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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

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Posted by: Elpis

Posted by: xtremetman85
Wow I never realized that there were this many, errors. And the birthdate one, how could Bungie have been that careless? Oh yeah I remember they rushed Reach, and only wanted the money.

They worked on Reach for 3 years, plenty of time for it not to be considered a rushed game. Yet it still had all of these errors...


The errors IMO are actully something to build up something else.

  • 02.05.2011 8:55 PM PDT

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[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

Note: the following is all educated speculation

Halo Reach was Bungie's big middle finger to Microsoft regarding story.

Microsoft played around with Bungie's Halo story from the very beginning, introducing things into the first 3 novels that were completely against the original idea of what Halo was and what it was going to be.

That's why there are so many errors and miscommunications.

Halo was always going to be about the relationship between human and AI, between the Chief and Cortana. That's pretty much the extent of it. It's completely evident from playing the games that that was the main intention for Halo's story.

Microsoft's novelists added so many factors to the backstory that - yes, whilst they were extremely entertaining and felt they were building up to something amazing - it essentially put Bungie into a bit of a tight spot regarding both canon and plot; especially because they were not happy with Microsoft.

Various sources from Bungie have always said, "If you pay attention to the games and ignore all of the novels, it makes complete sense".

Heck, in any Bungie podcast talking about novels, you can practically hear how seething the team is about Microsoft's artistic license.

"Just give us the money and get out of our way" - Jason Jones in the "Announcing the next 10 years" ViDoc talking about the deal with Activision.

Bungie's not going to want to make the same mistakes ever again. So for that, I expect their next IP to actually be solid once again.

Also, any Halo product or novel or anything from now on is going to be completely butchered and awful; that much as already been evident from the crap 343's done so far. And a Halo game yearly? Come on.

~2 cents.

  • 02.05.2011 9:19 PM PDT

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Posted by: SonicJohn
Microsoft played around with Bungie's Halo story from the very beginning, introducing things into the first 3 novels that were completely against the original idea of what Halo was and what it was going to be.


I don't disagree with you, but I think things were fine up until they decided to make things like Legends and Evolutions canon. They could have avoided a lot of this retcon crap if the would have been handled as non-canon entries into the Halo universe.

Little things like timelines surrounding weapons and what not are very small details to get upset over, but changing whole even time-lines, altering firmly established character traits, and messing with one of the biggest moments of Halo lore (leading up to the Autumns escape of Reach and arrival @ Halo) is just way too far.

I don't have much faith in any more entries into the Halo universe in terms of story, I think it is far too beat up at this point. Even with Halsey's journal "tying" things up it's still a mess to anyone that has been around for the last 10 years.

  • 02.06.2011 3:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: SonicJohn
Note: the following is all educated speculation

Halo Reach was Bungie's big middle finger to Microsoft regarding story.

Microsoft played around with Bungie's Halo story from the very beginning, introducing things into the first 3 novels that were completely against the original idea of what Halo was and what it was going to be.

That's why there are so many errors and miscommunications.

Halo was always going to be about the relationship between human and AI, between the Chief and Cortana. That's pretty much the extent of it. It's completely evident from playing the games that that was the main intention for Halo's story.

Microsoft's novelists added so many factors to the backstory that - yes, whilst they were extremely entertaining and felt they were building up to something amazing - it essentially put Bungie into a bit of a tight spot regarding both canon and plot; especially because they were not happy with Microsoft.

Various sources from Bungie have always said, "If you pay attention to the games and ignore all of the novels, it makes complete sense".

Heck, in any Bungie podcast talking about novels, you can practically hear how seething the team is about Microsoft's artistic license.

"Just give us the money and get out of our way" - Jason Jones in the "Announcing the next 10 years" ViDoc talking about the deal with Activision.

Bungie's not going to want to make the same mistakes ever again. So for that, I expect their next IP to actually be solid once again.

Also, any Halo product or novel or anything from now on is going to be completely butchered and awful; that much as already been evident from the crap 343's done so far. And a Halo game yearly? Come on.

~2 cents.


343's crap???

Evidence that 343 got fresh ideas is Halo waypoint,that has never been done on a console game before.

Halo evolutions:instead of introducing some standard book following one plot like the previous one,they give us a wide variety of other storys.From the horror flood story(mona lisa) to the a biography of a Navy commander.

-Forerunner trilogy:first storys detailing the forerunners nuff said

-Karen traviss trilogy:first books detailing the post halo 3 universe

-Halo legends:7 episodes with different art,this can be compared to the graphics novel
People claim it ruined canon but it doesn't,people claiming this have no knowledge of the halo verse at all

-The awesome comics

-the enyclopedia:while it is full of errors,at least 343 apoligies and admitted unlike Bungie who can't admit that their Reach game didn't ruined any canon.Typical

-Book releases:fixing erors and adding new awesome content.Fall of reach however had the same mistakes as the encycloepdia .

343 did far better and had far better fresh ideas to keep the haloverse new.

That bungie ruins the book canon proves that they can't handle a big sciencefiction series.343 themself aren't like that.

  • 02.06.2011 5:30 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: SonicJohn
Note: the following is all educated speculation

Halo Reach was Bungie's big middle finger to Microsoft regarding story.

Microsoft played around with Bungie's Halo story from the very beginning, introducing things into the first 3 novels that were completely against the original idea of what Halo was and what it was going to be.

That's why there are so many errors and miscommunications.

Halo was always going to be about the relationship between human and AI, between the Chief and Cortana. That's pretty much the extent of it. It's completely evident from playing the games that that was the main intention for Halo's story.

Microsoft's novelists added so many factors to the backstory that - yes, whilst they were extremely entertaining and felt they were building up to something amazing - it essentially put Bungie into a bit of a tight spot regarding both canon and plot; especially because they were not happy with Microsoft.

Various sources from Bungie have always said, "If you pay attention to the games and ignore all of the novels, it makes complete sense".

Heck, in any Bungie podcast talking about novels, you can practically hear how seething the team is about Microsoft's artistic license.

"Just give us the money and get out of our way" - Jason Jones in the "Announcing the next 10 years" ViDoc talking about the deal with Activision.

Bungie's not going to want to make the same mistakes ever again. So for that, I expect their next IP to actually be solid once again.

Also, any Halo product or novel or anything from now on is going to be completely butchered and awful; that much as already been evident from the crap 343's done so far. And a Halo game yearly? Come on.

~2 cents.


343's crap???

Evidence that 343 got fresh ideas is Halo waypoint,that has never been done on a console game before.

Halo evolutions:instead of introducing some standard book following one plot like the previous one,they give us a wide variety of other storys.From the horror flood story(mona lisa) to the a biography of a Navy commander.

-Forerunner trilogy:first storys detailing the forerunners nuff said

-Karen traviss trilogy:first books detailing the post halo 3 universe

-Halo legends:7 episodes with different art,this can be compared to the graphics novel
People claim it ruined canon but it doesn't,people claiming this have no knowledge of the halo verse at all

-The awesome comics

-the enyclopedia:while it is full of errors,at least 343 apoligies and admitted unlike Bungie who can't admit that their Reach game didn't ruined any canon.Typical

-Book releases:fixing erors and adding new awesome content.Fall of reach however had the same mistakes as the encycloepdia .

343 did far better and had far better fresh ideas to keep the haloverse new.

That bungie ruins the book canon proves that they can't handle a big sciencefiction series.343 themself aren't like that.


I agree with you. 343 has done a good job with the Halo Universe so far. Halo: Cryrum was awesome, and I actually liked Halo Legends. People around here just hate amine. And not all of the stories were meant to be taken litterly.

343 didn't ruin anything. If anything, Bungie almost did with Halo Reach.

  • 02.06.2011 10:09 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

343 has done an amazing job so far, and I'm happy with everything they've done to the story so far. I have only a single complaint about the Halo series, and that's Halo: Reach. (Ok, well, that, and ILB.)

Cryptum, Evolutions, Legends(other than Homecoming, which just pissed me off and messed with Spartan numbers.), and waypoint are all great.

  • 02.06.2011 10:30 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
343 has done an amazing job so far, and I'm happy with everything they've done to the story so far. I have only a single complaint about the Halo series, and that's Halo: Reach. (Ok, well, that, and ILB.)

Cryptum, Evolutions, Legends(other than Homecoming, which just pissed me off and messed with Spartan numbers.), and waypoint are all great.


I don't see what people are talking about when they complain that 343 is going to "ruin the franchise". So far, they're saving it.

  • 02.06.2011 10:35 AM PDT


Posted by: EchoGamer

Posted by: privet caboose
343 has done an amazing job so far, and I'm happy with everything they've done to the story so far. I have only a single complaint about the Halo series, and that's Halo: Reach. (Ok, well, that, and ILB.)

Cryptum, Evolutions, Legends(other than Homecoming, which just pissed me off and messed with Spartan numbers.), and waypoint are all great.


I don't see what people are talking about when they complain that 343 is going to "ruin the franchise". So far, they're saving it.


Inorite? I think people hate 343 because they're not Bungie. They are afraid that 343 will screw up "Bungie's story". The sad thing is, Bungie screwed their own story.

343 is SAVING Halo!

[Edited on 02.06.2011 10:55 AM PST]

  • 02.06.2011 10:54 AM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: OrderedComa
It doesn't have to explain where he is or what he's doing at that point because it's not his story. It would have been nice if they had given him a role in the story, but they didn't have to, it's a story about Noble Team, and Chief does not figure into their story.


And you still don't get it. I mentioned this point pretty much from the beginning, and yet you still don't understand its significance. The point is not whether it's his story or not, it's the fact that this is an event that involves EVERYONE in the story, and from what we know, added with common sense, then it just looks retarded that the Chief did not become involved with the last mission, if he was in fact extracted before hand. He definitely didn't get picked up after as the PoA jumped as soon as it cleared the planet.

Let's look at this. If MC is picked up prior to the last mission ( the PoA, not lone wolf cuz that doesn't really count)
Why didn't he participate at all? If the Onager was so important, why were there no defenses? Instead, Emile and 6 had to fight through an army of covenant soldiers before they get to the area. So why wasn't MC sent down to secure the area before hand? I mean, if you're going to send the Captain of the ship to pick up the package, why wouldn't you make sure it's safe? 3 Spartans is better than 2 Spartans in my book.



I have never heard the term "Onager" before, do you mean Cortana, or do you mean something else?
If you're talking about Cortana, then there was no time to gather a defense force to escort the Package, Reach was dying by that time and if they waited for more forces there wouldn't be any time left. Did you not notice the battle going on beneath the Autumn? It is not improbable that Chief was sent down there to keep the Covenant back on that front, also, we did not ever see what was going on on the other side of the Autumn, my point is that Chief does not have to be at the LZ, he could be at any point along the defenses already and be en-route back to the Autumn, and quite frankly I don't give a damn because I am not so critical of a story that I have to have every single little detail laid out or else it sucks. The area already was secure, the Covenant started pushing in again once Emile and Six arrived at the LZ.

The Onager is the mass driver...read up before you post. The battles on the ground could easily be handled by other forces, do you forget that there were pelicans and tanks and warthogs on board of the PoA? Hell, they even had Long Swords...this is besides the point...Cortana was the highest priority at that time, and the more defense the better, so why would you keep MC away, especially if the Captain himself was going to be there? The area was not secure if it can get run over by the covenant so god damn easily. I don't even recall that many marines there, if there were any.

It's not the fact that I need to know every little thing, but rather that by logic this new canon would definitely cross path with the old, and yet Bungie decided to just ignore that flat out.


If Chief is already involved in defending the Autumn in some way, most likely playing some part in the battle below, why tear him away from that? The Package already has, to Keye's knowledge, three Spartans escorting it, and why spread out your own vehicles and such if you're only there until the Package arrives? You're just making leaving harder because you have to retrieve all your equipment first.

It only clashes if you go probing into every little dusty corner looking for "evidence" to justify your position that Reach messed up the Haloverse. And in any story consisting of more than one work, and sometimes even with just one existing work, you will find such "evidence" that indicates it's all messed up. No story can match up perfectly if it's something as expansive as Halo, hell, I could find any number of "inconsistencies" between the works if I believed there were any or was so minded to do so.

  • 02.06.2011 11:35 AM PDT

You know, I've almost given up on this. Reach did break Canon. The books and the game are not compatible. You can provide evidence for this, and many have, but fanboys will be fanboys. They will never look pass the "Bungie is always right" mentality. But we know the Canon has been messed up. The Reach fanboys will just never admit it.

  • 02.06.2011 11:49 AM PDT

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Posted by: xtremetman85
Wow I never realized that there were this many, errors. And the birthdate one, how could Bungie have been that careless? Oh yeah I remember they rushed Reach, and only wanted the money.


They're not careless. With Halo: Reach, they separated the lesser fans from the greater fans. And according to this thread, it worked. Bigtime.

  • 02.06.2011 3:50 PM PDT

Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd

Posted by: xtremetman85
Wow I never realized that there were this many, errors. And the birthdate one, how could Bungie have been that careless? Oh yeah I remember they rushed Reach, and only wanted the money.


They're not careless. With Halo: Reach, they separated the lesser fans from the greater fans. And according to this thread, it worked. Bigtime.
Rename lesser and greater to intelligent and fanatical, respectively, and you got fairly accurate in this day and age.

  • 02.07.2011 1:38 PM PDT


Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: DngerlyAwkwrd

Posted by: xtremetman85
Wow I never realized that there were this many, errors. And the birthdate one, how could Bungie have been that careless? Oh yeah I remember they rushed Reach, and only wanted the money.


They're not careless. With Halo: Reach, they separated the lesser fans from the greater fans. And according to this thread, it worked. Bigtime.
Rename lesser and greater to intelligent and fanatical, respectively, and you got fairly accurate in this day and age.


Yep, right here.

  • 02.07.2011 3:15 PM PDT


Posted by: AngrydoG
Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: SonicJohn
Note: the following is all educated speculation

Halo Reach was Bungie's big middle finger to Microsoft regarding story.

Microsoft played around with Bungie's Halo story from the very beginning, introducing things into the first 3 novels that were completely against the original idea of what Halo was and what it was going to be.

That's why there are so many errors and miscommunications.

Halo was always going to be about the relationship between human and AI, between the Chief and Cortana. That's pretty much the extent of it. It's completely evident from playing the games that that was the main intention for Halo's story.

Microsoft's novelists added so many factors to the backstory that - yes, whilst they were extremely entertaining and felt they were building up to something amazing - it essentially put Bungie into a bit of a tight spot regarding both canon and plot; especially because they were not happy with Microsoft.

Various sources from Bungie have always said, "If you pay attention to the games and ignore all of the novels, it makes complete sense".

Heck, in any Bungie podcast talking about novels, you can practically hear how seething the team is about Microsoft's artistic license.

"Just give us the money and get out of our way" - Jason Jones in the "Announcing the next 10 years" ViDoc talking about the deal with Activision.

Bungie's not going to want to make the same mistakes ever again. So for that, I expect their next IP to actually be solid once again.

Also, any Halo product or novel or anything from now on is going to be completely butchered and awful; that much as already been evident from the crap 343's done so far. And a Halo game yearly? Come on.

~2 cents.


343's crap???

Evidence that 343 got fresh ideas is Halo waypoint,that has never been done on a console game before.

Halo evolutions:instead of introducing some standard book following one plot like the previous one,they give us a wide variety of other storys.From the horror flood story(mona lisa) to the a biography of a Navy commander.

-Forerunner trilogy:first storys detailing the forerunners nuff said

-Karen traviss trilogy:first books detailing the post halo 3 universe

-Halo legends:7 episodes with different art,this can be compared to the graphics novel
People claim it ruined canon but it doesn't,people claiming this have no knowledge of the halo verse at all

-The awesome comics

-the enyclopedia:while it is full of errors,at least 343 apoligies and admitted unlike Bungie who can't admit that their Reach game didn't ruined any canon.Typical

-Book releases:fixing erors and adding new awesome content.Fall of reach however had the same mistakes as the encycloepdia .

343 did far better and had far better fresh ideas to keep the haloverse new.

That bungie ruins the book canon proves that they can't handle a big sciencefiction series.343 themself aren't like that.


I am going to write you down as an idiot.


The Guy even said that it was the Middle finger to Microsoft, the Big -blam!- you, its our game now we gonna do what we want.


You're an idiot. He basically said 343 is crap, when really, 343 has only helped to flesh out the Halo Universe. That's what the guy above you was trying to say.

  • 02.07.2011 6:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: SonicJohn
Note: the following is all educated speculation

Halo Reach was Bungie's big middle finger to Microsoft regarding story.

This, i tought about this to, i agree completely.

  • 02.07.2011 6:39 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

This is actual a very good read that sums up many of the canon errors from a different point of view. Scroll through the post until you see "Section III: Plot holes and bad writing."

  • 02.08.2011 5:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: privet caboose
This is actual a very good read that sums up many of the canon errors from a different point of view. Scroll through the post until you see "Section III: Plot holes and bad writing."


I totally agree with Aratech's comments, I think even me, who I'm an ammateur science fiction writer, with a Halo fanfic has better plot logic on using the UNSC assests than Bungie did with Reach.

I mean I'm a huge fan of Bungie, the game is helluva fun but, the Campaign really wasn't only a middle finger to Microsoft, but for the fans too, shame on you Marcus Letho for allowing this!

[Edited on 02.08.2011 8:11 PM PST]

  • 02.08.2011 8:10 PM PDT
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also, why is halsey commanding spartan III's and talking to them like no big deal, when she isn't supposed to know about spartan III's until onyx?

the evens at onyx are supposed to be about one month after reach?

  • 02.09.2011 7:29 AM PDT

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Posted by: Hyliannightmare
also, why is halsey commanding spartan III's and talking to them like no big deal, when she isn't supposed to know about spartan III's until onyx?

the evens at onyx are supposed to be about one month after reach?


She didn't know they were S-IIIs. All she knew was that Noble Team (besides Jorge) weren't her SPARTANs. She makes mention of it in her journal.

  • 02.09.2011 1:39 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
This is actual a very good read that sums up many of the canon errors from a different point of view. Scroll through the post until you see "Section III: Plot holes and bad writing."


Some of Aratech's arguments are good, but most of it was too colored by his feelings to actually be considered logically. And many of his arguments are flimsy and can easily be countered by anyone with half a brain-cell to call his own. He barely analyzes his so called "issues" and goes to great lengths to criticize the plot analyzing the smallest details. Of course he's going to find mistakes doing that, hell, I could do the same to something like Lord of the Rings, analyzing every single little detail is going to show up a whole lot of "mistakes".

So while he does raise a couple valid points worth thinking about, his review is far too colored by his own bias against the story, like many other people I have seen criticizing Reach, this taints what otherwise might have been a reasonable article with inflammatory, poor logic and reasoning.

  • 02.10.2011 2:24 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
This is actual a very good read that sums up many of the canon errors from a different point of view. Scroll through the post until you see "Section III: Plot holes and bad writing."


Some of Aratech's arguments are good, but most of it was too colored by his feelings to actually be considered logically. And many of his arguments are flimsy and can easily be countered by anyone with half a brain-cell to call his own. He barely analyzes his so called "issues" and goes to great lengths to criticize the plot analyzing the smallest details. Of course he's going to find mistakes doing that, hell, I could do the same to something like Lord of the Rings, analyzing every single little detail is going to show up a whole lot of "mistakes".

So while he does raise a couple valid points worth thinking about, his review is far too colored by his own bias against the story, like many other people I have seen criticizing Reach, this taints what otherwise might have been a reasonable article with inflammatory, poor logic and reasoning.


I, having read that article/post, have to completely disagree with what Aratech said(for the most part).

Some of his arguments sound like somebody who didn't even look at the campaign with a clear eye. "How did they get visual feed while inside the Spire's shield? I mean, the shield blocks sensors!" When I read that, I laughed. The Spire didn't block sensors(which are completely different from communications and visual feeds running off said lines.), it was the pylon that was blown up in the begining of Tip of the Spear. When he talks about Kat's death, he mentions "Why didn't she turn on her shields?" The answer is, "She couldn't due to the glassing beam/radiation from the beam." You see three Spartans without helms in the cutscene. After putting helms on, you see NONE with shields reactivating. After the beam, they would have.

At one point he talks about ending of LNOS, and from that point on it sounded like he simply hated Spartan IIIs(Or at least Noble Team members). "Six should have handed his pack to Jorge and died there cause Spartan IIs are inferior in EVERY way to Spartan II's." He must forget to notice how Jorge didn't give Six a chance to do anything. Jorge literally went "Let me do this for Reach." *Tosses Six out of window*

Among other little details he blew to epic proportions while making me shake my head was Easter eggs. He took the MC easter egg at the end of the PoA, as CANON EVENT. He made it sound like it was the legendary ending and forces the camera to scroll over (which it doesn't.)

[Edited on 02.10.2011 2:53 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 2:52 PM PDT


Posted by: Najar
Posted by: SonicJohn
Note: the following is all educated speculation

Halo Reach was Bungie's big middle finger to Microsoft regarding story.

This, i tought about this to, i agree completely.


Yeah, but it's at the same time a middle finger to us. How would you feel if you were told, that the story of several books you read years ago, books which you thought was canon and deepened a universe you liked, to be false? It sucks hard. As a fan, it's hard to love something that goes against anything you've been loving for far longer.

  • 02.10.2011 2:57 PM PDT