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This topic has moved here: Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
  • Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)
Subject: Unexplainable errors in the Halo canon. (Spoilers)


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

I would assume that the guy commander didn't know about it (least likely option), he thought it had been taken out by his Zealot team , or that it would be taken offline by all the Phantoms. And the Cruiser didn't die anyway, you just brought it's energy projector offline, the Mass Driver lacks the power to do any sort of overly significant damage to a ship of that size.

The cruiser crashed to the ground...


And we don't know if it could have launched again...

  • 03.09.2011 1:49 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

I would assume that the guy commander didn't know about it (least likely option), he thought it had been taken out by his Zealot team , or that it would be taken offline by all the Phantoms. And the Cruiser didn't die anyway, you just brought it's energy projector offline, the Mass Driver lacks the power to do any sort of overly significant damage to a ship of that size.

The cruiser crashed to the ground...
Point it out to me where I can see the Cruiser crashed, I'm not doubting you or anything, I just want to see for myself, because I've never seen it crash or anything, it looked to me from the cutscene that it was limping off with its tail between its legs like the Corvette you damage on Exodus.

  • 03.09.2011 8:02 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
What exactly are you saying here? Chief isn't on the ground during the whole Battle of Reach in the game either O_o

This is arguing Semantics. The PoA was still in "drydock" in the Reach game when in the original story it was already in space about to start its mission to destroy the Covenant homeworld. Surface = in atmosphere at this point.


I assume you are talking about how you have to deliver Cortana to the Autumn? If you are then you should know that the "Cortana" Six delivers to the Autumn is only a fragment, the "real" Cortana is already on the Autumn. If that's not what you're talking about then you'll need to explain yourself better.

I read the notebook, its a crappy substitute. A nice try but not enough. The point is that Cortana as well as the PoA should have been in orbit, not on the surface of Reach.

Yes, but new canon outranks old, and the new canon that goes with Reach states that Kurt and Mendez pulled the best Spartans from each company before it was sent on its suicide op and formed into Headhunter teams, or larger teams like Noble that would be sent on the sort of mission an SII would.
Cop out. The books say nothing of the sort. There is no room for such canon rewriting. It destroys two characters of the book entirely which were important merely because they were the only ones that survived. They are now pointless characters that should mean nothing to Kurt. Yay for destroying plot devices and character development.


And that is exactly how it is Reach, she doesn't have any idea what Noble Team is except that they're not her Spartans, well besides Jorge. Her knowing about Noble Team changes nothing, except making her more distrustful of ONI and making it have even more meaning when she finds out that Ackerson had gone rooting through the medical files of the SIIs.

She knew little to nothing, AKA noble team didn't exist to her. All she knew was Ackerson had something going on. Noble team in the picture means she has physically seen and interacted with Spartan III's, knows their capabilities, etc. She knows a great deal about them especially due to her role in the game.

As I said earlier, new canon outranks old,You are clearly missing the point. This doesn't work. "New cannon outranks old" is a cop out and bull. It basically means that at any given time what we spent our time reading up on and learning because we enjoyed the universe and lore could be rendered moot, a waste of time. This is why heavy retcons such as this irritate those educated in the lore. Because we now have to re-learn what we already spent time learning just because the whim of the story writers.

and honestly, something like Reach falling in under two hours is absolutely ludicrous. It just contradicts common sense and what the books have told us about the UNSC's military might. Falling about two weeks makes a hell of a lot more sense.
The books have told us that in a space battle the UNSC needs at LEAST a 3:1 ration to win. At Reach, this was hardly the case. Almost the entire UNSC navy was destroyed defending Reach. The only reason the battle lasted as long as it did is because the UNSC sacrificed a large medical/engineer ship to save a large portion of the fleet. Once the MAC defense grid fell, the planet fell. Once the Covenant have superiority in orbit the planet is lost.


Actually all the Spartans were on the Autumn originally, it would seem like you need to reread the book.

I'm talking about during the attack. Red Team and a portion of Blue Team were sent to the surface to defend the MAC grid generators (which also brings to light how the hell a covenant ship got past that enormous wall of guns). Then MC and two Spartans were sent to a station to keep a ships data records from being snagged by the Covenant (which also makes you wonder if that was ever defended in Reach and if the Covenant had just bypassed several games worth of content because MC wasn't there to keep it from happening. Or perhaps that entire event just doesn't happen and therefore more character development is lost).


The two other Spartans you are talking about are Linda and James. If the Autumn was indeed on Reach the entire time, then they would be with Red Team at the generators. However there is no evidence indicating that the Circumference OP no longer happened, and even if it's pushed back, it can still happen. If it happened on the 30th still, then the Autumn would simply go down to the surface of Reach after it had picked up Chief, Johnson, Linda, and the other marines from Station Gamma.
And you honestly think seeing that Spartan in the cryo tube after Keyes returns to the Autumn has any bearing on canon? It's a -blam!-ing easter egg, it has the same amount of meaning to the canon as seeing Buck pick stuff out of a monkey's back at the end of ODST, or the Grunts and the Brute dancing to the music in that club on New Alexandria.

Reading into the specifics. Not necessarily about him being in a cryotube but mostly about him being the only one there. And while you are right that the PoA could have just come afterwards the situation originally called for them to leave ASAP after the operation on the station was complete in an effort to continue their mission. But the Reach game dictates with the above assumption that they had time to dilly dally around for a much longer period of time in Orbit without being shot down. Or possibly had enough time to dock their ship on the surface of the planet without being shot down or blown up during a global invasion.

Reach did not state anything about the Mark V being given to every single Spartan.
It was given to all active Spartans on Reach after MC's test run (although shortly after most of them die on Reach).


I see nothing at all wrong with Noble Team having armor similar to Mark V, they're valuable assets who are just like the SIIs, the only difference between Noble and the SIIs is their class distinction. And the armor pieces in Reach don't have any affect on the armor, even in canon, most of them would not offer any changes to the armor, and hell, there's nothing to indicate that they're new, except for the Mark V helmet.

It is not just "similar", even from a mechanical standpoint. The only thing "different" is that it has hundreds of variations and add-ons which would be physically impossible to produce in such a short period of time. It doesn't matter if it changes its function, it would be like having 60 different hoods for your car the day after the car was tested for its viability on the road. It doesn't make any sense. Not only that, but just any old armor piece shouldn't work with the armor. It was a self contained system (which is proven in the Reach book as Spartans replaced their armor with armor from other Spartans).

Only in your mind, and every other person who is deeply offended that there were any changes made. You'll find "mistakes" or "inconsistencies" in anything if you nit-pick it enough, hell, even the other Halo books or games contradict each other if you hyper-analyze them like people are doing with Reach.
Alright, list a book before Contact Harvest that directly contradicts a previous book. Hell list a game that directly contradicts the books in terms of events, character importance, etc. I doubt you will find anything that fits that criteria more vividly than the Reach game. In fact, not even Contact Harvest screwed with cannon as much as Reach does. The biggest screw-up being the Spartan III's themselves.

  • 03.10.2011 1:25 PM PDT

Life's a game. How do you play?

Having read these novels, I can officially say: "Damn f---ing straight they broke the canon!" What in God's name were the guys at Bungie doing? I understand, they didn't write the books, but seriously, read your fanbase. They can actually give you good ideas - I know, shocking. Even if you didn't want to use these stories in their entirety, than at least include these tales as a base for your own. Breaking with your own canon is not a good way to make friends (unless you're doing it completely on purpose, as is the case with Star Wars: The Force Unleashed Sith missions; killing Vader, throwing Ben Kenobi into the Millenium Falcon's engines, and drop kicking Ewoks never gets old). Ah well. Let's see what 343 can do.

  • 03.11.2011 4:58 PM PDT

Posted By: UL7IM4 G33K
This is arguing Semantics. The PoA was still in "drydock" in the Reach game when in the original story it was already in space about to start its mission to destroy the Covenant homeworld. Surface = in atmosphere at this point.


There is no indication at all that it was in drydock the entire game. When Dot says her lines about the Autumn being in Aszod, it is in the later morning of the 30th, after the Autumn would have extracted Blue Team, or the events occurring on the 30th are pushed back a bit and then it would be on the surface earlier, but it would be some time between 14th and the 30th.

I read the notebook, its a crappy substitute. A nice try but not enough. The point is that Cortana as well as the PoA should have been in orbit, not on the surface of Reach.

Cop out. The books say nothing of the sort. There is no room for such canon rewriting. It destroys two characters of the book entirely which were important merely because they were the only ones that survived. They are now pointless characters that should mean nothing to Kurt. Yay for destroying plot devices and character development.


Did you miss that it wasn't Cortana that you deliver in Reach? It's a fragment, meaning, not all of Cortana, a small piece. The "real" Cortana is already on the Autumn.

What exactly are you trying to say here, you're not making much sense, or maybe my brain isn't making sense of it 'cause I'm tired, oh well. Are you talking about Tom and Lucy, or Kurt and Mendez? And how on earth does Mendez and Kurt ruin anybody being "special" and make them pointless?
I do get what you mean about saying it's a cop out though, it's not. That ranking of canon has been in place well before Halo: Reach was ever heard about by the fans, it's been around at least as long as Contact Harvest.

She knew little to nothing, AKA noble team didn't exist to her. All she knew was Ackerson had something going on. Noble team in the picture means she has physically seen and interacted with Spartan III's, knows their capabilities, etc. She knows a great deal about them especially due to her role in the game.

She always had an idea of what to expect from the SIIIs once she knew about them, they were Spartan IIIs after all. And just because one has seen something and knows something of its capabilities does not mean they know a great deal about it. Halsey knew next to nothing about the SIIIs except what she was able to glean from the files and what she knew of Noble Team.

You are clearly missing the point. This doesn't work. "New cannon outranks old" is a cop out and bull. It basically means that at any given time what we spent our time reading up on and learning because we enjoyed the universe and lore could be rendered moot, a waste of time. This is why heavy retcons such as this irritate those educated in the lore. Because we now have to re-learn what we already spent time learning just because the whim of the story writers.

Bungie has used this policy ever since they first announced how canon was ranked. And Bungie can do whatever the hell they want, or rather 343 now, it's their story, you may not like what they do, but there is nothing you can do about it, and -blam!-ing about it won't change anything. I'm just about as educated in the Halo lore as the prominent members of the Universe forum, and I relish any new information, if it's something I enjoy, like Halo, more stuff to learn is always a good thing for me. And it's not Bungie/343's policy to just throw stuff out willy-nilly unless there is a need to, frankly I thought TFoR had a lot of stuff that did not make sense and really mesh with other aspects of canon, nothing has really been thrown out. Everything still works, you just have to use your common sense and find the ways, or wait until Bungie/343 releases more info to tie TFoR and Reach together.

The books have told us that in a space battle the UNSC needs at LEAST a 3:1 ration to win. At Reach, this was hardly the case. Almost the entire UNSC navy was destroyed defending Reach. The only reason the battle lasted as long as it did is because the UNSC sacrificed a large medical/engineer ship to save a large portion of the fleet. Once the MAC defense grid fell, the planet fell. Once the Covenant have superiority in orbit the planet is lost.

The UNSC had just about the same odds as they always did when engaging the Covies in a space battle at Reach, plus the 20 SMACs, that is enough to make the battle last a good god damned longer than two hours. Having the orbital defenses completely smashed in about two hours is having the Covenant forces being portrayed as vastly over-powered and the UNSC force being portrayed as vastly underpowered. This would make the book contradict itself and other Halo media, as the odds were the exact same as at other battles until the arrival of the second Covenant fleet.

I'm talking about during the attack. Red Team and a portion of Blue Team were sent to the surface to defend the MAC grid generators (which also brings to light how the hell a covenant ship got past that enormous wall of guns). Then MC and two Spartans were sent to a station to keep a ships data records from being snagged by the Covenant (which also makes you wonder if that was ever defended in Reach and if the Covenant had just bypassed several games worth of content because MC wasn't there to keep it from happening. Or perhaps that entire event just doesn't happen and therefore more character development is lost).

Do you mean the Super Carrier? Easy, there are only 20, or 25 can't remember which it is, SMACs, and they are all close to the same area, they're spread out around the planet like at Earth. It would be very easy for a ship to slip past the SMACs. We don't know where exactly the Vierry Territory is in relation to the SMACs, and Vierry is basically the middle of nowhere. The Circumference event still happens, either on the 30th or sometime between the 14th and the 30th.

Reading into the specifics. Not necessarily about him being in a cryotube but mostly about him being the only one there. And while you are right that the PoA could have just come afterwards the situation originally called for them to leave ASAP after the operation on the station was complete in an effort to continue their mission. But the Reach game dictates with the above assumption that they had time to dilly dally around for a much longer period of time in Orbit without being shot down. Or possibly had enough time to dock their ship on the surface of the planet without being shot down or blown up during a global invasion.

It's an easter egg, it doesn't matter if he's the only one or not, since easter eggs are non-canon and all. Changing the situation and timing of the end sequence of TFoR would be a very minor retcon on par with changing when the Elites first appeared in the war.

It is not just "similar", even from a mechanical standpoint. The only thing "different" is that it has hundreds of variations and add-ons which would be physically impossible to produce in such a short period of time. It doesn't matter if it changes its function, it would be like having 60 different hoods for your car the day after the car was tested for its viability on the road. It doesn't make any sense. Not only that, but just any old armor piece shouldn't work with the armor. It was a self contained system (which is proven in the Reach book as Spartans replaced their armor with armor from other Spartans).

The different armor pieces are completely unconnected to vital functions of the Mjolnir armor. Different shoulder pieces or chest pieces, helmets, or knee guards would not have affect on its functionality. And seeing as the CQB helmet was in use before Reach and the introduction of Mark V you don't know for certain what is new armor and what has been in use with the Mark IV and merely carried over to use in Mark V.

Alright, list a book before Contact Harvest that directly contradicts a previous book. Hell list a game that directly contradicts the books in terms of events, character importance, etc. I doubt you will find anything that fits that criteria more vividly than the Reach game. In fact, not even Contact Harvest screwed with cannon as much as Reach does. The biggest screw-up being the Spartan III's themselves.

I don't know if I'll come up with many, I don't own the books, and I'm not a nitpicker so I've never looked for them, so we'll see what we get.

TFoR, the MAC gun for the Autumn is off line, then in Halo: CE and the Flood it is suddenly online again.

The Elite in the Flood picking up the Magnum and executing the bridge crew of the Autumn except for Keyes. First problem with that is there are other Humans with Keyes when you rescue him in CE, and they are in officer type uniforms, and the bridge crew all left together in the Flood, which would mean that the Flood contradicts CE. And the second problem lies with the Elite using the Magnum, the Covies don't use human weaponry, except for the Brutes, GoO states that Covies died instead of picking up fully loaded human weapons lying right next to them.

That's all I got right now.

  • 03.11.2011 8:55 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By: UL7IM4 G33K
This is arguing Semantics. The PoA was still in "drydock" in the Reach game when in the original story it was already in space about to start its mission to destroy the Covenant homeworld. Surface = in atmosphere at this point.


There is no indication at all that it was in drydock the entire game. When Dot says her lines about the Autumn being in Aszod, it is in the later morning of the 30th, after the Autumn would have extracted Blue Team, or the events occurring on the 30th are pushed back a bit and then it would be on the surface earlier, but it would be some time between 14th and the 30th.

I read the notebook, its a crappy substitute. A nice try but not enough. The point is that Cortana as well as the PoA should have been in orbit, not on the surface of Reach.

Cop out. The books say nothing of the sort. There is no room for such canon rewriting. It destroys two characters of the book entirely which were important merely because they were the only ones that survived. They are now pointless characters that should mean nothing to Kurt. Yay for destroying plot devices and character development.


Did you miss that it wasn't Cortana that you deliver in Reach? It's a fragment, meaning, not all of Cortana, a small piece. The "real" Cortana is already on the Autumn.

What exactly are you trying to say here, you're not making much sense, or maybe my brain isn't making sense of it 'cause I'm tired, oh well. Are you talking about Tom and Lucy, or Kurt and Mendez? And how on earth does Mendez and Kurt ruin anybody being "special" and make them pointless?
I do get what you mean about saying it's a cop out though, it's not. That ranking of canon has been in place well before Halo: Reach was ever heard about by the fans, it's been around at least as long as Contact Harvest.

She knew little to nothing, AKA noble team didn't exist to her. All she knew was Ackerson had something going on. Noble team in the picture means she has physically seen and interacted with Spartan III's, knows their capabilities, etc. She knows a great deal about them especially due to her role in the game.

She always had an idea of what to expect from the SIIIs once she knew about them, they were Spartan IIIs after all. And just because one has seen something and knows something of its capabilities does not mean they know a great deal about it. Halsey knew next to nothing about the SIIIs except what she was able to glean from the files and what she knew of Noble Team.

You are clearly missing the point. This doesn't work. "New cannon outranks old" is a cop out and bull. It basically means that at any given time what we spent our time reading up on and learning because we enjoyed the universe and lore could be rendered moot, a waste of time. This is why heavy retcons such as this irritate those educated in the lore. Because we now have to re-learn what we already spent time learning just because the whim of the story writers.

Bungie has used this policy ever since they first announced how canon was ranked. And Bungie can do whatever the hell they want, or rather 343 now, it's their story, you may not like what they do, but there is nothing you can do about it, and -blam!-ing about it won't change anything. I'm just about as educated in the Halo lore as the prominent members of the Universe forum, and I relish any new information, if it's something I enjoy, like Halo, more stuff to learn is always a good thing for me. And it's not Bungie/343's policy to just throw stuff out willy-nilly unless there is a need to, frankly I thought TFoR had a lot of stuff that did not make sense and really mesh with other aspects of canon, nothing has really been thrown out. Everything still works, you just have to use your common sense and find the ways, or wait until Bungie/343 releases more info to tie TFoR and Reach together.

The books have told us that in a space battle the UNSC needs at LEAST a 3:1 ration to win. At Reach, this was hardly the case. Almost the entire UNSC navy was destroyed defending Reach. The only reason the battle lasted as long as it did is because the UNSC sacrificed a large medical/engineer ship to save a large portion of the fleet. Once the MAC defense grid fell, the planet fell. Once the Covenant have superiority in orbit the planet is lost.

The UNSC had just about the same odds as they always did when engaging the Covies in a space battle at Reach, plus the 20 SMACs, that is enough to make the battle last a good god damned longer than two hours. Having the orbital defenses completely smashed in about two hours is having the Covenant forces being portrayed as vastly over-powered and the UNSC force being portrayed as vastly underpowered. This would make the book contradict itself and other Halo media, as the odds were the exact same as at other battles until the arrival of the second Covenant fleet.

I'm talking about during the attack. Red Team and a portion of Blue Team were sent to the surface to defend the MAC grid generators (which also brings to light how the hell a covenant ship got past that enormous wall of guns). Then MC and two Spartans were sent to a station to keep a ships data records from being snagged by the Covenant (which also makes you wonder if that was ever defended in Reach and if the Covenant had just bypassed several games worth of content because MC wasn't there to keep it from happening. Or perhaps that entire event just doesn't happen and therefore more character development is lost).

Do you mean the Super Carrier? Easy, there are only 20, or 25 can't remember which it is, SMACs, and they are all close to the same area, they're spread out around the planet like at Earth. It would be very easy for a ship to slip past the SMACs. We don't know where exactly the Vierry Territory is in relation to the SMACs, and Vierry is basically the middle of nowhere. The Circumference event still happens, either on the 30th or sometime between the 14th and the 30th.

Reading into the specifics. Not necessarily about him being in a cryotube but mostly about him being the only one there. And while you are right that the PoA could have just come afterwards the situation originally called for them to leave ASAP after the operation on the station was complete in an effort to continue their mission. But the Reach game dictates with the above assumption that they had time to dilly dally around for a much longer period of time in Orbit without being shot down. Or possibly had enough time to dock their ship on the surface of the planet without being shot down or blown up during a global invasion.

It's an easter egg, it doesn't matter if he's the only one or not, since easter eggs are non-canon and all. Changing the situation and timing of the end sequence of TFoR would be a very minor retcon on par with changing when the Elites first appeared in the war.

It is not just "similar", even from a mechanical standpoint. The only thing "different" is that it has hundreds of variations and add-ons which would be physically impossible to produce in such a short period of time. It doesn't matter if it changes its function, it would be like having 60 different hoods for your car the day after the car was tested for its viability on the road. It doesn't make any sense. Not only that, but just any old armor piece shouldn't work with the armor. It was a self contained system (which is proven in the Reach book as Spartans replaced their armor with armor from other Spartans).

The different armor pieces are completely unconnected to vital functions of the Mjolnir armor. Different shoulder pieces or chest pieces, helmets, or knee guards would not have affect on its functionality. And seeing as the CQB helmet was in use before Reach and the introduction of Mark V you don't know for certain what is new armor and what has been in use with the Mark IV and merely carried over to use in Mark V.

Alright, list a book before Contact Harvest that directly contradicts a previous book. Hell list a game that directly contradicts the books in terms of events, character importance, etc. I doubt you will find anything that fits that criteria more vividly than the Reach game. In fact, not even Contact Harvest screwed with cannon as much as Reach does. The biggest screw-up being the Spartan III's themselves.

I don't know if I'll come up with many, I don't own the books, and I'm not a nitpicker so I've never looked for them, so we'll see what we get.

TFoR, the MAC gun for the Autumn is off line, then in Halo: CE and the Flood it is suddenly online again.

The Elite in the Flood picking up the Magnum and executing the bridge crew of the Autumn except for Keyes. First problem with that is there are other Humans with Keyes when you rescue him in CE, and they are in officer type uniforms, and the bridge crew all left together in the Flood, which would mean that the Flood contradicts CE. And the second problem lies with the Elite using the Magnum, the Covies don't use human weaponry, except for the Brutes, GoO states that Covies died instead of picking up fully loaded human weapons lying right next to them.

That's all I got right now.

Covvies ain't a hive mind.

  • 03.11.2011 9:49 PM PDT

MLG = Man Lacking Girlfriend

lolbloom
lolarmourlock
lolreach

Considering the size of the Halo canon I'm surprised there aren't more.

  • 03.11.2011 9:52 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: OrderedComa

I would assume that the guy commander didn't know about it (least likely option), he thought it had been taken out by his Zealot team , or that it would be taken offline by all the Phantoms. And the Cruiser didn't die anyway, you just brought it's energy projector offline, the Mass Driver lacks the power to do any sort of overly significant damage to a ship of that size.

The cruiser crashed to the ground...
Point it out to me where I can see the Cruiser crashed, I'm not doubting you or anything, I just want to see for myself, because I've never seen it crash or anything, it looked to me from the cutscene that it was limping off with its tail between its legs like the Corvette you damage on Exodus.


Watch the cutscene. You can see the bloody thing actually hit the ground in the background as the Autumn takes off.

  • 03.12.2011 12:27 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
There is no indication at all that it was in drydock the entire game. When Dot says her lines about the Autumn being in Aszod, it is in the later morning of the 30th, after the Autumn would have extracted Blue Team, or the events occurring on the 30th are pushed back a bit and then it would be on the surface earlier, but it would be some time between 14th and the 30th.

Still, Reach fell in a day not weeks and it destroys the significance and even the logic of many of the vents in the original version. Operation Red Flag should have been scrapped days before the PoA escaped Reach to try and complete that mission. The Spartan II's wouldn't have had to endure such a risky drop and would probably have not all died seeing as in the game's version it was far more gradual than overwhelming. This also means that Linda and James wouldn't have died becuase with that amount of time the Circumferance wouldn't have had any nav data left in it due to a hasty evacuation. So many key events in the novel are destroyed by just the timeline change, let alone character location changes.


Did you miss that it wasn't Cortana that you deliver in Reach? It's a fragment, meaning, not all of Cortana, a small piece. The "real" Cortana is already on the Autumn.

And where was the Autumn? THE SURFACE! AKA Cortana is on the surface, in the PoA which is on the surface.


What exactly are you trying to say here, you're not making much sense, or maybe my brain isn't making sense of it 'cause I'm tired, oh well. Are you talking about Tom and Lucy, or Kurt and Mendez? And how on earth does Mendez and Kurt ruin anybody being "special" and make them pointless?
I do get what you mean about saying it's a cop out though, it's not. That ranking of canon has been in place well before Halo: Reach was ever heard about by the fans, it's been around at least as long as Contact Harvest.

Yes, Tom and Lucy. Their role in the story is meaningless without all Spartan III's dying. Hell, they'd probably be a part of Noble if such a thing as taking some Spartan III's and forming a specialized team was happening. They had premier combat experience. Having such a thing happen means their importance as the only experienced Spartan III's is moot and their place in the training of the next gen Gamma Company would be insignificant since any old Spartan III could have been there.

She always had an idea of what to expect from the SIIIs once she knew about them, they were Spartan IIIs after all. And just because one has seen something and knows something of its capabilities does not mean they know a great deal about it. Halsey knew next to nothing about the SIIIs except what she was able to glean from the files and what she knew of Noble Team.
Which was a lot, seeing as she was able to get names and even their roles within the team (them being Spartan III's would be a cakewalk after all that info).

Bungie has used this policy ever since they first announced how canon was ranked. And Bungie can do whatever the hell they want, or rather 343 now, it's their story, you may not like what they do, but there is nothing you can do about it, and -blam!-ing about it won't change anything. I'm just about as educated in the Halo lore as the prominent members of the Universe forum, and I relish any new information, if it's something I enjoy, like Halo, more stuff to learn is always a good thing for me. And it's not Bungie/343's policy to just throw stuff out willy-nilly unless there is a need to, frankly I thought TFoR had a lot of stuff that did not make sense and really mesh with other aspects of canon, nothing has really been thrown out. Everything still works, you just have to use your common sense and find the ways, or wait until Bungie/343 releases more info to tie TFoR and Reach together.
I see you're fine with a company butchering their own story just because "they can". You may think it is up to us to jurry rig a way to make it all work but we wouldn't have to do so if the storyline hadn't been modified (in this case ignored) so heavily. Why is it the job of the fans to clean up the dev's mess and deal with their sloppy work? In fact, it isn't our job but a choice. And usually when something like this happens many fans choose to give up since it will most likely happen again.

The UNSC had just about the same odds as they always did when engaging the Covies in a space battle at Reach, plus the 20 SMACs, that is enough to make the battle last a good god damned longer than two hours. Having the orbital defenses completely smashed in about two hours is having the Covenant forces being portrayed as vastly over-powered and the UNSC force being portrayed as vastly underpowered. This would make the book contradict itself and other Halo media, as the odds were the exact same as at other battles until the arrival of the second Covenant fleet.
Naval battles don't last weeks, especially with nothing to hide behind. They last hours or maybe a day or two. The orbital defense wasn't "smashed" it was more so "turned off". Very different and far within the realm of possibility.

And yes, the UNSC is completely outclassed in space by the Covenant. The technological gap is too great. This has been illustrated a great many times in the Halo novels.

Do you mean the Super Carrier? Easy, there are only 20, or 25 can't remember which it is, SMACs, and they are all close to the same area, they're spread out around the planet like at Earth. It would be very easy for a ship to slip past the SMACs. We don't know where exactly the Vierry Territory is in relation to the SMACs, and Vierry is basically the middle of nowhere. The Circumference event still happens, either on the 30th or sometime between the 14th and the 30th.
Slipping past requires a lack of detection. If you understand how technology works that means many things beyond just seeing them. They would essentially have to slipspace a great distance away to avoid the rupture alerting the entire planet, then somehow jam every ship, station and sensor array on the ground to avoid technical detection as well as slip past all of the above visually on a planet that has more military presence than any in the galaxy at the time and is the headquarters for humanity's intelligence office.

The covenant didn't do that kind of thing, in fact they NEVER did that kind of thing books or games. They had amazing tech but their biggest flaw was their inability to use it effectively.


It's an easter egg, it doesn't matter if he's the only one or not, since easter eggs are non-canon and all. Changing the situation and timing of the end sequence of TFoR would be a very minor retcon on par with changing when the Elites first appeared in the war.

FYI, that isn't minor. That changes an entire event, a KEY event. As does the changing of when Brutes were discovered.

The different armor pieces are completely unconnected to vital functions of the Mjolnir armor. Different shoulder pieces or chest pieces, helmets, or knee guards would not have affect on its functionality. And seeing as the CQB helmet was in use before Reach and the introduction of Mark V you don't know for certain what is new armor and what has been in use with the Mark IV and merely carried over to use in Mark V.
Yet they still have to be able to function with it, meaning they were MADE FOR THE ARMOR. Not any old piece of metal can run a shield emitter through it or utilize the steel-like fabric that was revolutionary in the MJOLNIR suit.


TFoR, the MAC gun for the Autumn is off line, then in Halo: CE and the Flood it is suddenly online again.

Slip-space isn't instant, they could have fixed the gun in transit to Halo.


The Elite in the Flood picking up the Magnum and executing the bridge crew of the Autumn except for Keyes. First problem with that is there are other Humans with Keyes when you rescue him in CE, and they are in officer type uniforms, and the bridge crew all left together in the Flood, which would mean that the Flood contradicts CE.

A ship has more officers than just it's bridge crew. Those other officers could have come from anywhere.


And the second problem lies with the Elite using the Magnum, the Covies don't use human weaponry, except for the Brutes, GoO states that Covies died instead of picking up fully loaded human weapons lying right next to them.

If you recall, he curses the weapon after using it. I think he lacked a weapon at the time and he was no normal Elite.

  • 03.12.2011 1:45 AM PDT

interesting

  • 03.12.2011 5:02 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: xl Jeebus lx
Considering the size of the Halo canon I'm surprised there aren't more.
The thought had crossed my mind so I started going through all the media.
Just don't take Halo Legends too seriously. (Except for "Odd One Out", that one obviously takes place right after Halo 3)

  • 03.12.2011 5:56 AM PDT

It's just kind of annoying when things go uncanon and the creators don't seem to care that much. I mean, don't get me wrong, the game was AMAZING. But that said, it isn't right to the fans and writers of old canon material for Bungie to just go and change up important facts to the Halo universe. What about Eric Nylund's work on TFoR? It's almost like they could have just asked him for ideas to put in the game, rather than write an entire novel that they would eventually throw in the garbage. I compare it to the new Star Wars CLone Wars series. Remember how Anakin was whining about how he could't be a Master in EpIII? Why on Earth does he have an apprentice in the Clone series?! That makes him a Master! Super Contradiction! Now when we are told that some things in TFoR novel are untrue because some new storyline that not many diehard fans are used is the new canon, it becomes enough to annoy me, as well as other fans. You tell people one thing, then go and change it and expect people to be happy with it? Sad face... :(

  • 03.12.2011 11:01 PM PDT

GROSSMAN: Do you think of the Culture as a utopia? Would you live in it, if you could?

BANKS: Good grief yes, to both! What's not to like? ...Well, unless you're actually a fascist or a power junkie or sincerely believe that money rather than happiness is what really matters in life. And even people with those bizarre beliefs are catered for in the Culture, albeit in extreme-immersion VR environments.

KOTOR

1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

  • 03.13.2011 2:42 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Orphius_Rex
1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

You can see it burning, crashing to the ground.

  • 03.13.2011 3:38 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

You can see it burning, crashing to the ground.


You only see an explosion/fire around the impact point of the mass driver round.

  • 03.13.2011 3:48 PM PDT

I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

Although I cannot address all of your problems. I can answer quite a few. (I will have to post multiple times to fit all of this.
Anyone read The Fall of Reach, and then played the game and just got seriously confused by the fact that:

The Covenant suddenly has new and never before seen weapons and techonologies like teleportation and massive stealth + cloaking fields? A new and what-would-be useless version of a Banshee Banshee's and Seraphs can exit and enter slipspace without any kinds of damages. The whole thing with the Assault Carrier on Reach makes no sense. It would have been destroyed in seconds by Reach's oribtal MAC-guns. The Sangheili's drastic change in style. Random and impossibly-canon UNSC weapons.

The list can go on for ages and ages.


I also personally found this website when googling around on this subject, quite interesting if you ask me: http://www.haloreachisnotcanon.net/

Atlas Tasume 19:34 (GMT +1) 4th March 2011

Teleportation=Yes, they've had it. Cloaking=Of Course! Banshees and Seraphs=Impulse Drive and reinforced structure. And you don't MAC something that is bigger than the nearby cities and probably would crush some major population centers, not to mention the fact that the projectile alone would cause near global extinction. The elites have changed before as well, in Halo Wars and Halo 3, and if anybody has the right to change them it's Bungie. And yes, I have read all at Haloreachisnotcanon.net before and it is pretty clear to me that they are missing the point on A LOT of their arguments. Really, none of the above are any drastic changes. And some are just updates. Tuckerscreator(stalk) 14:10, 4 March 2011 (EST)

Explain the MAC-shot shooting the tiny Covenant Corvette in the Reach campaign.

Teleportation: No. The gravutythrone used Halo's teleportationgrid. Impossible without an Instalation.

Active camoflage of course! But never on that scale! And that does NOT hide thermal, radio and radioactive signals, nor motion or normal radar.

As for the Banshee's and Serahps, see the part of one of the Halo-books where you have the Spartan-team's atempt at launching the Spirit-dropship out from slipspace, and the comments made around it. The game neglected this part.

And of course the elite could change from Halo 2 to 3, before/after the Great Schism. And as for Halo Wars, lack of cooperation between Bungie and Ensamble Studios created their look there.

And to add to the list, the sudden random dissapearance of the SPI armour for Spartan-IIIs and the addition of the randomised Reach armours.

The supposed "testversion" of the Battlerifle seen in Halo 2 and 3, according to Reach it's the DMR. But then why did Sgt. Johnson have a BattleRifle in Contact Harvest? The same issue goes for the Assault Rifle MA5B, and its "supposed" precessor in Reach. The MA5B was used in Halo Wars, Contact Harvest etc, both taking place before Reach.

Please dont jump to conclusions, of course Bungie can change the games. But that breaks the Canon. They are drastic canon-breakers.

Atlas Tasume 20:19 4th March 2011 GMT +1

1) Sword Base was very important, so the UNSC didn't want the information contained within to fall into the hands of the Covenant. They chose to destroy the corvette with a MAC slug fired at low velocity.
2 & 3) Nothing ever said they didn't have that technology. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
4) It's true that Covenant single ships are ordinarily not capable of emerging from slipspace. However, the Covenant are more than capable of reinforcing their vessels to survive the transition from slipspace. *EDIT* I'm with Roberthaha and Vergerot on this one; I don't think the Banshees, Seraphs, and Phantoms were utilizing slipspace at all. The radio operator on Anchor 9 warns about impulse drive signatures being detected seconds before the Seraphs appear. They would not have been able to detect said signatures if the vessels were in slipspace, as they wouldn't have time to retrieve and analyze a slipspace probe like those used by remote sensing outposts. Thus, Occam's Razor would indicate that the craft were using impulse drive rather than slipspace.
5) The aesthetic changes in Halo Wars were to make the Elites more realistic and dangerous-looking, as are the changes in Reach. There was no "lack of cooperation" between Bungie and Ensemble. People say that when they want an excuse to complain about Halo Wars.
6) a) The members of Noble Team were far more important than ordinary SPARTAN-IIIs. They received MJOLNIR so they could perform mission along the lines of those perfomed by the SPARTAN-IIs. b) I assume you're talking about the armor worn by the dead SPARTANs in Lone Wolf. The randomized armor is a very minor and negligible part of the game; it doesn't defy canon in any way.
7) No one ever said the M392 was a "test version" of the BR55. The M392 was the predecessor to the BR55. After the BR55 was introduced, the Army continued to use the M392. Similarly, the MA37 is not a predecessor to the MA5; it's a different weapon in the same series.
Reach doesn't introduce any canon holes. It only expands the canon. In fact, being the latest game in the series, it is the supreme source of canon. If you want to complain about it, take it to a forum. This isn't the place. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 15:13, 4 March 2011 (EST)

If you destroy the phantoms before the seraphs they will leave in the same way they entered so its probably not slipspace.--Roberthaha 15:23, 4 March 2011 (EST)
Let me just say this, now listen clearly: == BUNGIE IS THE CANON. == WHATEVER THEY SAY IS WHAT HAPPENED. BECAUSE THEY ARE THE CANON. SO IF YOU SAY THAT BUNGIE ISN'T CANON THEN WHAT IS?!
Just adding on to the conversation here:
1) Sword Base was compromised, Admiral Whitcomb decided the to hit two birds with one stone (or in this case, with one 3000-ton ferric-tungsten round) by enacting Cole Protocol (NVM, Cole Protocol would have been done long before hand) and taking out the Corvette with one shot.
2) If Regret had access to the Ring's Teleportation Grid, he would have teleported himself halfway across the ring as soon as John broke in. So it is a Forerunner short-range teleportation device.
3) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
4) Impulse Drives are definitely not Slipstream Space drives. They probably just send them REALLY fast.
6) I have my own little theory. I believe that Noble team, along with all the other SPARTAN-IIIs on Reach. Were large Headhunter teams. Which would explain everything. I could actually right a whole post just about that (and I have, took me about half an hour, then my Computer crashed and I was too frustrated after that to type it up again).
7) No, the test version was the one used by Sergeant Johnson. And no-one ever said that the DMR and the BR are related. I believe that they are just different weapons.
8) Bungie can't break the Canon, because it is their canon, so they decide what's done. If you want to believe that, then go ahead. Halo is an imaginary universe, no one can tell you how and how-not to picture your universe. I also have a bunch of imaginations that are nowhere close to canon, and they even contradict some of the most basic facts of the Halo Universe. But the difference between you and me is that I don't post those things on Halopedia. Halopedia is for facts, so you come here and put the Facts; and the facts are that Bungie is always right and old stuff imposes new stuff. So imagine what you want to imagine (in fact I encourage you to, because someone who only believes what Bungie and 343 Industries says and never veers off from the canon is an ass-hat), but don't put it here. It sounds like you would be good for the Halo Fanon Wikia. As it is in between Fan Fiction and Canon. Vegerot (talk) 17:27, 4 March 2011 (EST) (I think we should start putting our signatures before we post, don't you think?!)
I realise most of the points have been addressed, but I thought I'd add my two cents.
This "MAC in orbit" debate seems a relic of the Halo Wars debates, and my answer is the same here as it is there - the force a kinetic projectile imparts is based on its mass and velocity. It's not inconceivable that the UNSC uses lower-velocity shots that impart enough kinetic energy to smash a Covenant corvette, but not enough to crack the planet's crust apart. Using the full force would be a tremendous waste anyway. At the least, they may have orbiting kinetic satellites for the expressed purpose of reactive orbital bombardment. We know that at least frigate-grade MAC weapons in atmosphere is a big deal, from Jorge's reaction, but why would the UNSC use weapons that produce so much collateral damage, when they need pinpoint precision?
We've never seen any conclusive statement that it was only because they were on a Halo. Presumably the Prophets have many ways of protecting themselves - whether they understand the technology fully or not. I understand it to be using slipspace to "shunt" the teleportee to where they need to be, rather than particle disassembly and reassembly ala stereotypical teleportation, and the Covenant have a mastery of slipspace that humanity does not.
We've seen corvettes camouflage. We assumed that was the theoretical limit of size a ship could be and camouflaged. Nothing has said that this was true. It contradicts nothing.
The Banshees and Seraphs aren't entering slipspace, nor are they going faster than light. They're simply accelerating faster than the human eye can follow. I'm sure the UNSC fighters are capable of the same feats - having space fighters at all would be redundant if they couldn't.

  • 03.13.2011 3:57 PM PDT

I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

The Elites were made to look more like the Halo: CE version, which I thought was a great move. The Elite's haven't been the same since they were hunched forward in Halo 2, and the taller profile is visually more intimidating, for me at least. The aesthetic differences in Halo Wars were from reinterpretation - they wanted the Elites to look mean, and they succeeded. I like both looks. In the end, it's interpretation.
Noble is explicitly the exception to the rules. Most S-III's still aren't quite up to S-II standards, even if they're still far superior to regular soldiers/Marines, and are capable of using MJOLNIR. The members of Noble have the same genetic profile as the S-II's, and were therefore reassigned so they wouldn't be wasted on kamikaze missions. Again, no contradiction. As for the armour - what's wrong with customisation? Different armour components have different properties, and even in war a soldier wants to personalise what is his/hers. It happened in Vietnam. I'm sure it probably happens today. If anyone wants to correct me on this, feel free.
Who ever said the M392 and the BR55 were even the same series? The DMR is much earlier, and is being replaced by the BR55. That doesn't make it the "test version", it makes it the BR55's predecessor. And notice that Halo Wars and Contact Harvest were based on a Marine perspective - the Army uses different materiel. The two branches have different requirements, different acquisition methods and aims, so it makes sense that their arsenals differ a little. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
You can't "Break" Canon. You can only add to it. Sometimes you need to modify some bits, clarify others, in the form of retcons, ie the dates of the Fall of Reach. But the only thing that can "break" it would be something major, ie; saying that the Master Chief is a enlisted as a Marine and was made a Spartan later, when we have so many other sources stating otherwise. That's an example of something that completely ignores the canon. Bungie didn't take the Halo Bible and throw it out the window. They looked through it, selected what they wanted to keep, partitioned others that they wanted to modify, and set to work.
I'm sorry, but this just seems like a huge overreaction. I'm not blaming you specifically for it, because its one a lot of fans share. But I think TV Tropes perfectly summarises this kind of thing. -- Specops306 Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek 23:51, 4 March 2011 (EST)
Vegerot (talk) 20:19, 5 March 2011 (EST)While we have pretty much given him a good talking to on the technological portion of this. The big thing that I don't know is the timeline. Like the Pillar of Autumn landing. Or Gamma Station (or wherever they saw the big blob from one of the probes and blew themselves up) knowing about the Covenant yet apparently Noble Team was 1st, and then alerted FLEET COMMAND. Again, I'm not trying to be like Atlas and claim that this isn't canon. I'm just asking.
Essentially, The Fall of Reach claimed that the planet was invaded in one day (a ridiculous proposition when you think of the logistics that would require), and that the rest of the campaign, well into September, was just guerrilla holdouts and desperate breaks through enemy lines. Reach stretches things out a bit, with a small expeditionary taskforce to pave the way arriving in July, skirmishes around their footholds in Viery, and then the arrival of an entire Covenant fleet, which matches with the FoR's events, retconning it so that these are reinforcements rather than the initial invasion. The Spartans, whose viewpoint we're given, don't know that this is a follow-up effort because they weren't told - their preparations for Operation: RED FLAG were too important to distract them with details like the battle for their home, and Halsey needed their minds focussed 100% on the mission. As for the Pillar of Autumn, we know that by the time it's cradled on Reach the Master Chief has already been taken back aboard - the cryotube is either him or, I think more likely, Linda. This is a brief stop, the recover part of Cortana, after which they head off to Alpha Halo.
Does that answer everything? -- Specops306 Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek 05:09, 6 March 2011 (EST)
Vegerot (talk) 12:32, 6 March 2011 (EST): Yeah, the only thing that I don't get now is Cortana. Because I read Dr. Halsey's Journal yet it doesn't make sense. Because if Halsey wanted the PoA to have the full Cortana then they would have had Cortana. If she wanted to keep part of Cortana, then she would have not asked NOBLE to retrieve her. Also, is it right to assume that ONI didn't create the SPARTAN-III variant of MJOLNIR with the Memory-processor superconductor layer, because that was almost half the cost of the armor. Also, Cortana could have just changed herself (as in updating her calculations, like in the Fall of Reach, when she says "in fact, now I have just made it a 98 percent chance") like she did with John-117 to speed SPARTAN-B312's reflexes and provide support in the Battle Field.
Halsey divided Cortana because she needed her to finish archiving the data gathered from the relics under Sword Base. At the same time, Cortana needed to accomodate herself aboard the Pillar of Autumn, a lengthy process. The solution was to split her into two separate halves until Operation: RED FLAG was launched, at which point they would be reunited. The plan needed to be modified, because the unexpected arrival of Covenant reinforcements cut the two halves off from each other, and the results of the Sword Base dig turned out to be more important than anyone could guess, hence the involvement of Noble.
And while I don't think it's explicitly stated, I don't think that Noble's MJOLNIR would need the equipment to support a Smart AI, otherwise Six would have uploaded Cortana to his suit rather than carry her in a rather fragile-looking container. It makes sense - that's what much of the cost and effort go into, so removing it would make sense from an economic point of view. Dot is a more primitive construct, and I don't know if she's even carried in combat anyway - I got the impression that she was stored elsewhere, perhaps on the Pelican, and communicating at range. Having every Spartan equipped with an AI would have been unrealistic - I think the plan was always that only John would carry Cortana. -- Specops306 Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek 23:01, 6 March 2011 (EST)
I got the impression that Dot was a military AI, not assigned to Noble but rather to the UNSC Army. She seems to reflect the mannerisms of a Dumb AI, and has access to be able to contact cameras and military surveillance equipment all over the planet. She may be attached to Reach instead, but one scene with Jorge implies she doesn't understand Hungarian, which could suggest she's assigned to the Army rather than to Reach (or maybe Jorge was just mumbling!) Tuckerscreator(stalk) 19:49, 7 March 2011 (EST)
If only more of you guys were in the Bungie Universe Forum on Bungie.net. Literally 2/3's of the population is the same as the original poster. Missing Mandible 18:57, 10 March 2011 (EST)
What does that mean? Vegerot (talk) 19:15, 10 March 2011 (EST)?!!

Things are very heptic over there. I can think of a few, by name, that claim that Bungie completely ignore the Halo Bible, that Bungie did this as a Middle Finger to Microsoft, that MS forced them to defy canon, that Bungie forced Nylund to "Come up with the excuse that you call Halsey's Journal." The list just goes on. (If you are refering to the Original Poster, it means the guy that started this discussion {The one who posted first}) Missing Mandible 19:22, 10 March 2011 (EST)
So then what do you say? You wanna move this (aka, copy and paste) talk to Bungie.net?Vegerot (talk) 19:53, 10 March 2011 (EST)?!?!

You can try, but many of the points have been said before. Many times, in fact. Yet people still refuse listen.
I have already given up on that community. I used to look up to some of those people, but, nowadays, I no longer give a -blam!- about them. Half the time I just roll my eyes and move on. Missing Mandible 20:06, 10 March 2011 (EST)
goes on Bungie.net Forums* Yikes!!! Just come the -blam!- down with Armor Lock already! You're right. It seems more like a Bungie-hating forum rather than a Bungie Discussion forum! But can you give me the link to a few of the Topics regarding canon. As Bungie doesn't have a search feature that I know of. Vegerot (talk) 20:38, 10 March 2011 (EST)!!
You need to go to the Bungie Universe Forum, not Halo Reach's Forum. Missing Mandible 21:02, 10 March 2011 (EST)

  • 03.13.2011 3:58 PM PDT

I don't like cocaine, I just like the way it smells.

Got a problem with what I just said? Complain here, http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Halo:_Reach !

  • 03.13.2011 3:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Vegerot
Got a problem with what I just said? Complain here, http://www.halopedian.com/Talk:Halo:_Reach !
I couldn't tell where what you were saying and who you were trying to quote without the quoteboxes began. Therefore I didn't read your incomprehensible wall of text.

  • 03.13.2011 7:27 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

You can see it burning, crashing to the ground.


You only see an explosion/fire around the impact point of the mass driver round.


It still hits dirt though right after being hit. This can be seen happening in the background in all of the shots focusing on the Autumn lifting off.

Now whether or not it can be repaired and become space worthy again is up for grabs and in all likely hood it could be since it crashed flat on the ground relatively intact.

Either way, point is that the mass driver round sufficiently damaged the cruiser enough to make it crash in the first place though.

  • 03.13.2011 7:33 PM PDT

"Concise and devoid of elegance...what I have come to expect from human communication"-Endless Summer

If Bungie changed the dates you wouldn't have any problems goddamn, quit your whining

  • 03.13.2011 8:30 PM PDT

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Orphius_Rex
1. Paragraphs are your friends.

2. You did not need to be a master to have a Padawan, being a Jedi Knight would suffice.

3. Dicking around with established canon is bad, and we "die hard" fans hate it, but there are people who think it all fits perfectly, though most of their reasoning is handwavium.

4. The cruiser may or may not of crashed, though I personally think it unfeasible that it would have crashed due to it's energy projector being shot... It's engines maybe, but not the energy projector, unless the powerplant is directly above it.

You can see it burning, crashing to the ground.


You only see an explosion/fire around the impact point of the mass driver round.


It still hits dirt though right after being hit. This can be seen happening in the background in all of the shots focusing on the Autumn lifting off.

Now whether or not it can be repaired and become space worthy again is up for grabs and in all likely hood it could be since it crashed flat on the ground relatively intact.

Either way, point is that the mass driver round sufficiently damaged the cruiser enough to make it crash in the first place though.
I just watched the ending cutscene, and you barely see the cruiser go below the cliff edge. So apparently damaging its energy projector is enough to ground it.

That makes no sense. Covenant ships can have holes in them from MAC rounds, and keep fighting, yet disabling one energy projector does enough damage to ground it? Makes no sense.

  • 03.13.2011 8:46 PM PDT