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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.


Posted by: Alf stewert
bungies, created a way ...


How did that apostrophe turn into a comma and move one letter right?

[Edited on 12.17.2010 5:59 PM PST]

  • 12.17.2010 5:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert
bungies, created a way for it all to fit and match up to the books very well ifact, sop halsey met a group of spartans that wernt her's well guess what thats the thing that made hr go looking for the new spartans in castle base :O,


reach fell in a month well advance party then a small fleet attacking half of reach that the army was fighting on and oni covering it up to stop mass panic considering they most likely thought they could quell the attackers.


hmm POA on reach well in halo legends origins part 2 go to 8:11 and have alook at the ships flying in athsmophere, now thats done their is plenty of time for the POA after dropping red team and cjhiefs teamd to the circumference to get down to reach and back would need help but yeah it works, yes we need some more infomation perhaps some from 343 but untill then just wait.

No offence, but I've seen you post several times in the thread and you always claim that the canon is "well" knitted between the games and novels, and that is definitely not the case. There are a lot of things in Halo Reach that were very carelessly drawn up in terms of logic, and things often don't make sense after a little thought. Sure, maybe with some canon bending and suspending disbelief, the halo canon will still be intact (mostly), but that doesn't change the fact that by screwing with the established and well crafted storyline, they started a butterfly effect that resulted in many stupid events.

  • 12.17.2010 7:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
bungies, created a way for it all to fit and match up to the books very well ifact, sop halsey met a group of spartans that wernt her's well guess what thats the thing that made hr go looking for the new spartans in castle base :O,


reach fell in a month well advance party then a small fleet attacking half of reach that the army was fighting on and oni covering it up to stop mass panic considering they most likely thought they could quell the attackers.


hmm POA on reach well in halo legends origins part 2 go to 8:11 and have alook at the ships flying in athsmophere, now thats done their is plenty of time for the POA after dropping red team and cjhiefs teamd to the circumference to get down to reach and back would need help but yeah it works, yes we need some more infomation perhaps some from 343 but untill then just wait.

No offence, but I've seen you post several times in the thread and you always claim that the canon is "well" knitted between the games and novels, and that is definitely not the case. There are a lot of things in Halo Reach that were very carelessly drawn up in terms of logic, and things often don't make sense after a little thought. Sure, maybe with some canon bending and suspending disbelief, the halo canon will still be intact (mostly), but that doesn't change the fact that by screwing with the established and well crafted storyline, they started a butterfly effect that resulted in many stupid events.
These "Canon is ruined threads" are those events. but it does fit instead of whining just think on how it fits. that and wait till more canon is out such as the redone issue of first strike

  • 12.18.2010 12:14 AM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
bungies, created a way for it all to fit and match up to the books very well ifact, sop halsey met a group of spartans that wernt her's well guess what thats the thing that made hr go looking for the new spartans in castle base :O,


reach fell in a month well advance party then a small fleet attacking half of reach that the army was fighting on and oni covering it up to stop mass panic considering they most likely thought they could quell the attackers.


hmm POA on reach well in halo legends origins part 2 go to 8:11 and have alook at the ships flying in athsmophere, now thats done their is plenty of time for the POA after dropping red team and cjhiefs teamd to the circumference to get down to reach and back would need help but yeah it works, yes we need some more infomation perhaps some from 343 but untill then just wait.

No offence, but I've seen you post several times in the thread and you always claim that the canon is "well" knitted between the games and novels, and that is definitely not the case. There are a lot of things in Halo Reach that were very carelessly drawn up in terms of logic, and things often don't make sense after a little thought. Sure, maybe with some canon bending and suspending disbelief, the halo canon will still be intact (mostly), but that doesn't change the fact that by screwing with the established and well crafted storyline, they started a butterfly effect that resulted in many stupid events.
These "Canon is ruined threads" are those events. but it does fit instead of whining just think on how it fits. that and wait till more canon is out such as the redone issue of first strike

By stupid events I was referring to the changed timeline during the battle of Reach. Example? Emile's death. There were so many retarded things surrounding that incident it's not even funny. Then again, your statement of assumed "stupid events" only applies to a few threads made, as you can plainly see the title of this particular thread is "Unexplainable errors in the halo canon", not "Bungie ruined Halo's canon".

I have no trouble believing that the canon can be fixed, whether or not it would be better or worse is another story. However, what I do care is that Bungie made a sub-par story that fails to provide a proper depiction of the greatest and supposedly most significant battle in the entire human-covenant conflict.

  • 12.18.2010 12:29 AM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
bungies, created a way for it all to fit and match up to the books very well ifact, sop halsey met a group of spartans that wernt her's well guess what thats the thing that made hr go looking for the new spartans in castle base :O,


reach fell in a month well advance party then a small fleet attacking half of reach that the army was fighting on and oni covering it up to stop mass panic considering they most likely thought they could quell the attackers.


hmm POA on reach well in halo legends origins part 2 go to 8:11 and have alook at the ships flying in athsmophere, now thats done their is plenty of time for the POA after dropping red team and cjhiefs teamd to the circumference to get down to reach and back would need help but yeah it works, yes we need some more infomation perhaps some from 343 but untill then just wait.

No offence, but I've seen you post several times in the thread and you always claim that the canon is "well" knitted between the games and novels, and that is definitely not the case. There are a lot of things in Halo Reach that were very carelessly drawn up in terms of logic, and things often don't make sense after a little thought. Sure, maybe with some canon bending and suspending disbelief, the halo canon will still be intact (mostly), but that doesn't change the fact that by screwing with the established and well crafted storyline, they started a butterfly effect that resulted in many stupid events.
These "Canon is ruined threads" are those events. but it does fit instead of whining just think on how it fits. that and wait till more canon is out such as the redone issue of first strike

By stupid events I was referring to the changed timeline during the battle of Reach. Example? Emile's death. There were so many retarded things surrounding that incident it's not even funny. Then again, your statement of assumed "stupid events" only applies to a few threads made, as you can plainly see the title of this particular thread is "Unexplainable errors in the halo canon", not "Bungie ruined Halo's canon".

I have no trouble believing that the canon can be fixed, whether or not it would be better or worse is another story. However, what I do care is that Bungie made a sub-par story that fails to provide a proper depiction of the greatest and supposedly most significant battle in the entire human-covenant conflict.
I can parshially agree the battle should of been bigger andbetter, perhaps bungie could of done a level or cutscene showing read teams fall to reach or something like that, but how was emilles death bad he dies you know he would he dies by an elite that surprised him. and i woudnt say subpar i would say a different view of the battle

  • 12.18.2010 12:42 AM PDT
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Emile's death was badly scripted because;
a) Why didn't he shoot the phantom down with the rail gun?
b) Who was firing the plasma turret at 6, worst aim ever, of all time.
c) Zealot elites x6, spartan x1, why are they moving so slowly? Its comically bad timing.
d) Zealot elite allows himself to be stabbed very predicatbly in the neck. They are hard as nails, it was a cutscene on easy difficulty!
I know errors exist on other Halo games and in any game for that matter, but Reach felt illogical, uninspiring and just plain badly thought out. Proof, scenes like this.
I should say however, i really like the the fee of the game, the movements and i enjoy battling the AI, my issue is with canon/story driven failures.

  • 12.18.2010 7:15 AM PDT

well it would have made reach a very short game

  • 12.18.2010 2:25 PM PDT

"98% of teenagers surround there mind with rap. If you part of the 2% that stayed with rock, put this in your signature."

Books =/= cannon

  • 12.18.2010 2:47 PM PDT


Posted by: topperharley
Emile's death was badly scripted because;
a) Why didn't he shoot the phantom down with the rail gun?
b) Who was firing the plasma turret at 6, worst aim ever, of all time.
c) Zealot elites x6, spartan x1, why are they moving so slowly? Its comically bad timing.
d) Zealot elite allows himself to be stabbed very predicatbly in the neck. They are hard as nails, it was a cutscene on easy difficulty!
I know errors exist on other Halo games and in any game for that matter, but Reach felt illogical, uninspiring and just plain badly thought out. Proof, scenes like this.
I should say however, i really like the the fee of the game, the movements and i enjoy battling the AI, my issue is with canon/story driven failures.
did you miss the part were the mac was aimed at the cruiser did you miss the part were the phantom sped right through to emille hell do you not remember how slow the mac is to move?

and a stab to the neck can kill and elite his shields are down and the damage cause by loss of blood can and will kill a elite that and perhaps emille stabbed the elite more on the ground.

Emillewas occupied with the crusier enough to not notice another elite behind him his suit may have been damaged at this point of the game.

[Edited on 12.18.2010 5:45 PM PST]

  • 12.18.2010 5:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: topperharley
Emile's death was badly scripted because;
a) Why didn't he shoot the phantom down with the rail gun?
b) Who was firing the plasma turret at 6, worst aim ever, of all time.
c) Zealot elites x6, spartan x1, why are they moving so slowly? Its comically bad timing.
d) Zealot elite allows himself to be stabbed very predicatbly in the neck. They are hard as nails, it was a cutscene on easy difficulty!
I know errors exist on other Halo games and in any game for that matter, but Reach felt illogical, uninspiring and just plain badly thought out. Proof, scenes like this.
I should say however, i really like the the fee of the game, the movements and i enjoy battling the AI, my issue is with canon/story driven failures.
did you miss the part were the mac was aimed at the cruiser did you miss the part were the phantom sped right through to emille hell do you not remember how slow the mac is to move?

and a stab to the neck can kill and elite his shields are down and the damage cause by loss of blood can and will kill a elite that and perhaps emille stabbed the elite more on the ground.

Emille was occupied with the crusier enough to not notice another elite behind him his suit may have been damaged at this point of the game.

I'd thought that his arguments, although not complete, would be sufficient to prove my point...but looks like I'll have to add my own...
So the MAC was aimed at the cruiser, and let's assume that Emile was not able to turn it to destroy the phantom there were still plenty of stupid things in the short cutscene...
-Why did none of the Pelican pilots seem to have realized that the phantom was there? there was no "Noble 4 (or Captain Keyes), we have an incoming phantom, approaching fast" or whatever. Let me remind you that you can actually see that phantom coming in the cutscene itself.
-When the phantom did show up, why did the pelicans not engage it? Granted, the first pelican (which was the escort, supposed to be on guard) was taken out fast because it did not shoot at the phantom as it appeared, instead, it faced a completely wrong direction. That still doesn't change the fact that the pelican carrying Keyes did not engage the phantom at any point.
-Why did the phantom change its target from the pelicans to Noble six? The pelican is obviously a much larger threat.
-Why did Noble six just crouch there? a well trained soldier would have tried to do something; get to cover, run to avoid the plasma bolts, or even just warn Emile. None of these happened.
-The covenant phantom just left after dropping off the two zealots. Why didn't it stick around to make sure the job was done? Why didn't it engage the pelican and Noble six? For that matter, why didn't the pelican engage the phantom?
-Emile was frking slow. He definitely took his time killing the first elite, something that should not happen in a clearly hostile area. The entire sequence of stand up-aim-pump-shotgun-shoot took way too long. Why didn't he pump the shotgun as he aimed?
-And then he proceeded to fail by saying "who's next?" to the dead body of the elite instead of looking around for more danger, not checking his motion sensor, since he was caught off-guard by the second zealot.
-At the point when the second elite showed up, he again showed the skills and agility of a standard marine instead of an augmented super-soldier. First, he was not aware of the elite's presence, despite the lists of clues he would have had, then, when it growled, he did not even dive away, turn around, or anything. He lets himself get stabbed.

So there you go...a list of things that didn't make sense in one single cutscene because Bungie couldn't spare some time making sure the cutscenes were logically constructed. By the way, saying emile's armor may have been damaged doesn't make it true. For all we know, it wasn't, as we didn't see it happen. Saying that the armor was damaged has no proof; only speculation.

  • 12.18.2010 6:16 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: topperharley
Emile's death was badly scripted because;
a) Why didn't he shoot the phantom down with the rail gun?
b) Who was firing the plasma turret at 6, worst aim ever, of all time.
c) Zealot elites x6, spartan x1, why are they moving so slowly? Its comically bad timing.
d) Zealot elite allows himself to be stabbed very predicatbly in the neck. They are hard as nails, it was a cutscene on easy difficulty!
I know errors exist on other Halo games and in any game for that matter, but Reach felt illogical, uninspiring and just plain badly thought out. Proof, scenes like this.
I should say however, i really like the the fee of the game, the movements and i enjoy battling the AI, my issue is with canon/story driven failures.
did you miss the part were the mac was aimed at the cruiser did you miss the part were the phantom sped right through to emille hell do you not remember how slow the mac is to move?

and a stab to the neck can kill and elite his shields are down and the damage cause by loss of blood can and will kill a elite that and perhaps emille stabbed the elite more on the ground.

Emille was occupied with the crusier enough to not notice another elite behind him his suit may have been damaged at this point of the game.

I'd thought that his arguments, although not complete, would be sufficient to prove my point...but looks like I'll have to add my own...
So the MAC was aimed at the cruiser, and let's assume that Emile was not able to turn it to destroy the phantom there were still plenty of stupid things in the short cutscene...
-Why did none of the Pelican pilots seem to have realized that the phantom was there? there was no "Noble 4 (or Captain Keyes), we have an incoming phantom, approaching fast" or whatever. Let me remind you that you can actually see that phantom coming in the cutscene itself.
-When the phantom did show up, why did the pelicans not engage it? Granted, the first pelican (which was the escort, supposed to be on guard) was taken out fast because it did not shoot at the phantom as it appeared, instead, it faced a completely wrong direction. That still doesn't change the fact that the pelican carrying Keyes did not engage the phantom at any point.
-Why did the phantom change its target from the pelicans to Noble six? The pelican is obviously a much larger threat.
-Why did Noble six just crouch there? a well trained soldier would have tried to do something; get to cover, run to avoid the plasma bolts, or even just warn Emile. None of these happened.
-The covenant phantom just left after dropping off the two zealots. Why didn't it stick around to make sure the job was done? Why didn't it engage the pelican and Noble six? For that matter, why didn't the pelican engage the phantom?
-Emile was frking slow. He definitely took his time killing the first elite, something that should not happen in a clearly hostile area. The entire sequence of stand up-aim-pump-shotgun-shoot took way too long. Why didn't he pump the shotgun as he aimed?
-And then he proceeded to fail by saying "who's next?" to the dead body of the elite instead of looking around for more danger, not checking his motion sensor, since he was caught off-guard by the second zealot.
-At the point when the second elite showed up, he again showed the skills and agility of a standard marine instead of an augmented super-soldier. First, he was not aware of the elite's presence, despite the lists of clues he would have had, then, when it growled, he did not even dive away, turn around, or anything. He lets himself get stabbed.

So there you go...a list of things that didn't make sense in one single cutscene because Bungie couldn't spare some time making sure the cutscenes were logically constructed. By the way, saying emile's armor may have been damaged doesn't make it true. For all we know, it wasn't, as we didn't see it happen. Saying that the armor was damaged has no proof; only speculation.

Enter button please learn to use it. anyway hmm lets see a planets the pilots lived on being destroyed and a cruiser coming in to destroy them would make anyone edgy the first pelican was killed because it wasnt facing the same way as the phantom it was facing the Autumn Why? we can Assume that it was looking out for cruisers to see if any were coming from the other side of the autumn it was occupied by this in which it would obviously get destroyed and as they had the package it started moving towards the Autumn then got shot down it was in a hurry to get back to the POA.

The pelican couldnt engage it was on a time limit a small window to escape why spend time fighting a phantom which could take you out when you got something that could end a war? God hopes your not in charge of a humanity saving feat we would all die.

the phantom had Elites on board they most likely wanted a worthy kill so they left the pelican and killed emille knowing six would have to ascend to the cannon o help the POA they fired warning shots to get him agitated so the Fight would be more worthy for the most part.

emille dieing we all new emile was up on himself from visigrad to now he would still be cocky for the most part,


anyway thats my look on things.


[Edited on 12.18.2010 6:59 PM PST]

  • 12.18.2010 6:56 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

RE: Alf and Beowolfe

Legends is by no stretch of the imagination, 'Cannon'. Don't even dare trying to justify it as being such. You will be shot down.

These Gen Three Spartans seem to suffer a lot at their lack of 'situational awareness' :D

Of the ways in which the Gen III's all died? They were never as good, nor were they intended to be as good, as Halsey's Spartans. Corners were cut in the program and they were intended to be a cheaper, faster, more expendable resource than their SII counterparts. Frankly, they're not even shadows of the SII's.

As for the cannon, clearly Alf and several others in this thread are not long time fans of the series. They don't seem to realise how much passion, time and effort has gone into deciphering the cannon of Halo. Hours, Days, Weeks, Months and Years have passed before your opinion on the Cannon of Halo. Be aware of what people who put the full ten years [and for Marathon fans, 16 years] in, have done. We know the cannon. Don't tell us we are whining and should be happy with little fixes to a big problem in the story universe and don't try and plug it with sub-standard rubbish media the likes of Halo Legends. Don't take it personally, just consider who it is you're preaching to :)

  • 12.18.2010 6:58 PM PDT


Posted by: spartan120
RE: Alf and Beowolfe

Legends is by no stretch of the imagination, 'Cannon'. Don't even dare trying to justify it as being such. You will be shot down.

These Gen Three Spartans seem to suffer a lot at their lack of 'situational awareness' :D

Of the ways in which the Gen III's all died? They were never as good, nor were they intended to be as good, as Halsey's Spartans. Corners were cut in the program and they were intended to be a cheaper, faster, more expendable resource than their SII counterparts. Frankly, they're not even shadows of the SII's.

As for the cannon, clearly Alf and several others in this thread are not long time fans of the series. They don't seem to realise how much passion, time and effort has gone into deciphering the cannon of Halo. Hours, Days, Weeks, Months and Years have passed before your opinion on the Cannon of Halo. Be aware of what people who put the full ten years [and for Marathon fans, 16 years] in, have done. We know the cannon. Don't tell us we are whining and should be happy with little fixes to a big problem in the story universe and don't try and plug it with sub-standard rubbish media the likes of Halo Legends. Don't take it personally, just consider who it is you're preaching to :)
ive been into halo canon since CE 2001, I just see how it fits instead of hissy fitting about it. and i have played bungies classics just to put out their marathon although i played it before halo was fun, hmm mayby i should replay it

  • 12.18.2010 7:02 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: Alf stewert
ive been into halo canon since CE 2001, I just see how it fits instead of hissy fitting about it. and i have played bungies classics just to put out their marathon although i played it before halo was fun, hmm mayby i should replay it


Point taken :) Its hard to understand how passionate we are though, so I can see how looks like we're whinging, but if you return to the first pages of the thread, you might understand a bit better :) The game is fun, the story is the problem.

NOTE: Halo Reach has the most discrepancies of all Halo games [With exception of Halo Wars]

[Edited on 12.18.2010 7:11 PM PST]

  • 12.18.2010 7:08 PM PDT


Posted by: spartan120

Posted by: Alf stewert
ive been into halo canon since CE 2001, I just see how it fits instead of hissy fitting about it. and i have played bungies classics just to put out their marathon although i played it before halo was fun, hmm mayby i should replay it


Point taken :) Its hard to understand how passionate we are though, so I can see how looks like we're whinging, but if you return to the first pages of the thread, you might understand a bit better :) The game is fun, the story is the problem.

NOTE: Halo Reach has the most discrepancies of all Halo games [With exception of Halo Wars]
I actually was the same thing but then i realised mayby I should recheck it all lol I read halseys journal and reread the 2001 FOR so I did lol but now ill reread the new reissue of it to finally make a descision on what i did

( I am aware theres not much difference but hey th art in it looks great :P) also i say we wait for the reissue of First strike perhaps when it's out we can get more of a insight............. or bungie can give us campaign DLC... :P

  • 12.18.2010 7:15 PM PDT
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  • user homepage:

"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: Alf stewert
I actually was the same thing but then i realised mayby I should recheck it all lol I read halseys journal and reread the 2001 FOR so I did lol but now ill reread the new reissue of it to finally make a descision on what i did

( I am aware theres not much difference but hey th art in it looks great :P) also i say we wait for the reissue of First strike perhaps when it's out we can get more of a insight............. or bungie can give us campaign DLC... :P


Ah yes, the art was tops :D As an artist myself, I really appreciated it as source material. The journal was fine [Because it was Nylund who wrote it :D] but there were still issues. Campaign DLC might be nice though. 343 are bad for re-issuing the novels too. It's a very cheap and nasty trick.

  • 12.18.2010 7:26 PM PDT

Hello! If have anything cool dealing with the Halo series, be sure to post to my youtube channel and I'll give you some feedback and try to make it famouse! I forge. My real gamertag is xYuMMy PiLLoWx. It is a sad, long, pitaful stoy about how I got it. Don't laugh to much.

I am a big fan of roosterteeth and all things related to forge. I'm still kindof a nOOb when it comes to really forging something complex like and invasion gametype.

Unfortunatly, Everything he stated that concerned Ghosts of Onyx and its spartans was true. I read the book.

Please note that all but 2 spartans survived and the Alpha's did not actually lose cohesion: they just had an unexected amount of casualities and completed that mission as planned.

The 2 spartans that survived actually got to their radio operated thingy and called for help after they nearly drowned in an ocean of vast proportion.

  • 12.18.2010 8:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: topperharley
Emile's death was badly scripted because;
a) Why didn't he shoot the phantom down with the rail gun?
b) Who was firing the plasma turret at 6, worst aim ever, of all time.
c) Zealot elites x6, spartan x1, why are they moving so slowly? Its comically bad timing.
d) Zealot elite allows himself to be stabbed very predicatbly in the neck. They are hard as nails, it was a cutscene on easy difficulty!
I know errors exist on other Halo games and in any game for that matter, but Reach felt illogical, uninspiring and just plain badly thought out. Proof, scenes like this.
I should say however, i really like the the fee of the game, the movements and i enjoy battling the AI, my issue is with canon/story driven failures.
did you miss the part were the mac was aimed at the cruiser did you miss the part were the phantom sped right through to emille hell do you not remember how slow the mac is to move?

and a stab to the neck can kill and elite his shields are down and the damage cause by loss of blood can and will kill a elite that and perhaps emille stabbed the elite more on the ground.

Emille was occupied with the crusier enough to not notice another elite behind him his suit may have been damaged at this point of the game.

I'd thought that his arguments, although not complete, would be sufficient to prove my point...but looks like I'll have to add my own...
So the MAC was aimed at the cruiser, and let's assume that Emile was not able to turn it to destroy the phantom there were still plenty of stupid things in the short cutscene...
-Why did none of the Pelican pilots seem to have realized that the phantom was there? there was no "Noble 4 (or Captain Keyes), we have an incoming phantom, approaching fast" or whatever. Let me remind you that you can actually see that phantom coming in the cutscene itself.
-When the phantom did show up, why did the pelicans not engage it? Granted, the first pelican (which was the escort, supposed to be on guard) was taken out fast because it did not shoot at the phantom as it appeared, instead, it faced a completely wrong direction. That still doesn't change the fact that the pelican carrying Keyes did not engage the phantom at any point.
-Why did the phantom change its target from the pelicans to Noble six? The pelican is obviously a much larger threat.
-Why did Noble six just crouch there? a well trained soldier would have tried to do something; get to cover, run to avoid the plasma bolts, or even just warn Emile. None of these happened.
-The covenant phantom just left after dropping off the two zealots. Why didn't it stick around to make sure the job was done? Why didn't it engage the pelican and Noble six? For that matter, why didn't the pelican engage the phantom?
-Emile was frking slow. He definitely took his time killing the first elite, something that should not happen in a clearly hostile area. The entire sequence of stand up-aim-pump-shotgun-shoot took way too long. Why didn't he pump the shotgun as he aimed?
-And then he proceeded to fail by saying "who's next?" to the dead body of the elite instead of looking around for more danger, not checking his motion sensor, since he was caught off-guard by the second zealot.
-At the point when the second elite showed up, he again showed the skills and agility of a standard marine instead of an augmented super-soldier. First, he was not aware of the elite's presence, despite the lists of clues he would have had, then, when it growled, he did not even dive away, turn around, or anything. He lets himself get stabbed.

So there you go...a list of things that didn't make sense in one single cutscene because Bungie couldn't spare some time making sure the cutscenes were logically constructed. By the way, saying emile's armor may have been damaged doesn't make it true. For all we know, it wasn't, as we didn't see it happen. Saying that the armor was damaged has no proof; only speculation.

Enter button please learn to use it. anyway hmm lets see a planets the pilots lived on being destroyed and a cruiser coming in to destroy them would make anyone edgy the first pelican was killed because it wasnt facing the same way as the phantom it was facing the Autumn Why? we can Assume that it was looking out for cruisers to see if any were coming from the other side of the autumn it was occupied by this in which it would obviously get destroyed and as they had the package it started moving towards the Autumn then got shot down it was in a hurry to get back to the POA.

The pelican couldnt engage it was on a time limit a small window to escape why spend time fighting a phantom which could take you out when you got something that could end a war? God hopes your not in charge of a humanity saving feat we would all die.

the phantom had Elites on board they most likely wanted a worthy kill so they left the pelican and killed emille knowing six would have to ascend to the cannon o help the POA they fired warning shots to get him agitated so the Fight would be more worthy for the most part.

emille dieing we all new emile was up on himself from visigrad to now he would still be cocky for the most part,


anyway thats my look on things.

I seriously don't understand how you can convince yourself of these things...and btw, a list is a list no matter how many enters I press, it would have just made the thread even longer.

So let's first look at the overview of what you said here. Most of it is based on assumptions, and very narrow ones at that...

The pilots of the first pelican were probably edgy, but I don't see how that makes a difference. they being edgy doesn't stop their role from being the escort-the one looking out for hostiles that could cause immediate harm to the captain of the ship. (who shouldn't be there...)

You assume that the pelican is trying to see if any covenant ships are coming from the other side of the PoA. Well, that's an assumption, and a poorly based one at that. From its angle, the pelican wouldn't be able to see past the PoA any more than Keyes or Noble Six would have. The POA have sensors and cameras too, and its crew would have known if a ship was coming from that direction. As well, even if the pelican DOES see a covenant ship, what the hell could it do? What can anyone do? The MAC gun isn't facing the right way if the covenant ship was to come from that direction anyways, and it wouldn't have saved the PoA from getting destroyed.

Then the next part is just plain stupid. Let me remind you that the phantom can be seen approaching the area, and with all their sensors and directions they covered, they still somehow managed to miss it. Again, the escort failed its job. Why would it leave for the PoA before Keyes's pelican does?

The pelican had a time limit, true, but that isn't saying much. The phantom left as soon as they dropped off the two zealots, and the pelican had plenty of time to engage the phantom as the zealots were killing Emile. Remember in Halo 3 where a pelican easily destroyed 2 phantoms? Why wouldn't they have done that? As big a threat to the pelican as the phantom was, why would you risk having it around? What if the phantom decided to destroy the second pelican? A dead captain and a lost relic is so much better than a few seconds spent on destroying a threat, right? And at this point I should mention too that it's retarded that the phantom did not attack the second pelican...why would they just leave if it was so easy to destroy a pelican?

I don't understand your statements about the zealots and the worthy kill analogy, but if they knew that noble 6 would take over the MAC gun and destroy the cruiser, why the hell would they let him live? And wtf? firing shots to agitate him? Either way, I'm pretty sure they'd prefer destroying an entire ship AND kill Six than to just get one "worthy kill".

Everyone know that Emile is cocky, but Spartans are not driven by emotions, and I fail to see how being cocky would have reduced him to having the same skills as a normal marine. He had plenty of time in the cutscene, yet he still failed to anticipate and counter the zealots. Bungie had a million ways to humanize Spartans, and they chose the easiest one: Making them weak.

And you still didn't counter all of my points, and the ones you addressed you gave your opinions on what happened, not exactly the logic behind why those things happened.

Ps. Before you decide to start the grammar -blam!- fight, maybe you should fix your transitions and punctuations. It took me several readings to understand what you're saying.





  • 12.18.2010 8:45 PM PDT



I seriously don't understand how you can convince yourself of these things...and btw, a list is a list no matter how many enters I press, it would have just made the thread even longer.

So let's first look at the overview of what you said here. Most of it is based on assumptions, and very narrow ones at that...

The pilots of the first pelican were probably edgy, but I don't see how that makes a difference. they being edgy doesn't stop their role from being the escort-the one looking out for hostiles that could cause immediate harm to the captain of the ship. (who shouldn't be there...)

You assume that the pelican is trying to see if any covenant ships are coming from the other side of the PoA. Well, that's an assumption, and a poorly based one at that. From its angle, the pelican wouldn't be able to see past the PoA any more than Keyes or Noble Six would have. The POA have sensors and cameras too, and its crew would have known if a ship was coming from that direction. As well, even if the pelican DOES see a covenant ship, what the hell could it do? What can anyone do? The MAC gun isn't facing the right way if the covenant ship was to come from that direction anyways, and it wouldn't have saved the PoA from getting destroyed.

Then the next part is just plain stupid. Let me remind you that the phantom can be seen approaching the area, and with all their sensors and directions they covered, they still somehow managed to miss it. Again, the escort failed its job. Why would it leave for the PoA before Keyes's pelican does?

The pelican had a time limit, true, but that isn't saying much. The phantom left as soon as they dropped off the two zealots, and the pelican had plenty of time to engage the phantom as the zealots were killing Emile. Remember in Halo 3 where a pelican easily destroyed 2 phantoms? Why wouldn't they have done that? As big a threat to the pelican as the phantom was, why would you risk having it around? What if the phantom decided to destroy the second pelican? A dead captain and a lost relic is so much better than a few seconds spent on destroying a threat, right? And at this point I should mention too that it's retarded that the phantom did not attack the second pelican...why would they just leave if it was so easy to destroy a pelican?

I don't understand your statements about the zealots and the worthy kill analogy, but if they knew that noble 6 would take over the MAC gun and destroy the cruiser, why the hell would they let him live? And wtf? firing shots to agitate him? Either way, I'm pretty sure they'd prefer destroying an entire ship AND kill Six than to just get one "worthy kill".

Everyone know that Emile is cocky, but Spartans are not driven by emotions, and I fail to see how being cocky would have reduced him to having the same skills as a normal marine. He had plenty of time in the cutscene, yet he still failed to anticipate and counter the zealots. Bungie had a million ways to humanize Spartans, and they chose the easiest one: Making them weak.

And you still didn't counter all of my points, and the ones you addressed you gave your opinions on what happened, not exactly the logic behind why those things happened.

Ps. Before you decide to start the grammar -blam!- fight, maybe you should fix your transitions and punctuations. It took me several readings to understand what you're saying.





Much better spacing :) anyway my points still stand but lets reclear some up shall we.

The pelican may off done other things while protecting keyes perhaps not looking out for cruisers but perhaps it was their to see if any of the scarabs would fire upon them ( have a look down on the ground theres scarabs fighting everywere) as soon as keyes Acknoweldged he had the package the pelican sped off trying to get back into safety of the POA the pilot and crew wanted off reach Fast! the phantom then attacks the pelican and destroys it.

Why not keyes pelican? many assumptions can be used such as the elites wanting to destroy emille on the Mac since he was a priority and considering keyes was busy and the pelican wasnt facing them they attacked the oher giving a opening to speed through.

Or mayby they did it so the cruiser can kill the POA perhaps the elites new what keyes had was important and knew keyes pelican woudnt attack the phantom so they let him go to his ship so when they killed Emille and nobel 6 the cruiser could destroy the ship that spawned the many demons (FOR reference here with red team and chiefs team) or perhaps the elites had a stronger goal Kill the demons and stop use of the Mac gun. which is why it sped to the mac to kill Emille who is cocky and that was always his downfall remember he's a spartan 3 not 2 the 3's had different augamations and training
so emotions are more present with them than 2's (which have emotions).

the whole agitate method is possible elites thirst for the fight killing a demon on the verge would be honarable so why woudnt they fire warning shots to agitate and give the elites time to kill Emille? After emille Dies there's a fight towards the Mac with these Elites. the elites new that six would have to make his way upto the Mac to save the POA.


if not clear enough i Will keep going :)
oh and I am aware i didnt answer all your questions but thats because I dont care if your not up to looking on how it can act or be then Fine

[Edited on 12.18.2010 9:32 PM PST]

  • 12.18.2010 9:20 PM PDT
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your just plain stubborn. Your arguments are based entirely on assumptions and have absolutely no factual proof. No matter what is said, you will just argue that somehow all of your points fit.
Can you please, for the sake of this thread, pop, the Halo Reach disc in, and play that cutscene. At the same time, can you have all of the points that are in debate in your head. Can you seriously say this looks like a solid story driven scene with a battle between advanced aircraft, weaponry and super soldiers. I mean, what was noble 6 doing, he had a DMR? not even a shot fired. It's just flawed, in so many ways.
There are many issues with the other cutscenes too. We dont need to go there, but try this one, how does Carter get life threatening injuries while flying the pelican to POA? there isn't even a broken window on the pelican!? The banshee's firing in behind? why has he been mortally wounded and six/Emile not a scratch? There wasnt even a burn in the back of the Carter's chair, it makes no sense and there is no logic, unless we just start picking things out of thin air to make it fit. Well that's not canon or solid story telling, it's just your imagination. That's cool, but don't argue that this all somehow works.
Ive followed every bit of the Halo universe and even accepted Halo Legends as a bit of (non-canon) fun, why not, there's kids out there who would love this stuff, that's cool. But when Reach provided a weak story, weak characters terribly orchestrated cutscene's, i mean, this is the games, the gospel of what the story arc is all about, it just got silly.

Hey, the music is a masterpiece though.

  • 12.18.2010 10:03 PM PDT


Posted by: topperharley
your just plain stubborn. Your arguments are based entirely on assumptions and have absolutely no factual proof. No matter what is said, you will just argue that somehow all of your points fit.
Can you please, for the sake of this thread, pop, the Halo Reach disc in, and play that cutscene. At the same time, can you have all of the points that are in debate in your head. Can you seriously say this looks like a solid story driven scene with a battle between advanced aircraft, weaponry and super soldiers. I mean, what was noble 6 doing, he had a DMR? not even a shot fired. It's just flawed, in so many ways.
There are many issues with the other cutscenes too. We dont need to go there, but try this one, how does Carter get life threatening injuries while flying the pelican to POA? there isn't even a broken window on the pelican!? The banshee's firing in behind? why has he been mortally wounded and six/Emile not a scratch? There wasnt even a burn in the back of the Carter's chair, it makes no sense and there is no logic, unless we just start picking things out of thin air to make it fit. Well that's not canon or solid story telling, it's just your imagination. That's cool, but don't argue that this all somehow works.
Ive followed every bit of the Halo universe and even accepted Halo Legends as a bit of (non-canon) fun, why not, there's kids out there who would love this stuff, that's cool. But when Reach provided a weak story, weak characters terribly orchestrated cutscene's, i mean, this is the games, the gospel of what the story arc is all about, it just got silly.

Hey, the music is a masterpiece though.

I am not stubborn yes i think on how it fits but thats the beauty of how the scenes are made and yes the music is epic beyond belief. and the carter thing well thats easy bungie didnt add the scorched seat :P and i have the cut scenes with me as i did all this.... Actually their is a small black hole on the seat were carters hit and were the other individual plasma Hit but I am just putting that out there


[Edited on 12.18.2010 10:19 PM PST]

  • 12.18.2010 10:16 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.

Actually, no, your points don't stand. As Topperharley said, your points are all assumptions that have no base from actual proofs, and that pretty much makes everything you said that followed a "maybe" or "assume" null. The situations you proposed are possible, (so is just about everything, by your standard) but by the addition of logic, it comes through as improbable.

I have to say that I find this amusing. Your counters are becoming weaker and more far-fetched, and yet you're somehow becoming more confident of your assumptions. I'm not the one needing the explanations here, you are. With that said, let's take a look at your speculations.

The first pelican was an escort. Do you understand what that means? They are supposed to look out for ANY sort of danger, starting from those that are more immediate to those that are not. At where they were, that means they should be looking out for enemy aircraft and possible hostiles coming from behind Emile. Given the height that they were at, if you pay attention to the cliff, the scarabs are unlikely to be shooting at them from beneath them, and since they're blocked off from where the previously-seen scarabs where, they had little worry about those scarabs attacking either.

Let me remind you again, that the first pelican is AN ESCORT. That means that it does not leave for safety before its VIP, aka Keyes. So why did the pilots decide to leave? To expose their captain to potential danger with no back-up? It doesn't matter how much they wanted off Reach, they had a duty to protect the Captain of the ship. Going ahead would only have been suitable if there had been 2 escorts, then one would go in front and the other behind.

The heavy auto cannon on the Phantom can turn 360 degrees, clearly shown when it fired at Six. They could have easily done the same to Keyes' pelican. I'm not talking about before the phantom dropped off the zealots and took Emile out, I'm talking about after. Why did it just leave? A sensible operation plan would have been to drop off the zealots and stick around to make sure that the MAC is not operational when the cruiser is in range. After all, there were two high-threat targets: A demon, and a pelican with enough firepower to knock the phantom out, not to mention could drop off soldiers to retake the MAC.

Everything you wrote about the elites knowing is invalid. You have no way of knowing what they know or wanted to do. But we can be sure that they know the pelican is hostile, and they know that the demon is strong, so why would they leave? And also, why would they know if the Spartan IIs came from PoA?

Spartan IIIs are not the same as Spartan IIs, that much is obvious, but as I've repeatedly said, Emile showed the same discipline and skill levels of a normal soldier with no augmentations and not wearing one of the most advanced power armour available to UNSC. His cockiness made him say "Who's next?", but why does he take so long to kill the first zealot? Why doesn't he react AT ALL to the growl of another zealot behind him?

I still do not know what the hell you're talking about with the agitating nonsense. The zealots would kill Emile regardless of whether the phantom suppressed Six with covering fire. Again, the zealots wouldn't have known for sure that Six would go to the gun, though they did have reason to believe that he might. However, the presence of those elites is more likely a deployment to keep the MAC offline rather than to specifically kill Six. Either way, this point is null as it does not explain why the phantom just left when it could have helped the elites gun Six down.

I can guarantee you that you have not put nearly as much time thinking about these things as I have. From day one I'd been trying to make sense of this abomination of story-conflict. But I don't need baseless assumptions, I need logical, sensible reasons.

This whole argument is just my way of showing how in one single cutscene there are so many logical problems. Bungie had about 3 years to make the game, and yet it seems they only put about a year's worth of effort into the storyline, which is actually one of the hardest things they needed to accomplish, as a prequel is one of those things that will only do well if they get it "right". Well, long story short, they didn't. Not for most of those who actually spend time studying the story.
There could have been so many things that would have made the campaign experience so much more immersible, and yet they decide instead to spend their time making useless permutations of MP armor so the players feel "connected" to their personal Spartan. I repeat, by screwing around with previously established canon, they messed themselves up more than if they'd just followed it.

Ps. You're either stubborn or ignorant. Pick one.






  • 12.19.2010 12:27 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe
Actually, no, your points don't stand. As Topperharley said, your points are all assumptions that have no base from actual proofs, and that pretty much makes everything you said that followed a "maybe" or "assume" null. The situations you proposed are possible, (so is just about everything, by your standard) but by the addition of logic, it comes through as improbable.

I have to say that I find this amusing. Your counters are becoming weaker and more far-fetched, and yet you're somehow becoming more confident of your assumptions. I'm not the one needing the explanations here, you are. With that said, let's take a look at your speculations.

The first pelican was an escort. Do you understand what that means? They are supposed to look out for ANY sort of danger, starting from those that are more immediate to those that are not. At where they were, that means they should be looking out for enemy aircraft and possible hostiles coming from behind Emile. Given the height that they were at, if you pay attention to the cliff, the scarabs are unlikely to be shooting at them from beneath them, and since they're blocked off from where the previously-seen scarabs where, they had little worry about those scarabs attacking either.

Let me remind you again, that the first pelican is AN ESCORT. That means that it does not leave for safety before its VIP, aka Keyes. So why did the pilots decide to leave? To expose their captain to potential danger with no back-up? It doesn't matter how much they wanted off Reach, they had a duty to protect the Captain of the ship. Going ahead would only have been suitable if there had been 2 escorts, then one would go in front and the other behind.

The heavy auto cannon on the Phantom can turn 360 degrees, clearly shown when it fired at Six. They could have easily done the same to Keyes' pelican. I'm not talking about before the phantom dropped off the zealots and took Emile out, I'm talking about after. Why did it just leave? A sensible operation plan would have been to drop off the zealots and stick around to make sure that the MAC is not operational when the cruiser is in range. After all, there were two high-threat targets: A demon, and a pelican with enough firepower to knock the phantom out, not to mention could drop off soldiers to retake the MAC.

Everything you wrote about the elites knowing is invalid. You have no way of knowing what they know or wanted to do. But we can be sure that they know the pelican is hostile, and they know that the demon is strong, so why would they leave? And also, why would they know if the Spartan IIs came from PoA?

Spartan IIIs are not the same as Spartan IIs, that much is obvious, but as I've repeatedly said, Emile showed the same discipline and skill levels of a normal soldier with no augmentations and not wearing one of the most advanced power armour available to UNSC. His cockiness made him say "Who's next?", but why does he take so long to kill the first zealot? Why doesn't he react AT ALL to the growl of another zealot behind him?

I still do not know what the hell you're talking about with the agitating nonsense. The zealots would kill Emile regardless of whether the phantom suppressed Six with covering fire. Again, the zealots wouldn't have known for sure that Six would go to the gun, though they did have reason to believe that he might. However, the presence of those elites is more likely a deployment to keep the MAC offline rather than to specifically kill Six. Either way, this point is null as it does not explain why the phantom just left when it could have helped the elites gun Six down.

I can guarantee you that you have not put nearly as much time thinking about these things as I have. From day one I'd been trying to make sense of this abomination of story-conflict. But I don't need baseless assumptions, I need logical, sensible reasons.

This whole argument is just my way of showing how in one single cutscene there are so many logical problems. Bungie had about 3 years to make the game, and yet it seems they only put about a year's worth of effort into the storyline, which is actually one of the hardest things they needed to accomplish, as a prequel is one of those things that will only do well if they get it "right". Well, long story short, they didn't. Not for most of those who actually spend time studying the story.
There could have been so many things that would have made the campaign experience so much more immersible, and yet they decide instead to spend their time making useless permutations of MP armor so the players feel "connected" to their personal Spartan. I repeat, by screwing around with previously established canon, they messed themselves up more than if they'd just followed it.

Ps. You're either stubborn or ignorant. Pick one.






I could say many things to this But All I got is Ahhhhh I am getting on a Nerve arnt I? and Go ahead think what you want I rather think on how it works than be a baby and winge about it. Please put away your pacifier and Grow up :)

  • 12.19.2010 11:26 PM PDT

Banned and proud of it.


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Computerexpert3
Hmm...

Am I the only one who notices that there is only a grand total of FIVE canon errors?


There are many more errors, but these are the biggest ones, and these ones rule entire books worth of canon worthless


oh sorry lol

  • 12.19.2010 11:43 PM PDT
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* Alf stewert
T-R-O-L-L

  • 12.20.2010 6:07 AM PDT