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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: topperharley
* Alf stewert
T-R-O-L-L


Agreed, contemplating reporting all his posts as nonsensical spam... Nothing he has said is in any way logical, nor has it added to the discussion in any way. He's just retarding the intelligent discussion. When he posts again, I suggest we just ignore him.

Also, retarding was used as a synonym for stopping or halting.

Oh, and 1000th reply. Go me ^^

[Edited on 12.20.2010 7:10 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2010 6:46 AM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert

[/quote] I could say many things to this But All I got is Ahhhhh I am getting on a Nerve arnt I? and Go ahead think what you want I rather think on how it works than be a baby and winge about it. Please put away your pacifier and Grow up :)


Translation: "I don't have anything to argue with but I'm going to pretend anyways". Buddy, judging from your style of writing AND the content itself, you're the one who should be growing up. You want to imagine how things can happen? Good for you. But until you have any solid proof to support your assumptions, NONE of your speculations add any value to this discussion. That's how a debate works.
Bungie disappointed with the story, that is a known fact to those who are well-versed in the halo universe, so stop kissing their asses and actually contribute to the discussion with FACTS.

  • 12.20.2010 9:25 AM PDT

Posted by: privet caboose
Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.

Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.
Noble Team is from spartans pulled from their company before they died

  • 12.20.2010 8:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert

[/quote] I could say many things to this But All I got is Ahhhhh I am getting on a Nerve arnt I? and Go ahead think what you want I rather think on how it works than be a baby and winge about it. Please put away your pacifier and Grow up :)


Translation: "I don't have anything to argue with but I'm going to pretend anyways". Buddy, judging from your style of writing AND the content itself, you're the one who should be growing up. You want to imagine how things can happen? Good for you. But until you have any solid proof to support your assumptions, NONE of your speculations add any value to this discussion. That's how a debate works.
Bungie disappointed with the story, that is a known fact to those who are well-versed in the halo universe, so stop kissing their asses and actually contribute to the discussion with FACTS.
fair point but I am new to debating video game universes I am more of a debater of the page bill hicks was on.

[Edited on 12.20.2010 9:17 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2010 9:15 PM PDT

Actually there is reasonable answer for all this. One word.


ONI.


Mainly because they could have had a hand in all these, cannon probably just hasn't stated it yet.

  • 12.23.2010 1:56 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: Mr Sm1ley
Actually there is reasonable answer for all this. One word.


ONI.


Mainly because they could have had a hand in all these, cannon probably just hasn't stated it yet.


Oh god please don't use the "I can't be bothered explaining anything with logic or reason so it was OBVIOUSLY an ONI coverup." Why would ONI make Carter suddenly mortally wounded? Or make Emile forget his years of training to die like a derping Walrus? ONI can't cover up everything.

Also, That's four words technically: Office of Naval Intelligence.

  • 12.23.2010 2:03 PM PDT

There are a number of ways Carter could have been wounded the transport of the package to the Autumn.
The elite that killed Emile was probably stealthing so, he probably didn't show on radar. Doesn't necessarily mean that he forgot all of his of training.

[Edited on 12.23.2010 2:33 PM PST]

  • 12.23.2010 2:32 PM PDT

To add on to the POA error, Halo: Reach shows the MC in cryo during takeoff. But that was only an easter egg, so I'm not sure if it counts.

  • 12.23.2010 2:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Mr Sm1ley
There are a number of ways Carter could have been wounded the transport of the package to the Autumn.
The elite that killed Emile was probably stealthing so, he probably didn't show on radar. Doesn't necessarily mean that he forgot all of his of training.

Erm, yea, if what you say is correct and the elite did not show up on the motion sensor, then that is exact proof that Emile forgot his training. If he relied on the motion sensor to tell him where his enemies are, how is he any better than a normal soldier? Go back a few posts and read the list of reasons why Emile's death is illogical.

  • 12.23.2010 11:16 PM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Well he is known for his massive bloodlust so is it so far off to say he got caught up in the moment? Which could happen to anyone really, he just took out an elite point blank right before it stabbed him. He is also shown showing off and talking smack constantly to the enemy to so I see his death as being caused by his character and I find no ploblem with it. In fact it seems to me (this isn't directed towards you btw) that ppl are trying to pick at everything related to the game just because, not that there aren't good reasons to be upset but as it is now its like anything and everything isn't right or good in your eyes. :/

I think some events pan out better then others but (I personally see the mulitplayer maps -not events- as before or after the mission)in the radios it seems the events in TFoR also happen so theres my 2 cents...

On another note: Is it just me or does it seem like all of noble died due to their own faults or causes?

Spoliers - just cause, but if you don't know of the events why are you here?


Jorge: kills himself for the greater good- known for being caring and putting others before him

Kat: Killed do to random sniper - known (at least we're told she is) for lacking situatinal awareness and (to me) implied from media to be very unlucky lol. Though the last point was a joke it still seems that she died according to how her character (someone who focuses on what they're doing is more liking to get popped in the back of the head)

Carter: Kills himself (athought I personally think his death was unneeded but oh well) - He focuses on goals, he also seems to just follow orders and doesn't really go around things to follow them even if they involve going though a crapload of enemies to get there. Although one could say that by the end of the game he kinda did by dropping off six in the canyon. He puts alot of faith in his group to get things done and often (to me) seems like more of a soldier then a leader athough it could be he'd rather put himself to bare the blunt of his orders first instead of letting others get hurt.

Six: Dies (well idk how did you die?)- He goes down fighting which is how his character is. He keeps going (SIIIs are sent on suicide missions so you gotta have some drive as one) and he also doesn't run away if he can help it (I'm guessing thats why we can't just run away).

In fact I wonder how six is pinned down in the first place - I think the Covies had patrols waiting for him everywhere as in appears they were around for the battle below the POA with the spartans (some of whom I think survived. In fact whose to say six died? A woman trapped in another planet in another dimension? Yeah new closure to the regular gamers but that doesn't seem right to me...

Okay enough out of me...

[Edited on 12.24.2010 4:01 AM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 3:59 AM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

BungieHUB

Bungie has stated that all secondary media (books, movies, ex) are non-canon. I do tend to go by the novels, but official canon is the games.

  • 12.24.2010 5:38 AM PDT


Posted by: The Highwayman48
Bungie has stated that all secondary media (books, movies, ex) are non-canon. I do tend to go by the novels, but official canon is the games.
Wrong, Bungie has stated that all secondary media IS canon.

They discussed the possibility of removing certain aspects of the canon, like Boren's Syndrome (which they already did), between other few examples.

But destroying stuff like this? Hey Bungie, a whole novel is based on these events, and you suddenly decide to rewrite your own universe? Despite the fact that they have already established that the novels are canon? There are people who used to like those novels, you know?

  • 12.24.2010 8:02 AM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: L KOLIEAN L
Well he is known for his massive bloodlust so is it so far off to say he got caught up in the moment? Which could happen to anyone really, he just took out an elite point blank right before it stabbed him. He is also shown showing off and talking smack constantly to the enemy to so I see his death as being caused by his character and I find no ploblem with it. In fact it seems to me (this isn't directed towards you btw) that ppl are trying to pick at everything related to the game just because, not that there aren't good reasons to be upset but as it is now its like anything and everything isn't right or good in your eyes. :/


I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the Spartan IIIs, however...that's the thing, isn't it? What bungie did, whether they intended it or not, is to make the Covenant look strong by making the humans, and including the Spartans, look weak.

It would have been far better to just make the Spartans strong and the covenant stronger. I use the term strong loosely as there could have been millions of ways to have the covenant overcome the Spartans, overwhelming numbers, for example. Would it really have been so hard to just make the game contain battles of a larger scale? Or maybe to have the Spartans feel like super-soldiers instead of just NPCs that are impossible to kill but are pretty much the same as regular npcs?

I'd always been iffy when they announced they wanted to "humanize" the Spartans, but I'd believed that they would do it the way the novels did it, not turn the Spartans into theatrical soldiers. Seriously, what did they have over the normal marines, other than that they have a few extra lines?
I'm sorry to bring this up, but in most CoD games they would have moments that-although scripted-show the main characters to be capable of incredible feats, things that halo Spartans should do.

Yet the closest one to this in Reach is the cutscene at the end of WInter contingency, and that's pretty much the only one.

It just seemed like they spent way more time for MP than the campaign. I mean really, designing the campaign according to the MP maps? What were they thinking?

[Edited on 12.24.2010 11:12 AM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 11:12 AM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Yeah idk man, though you and me are on the same page when it comes to that stuff. One of the reasons I love COD is that they have all those moments where you feel like your part of a huge battle and for for me, being I tend to put myself into the character and invest into them as if its my life on the line, that happens to be a big hit. Its those showy moments that hit hard with me driving me forward, that and digital bloodlust lol. But fir the same reason I love COD for havng those moments I love halo for not having them at times- though it would've been awsome to see the other spartans use diffrent AAs (Emile + camo = Epic idea).
Take CE for instance, that game lacked all the high action fancy expolsions and fights but made up for it by easily drawing in the player as it goes on and on. From the start your given a sense of rushing around before slowing for the op in TaR then you move at a slower pace building up to 343GS where it becomes a huge mad dash to survive all the way to the end of the maw -taking a break to feel the impact of E419's death. I think it was those moments that made halo the series it is and over time it lose so of the imoact.

All and all I think reach is a good game, worthy of staying in my xbox for quite abit, but it does lack in some deptments but I do feel bungie did make it feel more like CE in some ways...

[Edited on 12.24.2010 12:18 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 12:16 PM PDT

Go on. Just take a seat. Take a seat, right over there.

I'm sorry. The PoA on Reach can not be canon for me. The fact that Captain keys wasn't even aware of any Covenant presence in the vicinity of Reach until right before they were about to slip space out on their mission to capture the Prophets.

  • 12.24.2010 3:02 PM PDT

Go on. Just take a seat. Take a seat, right over there.

I don't care for "official" canon as much as the books. To me, canon is what YOU take out of it. I'm the one that paid for my Halo Novels. If I want to live in a blissful ignorance as opposed to having a Canon-Raping game define my definition of Halo, then that's my choice. As long as I don't attempt to force others to see things my way.

[Edited on 12.24.2010 3:08 PM PST]

  • 12.24.2010 3:08 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.
It was alluded to in the Halo canon that there were certain members of Alpha company that weren't sent on Operation Prometheus, by Kurt who knew that he would likely suffer from heavy casualties (although probably not expecting 100%).

Reach was invaded on July 24th.
I would argue otherwise. Reach was not invaded on that date, Noble team simply found relatively minor Covenant forces nowhere near a major location. The Fall of Reach (book) doesn't refute that there were no forces on the planet at all.

ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.
In the campaign, there wasn't a serious threat of Earth detection. Noble Team's primary objective was to defend Reach at major choke points and key locations. Scrubbing an entire planet clean of navigational data probably is easier said than done.

Anything I did not quote, I concede. There were some inexplicable errors.

  • 01.02.2011 11:14 AM PDT

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man.
But sooner or later, the man who wins
Is the man who thinks he can.

As per the Alpha Company thing, I don't know if it's accepted as canon or not (ignore this if it isn't) but the Halo Encyclopedia explicitly states several times that that all three hundred members of Alpha Company died. No exceptions.

  • 01.02.2011 12:10 PM PDT
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"YOU,YOU,AND YOU...PANIC. THE REST OF YOU, COME WITH ME"

My god do i love this forum. People who actually love and care about the lore of Halo.

On topic: I personally disregard Halo: Reach as canon for the moment, and until i'm explicitly told that the majority of canon prior to it is wrong i am going to keep disregarding it and play the game as something seperate to the Halo story.

Also, i find the idea of a Super Carrier being undetected and no OBDs to take it out the hardest to grasp.

  • 01.02.2011 8:46 PM PDT

You guys are aware that Halo is fictional, right?

There is no ruining Halo canon.

Halo canon is whatever you want it to be.

The problem is that everybody seems to think everything published for Halo is constructed by absolute truths.

Remember when Cortana was the narrator of those Halo anime episodes? All of that was subjuctive. She was totally off her nut (maybe) so you only take in the overall story, and not the specifics.

Same could be said for authors of other materials on a slightly less extreme scale. How could any of the authors know with absolute certainty what actually happened. They don't, so the fit it in as well as they can. And it usually succeeds.

  • 01.02.2011 9:39 PM PDT


Posted by: TimiderWord8
You guys are aware that Halo is fictional, right?

There is no ruining Halo canon.

Halo canon is whatever you want it to be.

The problem is that everybody seems to think everything published for Halo is constructed by absolute truths.

Remember when Cortana was the narrator of those Halo anime episodes? All of that was subjuctive. She was totally off her nut (maybe) so you only take in the overall story, and not the specifics.

Same could be said for authors of other materials on a slightly less extreme scale. How could any of the authors know with absolute certainty what actually happened. They don't, so the fit it in as well as they can. And it usually succeeds.

Because Halo has established canon, I.E. -blam!- that has happened in previous media.

The books were all written with the consent of Bungie, who have a "Halo Story Bible", that supposedly outlines the information of the entire universe.


Halo DOES have canon, and Bungie needs to state weather TFoR is supposed to be completely disregarded, or give us an explanation as to how everything fits together. Maybe you can just look at "the overall story", but people like me, privet caboose, and god knows how many other in this thread, give a crap about the "small details".

  • 01.02.2011 10:14 PM PDT


Posted by: The Highwayman48
Bungie has stated that all secondary media (books, movies, ex) are non-canon. I do tend to go by the novels, but official canon is the games.

Give me a quote. Now. Because, I've never heard this.

I swear to god, the next person to post this should be shot.

How many times to we need to re-state this?
BUNGIE HAS SAID, FROM THE BEGINNING, THAT ALL BOOKS ARE CANON.

[Edited on 01.02.2011 10:17 PM PST]

  • 01.02.2011 10:17 PM PDT

Posted by: EchoGamer

[quote]Posted by: The Highwayman48
BUNGIE HAS SAID, FROM THE BEGINNING, THAT ALL BOOKS ARE CANON.

Bungie has said that Games overwrite the books.

But hey, who cares what the creator of the franchise says, right?

  • 01.02.2011 10:26 PM PDT
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ZedFish's Opinion on Sgt. Foley.
ZedFish's Forerunner Rickroll.

Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: The Highwayman48
Bungie has stated that all secondary media (books, movies, ex) are non-canon. I do tend to go by the novels, but official canon is the games.

Give me a quote. Now. Because, I've never heard this.

I swear to god, the next person to post this should be shot.

How many times to we need to re-state this?
BUNGIE HAS SAID, FROM THE BEGINNING, THAT ALL BOOKS ARE CANON.
The books area great read, but let's be honest; they're so full of mistakes that I'm surprised that Bungie considers them canon.

Do I enjoy them? Yes.
Do I think that the story they tell are a good addition to halo canon? Yes.
Do they override game? NO.

The only thing that Halo: Reach has contradicted is Nyland's Fall of Reach, which even after a reprint can't get it's dates right. It contradicts itself.

One of the big arguments is "Reach fell in a day, not a month".
What if Nyland blam'd up, again? Ever think of that?

Books = Canon
Games = Canon

When:
Games V. Books, Games = Greater Canon

I trust the most reliable source, so I go by Halo: Reach's dates. Did the events of Fall of Reach happen? Yes. Did they happen at the time Nyland said they did? No. I trust Bungie more.

  • 01.03.2011 3:33 AM PDT