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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

Posted by: Helloyoudie
It is just a game. It may be important, but it is just a game. DEAL WITH CANON ERRORS!!!!!


Yeah, but we care. So go away.

  • 01.18.2011 1:10 PM PDT

"It is the cruelest fate, to have written words that meant well and see them made wicked and unwise. What was meant to encourage life, used instead to justify taking it."

I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.

[Edited on 01.18.2011 3:51 PM PST]

  • 01.18.2011 3:25 PM PDT

Has anyone picked up the new "definitive edition" of First Strike? I've only just started reading but at the beginning of the book they say something about getting a glipse of the slip space crystal in the game Reach. Wasn't that under castle base not sword?

  • 01.18.2011 7:27 PM PDT


Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.
people are still going to boast canon has been brocken :/ but your right in everything you said

  • 01.18.2011 10:49 PM PDT
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  • user homepage:

The errors you highlight have not escaped my notice during my own readings and playthroughs, but I think we can elucidate some of the cloudier sections of the canon. Plus, you seem to enjoy reading.



First, let's discuss the Spartan-III program and Carter's age. The S-III program was a revision/expansion/enhancement of the Spartan-II program. While the training and medical aspects saw great leaps forward after Spartan-II, it was clear that genetic guidelines and age restrictions would have to be slackened dramatically to meet Colonel Ackerson's quota.

This "slackening" of parameters was both a benefit and a detriment to the S-III program; it allowed otherwise unacceptable candidates a chance to become Spartans. This goes two ways: one, ONI was now able to consider candidates who matched the age guidelines, but possessed behavioral/genetic anomalies; and two, they could also consider those who excelled in all genetic/behavioral categories, but were too old according to original guidelines.

I personally believe that the latter applies to Carter. After reading Carter's dossier and Ambrose's letter to Mendez, I am comfortable with my conclusion that Carter could have been eleven years of age when he started the S-III training.

Think about it this way: if ONI was presented with a candidate who not only met all criteria for S-III, but also met the criteria for a Spartan-II, a simple discrepancy like being older than other candidates could actually be an asset, not a detriment. It certainly would be foolish to turn down such an appealing candidate for being too old.



This is a nice time to segue to my next (read: conjectural) conclusion: Carter, Jun, and Emile were not present on the asteroid during OPERATION:Prometheus. Carter, Jun, and Emile, as old as they were relative to other trainees, would have been singled-out for their relative strength and intelligence. I believe that, in a way similar to how Blue Team was formed, Carter became leader of Noble Team early in training. This would have set him and his teammates (Jun and Emile) apart from the rest of Alpha Company (hence their exclusion from Ghosts ). Ackerson would get his Spartans, just not all of them

Thanks to the age of its members, Noble Team would be able to see action years sooner than the rest of Alpha Company. This would ultimately save their lives. By the time Operation:Prometheus was initiated, Noble Team would have already been under the command of Colonel Holland - not Colonel Ackerson - and therefore safe from the inevitable doom of the rest of Alpha Company. In this way, no canon is harmed.



I coud discuss more if you wish, but I especially wanted to provide my input on this particular subject.

  • 01.19.2011 10:25 AM PDT

All of this is rather interesting and is going to take me some time to mill through. Don't know if anyone said this but one way to fix the issues with Noble Team would be to give them their own freakin' book. While it may screw things up more it would possibly settle arguments(like their age and wtf is Jorge doing with them). Then again it might just make it worse.

  • 01.19.2011 2:30 PM PDT

I noticed the lake of MACs and were the Pillar of Autumn should have been but did not pick up the other things, i was having to much fun killing all covie bastards.

I also agree with Renaissance Teen's reasoning for the exclusion of Carter and noble for Alpha.

Bungie would need to shed light on the MACs and Pillar of Autumn.


[Edited on 01.19.2011 3:25 PM PST]

  • 01.19.2011 3:20 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

By George he's done it!
Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.

  • 01.21.2011 11:36 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.


Holy crap your entire post made laugh hard.

-No no no just no.So people wopuldn't notice a supercarrier being blowed up?the entire viery territory is attacked and that is a large part of the planet.
New alexandria was attacked,the covenant fleet arrived after the end of lnos.

And where the hell did you got that quote from?Source please?

-Cloaking system?Ok now i realise i'm talking with a fanboy.The UNSC,i repeat haven't that kind of tech to put on massive ships.ONI never shares their tech with the UNSC or else Marines would have pulse lasers weapons and power armor.

UNSC can't put energy shields on large ships and they can't put ACTIVE camo on large ships either.You are either a fanboy or just stupid.Prove me that they can do that,the books never showed that,Halo 2 showed that ODP's visible as well
.

The UNSC are to primitive to put that tech on massive ships.


-Um what's Axiom???

Fail epic fail,did you knew that UNSC cruisers can't fly in atmosphere?Only frigates can

There you go,your entire argument is invalid now

And did you knew that autumn was already on the 29th on Reach?

  • 01.21.2011 11:52 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Iam enjoying Halo Reach and revisiting some past Bungie games, iam a big fan of Bungie and their online community.

Although game and novel cannon are different i do agree that these errors should not have happened and the game shouldve stayed true to the history of the novels. Although The Fall Of Reach has now been edited to match the games story timeline. However I do speak with rather limited knowlage having not read many of the books.

  • 01.23.2011 2:52 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.


Holy crap your entire post made laugh hard.

-No no no just no.So people wopuldn't notice a supercarrier being blowed up?the entire viery territory is attacked and that is a large part of the planet.
New alexandria was attacked,the covenant fleet arrived after the end of lnos.

And where the hell did you got that quote from?Source please?

-Cloaking system?Ok now i realise i'm talking with a fanboy.The UNSC,i repeat haven't that kind of tech to put on massive ships.ONI never shares their tech with the UNSC or else Marines would have pulse lasers weapons and power armor.

UNSC can't put energy shields on large ships and they can't put ACTIVE camo on large ships either.You are either a fanboy or just stupid.Prove me that they can do that,the books never showed that,Halo 2 showed that ODP's visible as well
.

The UNSC are to primitive to put that tech on massive ships.


-Um what's Axiom???

Fail epic fail,did you knew that UNSC cruisers can't fly in atmosphere?Only frigates can

There you go,your entire argument is invalid now

And did you knew that autumn was already on the 29th on Reach?
Did you know with the refit The POA called take one helluva beating that of entering and exiting Athsmophere? and did you know halcyon cruisers can fly in athsmophere go look in halo legends origins part 2 in the 8:00 are.

  • 01.23.2011 3:39 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.


Holy crap your entire post made laugh hard.

-No no no just no.So people wopuldn't notice a supercarrier being blowed up?the entire viery territory is attacked and that is a large part of the planet.
New alexandria was attacked,the covenant fleet arrived after the end of lnos.

And where the hell did you got that quote from?Source please?

-Cloaking system?Ok now i realise i'm talking with a fanboy.The UNSC,i repeat haven't that kind of tech to put on massive ships.ONI never shares their tech with the UNSC or else Marines would have pulse lasers weapons and power armor.

UNSC can't put energy shields on large ships and they can't put ACTIVE camo on large ships either.You are either a fanboy or just stupid.Prove me that they can do that,the books never showed that,Halo 2 showed that ODP's visible as well
.

The UNSC are to primitive to put that tech on massive ships.


-Um what's Axiom???

Fail epic fail,did you knew that UNSC cruisers can't fly in atmosphere?Only frigates can

There you go,your entire argument is invalid now

And did you knew that autumn was already on the 29th on Reach?
Did you know with the refit The POA called take one helluva beating that of entering and exiting Athsmophere? and did you know halcyon cruisers can fly in athsmophere go look in halo legends origins part 2 in the 8:00 are.


-What?
-Frankie says that everything seen in this episode in from cortan's ponit of view,she is about to become a rampant AI that means you can't trust the visuals of the episode.Like how the covenant and UNSC teamed up,it never happened.

  • 01.23.2011 6:05 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: kruse93
Although game and novel cannon are different i do agree that these errors should not have happened and the game shouldve stayed true to the history of the novels. Although The Fall Of Reach has now been edited to match the games story timeline. However I do speak with rather limited knowlage having not read many of the books.


The novel wasn't edited to match the game. Not. At. All.

  • 01.23.2011 8:06 AM PDT

"Ah, this is obviously some strange usage of the word 'safe' I haven't heard of."
---
I am a systems operator and administrator on the English Wikipedia. If I ban you there, I had good reason.

Agreed. We can't take "Origins" as proof of anything visually happening.

As to the feasibility of the PoA surviving in an atmosphere: don't quote a freaking Disney-Pixar cartoon, people. While the Autumn does have better-than-most structural integrity, but remember *it's a spaceship*.

When the Star Trek 2009 movie came out, a lot of people cried foul at the USS Enterprise being built on land because it makes little sense. Take the example of a beached whale--the whale suffocates because its mass is not offset by the buoyancy of water. Likewise, a ship made to flit around in a zero-G environment is likely going to fall apart in a serious gravity (atmospheric) situation--hence why most ships cannot.

We just don't know if the PoA can or cannot. There's certainly been no indication the class was ever rated for atmosphere, but then again it was never said in "The Flood" that the ship wasn't going to get off the surface of Halo (it was the fact that it's reactor was fried that decided that--also, Keyes used the word "land" instead of "crash", which suggests it might have been a possible strategy.) Either way its honeycombed reinforcement wouldn't necessarily be the reason it could survive--there would have to be other engineering factors.

The canon issue is that the PoA is on Reach, not necessarily that it's on the ground.

[Edited on 01.23.2011 8:15 AM PST]

  • 01.23.2011 8:14 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: pixelfox
Agreed. We can't take "Origins" as proof of anything visually happening.

As to the feasibility of the PoA surviving in an atmosphere: don't quote a freaking Disney-Pixar cartoon, people. While the Autumn does have better-than-most structural integrity, but remember *it's a spaceship*.

When the Star Trek 2009 movie came out, a lot of people cried foul at the USS Enterprise being built on land because it makes little sense. Take the example of a beached whale--the whale suffocates because its mass is not offset by the buoyancy of water. Likewise, a ship made to flit around in a zero-G environment is likely going to fall apart in a serious gravity (atmospheric) situation--hence why most ships cannot.

We just don't know if the PoA can or cannot. There's certainly been no indication the class was ever rated for atmosphere, but then again it was never said in "The Flood" that the ship wasn't going to get off the surface of Halo (it was the fact that it's reactor was fried that decided that--also, Keyes used the word "land" instead of "crash", which suggests it might have been a possible strategy.) Either way its honeycombed reinforcement wouldn't necessarily be the reason it could survive--there would have to be other engineering factors.

The canon issue is that the PoA is on Reach, not necessarily that it's on the ground.


The real root of the matter is whether or not current canon depicted the Pillar of Autumn participated in the battle over Reach, then docked. Or if the Autumn was refitted on the surface and simply never left. Prior to the reissued First Strike the context of Halo:Reach, Halsey's Journal, and Keyes' message in the new short entry at the end of the reissued Fall of Reach supported the latter to a degree. However,one of the new entries slapped onto the end of the reissued First Strike details Fred's command decisions on Reach after he took the pelican from the Autumn (from space) onto Reach's surface.

That said it's possible the Autumn could be rectonned into being atmosphere capable, but what is curious at this point is how the Autumn managed to touch down after the beating it took from the Covenant ship that had sniped UNSC forces in space.

  • 01.23.2011 8:43 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach


Simple, in ghosts of Onyx, Kurt was thought KIA or MIA, but it was ONI to use him to train the spartan IIIs. Its possible that ONI took Carter, Emile and Jun somehow.

  • 01.23.2011 11:38 AM PDT

""We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up and ruthlessly destroyed. And our answer is at hand."

You should also refer to how if we go with Reach canon then A) The entire Spartan army would have been on Halo or B) There would have been no Red Team when Masterchief returned to Reach in First Strike. Thus making it very unlikely that Master Chief could've returned for Halo 2

  • 01.23.2011 12:16 PM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.


Holy crap your entire post made laugh hard.

-No no no just no.So people wopuldn't notice a supercarrier being blowed up?the entire viery territory is attacked and that is a large part of the planet.
New alexandria was attacked,the covenant fleet arrived after the end of lnos.

And where the hell did you got that quote from?Source please?

-Cloaking system?Ok now i realise i'm talking with a fanboy.The UNSC,i repeat haven't that kind of tech to put on massive ships.ONI never shares their tech with the UNSC or else Marines would have pulse lasers weapons and power armor.

UNSC can't put energy shields on large ships and they can't put ACTIVE camo on large ships either.You are either a fanboy or just stupid.Prove me that they can do that,the books never showed that,Halo 2 showed that ODP's visible as well
.

The UNSC are to primitive to put that tech on massive ships.


-Um what's Axiom???

Fail epic fail,did you knew that UNSC cruisers can't fly in atmosphere?Only frigates can

There you go,your entire argument is invalid now

And did you knew that autumn was already on the 29th on Reach?
Did you know with the refit The POA called take one helluva beating that of entering and exiting Athsmophere? and did you know halcyon cruisers can fly in athsmophere go look in halo legends origins part 2 in the 8:00 are.


-What?
-Frankie says that everything seen in this episode in from cortan's ponit of view,she is about to become a rampant AI that means you can't trust the visuals of the episode.Like how the covenant and UNSC teamed up,it never happened.



- in the book FOR a technician says to captain keyes "the Autumn can take one helluva bashing"
- yes but we dont know whats real or Faked by cortana

  • 01.23.2011 3:49 PM PDT

Wow. I've been playing the Halo series since they were released (the FPS ones at least) and frankly opens a universe that rivals that of the Star Wars franchise. It was only recently I decided to delve further into the world and ordered the books. Fantastic in a word.

I came across this forum as details (slowly at first, then much more rapidly as the book continues) deviates from REACH. I share the disappointment in the game as specifics in the canon branch from tFoR.

Because of my intense (and probably overboard as my roommates say) infatuation with the back story, I have been scouring Halsey's journal, the book, referencing the game, and visiting halopeadian.com

I found the Cortana artical in www.halopedian.com to be the most helpful regarding the seemingly immiscible details in REACH and tFoR.

Found at http://www.halopedian.com/Cortana

The Fall of Reach
At some point before the Battle of Reach, Dr. Halsey separated Cortana into two "fragments". One of these fragments, which contained all of her higher functions and personality, was stationed on board the UNSC Pillar of Autumn, while the other was tasked with mining data from the Forerunner artifact beneath Sword Base. When the Covenant began to glass the planet, Halsey tasked Noble Team with bringing Cortana's fragment to the Pillar of Autumn. Afterward, the two halves were reunited, and Cortana was able to use the data collected from the artifact.

I found it also beneficial to view the battle of Reach at the same website.

Sorry for beating information into those that know these specifics into those that know it all already, but as a new detailed fan it just felt good to put it in writing. I know there are numerous timeline errors (such as the whole thing happening in 2 hrs in tFoR and in a month in the game), but I'm willing to put those aside as long as it is relatively explained with the two fragments.

Sorry for the length.
Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.

What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.

"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

And the biggest whine of them all...

"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.
2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.
3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.
4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.
5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.
6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)
7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.


____________________________________________________________


Everybody happy? Good. To those who weren't all "tl;dr", help yourself to the cookies on the table.

  • 01.25.2011 8:40 PM PDT

WUH-BLAM!


Posted by: privet caboose


Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

At the time that the mission to capture a Covenant Cruiser, head to the homeworld, and capture a prophet if possible was planned/about to be set into motion, they didn't know of the invasion force that was coming.
They were about to jump when the invasion force arrived.

  • 01.25.2011 8:50 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: BULLETinURface6

Posted by: privet caboose


Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

At the time that the mission to capture a Covenant Cruiser, head to the homeworld, and capture a prophet if possible was planned/about to be set into motion, they didn't know of the invasion force that was coming.
They were about to jump when the invasion force arrived.


Except the beginning of the fleet arrived on August 14th now instead of the 30th. Unless you want to move EVERYTHING told in TFoR to August 14th, in which case the entire battle should have ended on the 14th. If not, what were the Spartan IIs and the PoA doing during that time?

  • 01.25.2011 9:19 PM PDT

well thats intresting but, you know... in the end bungie creates cannon and can change it whenever they want ;)

  • 01.25.2011 9:23 PM PDT


Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd
I'm gonna settle this for everybody.

"Reach wasn't invaded until August 30, 2552! Where's the Cole Protocol?!"

Winter Contingency was declared, which put the Cole Protocol on hold until it had to be put into action. They couldn't risk losing all the data they had on Reach so soon.


Okay, are you pulling this out of your ass, or...what? Because, to my knowledge, this is never stated in the game, or in any of the books. Regardless, this is an extremely small detail, but you're going to need to provide a source for where you got your info on the Winter Contengincy. The only information I can provide is from the bonus content in the reissue of TFoR, where specific orders are given to all ONI agents that Cole Protocol mandates are in effect.


What happened from July 23rd - August 29 can best be explained from a quote from Signs:

"They send out a scouting force, to check things out. [To] make sure everything's A-OK,"
"For what?"
"...For the rest of them,"

ONI kept things quiet. They only invaded a certain area of Reach. On 8/30/2552, they attacked the entire planet with full forces.


Right, cause M. Night Shamylan movies are extremely relevant to Halo. Regardless, your quote is self defeating; in Signs, everyone -blam!- knows the aliens are there, and that was a SMALL scale invasion with a few foot soldiers, Reach's "scouting force" consisted of at least two Covenant Frigates and gorram Supercarrier(which was ~27KM long.) That Supercarrier could carry just as many troops as Regret's ships could in H2. Not. A. Scouting. Force.


"How do they have MJOLNIR Mk. V if nobody got it until August 26?!"

Listen, Noble Team was an elite fighting force. ONI gave them the best weaponry and equipment possible.

Yes, and the SPARTAN II's are not at an elite fighting force. Obviously.

"What's MJOLNIR Mk. VI doing in the armory?!"

Relax. It's only a prototype.

This doesn't even need to be adressed, for the same reason there aren't a bunch of SIII's running around killing eachother in Emile's helmet.


"Alpha Company was wiped out in Operation Prometheus! What's up with Carter, Emile, and Jun?!"

Carter (along with Kat, for the record) was pulled out of Alpha Company and put into a SIII group called Blue Team. Jun and Emile were probably pulled out too, like Jorge was pulled out of the SIIs.

Fine, but when it comes to the other SIII teams (Echo and Gauntlet, probably more) the list of SIII's being ONI'd into existance is getting long, and making less sense.


"Where were the SMACs?!"

They could have had a cloaking system. They've been fighting the Covenant for 27 years. I think that gave them some time to reverse engineer ship-designed cloaking devices. Who knows what ONI was capable of?

Are you kidding me? Are you being funny? You're going to tell me, that, first of all, the UNSC somehow found a way to make their SMACs invisible anti-son-of-a--blam!- machines, and the Covenenat STILL got around them? Aside from the fact that you just pulled that out of your ass, it makes no sense. Why weren't the SMACs at Earth cloaked? Why didn't the PoA get cloaking? Why didn't the UNSC Cruisers get cloaking? And if the SMACs were cloaked, this still doesn't explain why they did not shoot down the Frigate and Supercarrier that were in orbit.

And the biggest whine of them all...

Seriously, -blam!- you.


"The Pillar of Autumn couldn't be on Reach!"

How could a huge ship like that dock? Simple. If you saw WALL-E, you would know it could have docked similarly to the Axiom did at the end of the movie.

Again, WALL-E and Halo are completely different. WALL-E was vastly more technilogically advanced than Halo.

And here's what happened if you connect The Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach:

1. The Pillar of Autumn heads to the rally point to assist UNSC forces.

I'm with you so far, though I do ask why the PoA was leaving Reach when they had been under heavy combat for almost a month and, as said by Carter, lost every ship capable of carrying a nuke (aside from the Savannah and the PoA and...all the rest of the ships that were apparently killed by 3 Covenant ships....somehow) I'd also like to ask why ONI would send the SII's away when, by Augest 30, Reach had been basically lost, and why the SIIs never defended they're "home".


2. Captain Keyes drops off John-117, Kelly, and James to the station to destroy the data on the UNSC Circumfrence.

Circumference had a month to purge they're nav data, or leave Reach. Gonna need to explain that one.


3. After all is said and done, they set a slipspace route.

Still have allot of stuff to explain, but okay.


4. Dr. Halsey sends a distress call to Keyes to recieve the Package (Cortana's clone). The Pillar of Autumn docks and recieves repairs while awaiting the Package's arrival.

Repairs from who? Who was left on Reach at this point? How did the PoA land on Reach? They would need to get past the ENTIRE Covenant fleet that had overrun Reach, land without being shot down, expedite repairs from some random workers still on Reach, attatch the jets they use to get back into space, and wait for however long they had to after that for Noble 6 to bring the Cortana fragment, all while not being overwhelmed by the Covenant forced that own the planet now. O...kay... (fine, it's capable of landing, I don't carre about that)(The PoA also spent all this time on the ground and didn't think about unfreezing Master Chief so that he could help defend the PoA, nor did they try to contact the ~20 SIIs they had earlier suicidally launched onto the plantet)


5. Noble Six gives Keyes the Package. The Pillar of Autumn launches.

Still some big gaps you need to fill there.


6. They head into a "random" Slipspace route set by Cortana (plus the data recieved from the Package)

Which was already gleamed from the rock found on Cote D'Azure. Making all those lives that were sacrificed to get the Cortana fragment to the PoA absolutely pointless.


7. 15 days later on September 14, 2552, the Pillar of Autumn finds Alpha Halo, aka Installation 04.

Well, okey dokey, but theres still quite a few gaps that need to be filled here.



[Edited on 01.26.2011 4:41 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2011 1:17 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: BULLETinURface6

Posted by: privet caboose


Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

At the time that the mission to capture a Covenant Cruiser, head to the homeworld, and capture a prophet if possible was planned/about to be set into motion, they didn't know of the invasion force that was coming.
They were about to jump when the invasion force arrived.


In Halsey's Journal, written by Nylund himself, the briefing for Red Flag was dated as the 27th took place in the middle of the massive invasion. Long after Halsey had met with Noble Team at Sword Base, and long after the "main" force of the Covenant arrived on the 14th, and quite a few days after the 23rd which is when Exodus takes place where it's said that "the fleet is scattered" by the Covenant forces at this point.

So it is a tad bit rather odd if not utterly insane that they went ahead with Red Flag's briefing, knew Reach was going to fall and how Red Flag was humanity's hope, then had the Spartans redeploy to save a doomed planet instead.

  • 01.26.2011 1:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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I love how the reply to the 'lack of MACs' was 'maybe they were invisibul!!!!!!'

  • 01.26.2011 2:12 PM PDT