said space gun. As for why Jorge died, unless you were able to somehow use the MACs to shoot the bomb and detonate it, which would probably have unexpected and not necessarily positive results, not to mention the likely impossibility of such a feat, then Jorge's sacrifice still stands.

As for the last point, my knowledge on this point is a bit less accurate, but I think it could safely be said that while the Pillar of Autumn was indeed in space when the Covenant began their full scale attack, it descended at some point in order for for Halsey's package to be delivered. The mission to capture the prophet was planned BEFORE the Covenant invasion of Reach, not after.

[Edited on 12.02.2010 4:27 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 4:21 PM PDT

That is all

Oh and I'm not sure if this counts, but one small thing to add to your list is on top of the PoA being on Reach in Halo: Reach is that John-117 is shown in cryosleep in the bay of the ship. Not only does this not make sense for him to be in cryosleep before the ship has even left, since in tFoR he is only put in cryosleep before they make the jump to slip-space; but also because why in the world would his cryotube be in the docking bay? That doesn't even make sense just using common sense, and thats not even where we start playing as Chief in CE.

Unless you're claiming that Buck does indeed pick nits from the back of a caveman in ODST's aftermath according to canon, I'd say we can assume that the cryotube was just an easter egg, with no canonical significance. Bungie probably intended to include it somehow in a cinematic sequence, perhaps as a precursor to Halo: CE, and created a render, but ultimately cut the scene, and not wanting to waste the model, inserted it as an easter egg.

[Edited on 12.02.2010 4:28 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 4:22 PM PDT

That is all

Oh and apparently small craft such as Seraphs and Banshees can exit slipspace without being crushed and destroyed now days. And Phantoms that (I'm assuming hard here) don't have any reinforcement.

Ghosts of Onyx has the Beta Company S-IIIs exiting slipspace on 'long range orbital insertion pods', which are smaller than regular ODST HEIVs. If these tiny HUMAN MADE pods can travel into/out of slipspace using HUMAN MADE slipspace drives, it's safe to assume that a small covenant ship, with its shielding, Forerunner inspired design, and far smoother and more efficient slipspace technology, could do the same.

  • 12.02.2010 4:32 PM PDT

That is all

1: phantoms use spotlights- even though they have so much high tech they should see everything

2: the covenant tech not being 5969490000x more powerfull due to possesing forerunner tech for thousands of years

3: that earth seems to be entirely american

4: humans speaking different languages

5: humans should have some sort of walhack type thing

6: that stealth is part of the game when there should be technologie preventing this

7: that weaponry constantly changes even though it should have been perfected by both sides centurys ago


Technological advancement is pretty darn good, but I see no reason why it would allow you to 'see everything'.


One of the major points about the Covenant is that they ARE considerably more powerful than humans, but they are limited by two major factors, they imitate forerunner technology, but refuse to actually reverse engineer it and improve upon it, so their technology never meets its full potential. The second is that a large number of covenant weapons were not initially designed to be used as weapons, they are all repurposed MINING tools, designed to dig out forerunner relics. The Scarab walker, the Covenant's largest known groundside vehicle, it's a mining tool. The energy projector on covenant capital ships, mining tools. They are far less efficient than they could be, as evidenced by Cortana's improvements to the captured covenant ship's weapons systems in First Strike.
The Covenant was in fact a pact made to AVOID warfare, so weaponry is in fact the covenant's weakest asset, their strengths lie in shielding, speed, and stealth.

I'm not sure what you mean by this point... If you're talking about Halo: Reach, then you've lost me because Earth doesn't even appear in the game. As for Halo 2, and ODST, and Halo 3, the only Earth bound locations in the game are in east Africa, not the Americas.

Why would humans not speak different languages? We do today, cramped together on one tiny planet. Separated by the vast void of space it seems more likely that we would have separate languages, especially considering vastly improved translation software which would make cross language communication easier.

To my knowledge a wallhack is a cheat for FPSs, so, I guess it's perfectly logical to assume that in game canon, some people cheat at video games. This is of course, completely irrelevant.

I fail to see why technology should prevent stealth. One of the whole points of stealth is fooling machines, due to their simple programming and lack of actual intelligence. This point of yours makes no sense.

As for weaponry constantly changing, there is no such thing as 'perfect', what may work well for one situation will of course be useless in another. Besides, the games would be pretty boring if there was only one gun and it killed everything.

[Edited on 12.02.2010 5:02 PM PST]

  • 12.02.2010 4:39 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Pyramid Lad
As for the last point, my knowledge on this point is a bit less accurate, but I think it could safely be said that while the Pillar of Autumn was indeed in space when the Covenant began their full scale attack, it descended at some point in order for for Halsey's package to be delivered. The mission to capture the prophet was planned BEFORE the Covenant invasion of Reach, not after.


Personally I don't think it could be safely said that the Autumn was in space at any point during the Covenant attack on Reach any longer, but that's just me given how things have unfolded both in game and on paper.

Also bit of a tip. Edit your posts and add whatever additional things you want to address rather than quadruple posting.

  • 12.02.2010 4:55 PM PDT

why do people consantly state "reach is not canon" "the games are not the real canon" "the books are the real story" halo canon made by bungie... halo reach made by bungie

does anyone notice the recurring link between the 2. to be honest i havent read the books because my local bookstore dont sell em. also if the books are the canon and not the games isnt the halo legends random 1337 spartan with cave people and random dinosaur canon?

  • 12.11.2010 4:37 AM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: computer 1337
why do people consantly state "reach is not canon" "the games are not the real canon" "the books are the real story" halo canon made by bungie... halo reach made by bungie

does anyone notice the recurring link between the 2. to be honest i havent read the books because my local bookstore dont sell em. also if the books are the canon and not the games isnt the halo legends random 1337 spartan with cave people and random dinosaur canon?

Not many people actually say that the novels override the books, but that was because up to that point, the novels and games did not contradict each other so significantly. People want the novel version of Reach because it was simply a better crafted story. The game version has too many plot holes, did not fully represent what happened at the battle of Reach, and doesn't make ANY sense if you think about it.

Halo Legends is also one of the most debatable sources of canon, and for the most part, people need to regard it with discretion. The Spartan 1337 one is clearly an easter egg, whereas the Origins chapters were far more genuine.

And just a hint...if you have not read the books, then take care to read the posts that other people have made, because half the time the statement has already been said somewhere, and you just make yourself look like an ass. If you cannot get the books whatsoever, then at least read about it on Halopedia.

  • 12.11.2010 10:02 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

i have yet to understand how the covenant ships have cloak all of a sudden. while i don't see why they shouldn't have it, it doesn't make sense for them to use it all of a sudden. that being said if they used it from the start humanity would have been destroyed.

  • 12.12.2010 2:10 PM PDT

to me any cannon breatches in reach(game) are small and nimble, the OH NOES SPARTAN 3s :O have been cleared up if you think everything like halsey and all that is a canon breach read halseys journal and afterwards if you STILL!! think it's not true then God save us all, thing is people forget without the books cannon such as the prophets and johnson surviving wouldnt be known,

  • 12.12.2010 2:24 PM PDT

...You do know that bungie said they weren't following the books (in Reach) (Which Is most likely the dumb ass reason for this idiotic thread in the first place...)

@above correct

[Edited on 12.12.2010 2:49 PM PST]

  • 12.12.2010 2:49 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: grey101
i have yet to understand how the covenant ships have cloak all of a sudden. while i don't see why they shouldn't have it, it doesn't make sense for them to use it all of a sudden. that being said if they used it from the start humanity would have been destroyed.


I wanted to come out and post in this thread...

TLDR:

UNSC is effective in combat on all fronts, land/air/space... they are simply out numbered and out maneuvered.
The covenant have no fear of the UNSC attacking deep into their space, they can commit the majority of their fleet to offense.





Main Event:


Everyone who is confused about the technology differences between the UNSC / Covenant need to consider some (if not all) of the following:

1- Its clear the UNSC has a very large, very expensive, very invested military program. Which the public (according to Reach's gameplay) (the part where they say the saber program was denied to exist by three administrations) is not fully aware of.

More to that point, they are researching like fiends. Crazyed fools even! Even more to that point they have AI assisting them in that research. In a sense, its only a "matter of time" before they have the same technology as any other race.

2- The Halo games have never truly given out justice to the UNSC as a whole. My favorite example to remind people of this is in the novel about master chief on the "first halo ring" and of course our beloved Halo:CE game. Would MC accomplish his mission without the UNSC forces running parallel (and sometimes overlapping) missions?

NO! (yes I said that!) MC would have the entire Covenant forces chasing him down! The marines/UNSC story (told in the book in more detail) clearly (to me) shows that they had an important role to play.

My point being... Ants die easy yes. Ants can kill larger creatures by swarming them. Also by hiding in places they cant get to easy. Consider this, then apply it to the UNSC.
They are the hornets, the bee, the ant etc...

The UNSC uses ballistic weapons, at times augmented with "rail cannons" like the MAC guns. We've seen in reach and other games how effective they can be when used against enemy ships.
Heck! We've heard how ridiculously effective Cortana was using the pillar of autumn. A dinky little ship!

The UNSC can't win the war because they've been out produced.
More ships, more infantry, more support and supply lines!

3- Simple tactical combat. Like i said in the TLDR, the UNSC doesn't have the resources to strike into the heart of the convent. When you are the defender, and you value the lives of the people on your world, you can't leave it defenseless to go on the offense.

4- Religion. Prior to elites breaking off from the alliance within the covenant everyone was a walking nut for "the holy path" etc etc...

No fear of death, promise of salvation and some kind of heaven/afterlife.

In other words,like so often played out in human history: much death for the people under attack.


In closing,

The UNSC has a wide variety of equipment, manpower, tools of war and tactics to use. However, the logistics (meaning the travel time and organization of supplies and assets among other things) of the situation dictate an ever losing battle.

Which is why, Cortana took the pillar of autumn to the halo ring, which is why so many UNSC assets over the course of the halo video games were used, often suicidally to support spartan operations which turned the tide of the war.

Dr. Hasley by her own admissions in Halo:Reach pointed out that Reach would fall. Cortana (in a book or in halo 3?) concluded that going to some strange set of co-ordinates to investigate some alien derelicts that may or may not have anything useful was better then the pillar of autumn simply retreating to earth to help in its defense.

Cortana is not uncaring, but as I understand other human AI's are more neutral (although DOT in Halo:Reach seems to show signs of "caring" although that might be that sarcastic, ironic etc... AI stuff bungie filled 343GS with), Cortana being of forerunner (ie. more advanced) but having Dr.Hasley's neural "imprint" (and im not sure about memories etc) is willing to sacrifice the crew of the autumn to accomplish a "possible beneficial goal" In the same way Dr.Hasley was willing to send some of noble team to die defending the entrance to her lab underground in order to evacuate Cortana.

She clearly leaves you with the impression she was willing to die there and was unconcerned about evacuation for herself. (Halo:Reach cut scene)

See the parallel? Similarity? Its not cruel. Its a tactical mind set back with the mathematics of the situation. Not made lightly, Dr.Hasley had the support of Cortan's sister program and Cortana herself. I would bet my in-game combat knife that they talked about a million scenarios for Cortana to get off-world, for reach to survive, for the forerunner information contained underground to be stored, analyzed etc...

In the end...

Cortana was downloaded, and given to Noble Six and later MC.
Dr.Hasley was evacuated to another site on Reach (and then off world?????) and any other information or AI in ONI base (above & below) was destroyed as per Cole:Protocol


That's the gravity, the extreme measures taken, the WHOA!

That is:

HALO

-WLD7

EDITED TO MAKE MORE READABLE I HOPE :P

[Edited on 12.14.2010 1:35 AM PST]

  • 12.14.2010 1:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: grey101
i have yet to understand how the covenant ships have cloak all of a sudden. while i don't see why they shouldn't have it, it doesn't make sense for them to use it all of a sudden. that being said if they used it from the start humanity would have been destroyed.


I kinda forgot to directly anwser you grey101! Sorry!


It's clear via the Halo games that cloak has the following drawbacks: (that I am aware of)

- radar/sensors may not function properly or at all.

- the more you move, the more the system fails to keep up with a near perfect cloak

- disruptions to the cloak cause catastrophic failures in the cloak as a whole (seen as distortions or the user becoming more visible)

Halopeida: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_stealth_corvette

Another reason overall I would say,

With an aray of orbital MAC cannons at the ready, a few "stealth ships" trying to attack would probably be shot down within seconds of their initial attack.

There are other drawbacks we may not entirely know about:

-power use

-power use + other systems like slipspace + daily ship systems etc...

-design of ship's hull

- Asteroids and smaller space debries may not be blocked and would rip large holes in the ship's hull. Thus, you can only use cloak under certain space-faring conditions.

Hope that helps!

  • 12.14.2010 1:47 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

I think you should add the mistake about Halsey knowing about the Spartan III's at all. The forum had a discussion about it when the vidoc that had Halsey talking about all the member of noble team. Thread

  • 12.14.2010 6:20 AM PDT

I personally belive that Halo: Reach is not cannon. The story just makes better sense without it.

  • 12.14.2010 1:30 PM PDT
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Nothing says that a company can't make a game like reach which strays from their story (or so I'm told)

(I'm not familiar with the specfiic problems with reach, cant find a thread on it thats mature =\ )

Granted Reach doesn't cover the space battles very well. Granted it doesn't do "x" from the book instead it does "y". So?

I like Halo:Reach.

I don't like some things about it.

Overall I thought the events represented a chaotic, losing battle. The death of the Spartans/humans on reach, but hope with Cortana and the POA escaping. A nice mix of themes and ideas.

I'd also like to point out: Who says they won't add a DLC Campaign? Who says they won't add to the game?

Maybe we should be creating threads titled " Bungie: Lets talk about DLC and what we'd like to see!"

If you create a well throughout, logical and mature series of posts within a thread, I promise it will be heard.

  • 12.14.2010 6:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Big Black Bear
What are we supposed to be discussing here?


"Nothing in the 'Verse can stop me."

The MAC Cannons point also has a source in Halo 2 were a brief shot of the Autumn is seen leaving Reach with MAC Cannons orbiting a side of the planet in a flashback.

  • 12.14.2010 6:43 PM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: Spartan1065
I think you should add the mistake about Halsey knowing about the Spartan III's at all. The forum had a discussion about it when the vidoc that had Halsey talking about all the member of noble team. Thread


As stated in her Journal, until the events of the 2nd mission of Halo: Reach, she didn't knew that "Other Spartans" had existed.

  • 12.14.2010 7:19 PM PDT

"Peace, gentlemen...
Peace is the ultimate goal of the Traxus Project.
Peace not in our time but in the future.
Future generations will benefit from the work begun here today.
Gentlemen, I give you the Traxus Project"

[erroneous]

[Edited on 12.14.2010 11:14 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2010 11:12 PM PDT