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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)

RED BRICK STUDIOS!

Well, I'm not sure what was going on with the artificial gravity on the corvette, but maybe the generator problem lies there?

  • 02.16.2011 1:10 PM PDT

Favorite video game series: Professor Layton or Half-Life
Favorite video game: Super Mario Galaxy
Favorite movie series: Pixar (It's not really a series, but I just can't pick.)
Favorite movie: Inception

WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

  • 02.16.2011 1:14 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

  • 02.16.2011 1:23 PM PDT

Favorite video game series: Professor Layton or Half-Life
Favorite video game: Super Mario Galaxy
Favorite movie series: Pixar (It's not really a series, but I just can't pick.)
Favorite movie: Inception

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.

  • 02.16.2011 1:26 PM PDT

Posted By: chickenlittle
That would involve a captain or AI being able to evade the plasma torpedo in the first place, which was only possible because Keyes accelerated at full speed using gravity's help, so they didn't have time to change course of the torpedoes in time.


And that is something any AI could easily do, what Keyes did was not the only thing that would have worked, he merely used his surroundings to his advantage because of the situation. It would not be hard to turn Covenant plasma against itself at all.

Harvest fell in 2524. The subsequent retaking of it was less than years years after. The battle at Sigma Octanus was in 2552, decades later. Quoted directly from the novel, "That's the reason we're here. We need a victory. It's been too damn long - us getting whittled to pieces by those alien bastards. So this has got to be a win. No matter what it takes."(Admiral Stanforth, page 160, TFoR). This single-handedly indicates the UNSC has been battered repeatedly over the years.

I suppose you are right, but you can't claim that they're always curb stomped, because they're not. Maybe no major vitories happened in between 2531 and 2552, but that does not mean the UNSC did not have any victories and always lost to the Covenant.

Again, "because gameplay durrrr" is not a valid excuse. It excludes the game from having to make any sense. For example, the Pelicans in Combat Evolved didn't use turrets. Why? Because the ammunition store had been destroyed. And the capital ships in Battlefront II do attack you. I have been blown out of space multitudes of times by both the corvettes and main ship, until I destroyed its turrets.

It is a completely valid reason, and no it does not, it can, but that is not absolute law. If you mean the turrets you can man from inside the ships, then yes, the capitol ships in BFII can attack you. The corvette has turrets of similar strength. However my point about the capitol ships and their escorts still stands, if they were anything like they're supposed to, space battles in the game would be impossible. Sometimes "realism" must be abandoned for the sake of playability.

OK. An undamaged, perfectly intact Covenant corvette. The smallest known capital ship in the Covenant fleet, uses fuel faster than any other ship in their arsenal, despite the fact that it is a fraction of their size. Makes perfect sense. For sanity's sake, I think we'll have to call this one a draw. There is no way for us to know for sure either way.

Sure, draw is fine with me, both us are only going to look more stupid nitpicking this point.

Both High Charity and Unyielding Heirophant had Slipspace drives, which is the entire reason they were able to get from place to place. It would be extremely implausible for High Charity to require the tiny-by-comparison cruisers and carriers to move it, and Unyielding Heirophant was a fraction of its size.

I know High Charity has a Slipspace drive, I never said it didn't, the description of Unyielding Heirophant however, does not sound like something that would hold up well in the transition into and out of Slipspace, it and High Charity are built differently, much like the Phantoms and Spirits, one can transition in and out of Slipspace safely, and the other can't. The design differences don't allow it.

  • 02.16.2011 1:30 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: spartanguy123
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.

There is nothing I can do to help you, I'm sorry.

  • 02.16.2011 2:03 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By: chickenlittle
That would involve a captain or AI being able to evade the plasma torpedo in the first place, which was only possible because Keyes accelerated at full speed using gravity's help, so they didn't have time to change course of the torpedoes in time.


And that is something any AI could easily do, what Keyes did was not the only thing that would have worked, he merely used his surroundings to his advantage because of the situation. It would not be hard to turn Covenant plasma against itself at all.
If that were true, it would have been done in the past to help even the odds. It's not that the AI couldn't do it. It's just that the UNSC captains never thought of trying it, or all failed trying.

Harvest fell in 2524. The subsequent retaking of it was less than years years after. The battle at Sigma Octanus was in 2552, decades later. Quoted directly from the novel, "That's the reason we're here. We need a victory. It's been too damn long - us getting whittled to pieces by those alien bastards. So this has got to be a win. No matter what it takes."(Admiral Stanforth, page 160, TFoR). This single-handedly indicates the UNSC has been battered repeatedly over the years.

I suppose you are right, but you can't claim that they're always curb stomped, because they're not. Maybe no major vitories happened in between 2531 and 2552, but that does not mean the UNSC did not have any victories and always lost to the Covenant.
When you need three ships to make an even fight with the enemy's one, that is pretty much the definition of curb stomping right there. I'm not saying the UNSC didn't have any victories; they did, scattered here and there. However, the vast majority of naval engagements were losses due to the overwhelming superiority of Covenant ships.

Again, "because gameplay durrrr" is not a valid excuse. It excludes the game from having to make any sense. For example, the Pelicans in Combat Evolved didn't use turrets. Why? Because the ammunition store had been destroyed. And the capital ships in Battlefront II do attack you. I have been blown out of space multitudes of times by both the corvettes and main ship, until I destroyed its turrets.

It is a completely valid reason, and no it does not, it can, but that is not absolute law. If you mean the turrets you can man from inside the ships, then yes, the capitol ships in BFII can attack you. The corvette has turrets of similar strength. However my point about the capitol ships and their escorts still stands, if they were anything like they're supposed to, space battles in the game would be impossible. Sometimes "realism" must be abandoned for the sake of playability.
When the gameplay is limited by the technology available, it is reasonable to do so. When you have the capacity to add something, but don't, and it doesn't make any sense, it is not a valid excuse. The escorts and turrets on the ships do what they're supposed to. They're turbolasers; hell, in Episode IV, some random Imperial tells Vader the single ships are too small to hit with turbolaser. Even so, they still attack the single ships. The only thing changed is their effectiveness, not their role.

Both High Charity and Unyielding Heirophant had Slipspace drives, which is the entire reason they were able to get from place to place. It would be extremely implausible for High Charity to require the tiny-by-comparison cruisers and carriers to move it, and Unyielding Heirophant was a fraction of its size.

I know High Charity has a Slipspace drive, I never said it didn't, the description of Unyielding Heirophant however, does not sound like something that would hold up well in the transition into and out of Slipspace, it and High Charity are built differently, much like the Phantoms and Spirits, one can transition in and out of Slipspace safely, and the other can't. The design differences don't allow it.
As far as I know from the novels, the only things necessary for Slipspace travel are the Slipspace drive, and enough mass to hold together during exit into normal space, which Unyielding Heirophant would have, based upon its size. As for the dropships, that's another hole. Toward the end of First Strike, the Spartan II's use a Spirit dropship to drop out of Slipspace while the Gettysburg stays on course. Due to the dropship being tiny, it would normally shake itself to pieces during the transition. The team reinforced it using enough Titanium A beams that there was barely room to stand. When it finally did transition, the dropship was a broken wreck, with the beams and chassis mostly broken or melted.

  • 02.16.2011 10:29 PM PDT

Posted by: spartanguy123
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.
Really. You think not a single other goddamn person ever thought of this.

Stop being a fanboi and learn to think about what happens, not just blindly accept it like the sheep you seem to be. However, we are not content to let others tell us what to think. What we are doing is analyzing the problems with what they did. I have spent far too much time and money in this franchise to accept this kind of pure and utter bull-blam!-.

  • 02.16.2011 10:31 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: spartanguy123
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.
Really. You think not a single other goddamn person ever thought of this.

Stop being a fanboi and learn to think about what happens, not just blindly accept it like the sheep you seem to be. However, we are not content to let others tell us what to think. What we are doing is analyzing the problems with what they did. I have spent far too much time and money in this franchise to accept this kind of pure and utter bull-blam!-.

So have I.

  • 02.16.2011 11:43 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: spartanguy123
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.
Really. You think not a single other goddamn person ever thought of this.

Stop being a fanboi and learn to think about what happens, not just blindly accept it like the sheep you seem to be. However, we are not content to let others tell us what to think. What we are doing is analyzing the problems with what they did. I have spent far too much time and money in this franchise to accept this kind of pure and utter bull-blam!-.

So have I.


agreed.

[Edited on 02.17.2011 4:57 AM PST]

  • 02.17.2011 4:57 AM PDT


Posted by: spartanguy123
Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.


That's the -blam!- problem dude. We were told until now that everything we read was canon and come to love it, now they're basically telling us it's all false, isn't it frustrating, don't you feel cheated? Why read Halo books anyway if they don't fit with the games and the true universe... I wasted more than a hundred of bucks for reading all that crap?

  • 02.17.2011 5:57 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: spartanguy123
Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.


That's the -blam!- problem dude. We were told until now that everything we read was canon and come to love it, now they're basically telling us it's all false, isn't it frustrating, don't you feel cheated? Why read Halo books anyway if they don't fit with the games and the true universe... I wasted more than a hundred of bucks for reading all that crap?

Don't worry friend, most of us have dismissed Halo: Reach instead.

  • 02.17.2011 10:49 AM PDT

Posted By: chickenlittle
If that were true, it would have been done in the past to help even the odds. It's not that the AI couldn't do it. It's just that the UNSC captains never thought of trying it, or all failed trying.


We don't know all the details of all the battles, it's not an impossibility that Covenant plasma has been turned against them before.

When you need three ships to make an even fight with the enemy's one, that is pretty much the definition of curb stomping right there. I'm not saying the UNSC didn't have any victories; they did, scattered here and there. However, the vast majority of naval engagements were losses due to the overwhelming superiority of Covenant ships.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I don't hold the whole 3:1 ratio as law, heck I don't even really agree with it at all because I think the books do an awful job with Covenant military might, they make them too powerful. The way the power of the Covenant ships and weaponry is described the UNSC should not have had any victories or even had the chance to destroy Covie ships except by Spartan nuke delivery service.

When the gameplay is limited by the technology available, it is reasonable to do so. When you have the capacity to add something, but don't, and it doesn't make any sense, it is not a valid excuse. The escorts and turrets on the ships do what they're supposed to. They're turbolasers; hell, in Episode IV, some random Imperial tells Vader the single ships are too small to hit with turbolaser. Even so, they still attack the single ships. The only thing changed is their effectiveness, not their role.

That's not the only time it's a valid excuse. It makes perfect sense to not include something that should be there because it'd make things too hard, case in point the majority of the Covenant shipboard plasma weaponry, you wouldn't stand a chance against the standard ship weaponry. And I don't think the ones in BFII are supposed to be turbolasers, they're not in the right places for one thing.

As far as I know from the novels, the only things necessary for Slipspace travel are the Slipspace drive, and enough mass to hold together during exit into normal space, which Unyielding Heirophant would have, based upon its size. As for the dropships, that's another hole. Toward the end of First Strike, the Spartan II's use a Spirit dropship to drop out of Slipspace while the Gettysburg stays on course. Due to the dropship being tiny, it would normally shake itself to pieces during the transition. The team reinforced it using enough Titanium A beams that there was barely room to stand. When it finally did transition, the dropship was a broken wreck, with the beams and chassis mostly broken or melted.

I don't think it's entirely about the mass, I think it's more about how it's built. Take for instance the ship Halsey comandeers, it sounds about the same size as the Phantom or the Spirit, and it can go through Slipspace just fine and dandy without damaging the structure of the craft. And all the Covie craft except the Spirit are built rather aerodynamically you could say, the Spirit is not, it's got a funky shape that doesn't look like it'd hold up well from a Slipspace jump. Yes, the UNSC ships are not really close to aerodynamic and are a little blocky looking, but they still look like something that'd hold up from a jump. The way the Unyielding Heirophant is built, it doesn't sound like something that'd hold together from a jump, it doesn't sound like it's shaped the way most Covie craft and stations are. High Charity, however, holds to the "aerodynamic" design of Covenant craft and looks like something rock solid and able to easily go through Slipspace and come out in one piece.

  • 02.17.2011 12:32 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: OrderedComa
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I don't hold the whole 3:1 ratio as law, heck I don't even really agree with it at all because I think the books do an awful job with Covenant military might, they make them too powerful. The way the power of the Covenant ships and weaponry is described the UNSC should not have had any victories or even had the chance to destroy Covie ships except by Spartan nuke delivery service


The Covenant are supposed to be extremely powerful and near unbeatable. The 3:1 ratio might as well be law. Only in extreme situations does that number change.

In The Impossible Life and Possible Death of Preston J. Cole, it describes all of Coles victories. This includes:(exact quote: Halo Evolutions page 470.)

Origami Asteroid Field:
Cole: 117 ships.
Covenant: 12 ships.
Conclusion: Cole lost 37 ships.

Xo Bootis:
Cole: 77 ships.
Covenant: 8 ships.
Conclusion: Cole lost 30 ships.

Groombridge:
Cole: 17 ships.
Covenant: 3 ships.
Conclusion: Cole lost 11 ships.

Leonis Minoris:
Cole: ???
Covenant: ???
Conclusion: Cole only lost 10 ships, but two colony worlds were "glassed."

"Another twenty-three engagements(or was it twenty-four...does Alpha Cephei count?) like those over the past ten years...or is it fifteen? So much travel in slipspace.

The games are what makes the Covenant seem like a joke.

[Edited on 02.17.2011 1:41 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2011 1:37 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By: chickenlittle
If that were true, it would have been done in the past to help even the odds. It's not that the AI couldn't do it. It's just that the UNSC captains never thought of trying it, or all failed trying.


We don't know all the details of all the battles, it's not an impossibility that Covenant plasma has been turned against them before.
We don't know for sure for some battles. However, considering we know of at least a dozen others where the plasma was not used, and only one where it was, and that being an extremely desperate maneuver, the logical conclusion was that human fleets used conventional tactics, not using the plasma.

When you need three ships to make an even fight with the enemy's one, that is pretty much the definition of curb stomping right there. I'm not saying the UNSC didn't have any victories; they did, scattered here and there. However, the vast majority of naval engagements were losses due to the overwhelming superiority of Covenant ships.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, I don't hold the whole 3:1 ratio as law, heck I don't even really agree with it at all because I think the books do an awful job with Covenant military might, they make them too powerful. The way the power of the Covenant ships and weaponry is described the UNSC should not have had any victories or even had the chance to destroy Covie ships except by Spartan nuke delivery service.
What? The UNSC won because they had 3:1 odds. If it had been any less they would have lost every time. Please read privet caboose's post for sources of this.

When the gameplay is limited by the technology available, it is reasonable to do so. When you have the capacity to add something, but don't, and it doesn't make any sense, it is not a valid excuse. The escorts and turrets on the ships do what they're supposed to. They're turbolasers; hell, in Episode IV, some random Imperial tells Vader the single ships are too small to hit with turbolaser. Even so, they still attack the single ships. The only thing changed is their effectiveness, not their role.

That's not the only time it's a valid excuse. It makes perfect sense to not include something that should be there because it'd make things too hard, case in point the majority of the Covenant shipboard plasma weaponry, you wouldn't stand a chance against the standard ship weaponry. And I don't think the ones in BFII are supposed to be turbolasers, they're not in the right places for one thing.
On the other hand, you'd have plenty of good chances. Plasma torpedoes aren't used against single ships, which can evade it. Only the the pulse lasers are for single ships, which you actually see firing at you, and they can kill you. In this case, it seems to be a case of "I don't think they'll notice, let's place minesweeper instead!".

As far as I know from the novels, the only things necessary for Slipspace travel are the Slipspace drive, and enough mass to hold together during exit into normal space, which Unyielding Heirophant would have, based upon its size. As for the dropships, that's another hole. Toward the end of First Strike, the Spartan II's use a Spirit dropship to drop out of Slipspace while the Gettysburg stays on course. Due to the dropship being tiny, it would normally shake itself to pieces during the transition. The team reinforced it using enough Titanium A beams that there was barely room to stand. When it finally did transition, the dropship was a broken wreck, with the beams and chassis mostly broken or melted.

I don't think it's entirely about the mass, I think it's more about how it's built. Take for instance the ship Halsey comandeers, it sounds about the same size as the Phantom or the Spirit, and it can go through Slipspace just fine and dandy without damaging the structure of the craft. And all the Covie craft except the Spirit are built rather aerodynamically you could say, the Spirit is not, it's got a funky shape that doesn't look like it'd hold up well from a Slipspace jump. Yes, the UNSC ships are not really close to aerodynamic and are a little blocky looking, but they still look like something that'd hold up from a jump. The way the Unyielding Heirophant is built, it doesn't sound like something that'd hold together from a jump, it doesn't sound like it's shaped the way most Covie craft and stations are. High Charity, however, holds to the "aerodynamic" design of Covenant craft and looks like something rock solid and able to easily go through Slipspace and come out in one piece.
High Charity is a big ball of hollowed out rock with engines on the back. Unyielding Heirophant wasn't a big ball, but rather a huge centre with docking stations on either end. Both have massive mass, so shape shouldn't be an issue. Especially considering apparently Banshees can now leave Slipspace perfectly intact, while Spirits can't.

As for the Chyloptera(sp?) class vessel Halsey took, it was designed as a stealth craft. Oni discontinued it because it broke down too often. It was specially designed to enter Slipspace and transition out of it with a very small wake. It would have taken them quite a while to get the design right.

  • 02.17.2011 2:16 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: spartanguy123
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: spartanguy123
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THIS?!!!!

ISN'T THE ANSWER SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS?!!!

Isn't it just possible that because they needed to have Reach take place in more than one day, that they just CHANGED the canon? Why can't you just accept the simple fact the new canon overwrites old canon? GOD!!!

If it's not a big deal for you I say that it shoult be altered for us who actually do care.

Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.

I can tell you're new to Halo, enjoy your stay.

  • 02.17.2011 2:36 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Evil Johnny

Posted by: spartanguy123
Why do you care? I just answered the huge mystery. New canon overwrites old canon.


That's the -blam!- problem dude. We were told until now that everything we read was canon and come to love it, now they're basically telling us it's all false, isn't it frustrating, don't you feel cheated? Why read Halo books anyway if they don't fit with the games and the true universe... I wasted more than a hundred of bucks for reading all that crap?

Don't worry friend, most of us have dismissed Halo: Reach instead.


Win!

  • 02.17.2011 4:41 PM PDT

Jesus loves you! But I think you're a -blam!-


Posted by: Hysterical Joker
It is very disappointing, given how enthralling and great the story is for The Fall of Reach and First Strike, not withstanding the obvious retcon issues. Even if they are re-making the novels to fix this, it will destroy a story that I very much preferred.
Agreed.

  • 02.17.2011 6:39 PM PDT

Posed By: chickenlittle
We don't know for sure for some battles. However, considering we know of at least a dozen others where the plasma was not used, and only one where it was, and that being an extremely desperate maneuver, the logical conclusion was that human fleets used conventional tactics, not using the plasma.


Sure, that's a logical conclusion, one I don't happen to agree with, but whatever.

What? The UNSC won because they had 3:1 odds. If it had been any less they would have lost every time. Please read privet caboose's post for sources of this.

You and Caboose can throw all the quotes and sources you want at me, but it's not going to change my opinion on the matter. I agree that the Covenant should be powerful and should win most of the time, but I do not think the books portray this in a good way, it feels completely illogical, almost stupid, because the way things are described the UNSC should not have had any wins whatsoever.

On the other hand, you'd have plenty of good chances. Plasma torpedoes aren't used against single ships, which can evade it. Only the the pulse lasers are for single ships, which you actually see firing at you, and they can kill you. In this case, it seems to be a case of "I don't think they'll notice, let's place minesweeper instead!".

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Other than the line about not using plasma torpedoes on small craft like Longsowrds and Sabres. And I'm not sure at all what you're trying to say with the minesweeper line.

High Charity is a big ball of hollowed out rock with engines on the back. Unyielding Heirophant wasn't a big ball, but rather a huge centre with docking stations on either end. Both have massive mass, so shape shouldn't be an issue. Especially considering apparently Banshees can now leave Slipspace perfectly intact, while Spirits can't.

As for the Chyloptera(sp?) class vessel Halsey took, it was designed as a stealth craft. Oni discontinued it because it broke down too often. It was specially designed to enter Slipspace and transition out of it with a very small wake. It would have taken them quite a while to get the design right.


Ok, rereading the description of Unyielding Heirophant it does sound like something structurally sound enough to move through Slipspace, I was always under the impression though that it was built there in preparation for the invasion.

I think coming out in one piece has more to do with the shape than the mass, and it might depend on the way the small craft are put through the jump. I think aerodynamics probably plays a small part in this, and the Spirit is not aerodynamically shaped at all, while every other Covenant ship is. Also, the Banshees you fight on the LNoS mission don't look the same as standard Banshees, they look a little more beefed up as well as sealed for space fairing.

  • 02.17.2011 7:16 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: OrderedComa

You and Caboose can throw all the quotes and sources you want at me, but it's not going to change my opinion on the matter. I agree that the Covenant should be powerful and should win most of the time, but I do not think the books portray this in a good way, it feels completely illogical, almost stupid, because the way things are described the UNSC should not have had any wins whatsoever.


And that there, is your opinion, and a twisted one at that. If the novels is the source that gave the 3:1 ratio of UNSC vs Covenant, and yet the novels also say that the UNSC did indeed have minor victories, then I don't see why there's any question whether the UNSC should have won battles or not, because they did, simply with superior numbers.

And again, as I've repeated several times and yet you seemed to simply ignore, the Covenant SHOULD be that strong. The way you go at this, you may as well claim that fire doesn't burn paper.

Seriously, explain why the UNSC wouldn't have won any battles if the novel descriptions of the Covenant were true.

*edited to make clear that I'm referring to UNSC vs Covenant overall, not the Battle of Reach.

[Edited on 02.17.2011 9:46 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2011 8:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: OrderedComa

You and Caboose can throw all the quotes and sources you want at me, but it's not going to change my opinion on the matter. I agree that the Covenant should be powerful and should win most of the time, but I do not think the books portray this in a good way, it feels completely illogical, almost stupid, because the way things are described the UNSC should not have had any wins whatsoever.


And that there, is your opinion, and a twisted one at that. If the novels is the source that gave the 3:1 ratio of UNSC vs Covenant, and yet the novels also say that the UNSC did indeed win, then I don't see why there's any question whether the UNSC should have won or not, because they did, simply with superior numbers.

And again, as I've repeated several times and yet you seemed to simply ignore, the Covenant SHOULD be that strong. The way you go at this, you may as well claim that fire doesn't burn paper.

Seriously, explain why the UNSC wouldn't have won if the novel descriptions of the Covenant were true.


When has Coma said the UNSC should win Reach? <_<

  • 02.17.2011 8:57 PM PDT
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Yeah, and the front covers no longer make sense.

  • 02.17.2011 9:06 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: OrderedComa

You and Caboose can throw all the quotes and sources you want at me, but it's not going to change my opinion on the matter. I agree that the Covenant should be powerful and should win most of the time, but I do not think the books portray this in a good way, it feels completely illogical, almost stupid, because the way things are described the UNSC should not have had any wins whatsoever.


And that there, is your opinion, and a twisted one at that. If the novels is the source that gave the 3:1 ratio of UNSC vs Covenant, and yet the novels also say that the UNSC did indeed win, then I don't see why there's any question whether the UNSC should have won or not, because they did, simply with superior numbers.

And again, as I've repeated several times and yet you seemed to simply ignore, the Covenant SHOULD be that strong. The way you go at this, you may as well claim that fire doesn't burn paper.

Seriously, explain why the UNSC wouldn't have won if the novel descriptions of the Covenant were true.


When has Coma said the UNSC should win Reach? <_<


Better question is how did you get the idea that I'm talking about UNSC winning the Battle of Reach?

  • 02.17.2011 9:39 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa
What? The UNSC won because they had 3:1 odds. If it had been any less they would have lost every time. Please read privet caboose's post for sources of this.

You and Caboose can throw all the quotes and sources you want at me, but it's not going to change my opinion on the matter. I agree that the Covenant should be powerful and should win most of the time, but I do not think the books portray this in a good way, it feels completely illogical, almost stupid, because the way things are described the UNSC should not have had any wins whatsoever.
The UNSC only won the victories they did because they had either superior numbers or a vastly better strategy(much rarer). The Covenant were better to an extent. That does not make them invincible, as you seem to be having trouble understanding.

On the other hand, you'd have plenty of good chances. Plasma torpedoes aren't used against single ships, which can evade it. Only the the pulse lasers are for single ships, which you actually see firing at you, and they can kill you. In this case, it seems to be a case of "I don't think they'll notice, let's place minesweeper instead!".

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Other than the line about not using plasma torpedoes on small craft like Longsowrds and Sabres. And I'm not sure at all what you're trying to say with the minesweeper line.
Sorry, that wasn't clear at all. Capital ships don't waste plasma torpedoes on single ships; they're for other capital ships. They use their pulse lasers for single ships. You see the corvette using these pulse lasers, trying to shoot the player and other Sabres out of space. Therefore, there is no reason not to put in the plasma torpedoes; instead, they sat around playing Minesweeper.

High Charity is a big ball of hollowed out rock with engines on the back. Unyielding Heirophant wasn't a big ball, but rather a huge centre with docking stations on either end. Both have massive mass, so shape shouldn't be an issue. Especially considering apparently Banshees can now leave Slipspace perfectly intact, while Spirits can't.

As for the Chyloptera(sp?) class vessel Halsey took, it was designed as a stealth craft. Oni discontinued it because it broke down too often. It was specially designed to enter Slipspace and transition out of it with a very small wake. It would have taken them quite a while to get the design right.


Ok, rereading the description of Unyielding Heirophant it does sound like something structurally sound enough to move through Slipspace, I was always under the impression though that it was built there in preparation for the invasion.

I think coming out in one piece has more to do with the shape than the mass, and it might depend on the way the small craft are put through the jump. I think aerodynamics probably plays a small part in this, and the Spirit is not aerodynamically shaped at all, while every other Covenant ship is. Also, the Banshees you fight on the LNoS mission don't look the same as standard Banshees, they look a little more beefed up as well as sealed for space fairing.
I forget where, but I'm certain one of the novels had a quote about what is necessary for successful Slipspace travel. Aerodynamics is a minor role, as there is no atmosphere in space. Shape only matters if it affects the structural integrity of the vessel. That only leaves mass as the biggest factor. As for those Banshees, environment sealing isn't going to do a whole lot to give it more mass. More importantly, where would they fit the Slipspace drive on board the things?

[Edited on 02.17.2011 10:28 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2011 10:28 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.

Posted by: OrderedComa

You and Caboose can throw all the quotes and sources you want at me, but it's not going to change my opinion on the matter.


Wow. That's ignorant.

  • 02.18.2011 6:19 AM PDT