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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

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Have you noticed, that in the Journal, she never mentions her kidnapping in the Battle of Miridem? only mentions the dead of Spartan-Sheila, but not her kidnapping and her rescuing by the Chief. Why doesn't even mention something as important as that?

That could have clarified why the Covenant would try to kidnap her, don't you think?

  • 12.14.2010 11:38 PM PDT

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Posted by: MasterSin
Have you noticed, that in the Journal, she never mentions her kidnapping in the Battle of Miridem? only mentions the dead of Spartan-Sheila, but not her kidnapping and her rescuing by the Chief. Why doesn't even mention something as important as that?

That could have clarified why the Covenant would try to kidnap her, don't you think?


For a science journal how is the kidnapping event itself important? Think about that for a second. She got captured while in cyro, got rescued in a jiffy shortly after coming to, the end. What is there for her to write about? Unlike Anders from Halo Wars, Halsey was unconscious for pretty much the entire time she was captured. If anything the event itself is indirectly mentioned because in addition to Shelia she mentioned the others who had died trying to rescue her.

Now the real question is what was of significance on Miridem's surface that caused Halsey to visit it with a Spartan as a bodyguard. That seems to merit some scientific value if she was attracted to a high risk area, and would be something that would most likely be in her journal.

  • 12.15.2010 1:05 AM PDT

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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: MasterSin
Have you noticed, that in the Journal, she never mentions her kidnapping in the Battle of Miridem? only mentions the dead of Spartan-Sheila, but not her kidnapping and her rescuing by the Chief. Why doesn't even mention something as important as that?

That could have clarified why the Covenant would try to kidnap her, don't you think?


For a science journal how is the kidnapping event itself important? Think about that for a second. She got captured while in cyro, got rescued in a jiffy shortly after coming to, the end. What is there for her to write about? Unlike Anders from Halo Wars, Halsey was unconscious for pretty much the entire time she was captured. If anything the event itself is indirectly mentioned because in addition to Shelia she mentioned the others who had died trying to rescue her.

Now the real question is what was of significance on Miridem's surface that caused Halsey to visit it with a Spartan as a bodyguard. That seems to merit some scientific value if she was attracted to a high risk area, and would be something that would most likely be in her journal.


Now there I could say, she was doing some research, maybe the loadouts? I mean, she was perfecting the armorlock or the invisibilty stuff? stuff that was ultimately lost in Reach?

This is just a Guest.

  • 12.15.2010 9:39 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Caboose for your Cole Protocol error. If you wanted instead of the wikia entry you could use this. From the CAA fact book.

  • 12.15.2010 10:26 AM PDT

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

Games are priority canon.

  • 12.15.2010 10:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Halcylon
Games are priority canon.
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.

  • 12.15.2010 10:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Duardo
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.

Praise the Lord, the light is being seen.

  • 12.15.2010 11:00 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Duardo
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.

Praise the Lord, the light is being seen.


This actually gave me a smile.

It's been three months and still not a single word from Bungie about all the canon errors.

So disappointing.

  • 12.15.2010 11:32 AM PDT

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Lord Snakie
Posted by: Duardo
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.

Praise the Lord, the light is being seen.


This actually gave me a smile.

It's been three months and still not a single word from Bungie about all the canon errors.

So disappointing.


If done right, Bungie could probably fix canon with only a couple minor retcons, I just hope they don't let 343 studios try to fix canon, the results would be disastrous.

  • 12.15.2010 1:09 PM PDT

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.


Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon
Games are priority canon.
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.
And Boba Fett is a clone, after over 20 novels that said otherwise... Which do you think is going to hold up in that case?

  • 12.15.2010 4:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Halcylon

Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon
Games are priority canon.
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.
And Boba Fett is a clone, after over 20 novels that said otherwise... Which do you think is going to hold up in that case?
I'm in agreement that games are #1 (same thing with Star Wars and the movies).

Games (or movies) > books and comics and whatever else.

It's just that the game made other canon obsolete..of course then one would think that maybe the books were never canon to begin with. I guess that's where people will either decide that the other things were just fiction within the universe or an alternate universe (I'll go with that because alternate universes are awesome).

  • 12.15.2010 6:10 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.

What about the possibility that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach after it picked up John and Linda from their orbital space station mission?

  • 12.15.2010 6:31 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: The Shepherd214
What about the possibility that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach after it picked up John and Linda from their orbital space station mission?

So then where was Master Chief? From everything we know, he is the last person you'd find sitting around when there is a battle going on, especially if it was the battle for Reach, as it is said that every Spartan II would gladly give their lives to defend Reach.
And if PoA did land after they picked up John and Linda...assuming the ship is even capable of such a feat...would there have been attempts to provide medical care for Linda? The main reason she didn't get that in original canon was because the PoA jumped right away after picking them up, and there was no time. If the PoA was on the ground, and they were all waiting...why did they not revive her? Certainly there is a chance they could have done that.

  • 12.15.2010 8:58 PM PDT

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Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon

Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon
Games are priority canon.
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.
And Boba Fett is a clone, after over 20 novels that said otherwise... Which do you think is going to hold up in that case?
I'm in agreement that games are #1 (same thing with Star Wars and the movies).

Games (or movies) > books and comics and whatever else.

It's just that the game made other canon obsolete..of course then one would think that maybe the books were never canon to begin with. I guess that's where people will either decide that the other things were just fiction within the universe or an alternate universe (I'll go with that because alternate universes are awesome).


So whatever happened in the books it just didn't happened in the game world?, and all the background made for Halo in the novels is just nada and the whole Halo universe as we tought we knew is just a different story? right?

  • 12.15.2010 9:17 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: The Shepherd214
What about the possibility that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach after it picked up John and Linda from their orbital space station mission?

So then where was Master Chief? From everything we know, he is the last person you'd find sitting around when there is a battle going on, especially if it was the battle for Reach, as it is said that every Spartan II would gladly give their lives to defend Reach.
And if PoA did land after they picked up John and Linda...assuming the ship is even capable of such a feat...would there have been attempts to provide medical care for Linda? The main reason she didn't get that in original canon was because the PoA jumped right away after picking them up, and there was no time. If the PoA was on the ground, and they were all waiting...why did they not revive her? Certainly there is a chance they could have done that.


Chief went into cryo after he came aboard the PoA, and he put linda in cryo too, since she was already "clinically dead". If the PoA landed after picking him up, he couldnt participate if he was frozen.

There wouldnt be a way to revive Linda since the PoA was in the middle of nowhere as the ground was being glassed around the ship as the level took place.

  • 12.15.2010 10:50 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: TF Function

Posted by: grey101
i have yet to understand how the covenant ships have cloak all of a sudden. while i don't see why they shouldn't have it, it doesn't make sense for them to use it all of a sudden. that being said if they used it from the start humanity would have been destroyed.


Hope that helps!


No it didn't help explain why 20 uears later the covenant want to use cloaked ships out of random. why would they even attack at all if they could cloak ships? I would just wait for the main fleet to arrive and attack from all fronts; instead of assualting a planet with 3 CCS ships and dozens of frigates.

And since i have been gone for months, where the hell were the MACs at?

  • 12.16.2010 5:32 AM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: The Shepherd214
Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: The Shepherd214
What about the possibility that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach after it picked up John and Linda from their orbital space station mission?

So then where was Master Chief? From everything we know, he is the last person you'd find sitting around when there is a battle going on, especially if it was the battle for Reach, as it is said that every Spartan II would gladly give their lives to defend Reach.
And if PoA did land after they picked up John and Linda...assuming the ship is even capable of such a feat...would there have been attempts to provide medical care for Linda? The main reason she didn't get that in original canon was because the PoA jumped right away after picking them up, and there was no time. If the PoA was on the ground, and they were all waiting...why did they not revive her? Certainly there is a chance they could have done that.


Chief went into cryo after he came aboard the PoA, and he put linda in cryo too, since she was already "clinically dead". If the PoA landed after picking him up, he couldnt participate if he was frozen.

There wouldnt be a way to revive Linda since the PoA was in the middle of nowhere as the ground was being glassed around the ship as the level took place.

Did you read my post at all? Master Chief is the LAST person you'd find sleeping if there was not a damn good reason to. The reason why he went into Cryo right away in the original canon was because, again, they were about to go into slipspace. So you're telling me, that for some reason, Captain Keyes himself can take the risk of being killed by getting on the pelican and picking the Cortana fragment up, and yet Master Chief is sleeping in cryo. That doesn't make sense.
This was Reach; the defacto home of every Spartan II, and
they would be the first and last line of defense for its protection.

Let me remind you that Linda was later revived on the UNSC Gettysburg; UNSC ships do have a medical suite, as well as the proper equipments. The only way that they would not be able to revive her in the new "canon" is if there were no medical personnel proficient enough to do so. However, even that seems unlikely since the POA did not suffer such severe damage at the time, and the medical personnel should still be present, and they should be trained to perform such tasks. Either way, it just goes to show that Bungie took way little thought in how their new story changes the established plot.

  • 12.16.2010 9:18 AM PDT

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.


Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon

Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon
Games are priority canon.
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.
And Boba Fett is a clone, after over 20 novels that said otherwise... Which do you think is going to hold up in that case?
I'm in agreement that games are #1 (same thing with Star Wars and the movies).

Games (or movies) > books and comics and whatever else.

It's just that the game made other canon obsolete..of course then one would think that maybe the books were never canon to begin with. I guess that's where people will either decide that the other things were just fiction within the universe or an alternate universe (I'll go with that because alternate universes are awesome).
I love alternate universes :)

But I understand what you are saying... but from the standpoint of, say, Star Wars again... there are close to 100 books now that are rendered obsolete because of movie canon. And those are books Lucas signed off on story wise. Hell, Coruscaunt didn't exist in the Star Wars Universe until it was written about in a book!

Its unfortunate that not all canon syncs up correctly, but it does help to fine tune the story, keep it simple, and keep it player driven.

  • 12.16.2010 10:56 AM PDT
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No it didn't help explain why 20 years later the covenant want to use cloaked ships out of random. why would they even attack at all if they could cloak ships? I would just wait for the main fleet to arrive and attack from all fronts; instead of assaulting a planet with 3 CCS ships and dozens of frigates.

And since i have been gone for months, where the hell were the MACs at?



A) Ok be specific here, are we talking the book or the game for Reach?

But the generic answer is not all ships in the fleet would have cloak, furthermore,not all ships in the fleet have the same roll. If that were the case, then all human ships would be identical.

Consider the differences between the Pillar Of Autumn and the Savannah (seen in game) Hull design etc... Very different.

Take a look at modern warfare (today's combat) ( I don't mean the game)
You have patrol boats, destroyers, cruisers, aircraft carriers etc...

Some ships are designed to destroy the enemy ships, some are designed to provide fighters and support craft. Some serve other rolls.

Never will you have a "one design does everything ship"

Get this idea of "cloaking wins" out of your head. It doesn't. Stealth as always been portrayed in fantasy universes as having drawbacks. Generally, in the form of reduced armor or the fact that you can't "stealth" a large vessel because the power required is exponential. Moreover, the added difficulty of maintaining a perfect cloak.

Finally, the UNSC isn't stupid. They have battled the covenant for (100 years? 200?) They have sensor posts, sensors stations, and sensor probes dispatched on patrol!

Even more to the point we know in other halo games they can detect the slip-space jump prior to the ship exiting, granted its a few seconds before they exit, but that still gives an AI weapons control system plenty of time to adjust and fire.


B) I forget which prophet says it, but at the start of halo 2 when the Arbiter is on trial. He requests to take the entire fleet to kill the humans. he is denied because the hierarchy has a different plan in mind. I also believe they are afraid of the Spartans some how invading High Charity and killing them. (Which MC does get on to HC in Halo 3...)

C) The starting fleet they invaded Reach with (in the game) was sufficient to win in the long term. That's why jorge suicide'd the largest (probably a flagship) ship.

They thought they might turn the tide with that. KEYWORD: MIGHT TURN THE TIDE

Then the rest of the fleet arrived. I bet even the convent long range communication isn't instant, nor their ability to travel between star systems. No doubt they launched in waves on purpose, perhaps the UNSC was attacking else where, they do mention that 66% of the fleet was recalled to Reach from assignments elsewhere.


That help? =\


There are things in the video games that don't make sense on the surface or are not explained.

This doesn't mean there isn't a plausible reason for it.

I highly recommend reviewing the Halo cutscence footage on youtube. Especially the opening of halo 2 which depicts some of hte space battle over earth and later on.

[edited for errors]

[Edited on 12.16.2010 3:02 PM PST]

  • 12.16.2010 2:46 PM PDT

Banned and proud of it.

Hmm...

Am I the only one who notices that there is only a grand total of FIVE canon errors?

  • 12.17.2010 2:20 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Computerexpert3
Hmm...

Am I the only one who notices that there is only a grand total of FIVE canon errors?


There are many more errors, but these are the biggest ones, and these ones rule entire books worth of canon worthless

  • 12.17.2010 2:26 PM PDT

Lets Boogie


Posted by: Halcylon

Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon

Posted by: Duardo
Posted by: Halcylon
Games are priority canon.
True, but Reach did basically make other canon (books) obsolete.
And Boba Fett is a clone, after over 20 novels that said otherwise... Which do you think is going to hold up in that case?
I'm in agreement that games are #1 (same thing with Star Wars and the movies).

Games (or movies) > books and comics and whatever else.

It's just that the game made other canon obsolete..of course then one would think that maybe the books were never canon to begin with. I guess that's where people will either decide that the other things were just fiction within the universe or an alternate universe (I'll go with that because alternate universes are awesome).
I love alternate universes :)

But I understand what you are saying... but from the standpoint of, say, Star Wars again... there are close to 100 books now that are rendered obsolete because of movie canon. And those are books Lucas signed off on story wise. Hell, Coruscaunt didn't exist in the Star Wars Universe until it was written about in a book!

Its unfortunate that not all canon syncs up correctly, but it does help to fine tune the story, keep it simple, and keep it player driven.


Actually the Star Wars EU has done a pretty good job in fitting in with G-Level canon (the 6 films).

EU stuff is made to try to fit in with the movies as well as with other EU material.

When there are mistakes....most of the times retcons are made to fix that (like the Boba Fett issue).

IMO Star Wars is better with Canon then Halo.

I wish some retcons were made to preserve some of Halo's "old" canon.

Although Star Wars movie canon is greater then EU Canon (so if something in G-Canon contradicts EU C-Canon, then that C-Canon is non-canon unless a retcon is made), i still consider the EU canon as long as that EU does not contradict the 6 films.

After all EU has really kept star wars alive (think the Thrawn Trilogy) and G-Canon has used things from the EU. Coruscant was first used in the Thrawn Trilogy, and if you have seen the "A NEW HOPE Special edition (97 or 04 one)", you would notice the "Outrider" in the back ground. Known as Dash Rendar's ship, a dude from "Shadows of the Empire".

I originally saw all the halo novels as canon to the halo universe, even though the games have a higher canon, but now with Reach breaking canon...i hope that Bungie or 343 make some retcons to preserve the canon THAT I USED MONEY FOR.

[Edited on 12.17.2010 3:56 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2010 3:53 PM PDT
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have bungie, at any point, discussed the glaring issues with the canon? all they need to do is give a reasonable response. its more frustrating as the some parts of the books canon do align with the games, ie - the existence of spartan 3's, not really explained in reach and only hinted at in the games packaging material / journals etc.
not knowing much about the star wars universe, did lucas ever explain his canon errors?

  • 12.17.2010 4:26 PM PDT

bungies, created a way for it all to fit and match up to the books very well ifact, sop halsey met a group of spartans that wernt her's well guess what thats the thing that made hr go looking for the new spartans in castle base :O,


reach fell in a month well advance party then a small fleet attacking half of reach that the army was fighting on and oni covering it up to stop mass panic considering they most likely thought they could quell the attackers.


hmm POA on reach well in halo legends origins part 2 go to 8:11 and have a look at the ships flying in athsmophere, now thats done their is plenty of time for the POA after dropping red team and chiefs team to the circumference to get down to reach and back the POA would need help but yeah it works, yes we need some more infomation perhaps some from 343 but untill then just wait.

[Edited on 12.18.2010 12:17 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2010 4:50 PM PDT