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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
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Posted by: privet caboose
No Orbital MAC's were lost until the 30th, so it really is unexplainable.



You would have a point... if the later half of Fall of Reach mattered in the slightest.

  • 09.18.2010 8:01 AM PDT

You have no rights. Play nice

Still here, Halo Reach campaign's story still sucks.

  • 09.18.2010 8:28 AM PDT


Posted by: Hysterical Joker
A Supercarrier is not something you can keep quiet.


You underestimate the power of ONI.

And I find your lack of faith in Bungie disturbing.

;)

  • 09.18.2010 9:41 AM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.

What has become of the canon

  • 09.18.2010 10:41 AM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: dangerman1337

Posted by: privet caboose
Doesn't Long night of Solace take place early in August? To my understanding, that supercarrier was the only one around Reach, so why weren't ANY of the SMAC's around to take it out? Sure, I know they were spread out, but obviously most of the fighting was in that area, and it'd be able to turn and face the carrier.


IIRC Depending on the calculations SMACs have gone up to 9.97 TERATONS OF TNT equivlant which is easily two orders of magnitue of say a single digit megaton nuclear weapon so taking the Assault Carrier (it wasn't a Supercarrier IMO)would of been WAY to risky without massive Environmental damage (Reach isn't some random small colony)even the lower end of 49 gigatons is almost an order magnitude compared to the Tsar Bomba which was 50 megatons which could of still done a lot of damage.
What people never understand is that just because it has a force equivalent to a nuke going off in terms of MACs and several hundred/thousand nukes going off in terms of SMACs, they don't have a nuclear explosion. The force of an SMAC round is so great, that is simply overpenetrates the target, and hits something else behind it. It also creates massive hull strains on ships, due to the momentum at which it is pushed back, from the fraction of a second the shield will hold the round - this tears them apart, or even makes their hulls shatter.

Just because its force is 50 gigatons of TNT does not mean it will have an impact that looks like 50 gigatons of TNT going off. The force is transferred in a different way entirely.

  • 09.18.2010 11:07 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Here is a compilation of errors that we, the universe elite, have created in light of Halo: Reach's launch. Note, that this is STILL a work in progress, and will be upgraded as new breaks are located.



Error: Reach was invaded on July 24th.1.
Proof: All Halo media has always stated Reach fell in one day, and that day was August 30th.

Sources:Ghosts of Oynx, First Strike, Fall of Reach.



Error: Alpha Company was wiped out completely during Operation: PROMETHEUS in 2537. Carter, Emile, and Jun should not be alive.

Proof: Halo: Ghosts of Onyx goes into quite a bit of detail on Operation: PROMETHEUS. Spartan-III Alpha Company (comprised of 300 Spartans) were sent to K7-49 on a mission to destroy plasma reactors the Covenant were using to liquefy metallurgical components.

The operation was a success, but it is explicitly stated that it cost the lives of every Spartan-III on the asteroid because they got cut off from their Calypso-class Exfiltration crafts and completely lost their unit cohesion.

Halo Reach chooses to ignore this. Carter (A-259), Emile (A-239), and Jun (A-266) are a part of Noble Team when they should have been dead years ago; Bungie have given us no explanation on how they escaped at all.

Sources:
- Ghosts of Onyx, page 83-87.
- Halo Reach



Error: ONI's actions as well as the Cole Protocol.

According to the Cole Protocol, if any Covenant Forces are detected, then all NAV bases and ships should purge their computers of information to protect Earth and the inner colonies.

Proof:If Covenant are detected on Reach on July 23rd, how is it that a month later, there are still computers with information to Earth still active? If ONI hadn't taken more than a month, than Blue team wouldn't have been deployed to the Circumference, and James wouldn't have died, and Linda wouldn't have been in a coma. Infact, they would have been on Reach with Red team.

Sources:

Pg 289 of The Fall of Reach gives information on the purging of Info not complete.
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/United_Nations_Space_Command_Emerg ency_Priority_Order_098831A-1



Error: Carter, Emile, and Jun's age.
Carter is born in 2520. He was 11 years old when Alpha Company began their training. This puts him 5 years above the previously stated age, and it makes no sense at all. Why would they have an 11 year old on the same training regime as a 4 year old? It's too large of a difference, and it's an error that can be avoiding by simply changing his birthdate. This same thing goes for Emile and Jun, who are older than 6 years old at Alpha training.

Proof: Page 69(I'm doing this by memory, I may be wrong.) of Ghosts of Oynx states that all of Alpha Company was comprised of 4, 5, and 6 year old children that he was going to have to forge into the best warriors humanity has ever seen.

Source: Ghosts of Oynx, page 69.



Error: Lack of Orbital MAC's.

Proof: Reach had a number of Orbital MAC's that were used in the battle of Reach. They were present on August 30th, so they should have been present during the mission "Long Night of Solace" in Halo: Reach. Had they been present, they Jorge wouldn't have died. Where were they?

Source: Fall of Reach, First Strike, Halo: Reach



Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach


Special Thanks:
-ajw23207
-MOB74656
-xXFatal v1
-opog
-Kippa



If I've missed any errors, please, point them out. I'll add them to the OP, or try to explain them.

Also, if you have any explanation to these canon errors, please, explain how they fit into canon, and the sources.
That was a recon force. The covenant Noble Team fought was most likely part of a smaller force. Then according to the journal of Halsey they arrived en masse on August 30th, where it fell by the end of the day. This smaller force includes the supercarrier, and other ships that managed to land on Reach from 24th of July to the 30th of August.

Source: Halo Reach. Dr. Halsey's Jounal

2. I would say there are now more Alpha Company spartans or that some were just classified as dead. The "survivors" would then be placed on Noble Team or some other team if there is any. I never liked how Nylund made it so 99% of the Spartan III's died. It closed many storied that could of been told in the Halo lore.

Souce: My own assumptions/reasonings

3. I'd wait for an explanation from Bungie or 343 studios. Good Point.

4. Giving this one to you Caboose. Retcon of their ages will be necessary.

5. In order for me to fully answer this, I need to know how they were positioned in orbit, how they move, ect. Because in TFoR it made it appear like they and all the UNSC ships were on one side of them planet. The covenant were also on one side killing them. This would lead to a breach of intelligence of why didn't the covenant just go to the other side of the planet, deploy their troops, go below orbit, and then they could manage to take out their ODPs without the suicidal charges. Correct me if I;m wrong.

6. Who says it was always on the ground? For all we know they could of deployed Teams Red and Blue, then dock with the shipyard, get the fragment of Cortana with the Forerunner data on it, retrieve Blue team (still destroying the supercarrier of course) and then jump to Alpha Halo.

Maybe they believed that this mission could end the war/ceasefire,ect. Perhaps there was a lapse of Covenant ships arriving in system so they believed they could hold them off until the mission was complete. When the 300(700?) ships showed up, they said "Oh -blam!-" and now though that defending Reach was more important now then yesterday due to the fact that this fleet could easily take Reach out within the day and that their navy didn't appear so tough as the previous weeks of fighting small pockets of ships.

So... yeah. Say what's wrong with my statements, I'll change them to fit in better, we'll have a nice discussion on this.

:D

  • 09.18.2010 11:17 AM PDT

Yea.

In the Halo universe, faster-than-light travel was supposedly discovered in 2291, but Professor Farnsworth from Futurama said that it became possible to increase the speed of light in 2208, negating the need for a slipspace drive.

So, yeah. What's up with that?

  • 09.18.2010 12:04 PM PDT

Turkey

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=49113556&v iewreplies=true

I go over Cortana being on Reach in much detail, and also some evidence in CE itself of Reach shoving the Halo canon up its ass. Perhaps you could add this to your list? :)

[Edited on 09.18.2010 12:49 PM PDT]

  • 09.18.2010 12:46 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Jak O Bladez
Read the journal
That was a scouting force that invaded on July 24, oni kept it quiet, thats why everything we know is wrong.

Noble Team was pulled out off alpha company before they all died.

Again, oni kept it quiet Halsey comments on this many times, calling it strange etc.

Read the journal, it fixes a few things, I have no answer to the others.


The journal has no reference to the Spartan-III Project, except Halsey's suspicions that someone is trying to rival her S-II Project.

Also, Carter, Emile and Jun were not simply pulled out of Alpha Company. They took part in Operation: PROMETHEUS where all 300 S-IIIs of AC died, but I guess Bungie had to go and -blam!- with the S-III rosters now because they got bored of doing it to the S-II one.

The entire Covenant fleet arrived just after Long Night of Solace, that's not something that can be covered up, nor is it in any way the same date as the one from FoR.

  • 09.18.2010 5:58 PM PDT

Spartans never die, they just respawn.

Bungie is leaving halo so they didnt give a -blam!-; they dont have to fix the plot mistakes in the next game. I mean how hard could of it been to just put the pillar of autumn in space. and did they seriously infer that cortana was a forerunner AI.

  • 09.18.2010 6:25 PM PDT


Posted by: FleetAdmiralBob

Posted by: privet caboose
No Orbital MAC's were lost until the 30th, so it really is unexplainable.



You would have a point... if the later half of Fall of Reach mattered in the slightest.

You may want to go back and play sword base again.
Look for the part where the orbital mac shoots down a covenant ship


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Jak O Bladez
Read the journal
That was a scouting force that invaded on July 24, oni kept it quiet, thats why everything we know is wrong.

Noble Team was pulled out off alpha company before they all died.

Again, oni kept it quiet Halsey comments on this many times, calling it strange etc.

Read the journal, it fixes a few things, I have no answer to the others.


The journal has no reference to the Spartan-III Project, except Halsey's suspicions that someone is trying to rival her S-II Project.

Actually it does, *spoiler* it's the part where she finds proof and then writes about talking to Noble team.
There are multiple references before too.


Also, Carter, Emile and Jun were not simply pulled out of Alpha Company. They took part in Operation: PROMETHEUS where all 300 S-IIIs of AC died, but I guess Bungie had to go and -blam!- with the S-III rosters now because they got bored of doing it to the S-II one.

Well, I read somewhere that they were, which makes sense.
I'll try to find where. You try to find proof supporting your statement.

Oh, heres where I read it
Take a look, may not be 100% though, but i'm sure I didn't read any direct mention to any member of noble team in any of the books.

[Edited on 09.18.2010 8:15 PM PDT]

  • 09.18.2010 7:34 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

Halsey's jounal explains almost all of this, and as for the PoA, whos to say that Red team didnt travel by pelican from the PoA to the generators, and blue team up into orbit to destroy the data?

  • 09.18.2010 7:42 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

you're naut cookin'

Except that the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.

  • 09.18.2010 8:04 PM PDT

Halsey's jounal explains almost all of this, and as for the PoA, whos to say that Red team didnt travel by pelican from the PoA to the generators, and blue team up into orbit to destroy the data?

IF you HAD bothered to read this thread, you'd realize that these are the issues that the Journal is unable to address.

Hence, the Journal is worthless as it still contradicts the original Reach novel anyways.

  • 09.18.2010 8:13 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member


Posted by: Kamikazi117
Bungie is leaving halo so they didnt give a -blam!-; they dont have to fix the plot mistakes in the next game. I mean how hard could of it been to just put the pillar of autumn in space. and did they seriously infer that cortana was a forerunner AI.


No. They didn't.

  • 09.18.2010 8:17 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Halsey's jounal explains almost all of this, and as for the PoA, whos to say that Red team didnt travel by pelican from the PoA to the generators, and blue team up into orbit to destroy the data?

IF you HAD bothered to read this thread, you'd realize that these are the issues that the Journal is unable to address.

Hence, the Journal is worthless as it still contradicts the original Reach novel anyways.
actually I have read the thread and I still go by my statement. and it is not worthless even if it contradicts (which it does at some points, just minorly) it is still canon because bungie made it

[Edited on 09.18.2010 9:03 PM PDT]

  • 09.18.2010 9:01 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.


Posted by: kippa
Except that the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.
We shouldn't have to repeat ourselves like this.

Also if Red Team had deployed from the PoA on the ground, 4 SPARTANS would not have been killed and 6+ not wounded from the drop itself.

  • 09.18.2010 9:44 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

you're naut cookin'

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: kippa
Except that the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.
We shouldn't have to repeat ourselves like this.

Also if Red Team had deployed from the PoA on the ground, 4 SPARTANS would not have been killed and 6+ not wounded from the drop itself.


Maybe they're going to make a Halo CE remake where you don't really have to do anything because you have 35+ SIIs to help you out, and as soon as the Pillar of Autumn crashes, you can detonate its reactors because Cortana already knows about the Flood and the purpose of the Halo woo.

  • 09.19.2010 12:30 AM PDT


Posted by: kippa
Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: kippa
Except that the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.
We shouldn't have to repeat ourselves like this.

Also if Red Team had deployed from the PoA on the ground, 4 SPARTANS would not have been killed and 6+ not wounded from the drop itself.


Maybe they're going to make a Halo CE remake where you don't really have to do anything because you have 35+ SIIs to help you out, and as soon as the Pillar of Autumn crashes, you can detonate its reactors because Cortana already knows about the Flood and the purpose of the Halo woo.

Bungie remedies the PoA not being rated for atmosphere by the presence of vertical thrusters in the last level that allow it to take off.

The rest, though, is still inconsistent.

  • 09.19.2010 12:33 AM PDT

error: You're wrong
Proof: Bungie creates canon and they created the halo series so everything is cool, also someone at the pillar of autumm could still prepare.

  • 09.19.2010 4:21 AM PDT

Run DMC and Jam Master Jay

The vertical thrusters are not a part of the autumn. They are fitted onto the PoA and they stop working as soon as it leaves the atmosphere. The ship is not rated for atmoshpere, but the vertical thrusters mounted onto it solve that problem.

  • 09.19.2010 5:42 AM PDT

The biggest question is how the covenant didn't learn the position of Earth after INVADING THE BIGGEST MILITARY STRONGHOLD IN THE GALAXY. Are you telling me that it wasn't written down ANYWHERE? A whole plannet! The covenant must be f***ing retarded.

  • 09.19.2010 5:48 AM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?

Emergency Priority Order 098831A-1

BTW, are you a troll?

  • 09.19.2010 10:09 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: kippa
Except that the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.
We shouldn't have to repeat ourselves like this.

Also if Red Team had deployed from the PoA on the ground, 4 SPARTANS would not have been killed and 6+ not wounded from the drop itself.
their pelican could have been shot down after a ground deployment and still have the same results

  • 09.19.2010 11:43 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: Darthbill99

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII

Posted by: kippa
Except that the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.
We shouldn't have to repeat ourselves like this.

Also if Red Team had deployed from the PoA on the ground, 4 SPARTANS would not have been killed and 6+ not wounded from the drop itself.
their pelican could have been shot down after a ground deployment and still have the same results


Being shot down from a pelican, and JUMPING OUT OF A PELICAN IN LOW ATMOSPHERE are completely different.

Besides that'd be another Retcon. WHOOO retcons!

  • 09.19.2010 8:28 PM PDT