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  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101
I still don't understand how we are suppose to belive that only small sections of reach were under attack while the holosphere of reach on the corrvette shows dozens of attack sites planet wide.



Everything started going to Hell in a handbasket once the Long Night of Solace decloaked at the end of Tip of the Spear, that's when things started going global. Before that they were just under attack in the Viery Territory


That makes it worse then, becuase if reach was under attack by that many ships with no defenses it shouldn't have lasted weeks.



You missed what I was saying, I was saying things started to go downhill after the Super Carrier was revealed, that doesn't mean the defenses were lost when the LNoS decloaked, that means that's when things started to go bad and the Covenant really started pressing in. And nowhere does it say in the game that Reach has lost its defenses by that time.

  • 02.27.2011 8:15 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101
I still don't understand how we are suppose to belive that only small sections of reach were under attack while the holosphere of reach on the corrvette shows dozens of attack sites planet wide.



Everything started going to Hell in a handbasket once the Long Night of Solace decloaked at the end of Tip of the Spear, that's when things started going global. Before that they were just under attack in the Viery Territory


That makes it worse then, becuase if reach was under attack by that many ships with no defenses it shouldn't have lasted weeks.



You missed what I was saying, I was saying things started to go downhill after the Super Carrier was revealed, that doesn't mean the defenses were lost when the LNoS decloaked, that means that's when things started to go bad and the Covenant really started pressing in. And nowhere does it say in the game that Reach has lost its defenses by that time.


Infact, the 343 video concerning Reach states on August 30th a fleet dwarfing any other the UNSC had seen is size arrived and 'swept aside' the remaining defenses.

Meaning, the defenses were still present. The MAC cannons were described as being together, not that hard to avoid them by sitting on the other side of the planet.

  • 02.27.2011 8:25 PM PDT

On hiding dead bodies:
Posted by: Psuedo
Posted by: teh Chaz
Inside another dead body. It's the last place they'll look
A corpse within a corpse.
CORPSEPTION.
Win.

I prefer to reject the new story by Reach, as it takes a story built for a game and attempts to knit it into the book story by literally stitching the two together.

The fact that one Supercarrier (regardless of size and shield capacity that I have worked out elsewhere) could linger for days on end and blat defences from the sky is simply ludicrous.
The fact that the defences were able to survive against this until a 'much larger fleet' arrived is also stupid. We have something that should not exist with the capability to obliterate everything Reach had and more, and not using it. Then a large fleet appears from nowhere, and finishes the job that should already be complete.

I find no cohesion or sense in the story.

  • 02.28.2011 3:42 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: manwith
The real battle didn't start until August 30.


The real battle started on the 14th.

Source? What page?


...there is no "page." Everything regarding the invasion in the books is now obsolete and isn't reliable information, thanks to Reach.

But the Long Night of Solace mission took place on the 14th, which is also when the first invading army appeared.

You were supposed to say "Halo: Reach", and then I would reply with "Pfft, fanfic".

=(

  • 02.28.2011 9:13 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
I prefer to reject the new story by Reach, as it takes a story built for a game and attempts to knit it into the book story by literally stitching the two together.

The fact that one Supercarrier (regardless of size and shield capacity that I have worked out elsewhere) could linger for days on end and blat defences from the sky is simply ludicrous.
The fact that the defences were able to survive against this until a 'much larger fleet' arrived is also stupid. We have something that should not exist with the capability to obliterate everything Reach had and more, and not using it. Then a large fleet appears from nowhere, and finishes the job that should already be complete.

I find no cohesion or sense in the story.

There's plot in the action here, not action in the plot.

  • 02.28.2011 9:16 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: privet caboose
...there is no "page." Everything regarding the invasion in the books is now obsolete and isn't reliable information, thanks to Reach.
This has been around since Halo 3: ODST.

That's because Reach was far into development when ODST got released. They knew they had to fit more nonsense into the campaign, so they made the battle last longer.

  • 02.28.2011 9:19 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I would hardly say the Fall of Reach is no longer canon.

The Fall of Reach and Halo Reach don't truly conflict in such DRASTIC ways. The most conflicts is directly around the battle itself. The rest of the book? Completely untouched.


1) Master Chief was never on the surface during the entire Reach battle.

2) Cortana was also not on the surface during the entire Reach battle

3) The Spartan III's in Reach were all dead according to Ghosts of Onyx.

4) Halsey knew little to nothing about the Spartan III's at the time of the Reach game.

5) The Covenant invasion was nowhere near as long as the game made it out to be.

6) Keyes was not on Reach during the invasion.

7) If MC was on Reach, where was the other two Spartans that were with him if he didn't go to the station? Yes, there were originally three Spartans on the Pillar of Autumn, two of which were lost in an even the Reach game omitted. This is two Spartans who are now MIA entirely. One could argue they are located somewhere else on the ship but why is MC the only one in a cryotube?

8) Master Chief was the first Spartan who received the shielded armor upgrade on Reach. The only Spartan II's to receive it were the ones present on Reach at the time and seeing as it was brand new it makes absolutely no sense for there to be so many variations of it already in use by the non-existent Spartan III's.


There is tons of inconsistencies between the game and the original story in the novel. TONS. It is ignorant to say that the rest of the story was "complete untouched".

  • 03.01.2011 12:13 AM PDT

Posted By:
1) Master Chief was never on the surface during the entire Reach battle.


What exactly are you saying here? Chief isn't on the ground during the whole Battle of Reach in the game either O_o

2) Cortana was also not on the surface during the entire Reach battle

I assume you are talking about how you have to deliver Cortana to the Autumn? If you are then you should know that the "Cortana" Six delivers to the Autumn is only a fragment, the "real" Cortana is already on the Autumn. If that's not what you're talking about then you'll need to explain yourself better.

3) The Spartan III's in Reach were all dead according to Ghosts of Onyx.

Yes, but new canon outranks old, and the new canon that goes with Reach states that Kurt and Mendez pulled the best Spartans from each company before it was sent on its suicide op and formed into Headhunter teams, or larger teams like Noble that would be sent on the sort of mission an SII would.

4) Halsey knew little to nothing about the Spartan III's at the time of the Reach game.

And that is exactly how it is Reach, she doesn't have any idea what Noble Team is except that they're not her Spartans, well besides Jorge. Her knowing about Noble Team changes nothing, except making her more distrustful of ONI and making it have even more meaning when she finds out that Ackerson had gone rooting through the medical files of the SIIs.

5) The Covenant invasion was nowhere near as long as the game made it out to be.

As I said earlier, new canon outranks old, and honestly, something like Reach falling in under two hours is absolutely ludicrous. It just contradicts common sense and what the books have told us about the UNSC's military might. Falling about two weeks makes a hell of a lot more sense.

6) Keyes was not on Reach during the invasion.

Obviously he was at some point. And this point is hardly an inconsistency, this is just nitpicking small details.

7) If MC was on Reach, where was the other two Spartans that were with him if he didn't go to the station? Yes, there were originally three Spartans on the Pillar of Autumn, two of which were lost in an even the Reach game omitted. This is two Spartans who are now MIA entirely. One could argue they are located somewhere else on the ship but why is MC the only one in a cryotube?

Actually all the Spartans were on the Autumn originally, it would seem like you need to reread the book. The two other Spartans you are talking about are Linda and James. If the Autumn was indeed on Reach the entire time, then they would be with Red Team at the generators. However there is no evidence indicating that the Circumference OP no longer happened, and even if it's pushed back, it can still happen. If it happened on the 30th still, then the Autumn would simply go down to the surface of Reach after it had picked up Chief, Johnson, Linda, and the other marines from Station Gamma.
And you honestly think seeing that Spartan in the cryo tube after Keyes returns to the Autumn has any bearing on canon? It's a -blam!-ing easter egg, it has the same amount of meaning to the canon as seeing Buck pick stuff out of a monkey's back at the end of ODST, or the Grunts and the Brute dancing to the music in that club on New Alexandria.

8) Master Chief was the first Spartan who received the shielded armor upgrade on Reach. The only Spartan II's to receive it were the ones present on Reach at the time and seeing as it was brand new it makes absolutely no sense for there to be so many variations of it already in use by the non-existent Spartan III's.

Reach did not state anything about the Mark V being given to every single Spartan. I see nothing at all wrong with Noble Team having armor similar to Mark V, they're valuable assets who are just like the SIIs, the only difference between Noble and the SIIs is their class distinction. And the armor pieces in Reach don't have any affect on the armor, even in canon, most of them would not offer any changes to the armor, and hell, there's nothing to indicate that they're new, except for the Mark V helmet.

There is tons of inconsistencies between the game and the original story in the novel. TONS. It is ignorant to say that the rest of the story was "complete untouched".

Only in your mind, and every other person who is deeply offended that there were any changes made. You'll find "mistakes" or "inconsistencies" in anything if you nit-pick it enough, hell, even the other Halo books or games contradict each other if you hyper-analyze them like people are doing with Reach.

  • 03.01.2011 8:51 AM PDT

To add onto Coma's final bit of his last post, I say this.

You guys who are hyper-analyzing the campaign of Reach, do this. Take that same fine-tooth comb of hyper-analyzing for details to the other books, and games.

You must bring up/list EVERY little change/inconstancy between two games, novels, or any pairing.

While the above statement from me is a joke, it points out a fun detail. If you wanted to rage about every tiny detail, you'll ruin the lore/experience for yourself only, and not enjoy it. ANY expanding universe's lore will have details that conflict. Halo, being told from many viewpoints who see different areas in a different light, or are overseen by ONI, won't give the same image all the time.

  • 03.01.2011 10:38 AM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
To add onto Coma's final bit of his last post, I say this.

You guys who are hyper-analyzing the campaign of Reach, do this. Take that same fine-tooth comb of hyper-analyzing for details to the other books, and games.

You must bring up/list EVERY little change/inconstancy between two games, novels, or any pairing.

While the above statement from me is a joke, it points out a fun detail. If you wanted to rage about every tiny detail, you'll ruin the lore/experience for yourself only, and not enjoy it. ANY expanding universe's lore will have details that conflict. Halo, being told from many viewpoints who see different areas in a different light, or are overseen by ONI, won't give the same image all the time.
We already -blam!- know that there are inconsistencies in every single game and novel. We accept this. Sometimes it's for gameplay(such as the raw power of Covenant weapons), sometimes it's limit of technology at the time.

The problem here is the sheer quantity of them, and the scope of the big ones involved. If we're going to find them everywhere without even -blam!- looking for them, we may as well start looking to find more. It was completely unnecessary, completely unwarranted, and completely unwanted.

  • 03.01.2011 7:03 PM PDT

Posted by: Changsta inc
Racism isn't wrong if it's funny.

Everything Bungie puts in a game is instantly canon over any book.

Correction: Orbital Macs

In the Defiant Map Pack you fight on an orbital Mac station. So they are in Reach, you just never fully interact with them, until now that is.

-n

  • 03.02.2011 12:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Nannerpus
Everything Bungie puts in a game is instantly canon over any book.

Correction: Orbital Macs

In the Defiant Map Pack you fight on an orbital Mac station. So they are in Reach, you just never fully interact with them, until now that is.

-n


I think it's the station that Chief and Linda went onto during the battle actually.

Either way, the Orbital MAC stations were described as being together. The Super carrier wouldn't sit in orbit within visual range of that defensive line.

  • 03.02.2011 3:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Nannerpus
Everything Bungie puts in a game is instantly canon over any book.

Correction: Orbital Macs

In the Defiant Map Pack you fight on an orbital Mac station. So they are in Reach, you just never fully interact with them, until now that is.

-n


I think it's the station that Chief and Linda went onto during the battle actually.

Either way, the Orbital MAC stations were described as being together. The Super carrier wouldn't sit in orbit within visual range of that defensive line.


Yeah, Condemned is supposed to be where the Circumference was docked, Reach Station Gamma I believe its name is.

Mhmm, any sane commander wouldn't bring his ship near the whole defensive line all by himself, he'd require some form of backup, and the Corvettes can't really provide that against something like the SMACs.

  • 03.02.2011 3:42 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
To add onto Coma's final bit of his last post, I say this.

You guys who are hyper-analyzing the campaign of Reach, do this. Take that same fine-tooth comb of hyper-analyzing for details to the other books, and games.

You must bring up/list EVERY little change/inconstancy between two games, novels, or any pairing.

While the above statement from me is a joke, it points out a fun detail. If you wanted to rage about every tiny detail, you'll ruin the lore/experience for yourself only, and not enjoy it. ANY expanding universe's lore will have details that conflict. Halo, being told from many viewpoints who see different areas in a different light, or are overseen by ONI, won't give the same image all the time.

Translation: Boohoo stop discussing with me.

  • 03.02.2011 4:26 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Nannerpus
Everything Bungie puts in a game is instantly canon over any book.

Correction: Orbital Macs

In the Defiant Map Pack you fight on an orbital Mac station. So they are in Reach, you just never fully interact with them, until now that is.

-n


I think it's the station that Chief and Linda went onto during the battle actually.

Either way, the Orbital MAC stations were described as being together. The Super carrier wouldn't sit in orbit within visual range of that defensive line.


Yeah, Condemned is supposed to be where the Circumference was docked, Reach Station Gamma I believe its name is.

Mhmm, any sane commander wouldn't bring his ship near the whole defensive line all by himself, he'd require some form of backup, and the Corvettes can't really provide that against something like the SMACs.

What about that suicidal commander above the mass driver?

[Edited on 03.02.2011 5:15 PM PST]

  • 03.02.2011 5:12 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Nannerpus
Everything Bungie puts in a game is instantly canon over any book.

Correction: Orbital Macs

In the Defiant Map Pack you fight on an orbital Mac station. So they are in Reach, you just never fully interact with them, until now that is.

-n


I think it's the station that Chief and Linda went onto during the battle actually.

Either way, the Orbital MAC stations were described as being together. The Super carrier wouldn't sit in orbit within visual range of that defensive line.


Yeah, Condemned is supposed to be where the Circumference was docked, Reach Station Gamma I believe its name is.

Mhmm, any sane commander wouldn't bring his ship near the whole defensive line all by himself, he'd require some form of backup, and the Corvettes can't really provide that against something like the SMACs.

What about that suicidal commander above the mass driver?


At the end of Reach? I'd hardly call him suicidal. He may have not even known the mass driver was there, as it was less obvious then an orbital Super MAC platform.

The Super MACs could punch through the shields on the ship, that mass driver had to wait for the CCS clas battlecruiser to drop it's shields before firing.

  • 03.02.2011 5:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Nannerpus
Everything Bungie puts in a game is instantly canon over any book.

Correction: Orbital Macs

In the Defiant Map Pack you fight on an orbital Mac station. So they are in Reach, you just never fully interact with them, until now that is.

-n


I think it's the station that Chief and Linda went onto during the battle actually.

Either way, the Orbital MAC stations were described as being together. The Super carrier wouldn't sit in orbit within visual range of that defensive line.


Yeah, Condemned is supposed to be where the Circumference was docked, Reach Station Gamma I believe its name is.

Mhmm, any sane commander wouldn't bring his ship near the whole defensive line all by himself, he'd require some form of backup, and the Corvettes can't really provide that against something like the SMACs.

What about that suicidal commander above the mass driver?


At the end of Reach? I'd hardly call him suicidal. He may have not even known the mass driver was there, as it was less obvious then an orbital Super MAC platform.

The Super MACs could punch through the shields on the ship, that mass driver had to wait for the CCS clas battlecruiser to drop it's shields before firing.


^This

I would assume that the guy commander didn't know about it (least likely option), he thought it had been taken out by his Zealot team , or that it would be taken offline by all the Phantoms. And the Cruiser didn't die anyway, you just brought it's energy projector offline, the Mass Driver lacks the power to do any sort of overly significant damage to a ship of that size.

  • 03.02.2011 5:47 PM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
The kick in the balls for me regarding the game was the so called "military might" of the UNSC at the time. Where were all the mac platforms? where was the fleet? Tip of the Spear gave only about 2% of the UNSC forces on Reach. Someone wanna try and explain this to me?


There were few MAC platforms in orbit of Reach, and all have been described as being in a formation together. The super Carrier would not be within visual range of that cluster, and Anchor nine (A shipyard) might not either. The fleet was around the MAC platforms, and with Kat's plan they didn't need to sacrifice a number of ships to attack the Super-Carrier.

  • 03.06.2011 5:42 AM PDT

I personally choose to ignore the errors and just focus on enjoying the Halo Universe for what it is. I love the books especially Eric Nynland's novels but I find the Halo universe to be pretty awesome in general so I don't really notice the pretty glaring errors in the canon.

  • 03.06.2011 7:38 AM PDT


Posted by: Entreri10
I personally choose to ignore the errors and just focus on enjoying the Halo Universe for what it is. I love the books especially Eric Nynland's novels but I find the Halo universe to be pretty awesome in general so I don't really notice the pretty glaring errors in the canon.


If an error is glaring, I'll notice it. If an error/issue is minor, I may notice it, but choose to ignore it (Such as in the one book, they crash a longsword into the ship and destroy the pelican. Later on they salvage gear from the crashed longsword, only now it's called a pelican.)

  • 03.06.2011 7:45 AM PDT

Let's be honest, it could be a lot worse.

I don't see why Carter, Jun and Emile shouldn't be alive. Bungie never explained how Johnson lived and yet he was still around.

  • 03.06.2011 8:40 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Fly Boy 2113
I don't see why Carter, Jun and Emile shouldn't be alive. Bungie never explained how Johnson lived and yet he was still around.


...yes they did explain how Johnson lived.

The HGN and First Strike show/explain how he survived and made it back to Earth...

  • 03.06.2011 8:48 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

I would assume that the guy commander didn't know about it (least likely option), he thought it had been taken out by his Zealot team , or that it would be taken offline by all the Phantoms. And the Cruiser didn't die anyway, you just brought it's energy projector offline, the Mass Driver lacks the power to do any sort of overly significant damage to a ship of that size.

The cruiser crashed to the ground...

  • 03.09.2011 1:43 PM PDT